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Incredible New Documentary: "Quantum Communication"

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posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by sirnex
Message felt by what?


Exactly.


Hypocrite. I wonder if you can discern *why*.




posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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I must say, that movie was great. I rather enjoy watching documentaries of that nature. Thanks for sharing.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by DarkSecret
 


I think what you meant was,

"Oh, great! A bunch of stuff I don't already agree with. I don't share views with this documentary, and I don't particularly care to, it's too mushy and empowering for my bad ass, so I'm just going to trash talk it now. Everyone who believes there is anything to this documentary is stupid and I laugh at you. You are all still stuck here on Earth so I am better than you all."

I think that's a pretty accurate translation, but then again, I was just reading between the lines.


well let's put it this way. if i get shot in the head or crushed by a trailer on the freeway i'll die and there's not a thing i can do about it. no human would actually. this documentary would not prevent my death or any other's. if it's not a practical way to achieve immortality or at least invulnerability to harm then it's just a bunch of junk just like any religion.

on the other hand quantum physics gave you the dual core processor that runs your computer, LCD, plasma screens and even parts of your microwave oven.

so what's the practical benefit of this knowledge imparted in this or any other new-age documentary? if you can teach me how to fly (not by jumping off a building) or breathe under water or something similarly out of the ordinary which can't be done by regular humans then i can give you and the entire esoteric movement credit.

it's not trash talk it's just asking for proof before accepting something blindly. or denying ignorance imposed onto humans by (pseudo)religious movements such as this one, as this site very much likes to do.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by DarkSecret
so what's the practical benefit of this knowledge imparted in this or any other new-age documentary? if you can teach me how to fly (not by jumping off a building) or breathe under water or something similarly out of the ordinary which can't be done by regular humans then i can give you and the entire esoteric movement credit.


So in other words unless philosophy and spirituality can teach you to magically take off flying, you don't care what it has to tell you. Alright, you should never have watched that documentary then. I assume you don't like watching fictional movies either, feel no emotions and are more or less a robot going through the motions of being alive and wondering what half of everything even exists for.

Would you like me to link you to a video lecture on electronics engineering instead, so you can make up all the time you lost? Or maybe a video of some advanced mathematics as a token of how sorry I feel for you? What satisfies such a mind that only values technical data? Why would you even socialize with people on an internet forum?

[edit on 22-12-2009 by bsbray11]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by DarkSecret
so what's the practical benefit of this knowledge imparted in this or any other new-age documentary? if you can teach me how to fly (not by jumping off a building) or breathe under water or something similarly out of the ordinary which can't be done by regular humans then i can give you and the entire esoteric movement credit.


So in other words unless philosophy and spirituality can teach you to magically take off flying, you don't care what it has to tell you. Alright, you should never have watched that documentary then. I assume you don't like watching fictional movies either, feel no emotions and are more or less a robot going through the motions of being alive and wondering what half of everything even exists for.

Would you like me to link you to a video lecture on electronics engineering instead, so you can make up all the time you lost? Or maybe a video of some advanced mathematics as a token of how sorry I feel for you? What satisfies such a mind that only values technical data? Why would you even socialize with people on an internet forum?


but that's exactly the point - this video is not about philosophy or spirituality. this has nothing to do with that. it's pure rubbish presented as "scientific" backed by "facts" which are totally made up with science-sounding blabber!

in other words it uses science to bash science and prove that science is wrong
so while science gives you the fiber optics that allows us to communicate or the space telescopes and what not, the ideas in this mockumentary are simply steering people the wrong way. this mockumentary pretends to be a practical how-to guide that if followed correctly will lead you to (insert higher dimensional achievement here). in fact it delays any spiritual development of anybody who's looking for enlightenment.

if you were a true believer in spirituality you wouldn't bother defending it, but that's just my opinion.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by DarkSecret
but that's exactly the point - this video is not about philosophy or spirituality.


What, by your definition, is philosophy?


it's pure rubbish presented as "scientific" backed by "facts" which are totally made up with science-sounding blabber!


Principles like entanglement are definitely scientifically valid, as they have been established in laboratories. These are experiments that defy Einstein's assertion that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. There is no longer debating that. Information has been measured, by scientists, in laboratories, to travel ahead of matter by some unknown means at hundreds or thousands of times the speed of light as a lower bounds.


A 2008 quantum physics experiment performed in Geneva, Switzerland has determined that the "speed" of the quantum non-local connection (what Einstein called spooky action at a distance) has a minimum lower bound of 10,000 times the speed of light. [13] However, modern quantum physics cannot expect to determine the maximum given that we do not know the sufficient causal condition of the system we are proposing.


en.wikipedia.org...

arxiv.org...


These are the kinds of principles this documentary and others like it are based on.

It is NOT pseudo-science.

What it IS, is little-understood. By laymen. And I take it -- you are a layman, too?

Notice that information is not physically traveling faster than light. Which is to say, it is not traveling faster than light through 3 or 4 dimensions as far as anyone can discern. The information exchange is, like Einstein said, "spooky" in the sense that it can't be physically explained. Non-local information transfer is happening.

That means you do not have to be somewhere, in order to receive information about it. Nor does a particle transfer even have to take place. Yet there is instantaneous information transfer.


And this is just ONE of the principles that the information in the documentary is based on. Again, it is little understood, but those calling it pseudo-science and trash and rubbish are only demonstrating their own ignorance.

The experiment I just referenced was conducted last year, 2008. That means unless you are keeping up with this stuff in real time, you can be expect to be amongst the ignorant when you post your opinions here, as this is the frontier. This is cutting edge research, and it goes hand-in-hand with ancient traditions/spiritualities/philosophies from which I already understood these ideas before science even approached them, as it has lately done. Why don't people such as yourself READ what the ancients wrote about the universe? You would realize how nonsense a lot of modern ideas and habits actually are.

It goes without saying that the human brain is also located within the quantum field. Meaning it exists on a quantum level, just like all the rest of existence according to every single quantum theory. Meaning all the electrons and electrical activity in your brain is a direct determination of all the collapsed possibilities and etc. of the constant and instant information transfers on the quantum level. That is empowering information, and yes, it is based on demonstrable facts. And here you come to poo-poo on it because you're ignorantly informed and for no better reason, except maybe you don't like seeing people react positively to something you don't agree with or understand, and want them to also reflect your own negative state of mind.



in other words it uses science to bash science and prove that science is wrong


Those are your own words and they don't even make sense. If you are on a truly enlightening spiritual path, and a truly enlightening scientific path, guess what? They will not contradict each other. This is what the best scientists and mystics both understand, that we are describing THE SAME universe. So if they both got anything right, we SHOULD see this over-lapping and cross-fertilization of ideas and cultures.


this mockumentary pretends to be a practical how-to guide that if followed correctly will lead you to (insert higher dimensional achievement here).


You really don't even understand what "higher dimension" means. It isn't a different place than this, and it doesn't mean you can fly, and it doesn't mean you disappear into nothingness. You are full of your own mis-conceived nonsense when it comes to what these people are saying. You are putting words in their mouths.


in fact it delays any spiritual development of anybody who's looking for enlightenment.


What spiritual lineage is it that you follow exactly?

[edit on 22-12-2009 by bsbray11]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11


it's pure rubbish presented as "scientific" backed by "facts" which are totally made up with science-sounding blabber!


Principles like entanglement are definitely scientifically valid, as they have been established in laboratories. These are experiments that defy Einstein's assertion that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. There is no longer debating that. Information has been measured, by scientists, in laboratories, to travel ahead of matter by some unknown means at hundreds or thousands of times the speed of light as a lower bounds.

[...]

And this is just ONE of the principles that the information in the documentary is based on. Again, it is little understood, but those calling it pseudo-science and trash and rubbish are only demonstrating their own ignorance.


this mockumentary pretends to be a practical how-to guide that if followed correctly will lead you to (insert higher dimensional achievement here).


You really don't even understand what "higher dimension" means. It isn't a different place than this, and it doesn't mean you can fly, and it doesn't mean you disappear into nothingness. You are full of your own mis-conceived nonsense when it comes to what these people are saying. You are putting words in their mouths.


once again you prove my point: using valid science to introduce something, then going completely awry into pseudo-science and applying quantum-anything to something the size of a human (or a brain).

so let's assume i'm an ignorant who can't see the truth of the light that is just out there in front of me. you're not helping by directly slamming me instead of argumenting against my point of view.

even a monkey or a child can use a microwave or a tv or a computer. these are devices derived from science, that can always reproduce the same results given the same conditions. can you do the same thing with all this knowledge that you somehow access? if the things (that you say i don't understand) really exist, then they have to obey some laws and thus should always yield the same results in experiments.

so why are you so afraid to point out proven reproducible "spiritual" experiments (other than my "ridiculous" suggestions of flying or breathing under water) that any child or member of the human species can conduct with the same identical results? i mean magnets always point to the magnetic north when suspended by a rope right? spiritual how-to teachings such as this mockumentary should surely have tangible proof that they work - which would automatically bring in more followers. right?


or maybe are these followers aware of the painful truth we all know - we're all trapped here and there's nothing special about our death or consciousness or lives - so some of us are trying to imagine to be on a higher plane of existence compared to the others?

nah that can't be it. it's just me, too ignorant to see the light.

[edit on 23-12-2009 by DarkSecret]



posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by DarkSecret
once again you prove my point: using valid science to introduce something, then going completely awry into pseudo-science and applying quantum-anything to something the size of a human (or a brain).


And once again you demonstrate you have not kept up with the most recent studies.

I just recently read a book called "The Quantum Brain: The Search for Freedom and the Next Generation of Man," and that book demonstrates (with plenty of sources to real research) that the pathways individual neurons "choose" to take in the over-all network of neuron-firing when you think, is determined by quantum states the determine the EM fields that bias the dendrites. Do you understand that? Quantum state --> local EM state of the dendrite --> whether or not the neuron's signal fires out of a certain dendrite or not. That dendrite in turn making up only one of an individual neuron's many dendrites, and of course there being many neurons on top of that, and many, many neurons firing for every single thought you think. So the link IS there and it IS precisely where it logically WOULD be if quantum phenomena actually had an effect. What a shocker. Though this is ALSO a recent scientific development.

So go ahead and make up your mind on scientific research that is on-going, like you are such a genius that you can tell the future, too. I suppose you would have told me in Maxwell's times that electricity has nothing to do with the brain, except back then you would have had more of an excuse for your ignorance as insufficient research had been done into bio-electrical features.


even a monkey or a child can use a microwave or a tv or a computer. these are devices derived from science, that can always reproduce the same results given the same conditions. can you do the same thing with all this knowledge that you somehow access? if the things that you say i don't understand really exist, then they have to obey some laws and thus should always yield the same results in experiments.


Again with the microwave. You know microwaves fry the hell out of certain molecules but don't even affect others, right? And that the heat has to dissipate from the areas affected by the microwave radiation into the cooler areas of your food that are not affected in order for all of the food to be heated? If not then take some time to do the research, and look it up, because I'm an electronics engineering major and I happen to know that this is how the microwave works.

Now I will tell you something else that is known about microwaves. In some cases they are known to heat certain areas of your food to such a state, before dissipating into the rest of the food, that it actually causes chemical reactions between the substances in your food, and completely new molecules are formed in your food that are often carcinogenic. So using a microwave to heat up your food, not only changes the taste, it also increases your risk of cancer. I don't personally even use the microwave except to very rarely heat up water since water is molecularly homogeneous. Also microwaves produce relatively powerful EM fields compared to other appliances, and artifical EM fields themselves are increasingly linked to cancer, just like cell phones' EM fields, as they harphazardly bias ion-dependent protein formations in your cells.

Technology may have led to the creation of the microwave, but it was knowledge that led to technology in the first place. And knowledge itself is indisputably the ruler of all technology. The knowledge has to exist first, THEN practical applications. And even with technology, stupid masses of people who don't know how it works will abuse and misuse it. They were actually banned in Russia/Soviet Union for a period of time.



so why are you so afraid to point out proven reproducible "spiritual" experiments (other than my "ridiculous" suggestions of flying or breathing under water) that any child or member of the human species can conduct with the same identical results?


If you watched the documentary, Dr. William Tiller and a number of others have been doing such experiments that demonstrate the existence of energies that have yet to be quantified or explained by conventional models. These are people with tenure, with access to labs, with the funding, and they are getting results, and this is new information. What I wonder is what in the hell has crawled up your ass that doesn't want you to even consider that this new research might be right? Is it the same thing that crawled up all those peoples' asses who argued with Copernicus until he died that the Sun revolves around the Earth?


i mean magnets always point to the magnetic north when suspended by a rope right? spiritual how-to teachings such as this mockumentary should surely have tangible proof that they work - which would automatically bring in more followers. right?


And I suppose I would be out of line for saying you haven't even been keeping up with such scientific research at all, and are making such claims totally ignorantly?


or maybe are these followers aware of the painful truth we all know - we're all trapped here and there's nothing special about our death or conscience or lives - so some of us are trying to imagine to be on a higher plane of existence compared to the others?


"There's nothing special about my life" is not a scientific statement, it's an attitude you embody. And if that's what you like to think, then by all means man, think it to your grave, I don't care in the slightest.

But if you want to talk about TRUTH, why don't YOU show ME some scientific experiments that validate your pessimistic attitude? It seems to me that on top of being pessimistic, you are also totally ignorant, as the two seem to go hand-in-hand so well anyway. It is a logical fallacy to say that a lack of positive evidence of any given claim or assertion therefore negates its possibility. Or else we might as well stop all scientific research into all fields and assume we already know everything about everything, which is what you seem to imply.

[edit on 23-12-2009 by bsbray11]



posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 06:03 AM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 



I just recently read a book called "The Quantum Brain: The Search for Freedom and the Next Generation of Man," and that book demonstrates (with plenty of sources to real research)


I don't own the book, nor have I heard of it or have read it, but I decided to look it up. I'm personally a little disenchanted with the book's author for a few reasons. The main one that pops out right away was:


He also played a role in the film What the Bleep Do We Know?!.
source

Wonderful, the man already agrees with a biased erroneous and unfounded view of quantum mechanics. It has already been demonstrated that 'What the *@#$ do we know' edited out important information during the scientist interviews. Is he also a member of the Ramtha cult as well?

I am not sure what the book has to say about microtubules, but I am aware that this is a very controversial subject at this time and has *not* been proven by science at any length to have any function in conscious states. Yet, a review of the book appears to assert that this author seems to believe the contrary is true. source - PDF


that the pathways individual neurons "choose" to take in the over-all network of neuron-firing when you think, is determined by quantum states the determine the EM fields that bias the dendrites. Do you understand that? Quantum state --> local EM state of the dendrite --> whether or not the neuron's signal fires out of a certain dendrite or not. That dendrite in turn making up only one of an individual neuron's many dendrites, and of course there being many neurons on top of that, and many, many neurons firing for every single thought you think. So the link IS there and it IS precisely where it logically WOULD be if quantum phenomena actually had an effect. What a shocker. Though this is ALSO a recent scientific development.


Can you cite any additional sources to this information? Are they observing an actual quantum state as defined by QM or are they conjecturing a quantum state simply because a neuron has more than on dendrite and the signal takes just one path? If they are trying to point out a similarity in function, then I fail to see it.


So go ahead and make up your mind on scientific research that is on-going, like you are such a genius that you can tell the future, too. I suppose you would have told me in Maxwell's times that electricity has nothing to do with the brain, except back then you would have had more of an excuse for your ignorance as insufficient research had been done into bio-electrical features.


Your such a hypocrite here. I could equally cite researchers and their evidence in the contrary to your researchers and their evidences. Why must you appeal to authority, it's dumb, especially when the assertion has not ever once been proven true or demonstrated to be true.


If you watched the documentary, Dr. William Tiller and a number of others have been doing such experiments that demonstrate the existence of energies that have yet to be quantified or explained by conventional models. These are people with tenure, with access to labs, with the funding, and they are getting results, and this is new information. What I wonder is what in the hell has crawled up your ass that doesn't want you to even consider that this new research might be right? Is it the same thing that crawled up all those peoples' asses who argued with Copernicus until he died that the Sun revolves around the Earth?


He didn't ask for a straw man appeal to authority answer. Here is what he asked and I am also curious myself.


so why are you so afraid to point out proven reproducible "spiritual" experiments


Are there any experiments that prove these assertions that modern day physics and scientists can account for, verify, explain and prove that they exist?


And I suppose I would be out of line for saying you haven't even been keeping up with such scientific research at all, and are making such claims totally ignorantly?


I can't answer for him, but I try my best. There is no scientific research that actually proves any of the claims I've seen about consciousness or Mind.


"There's nothing special about my life" is not a scientific statement, it's an attitude you embody. And if that's what you like to think, then by all means man, think it to your grave, I don't care in the slightest.


99% of that 'mockumentary' isn't even based on science, yet you've applauded it without merit.


It is a logical fallacy to say that a lack of positive evidence of any given claim or assertion therefore negates its possibility.


The contrary is equally true, it is also a logical fallacy to hold belief as truth simply because there lacks negative evidence against the belief. You two really want to talk about truth? How about acknowledging that all subsequent research is equally true until one is proven more truer than the other. It is better to be a skeptic than a blind follower.

As you said to him:


Is it the same thing that crawled up all those peoples' asses who argued with Copernicus until he died that the Sun revolves around the Earth?


Are you equally one of those fundamentalists who hang onto the churches every word that the Earth is the center of the universe because it makes you feel special and they proved it by exclaiming 'Look! It's not us that moves, it's the sky that moves!'. Hm... Makes one wonder doesn't it?



posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

So go ahead and make up your mind on scientific research that is on-going, like you are such a genius that you can tell the future, too. I suppose you would have told me in Maxwell's times that electricity has nothing to do with the brain, except back then you would have had more of an excuse for your ignorance as insufficient research had been done into bio-electrical features.

[..]

But if you want to talk about TRUTH, why don't YOU show ME some scientific experiments that validate your pessimistic attitude? It seems to me that on top of being pessimistic, you are also totally ignorant, as the two seem to go hand-in-hand so well anyway. It is a logical fallacy to say that a lack of positive evidence of any given claim or assertion therefore negates its possibility. Or else we might as well stop all scientific research into all fields and assume we already know everything about everything, which is what you seem to imply.


ah i love the smell of personal attacks in the morning!
see there's no difference between religious fanatics who blow themselves up and people who present pseudo-scientific facts without any way of redoing those experiments in an independent lab, then accuse those who doubt of ignorance and stupidity and demand evidence that would argument their skeptical point of view. you say you're an engineer - then you should know you need to provide proof of any claims, rather than asking those who doubt of proof that your claim is invalid...

this so-called "scientific community of paranormal research" is just like fox news - they start a rumor in the morning show, then pick it up again in one of their prime time shows, then some blogger picks it up and it makes it to google news, then a news agency bot publishes it and then of course fox news picks it up again from the news agency as legitimate story!
in other words, all these internet sites just link to each other and copy parts of science articles that suit them best, then put them out of context and use it to argument their claims (just like the quantum stuff applied to the brain which may have a spec of real science in it but applied to the wrong scale).

now seriously, if you want proof that there is no soul (and thus all this ascension/afterlife is just wishful thinking), just look at people who had strokes, major brain trauma or other similar brain damage that allowed them to survive but with a completely different personality. as our medicine evolved and was able to resuscitate/keep alive more trauma cases we've got more evidence that the brain is just a bio-chemical-electrical computer. based on that i think it's quite safe to conclude (until further empirical evidence) that if the brain were to die completely, those persons would not exist anymore, here on earth or anywhere else.

but if there is even the slightest chance that you're right and there is an afterlife if only i'd blindly believe in whatever you're preaching and then having to deal with self-righteous narcissistic people telling me how right they were and how wrong i was for the rest of eternity, i'd rather pass



posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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Thanks for that "quantum brain" book synopsis -- yes the dendrite versus neuron distinction for electromagnetic versus electrochemical seems crucial.

reply to post by bsbray11
 



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by DarkSecret
now seriously, if you want proof that there is no soul (and thus all this ascension/afterlife is just wishful thinking), just look at people who had strokes, major brain trauma or other similar brain damage that allowed them to survive but with a completely different personality. as our medicine evolved and was able to resuscitate/keep alive more trauma cases we've got more evidence that the brain is just a bio-chemical-electrical computer. based on that i think it's quite safe to conclude (until further empirical evidence) that if the brain were to die completely, those persons would not exist anymore, here on earth or anywhere else.



You should look into psycholinguistic studies of brain damage patients.

In my experience brain damage studies actually confirm the existence of a soul or mind separate from the physical brain.
The physical brain is made up of physical knowledge; like motor sequences for words that match up with perceived stimuli, but the mind responds with feelings to the brain activity.

Damage to the brain obviously damages some of these physical “tools” in the brain that we have acquired over life, and the person loses the ability to communicate perfectly.

But regardless, the idea that the person’s personality has changed for any other reason besides the fact that their experience of reality has changed so dramatically is an assumption.

The person’s mind is simply not making as clear a connection with the physical brain because some of the messenger is broken.
The reason the damage is so expressed is because the brain is both the synthesizer of the message for the mind and also responds to the “emotions” of the mind. This means that almost all damage to the brain changes perception and expression.

When people have extreme experiences it certainly does “change” the way they seem to the rest of us.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by RestingInPieces
 





I watched it up to around the four minute mark when he started babbling about how consciousness and the "observer" effect things on the quantum level.


babbling???

sorry for being a totaly idiot here

wtf? > QM > sub atomic > atom > you > earth > sun > universe > wtf?

Now in relation to the vid HOW can you think they are talking rubbish???

do you even understand what and "observer" means???????????

If you are NOT here to observe what happens? NOTHING

if you are HERE to observer then what happens? EVERYTHING

sheesh! I mean do you think being here is some how GRANTED to you??

Oh look god made a playground for humans

LOl



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 10:09 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


ahh NOW I UNDERSTAND!!!




When someone says that a table is a chair and you explain to them that it is not a chair, do you expect them to get their panties in a bunch or do you expect them to listen to reason rather than idiocy?


You see Now i understand your dogmatic aproch other than being nasty to people...


When someone says a table is a chair.. they are in fact CORRECT. why? because both chair and table are made from matter.. Not like you would go around calling everything everthing as that would become confusing would it not?

A chair is a description of an object that is on a scale that you can call it a chair..

If you was the size of a ATOM could you tell the difference between chair and table?

NO

Grow up.




I feel the need to correct where correction is needed as I would rather see a belief based around honesty rather than a belief based around lies someone told you.


yes "told you" like earth being round.. or that the earth is not the center of the known universe?

dude you really do have a hard time being open minded..

Tell me your views on life.. how we got here and what is the reason for it, or it you cant and just love to bash people ?

because from were im sitting and after reading many many of your posts...

You are sir A TROLL

[edit on 28-12-2009 by 13579]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 08:35 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 09:00 PM
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GENTLE REMINDER:

Please note the topic of this thread:
Incredible New Documentary: "Quantum Communication"


It is advisable to discuss the subject and not each other.





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