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Can ET change our past through time travel?

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posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 01:38 PM
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I was reading an interesting article over on Journal of Frontier Science that says an advanced civilization could change our past by traveling to our future.


Let's say this advanced civilization wanted Barack Obama to be President. The year is 2007 and the month is March. This advanced civilization could travel to the future. They can see that Hillary Clinton will become President because
Obama didn't compete in Iowa. He skipped Iowa and tried to build a firewall in New Hampshire that didn't work and we have our first female President. This advanced civilisation could then travel back to 2007 and they could make sure
that Obama competes in Iowa.

See, they can change our timeline if it hasn't been observed yet.

Let's say that America lost the revolutionary war in the original timeline. This advanced civilization could travel to the future before the war and see that we lost. They could then make sure that America won the war. It would feel like
destiny. Like something was guiding them.

Unfortunately, these things would be hard if not impossible to measure. This is because we would see these things as destiny, deja vu or we were just mistaken. So the next time you say,"I could have sworn I did that", maybe you did.


www.frontierscience.us...

So if you traveled to the future and then changed an event before we observed it, you could change our past. I don't see anything that violates the laws of physics as we know them because causality isn't violated.

I just wanted to get other folks opinion.




posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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See, they can change our timeline if it hasn't been observed yet.


But THEY observed it, so how does that work? Again, you're back at a paradox (i.e. if that doesn't happen, then how did they go to the "future" in the first place)...

Hence the alternate universe idea...so then it isn't so much "time travel" as it is "dimensional travel" to an alternate universe.... But even that, the idea that just a changed decision sprouts a whole new Universe into being? It's a bit much to take really...



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


Good points and the parodoxes can go on and on.

So in order for this to happen these beings would need to be extra dimensional.

This is because we wouldn't have observed the event on our plane or hypersurface. So you could change the past for beings on our plane of existence if you could travel to the future via the fourth dimension.

This would be even easier for them because our universe would be laid out in front of them. It would be like watching a race from the stands. The higher dimensional beings could see the whole track but we are like the Jockey's and can see things moment to moment.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by Matrix Rising]



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


They stole the idea from the montauk story. Go and listen to the monatuk vids.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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Time/reality is like a supermassive flowing river that splits, reconnects, and has endless amounts of variations and run-offs.

The future is never really permanently set in place; there are some events actions that are much more likely to happen than others, but in reality, it is never set because we all have the choice to change and create our reality.

If an ET civilization were to travel to the future, and see that Clinton had won the election, they could return and change it, but that would just set off another time-line besides the original one of Clinton winning. Traveling into the future involves going so fast that time for you slows down, but time for everyone else stays the same. Almost like getting frozen and re-thawed.

If you go into the future, your reality has changed with the time, and their is nothing you can do too change that specific reality. You go back and change things, but that doesn't destroy that particular reality, it just makes a new one along side it.

So if your hanging around in the past, and make sure that your never born, you won't die, because the reality in which you were born still exists. You cannot destroy/change reality, because it is infinite.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by Monts
The future is never really permanently set in place; there are some events actions that are much more likely to happen than others, but in reality, it is never set because we all have the choice to change and create our reality.


In the montauk books, they talk about time being a cycle, and loop. It goes round forever. So in there theory you keep repeating it over and over again.

This theory is possible. Plus just as possible as time going on forever.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 02:32 PM
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In his book, Time Travel in Einstein's Universe, Dr. J. Richard Gott subscribes to the theory that time travel remains self-consistent. You may observe your past, even interact with it, but you cannot change it (though his book does explore all possibilities). In the Hillary Clinton/Barack Obama scenario, the event (Hillary Clinton winning the Presidency) would be the time-traveler's past (even if it occurs in the "future"), in that since they observed it, to them it has already happened. Any efforts to change that past would result in them actually ensuring those events took place.

I think you should check out Time Travel in Einstein's Universe, Matrix. It's right up your alley.

But for the sake of argument, let's say that time and history are malleable. Why would these hypothetical alien time travelers want to manipulate our time-line?

[edit on 18-12-2009 by DoomsdayRex]



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
I was reading an interesting article over on Journal of Frontier Science that says an advanced civilization could change our past by traveling to our future.


Let's say this advanced civilization wanted Barack Obama to be President. The year is 2007 and the month is March. This advanced civilization could travel to the future. They can see that Hillary Clinton will become President because
Obama didn't compete in Iowa. He skipped Iowa and tried to build a firewall in New Hampshire that didn't work and we have our first female President. This advanced civilisation could then travel back to 2007 and they could make sure
that Obama competes in Iowa.

See, they can change our timeline if it hasn't been observed yet.

Let's say that America lost the revolutionary war in the original timeline. This advanced civilization could travel to the future before the war and see that we lost. They could then make sure that America won the war. It would feel like
destiny. Like something was guiding them.

Unfortunately, these things would be hard if not impossible to measure. This is because we would see these things as destiny, deja vu or we were just mistaken. So the next time you say,"I could have sworn I did that", maybe you did.


www.frontierscience.us...

So if you traveled to the future and then changed an event before we observed it, you could change our past. I don't see anything that violates the laws of physics as we know them because causality isn't violated.

I just wanted to get other folks opinion.


I believe that time travel is possible but it wouldn't matter to us that somebody goes back to kill my great grandfather or makes Hillary president or what not. Because I'm starting to believe the multiple universe/possibility theory. Basically what they theorize is that we would never know those things have happened because it would be another time line or possibility that may opened for the changer. So the guy goes back and changes the past, he comes back to the future that isn't the same, but it's not his future it's the alternate time line future. Everybody will think that it's normal that Hillary is the president and not Barack Obama but you the time traveler would know. But lets get even simpler, lets say I go back 10 years and magically appear on a sidewalk in Chicago. A grasshopper is on the sidewalk and I step on it, then I decide to transport back to the future. Nothing looks out of normal, but I'm still not in MY future world. I have changed the past, it may not have been big or it's not noticeable yet but I have changed it and I'm not in my future.

The Simpsons did something like this years ago on their halloween show where Homer changed the past and he kept going back and back and back until he came back and things looked okay, except the people ate like lizards and he said close enough. This was the multiple universe theory. Now you have to know one thing, the farther you go back the more chance that stepping on a grasshopper or anything may effect the future, like a butterfly flapping itj's wings in China and through this a hurricane forms in the Caribbean. Wormholes are the only way to go back in time or forward in time, but that depends also.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by Monts
 


Good points.

I think if you look at it from the standpoint of Einstein/Minkowski spacetime and the light cone it might be possible.

Einstein said the difference between past, present and future is a persistent illusion. So future time exists but it's not fixed. So it would be like fast forwarding a tape.

So our spacetime is like one whole but we see it in pieces from moment to moment on our hypersurface. If you traveled forward in hyperspace one hour ahead, you would see the future. That future could be changed though for beings on our plane of existence because we haven't observed it yet.

So a person might wake up after the election and say, "I don't know why I thought Hillary won the election." Maybe she did on our original timeline that was erased be these beings.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by Matrix Rising]



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by andy1033
 


I will have to check out these montauk books. Thanks for the info.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


Good Points.

It doesn't matter if they observed it because we are on a different plane of existence that hasn't observed it yet.

Why would they do it? It might be just because they can. It's hard to speak about their motivations. I don't know the motivation of a couple of my cousins that do things I don't understand.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by hoghead cheese
 


Good points.

I agree about changing the past. That's why you would travel to the future and try to change events before we observed them.



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