Incredible New Documentary: "Quantum Communication"

reply to post by nunya13

There may not be evidence to back it all up but if we assume it's true, it could explain a lot of things that we humans question and wonder about all the time.

That can possibly be one of the most hurtful things you can do to your intellect. Never assume something is true, ever.

I have many problems with different theories simply because the foundations of those theories rest upon assumptions. If something isn't known to be absolutely true, then there is no reason to uphold a belief in it being absolutely true.

reply to post by sirnex
Hi sirnex, I love your signature quote as I was just talking about it there that ATS has become full of mindless, arrogant contributors who flame threads with no constructive criticism or evidence which makes you not want to read that thread as it pushes out negative vibes as you read tit for tat replies that are meaningless to the thread involved.....

I stopped after Part 3. There is little no scientific explanation in this video. This is what I do not like. The fact of the matter is, many entities take quantum physics and twist it into a spiritual phenomenon. Trying to turn it into a religious thing - The only credible part of the first three videos was the wave function collapse equation. Sorry, not enough data here.

But even so, wave function collapse is HIGHLY debatable. I personally have my own theories on it.
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by nunya13

 

There may not be evidence to back it all up but if we assume it's true, it could explain a lot of things that we humans question and wonder about all the time.

That can possibly be one of the most hurtful things you can do to your intellect. Never assume something is true, ever.

I have many problems with different theories simply because the foundations of those theories rest upon assumptions. If something isn't known to be absolutely true, then there is no reason to uphold a belief in it being absolutely true.

Assuming and believing are two different things. You can make an assumption about something and not believe it to be so. Some people do this just to carry on a conversation or to discuss the implications of what it would mean to be true.

It's also entirely possible to just not have a clue about what you think either way. In that case, one would have to assume one way or another just to join in the conversation, otherwise, there's no point in being part of it, unless you just want to sit back and listen to it.

For instance, I believe in life after death, but I'm fully aware that I could be wrong. This doesn't hurt my intellect. It doesn't make me stupid somehow. Is someone who doesn't believe in life after death smarter than me?

What hurts ones intellect is to always think you have all the facts. That you're always the one who is right without even considering the possibility that you could be wrong.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by nunya13]

Originally posted by Paradox.
I stopped after Part 3. There is little no scientific explanation in this video. This is what I do not like. The fact of the matter is, many entities take quantum physics and twist it into a spiritual phenomenon. Trying to turn it into a religious thing - The only credible part of the first three videos was the wave function collapse equation. Sorry, not enough data here.

The thing is, a lot of us have already had these realizations. Most everything they said in this documentary, I had already gathered from sources of information that were not technical sciences. After all, science is not the only source of information that is allowed to make sense.

Seeing something like this only gives more technical details as to how many ancient philosophies are valid. It was said way before the birth of particle physics that all of creation was vibration, by the Hindus (and in the Western Hermetica, which gives 7 hermetic laws, of which vibration is one such universal law -- see here), and way before anyone even conceived of a "unified field theory" that Buddhists said the universe is only made of 1 thing, or nothing at all, depending only on one's perspective. And in fact many cultures said many things to this effect, just in a way unique to their specific culture.

Having said that, there is nothing religious about this information. Spiritual, sure, but not religious. It does not fit easily inside any orthodox form of any particular religion. And saying ancient philosophies/spiritualities had no useful knowledge of anything is just plain arrogant.




Here is something to consider for all of those who are afraid of spirituality.

This is the section on vibration from the Kybalion page, linked above. See if it does not make any sense to you, laboratory experiments or not:

This Principle embodies the truth that "everything is in motion"; "everything vibrates"; "nothing is at rest"; facts which Modern Science endorses, and which each new scientific discovery tends to verify. And yet this Hermetic Principle was enunciated thousands of years ago, by the Masters of Ancient Egypt. This Principle explains that the differences between different manifestations of Matter, Energy, Mind, and even Spirit, result largely from varying rates of Vibration. From THE ALL, which is Pure Spirit, down to the grossest form of Matter, all is in vibration — the higher the vibration, the higher the position in the scale. The vibration of Spirit is at such an infinite rate of intensity and rapidity that it is practically at rest — just as a rapidly moving wheel seems to be motionless. And at the other end of the scale, there are gross forms of matter whose vibrations are so low as to seem at rest. Between these poles, there are millions upon millions of varying degrees of vibration. From corpuscle and electron, atom and molecule, to worlds and universes, everything is in vibratory motion. This is also true on the planes of energy and force (which are but varying degrees of vibration); and also on the mental planes (whose states depend upon vibrations); and even on to the spiritual planes. An understanding of this Principle, with the appropriate formulas, enables Hermetic students to control their own mental vibrations as well as those of others. The Masters also apply this Principle to the conquering of Natural phenomena, in various ways. "He who understands the Principle of Vibration, has grasped the sceptre of Power," says one of the old writers.

www.kybalion.org...

[edit on 20-12-2009 by bsbray11]

reply to post by Paradox.

There is little no scientific explanation in this video. This is what I do not like. The fact of the matter is, many entities take quantum physics and twist it into a spiritual phenomenon. Trying to turn it into a religious thing

I hope you don't mind me analyzing this statement a little

I have strong spiritual beliefs as do many. Although I love much about the story of Christianity, my spiritualist beliefs have nothing whatsoever to do with religion. These two doctrines need to be separated for you to grasp the concept.

I think the following statement clarifies the issue.

All religions have a spiritualistic component but not all spiritualist have religious beliefs.

Science is pretty much in the dark with it's understanding of consciousness. In other words, it cannot explain you or I. Spiritualism does try to explain 'what' and 'why' we are.

It is becoming increasingly clear to spiritualist that the science behind what we feel as a "knowing" lies within the realms of quantum mechanics. If you could separate spiritualism from religion perhaps you could see this distinction.

I think it's time for both of you to do alot more research into quantum mechanics/physics. How quickly were you both to disinfo my post? It seems you are both used to taking a defensive stance on these matters. So used to a defensive stance, that the first reply has accused me (At the end of the post) with ignorance on which a certain topic I have never debated. I would like to discredit the video first and foremost with regards to the "pendant." Why did the experiments involved with the Voltmeter have to be conducted with the participant holding the pendant in both right and left hands directly in contact with the Voltmeter. If it held such a power could it not be placed anywhere on the body to produce a charge? Were are observing vibrational energies in tune with human bio-frequencies are we not?

at the end of the day, ancient people had huge spiritual knowledge and were wiser than we will ever be.

were only beginning to discover what they have been trying to tell us.

Science needs to merge more with the spiritual side to save humanity IMHO.

reply to post by Paradox.


The only way you can debunk that experiment is by trying to duplicate it.
Looking at a video of the experiment and saying that it doesn't work because they were holding it in their hands is not enough, imo.

Like I said, I would be interesting in conducting the experiment myself.

Originally posted by Paradox.
I think it's time for both of you to do alot more research into quantum mechanics/physics.

Or maybe for you to do a little soul-searching in some of the ancient philosophies I just mentioned.

I just told you I didn't personally come to all of this from particle physics. I came to these realizations from ancient knowledge.

I am not insulting you. I have myself researched into such topics but was unable to find any physical evidence unearthed of ancient advanced technologies other than writings. I know it is documented, and it can be determined in many different ways - but I have yet to see a result of their knowledge on a high scale found, such as aeronautical technology.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by Paradox.]

lol. internet forums, and this place never change. i love people argue on both sides without either really having much to say but quoting each other, and just flat out poking at each other. with usually the skeptics coming off snooty and arrogant, and the opposing believers usually more passive and open, but still not having much to say in their own defense. understandably though both sides feel they are already tired of debating the topic at hand, so they say little of anything worth a crap, and the usual, send me a u2 and we can go from there. if people were sharp enough on either side, they would be able to instantly respond. but the debate is endless, so why waste your time. people wondering the credentials of the speakers, but what are the credentials of anyone that has posted in disagreement. i mean, you kinda did come in here and pick a fight.

im sure the videos are good, but at the end of the day, its just a bunch of theories and stuff, and no real world applications, other then them usually telling me to meditate to "tap" into my abilities. great. i own a couple books from some of the people mentioned in this forum, and they are good stuff, but i dont like when someone tells me i can turn the moon purple in theory, but doesnt tell me how. at least magic, as overly complex as its been made over thousands of years, says hey, this is how we did it, and how you can do it, but they cover their butts with other crap. like, it may take 3 years to manifest, BUT, ITS MAAAAGIC, or no matter how silly this sounds, if you do harm to someone in this universe where right and wrong are completely subjective and really have no meaning outside of personal meaning, you will get back negative vibes 3 fold. yeah,okay. lol. comedy.



[edit on 20-12-2009 by jimmy1200]

reply to post by jimmy1200


The only difference between magic and science is understanding.

reply to post by Paradox.


I'm not talking about looking for their material possessions. I'm talking about the spiritual and philosophical texts they left behind. If all you are concerned with is material objects and material gain, it's little wonder that you don't find any value here. If all you want is material gain, have at it, my friend. You have your whole life to amass as much crap as you can before you die, then you won't have anything.

Maybe the real reason there are so many "skeptics" here, is because underneath their criticisms is faith in the belief that the universe itself is meaningless and dead and dumbly mechanical with no inherent order at all.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by bsbray11]

But it is only in your human nature, to not accept an inconvenient truth as such, if the mechanics of reality function how you decribed.

Remember guys, that the ones of us who are critisizing the linked movie, are not necessarily denying the phenomena itself. I just found some of the claims that were made on the movie exagerrating, obscure and untruthful. Some of us may have actually put critical effort to inquire these things.

Spirituality does not necessarily imply believing, as someone correctly pointed out before. But I see a huge 'stamp of believer' whenever I see people appalauding on the so called 'facts' that are not based on proper examination. It is the classical sign of a believer.

As previous poster said, research these things by yourself and don't just swallow anything spooned on your mouth because you just like the taste of it. You know, many poisons tastes sweet.

But in the end, I respect everyone's right to believe in whatever they want. I am not just jumping in the bandwagon of the appalauders of this particular movie, instead I'll throw few justly critical words towards it.

As sirnex pointed out on this post, the bad flavour from this movie starts from the opening sentence and it keeps getting more strong as it goes on; not because of the topic that is being addressed, but because of the way how the topic is being addressed. All the 'facts' are twisted to fit the agenda, which is basically: "You should believe what the ancient holy texts and religions has always knew; now it is being scientifically prooved", even it is not.

-v

[edit on 21-12-2009 by v01i0]

reply to post by bsbray11


Hi bsbray11,

Your following suggestion, when considering me, is incorrect. While being so, it is also a nice way to label the skeptics as believers:

Originally posted by bsbray11
Maybe the real reason there are so many "skeptics" here, is because underneath their criticisms is faith in the belief that the universe itself is meaningless and dead and dumbly mechanical with no inherent order at all.

But I don't believe it so, I only suspect that it might be a substantial chance. I am open to all options. I am constantly pursuing something, what I consider to be the truth; I can only speak of my own behalf, but so far I have come up with the following observation: truth is the reality, and reality is everything we perceive and everything that happens. Even lies are reality; and people believing in lies are reality. So reality is the truth; the subjective reality that I have is my truth.

I'll just keep my eyes open and tilt my head to all directions

-v

reply to post by JayinAR

I didn't misrepresent anything.

Coming from the man who makes claim to understanding how to apply the words hypocrite and misrepresent.

You misrepresent me openly in this thread by posting an unfounded erroneous claim that I am a hypocrite. You misrepresent me with your four assertions of my character on this very post. Now THAT is a hypocrite in case your wondering! You claim to not be misrepresenting while turning around and choosing freely to misrepresent me.

1) Guy comes in who obviously believes that he has enough knowledge on this subject that he considers the videos laughable even though he hasn't watched them yet.

Simply hogwash and untrue. I have never said I haven't watched them. I have indeed watched them which is the exactly what made me realize just how daunting and enormous of a task it would be to refute. My eyes were bigger than my stomach at the time of writing my initial post.

2) But that's cool because he is going to watch them anyways and then offer a rebuttal. Maybe I'll get to learn something here afterall.

That option is still open to you as I did offer to personally explain and clarify any aspect of the film. All you have to do is ask.

3) Excuses, excuses, excuses. Yet he is still posting that these videos are bunk (has he still not watched them?)

Not excuses, just being realistic, I have three kids, the youngest being two weeks old. My time is simply more important spent with them rather than four days on the internet.

Let's consider an analogous scenario.

You and I are drinking buddies in some far off alternate reality. You have a job where your on call 24/7. You call me up and say "Hey Sirnex, want to go out drinking tonight?!" I get all excited thinking I'm going to go hang out at a bar with my best bud, get a nice buzz going on and go pick up some hotties to bring home for the night. You never show up that night, so I feel pretty blown off here. You call me up the next morning Saying "Hey man, look I'm sorry. Something came up, my work called and I was stuck all night unable to call you. I'm really sorry, maybe some other time."

Do you know what my response would be based off your own attitude and drivel? Yea, it would be pretty harsh, just as harsh at least as the garbage you've been posting.

4) His signature is hilarious considering the fact that he has really done NOTHING in this thread other than to say the content is bogus.

That's not true at all. I've posted on the observer effect and the Fifth Solvay Conference. I simply do not have the time due to outside influences that are beyond my control to argue every single erroneous claim laid out in the film.

So, well done!

No, the 'well done' is all yours to enjoy.

Have you ever seen the movie Idiocracy? It's a really great movie that really shows where human society is headed. People in that movie love to drink Brawno, because it has electrolytes and electrolytes is something your body needs!

Point is, you don't run into a grocery store screaming that whatever brand of cereal you have in your hand is the healthiest cereal ever when the first ingredient is sugar. That's pretty close to this 'mockumentary' as it's opening sequence is founded upon an outright lie, which I did show you.

reply to post by nunya13

Assuming and believing are two different things. You can make an assumption about something and not believe it to be so. Some people do this just to carry on a conversation or to discuss the implications of what it would mean to be true.

No one really seems to be assuming this film to be true for the sake of discussing the implications if it were true. Should we quote the numerous unfounded applauds of how true and correct this 'mockumentary' is?

It's also entirely possible to just not have a clue about what you think either way. In that case, one would have to assume one way or another just to join in the conversation, otherwise, there's no point in being part of it, unless you just want to sit back and listen to it.

Yes, I see your point. Again, this doesn't appear to be how the act of assumption is being applied. Assuming to be true through applauding it as if it were true is a lot different than assuming it to be true for the sake of discussion of if it were true and what it's implications would mean.

For instance, I believe in life after death, but I'm fully aware that I could be wrong. This doesn't hurt my intellect. It doesn't make me stupid somehow. Is someone who doesn't believe in life after death smarter than me?

This isn't really that great of an analogy, and for the record I'm not trying to say your stupid, but that people need to do more fact checking before stupidly applauding bogus material.

What hurts ones intellect is to always think you have all the facts. That you're always the one who is right without even considering the possibility that you could be wrong.

That has to be the best subtlest way I've ever seen someone call me closed minded. I'm impressed, usually people are upfront with an in your face attitude! I never make any claim to have all the facts and I continuously assert that science never has all the facts. I argue against people who claim they have all the facts. I agree with your statement, which is why I urge people to fact check here.

Look, I'm not closed minded to the possibility of mind over matter spiritualist aspect of reality. Yet it would be pretty stupid and ignorant of me to applaud this film when the material is wrong not even a minute into the movie. It's like believing the Indiana Jones movies are actual documentaries. People don't bother to fact check, applaud the movie, their told why they shouldn't applaud it and then I'm the closed minded one. You do know closed minded can be used in the context of applauding bogus material don't you?