British Ministry of Defense reports huge diamond shaped object over Scotland.

Very interesting news article concerning a British Ministry of Defense Report which describes a huge 'diamond shaped' object hovering over Scotland:

Revealed- How the government probed Britain's greatest UFO mystery.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c32977e462f3.jpg[/atsimg]

Declassified government files have revealed how Ministry of Defence (MoD) officials launched a top-level probe into a diamond shaped aircraft seen hovering above a Scottish village.

Officials were so alarmed by the object, which was captured on camera, that they broke with established procedures and referred the sighting to ministers.

They also overrode rules prohibiting investigations into UFO sightings not considered an immediate threat to national security, and spent more than a year trying to crack the still unexplained mystery.

According to the files, the Ministry of Defence first became aware of the existence of the craft when the Daily Record newspaper presented it with six colour photographs of the object. The UFO seen by two men, one of whom captured it on camera, as it hovered in daylight near the A9, at Calvine, north of Pitlochry, on August 4, 1990.

The witnesses said it hovered for about 10 minutes – during which time military aircraft were also seen making a series of low-level passes – before moving upwards, out of sight, at great speed.

The files show that officials established from the photographs that the military craft were Harrier jets even though, intriguingly, none were operational in the area at the time.

An MoD minute prepared for the then Armed Forces Minister, Sir Archie Hamilton, and dated September 14, 1990 states: "Under Secretary of State (Armed Forces) may wish to be aware that the Scottish Daily Record may run a story regarding an alleged sighting of a UFO near Pitlochrie in early August. Such stories are not normally drawn to the attention of Ministers and the MoD press office invariably responds to questions along well-established lines emphasising our limited interest in the UFO phenomenon and explaining that we therefore do not have the resources to undertake any in-depth investigations into particular sightings.

"They [the photographs] show a large stationary, diamond-shaped object past which, it appears, a small jet aircraft is flying. The negatives have been considered by the relevant staff who have established that the jet aircraft is a Harrier (and also identified a barely visible second aircraft, again probably a Harrier) but have reached no definite conclusion regarding the large object."

The MoD even prepared a defensive media strategy in the event that journalists should bombard its press office with questions about the craft.

Journalists who quizzed the department were to be told that "no definite conclusions have been reached regarding the large diamond shaped object".

However, the Daily Record did not run the pictures.

Dr David Clarke, a university journalism lecturer and UFO expert, said: "This is the most tantalising of all the UFO reports. This shows how the MoD was worried about what the hell they were going to say. They had no idea what it was. They couldn't even identify where the Harriers had come from. It is a real mystery. It is one that can't be explained. They took it very, very seriously."

The files show that a year after the original photographs were taken, the MoD tasked experts to produce line drawings of the UFO which would give officials an idea of scale.

Even the creation of the drawings was shrouded in strict secrecy. One undated document suggests "very special handling" because of "sensitivity of the material". It also orders "minimum handling by listed personnel".

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Interesting report - wonder if they are ever going to release the photographs. :shk:



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Here's a small version of the pic. (This was a reconstruction of original image). I can't find the original image although I do remember this incident from the time.




[edit on 18/12/2009 by UKWO1Phot]

fascinating article, i'm surprised at how sober the piece is. strange from the telegraph.

reply to post by karl 12



i agree Karl12 , this is a good one

you know if they won't release the photograph then there is something to this. according to Pope the picture was "most impressive"

Former MoD civil servant Nick Pope, who dealt with UFO reports, described the image as the "most impressive" ever shown to his department.

He said: "The MoD has all sorts of equipment and expertise that we used to analyse and enhance imagery to tell whether there were any signs of fakery.

"This picture was assessed by our digital experts, who concluded it was a real photograph showing a solid-structured craft which was estimated as being around 25m in diameter.

"There were no wings and no visible signs of any propulsion system.

"It was exotic and unknown in a way far beyond even the most modern stealth aircraft being trialled at that time."
news.scotsman.com...

During his time with the ministry, Pope had a blown-up copy of the photograph on his office wall until it was personally taken down by his superior. He recalled: "My head of division removed it and put it in his drawer because he was convinced, wrongly in my opinion, that it showed a top secret prototype craft.

"Somewhere along the line the photo disappeared, but I have no idea whether it was genuinely misplaced or whether it was treated as something we shouldn't have seen and put through a shredder."
news.scotsman.com...

no way was it put in a shredder. my bet is, we will never see it



here's another (supposed) triangle craft spotted in Scotland 2002

ufocasebook.com...

2002-Glascow, Scotland. The photographer said he took this picture at about 10:00 PM, in Glasgow, Ayrshire, Scotland. He said: "I was looking out my window (I was actually looking for my cat that had ran out the door) when I saw this strange thing in the sky. As soon as I saw it, I just grabbed my digital camera and took a picture. After I took the picture, I turned round to give the camera to my girlfriend, looked back, and it was gone. There was no noise just total silence."
ufos.about.com...

Great case, and IMO debunking is not possible at all, have seen people try and fail, I even had a long hard try, this is one of those cases, where those who accept the events talk about it and wait for more information, and those who refuse to accept it, avoid it like the plague, only a few cases are like that.

You will get the usual this has been covered before reply, but it has enough mystery around it, that it needs to be reintroduced now and then, just to get different fresh opinions, and maybe that one missing pieces of the puzzle, whether it's been on ATS a dozen times or not, it's still an unanswered event, which always need new and fresh eyes.

I along with several other people filed a FOI request for the pictures involved with this case, the response was the Photographs where lost, mislaid, or couldn't be found, talk is however they are still classified and can not be released due to National Security reasons, probably because the pictures show Air Force jets in conjunction with an unknown object.

Even Nick Pope searched for them to no avail, but I have my own opinion of Nick Pope, some of the way he has worked since leaving the Ministry does not add up, he is a nice guy and all, but I cant get past the feeling he still works for the British Ministry in some capacity, maybe to help guide things away when needed?

Back to the pictures, I cant see these pictures being released any time soon, I also believe there was a lot more to this event that is known to the public, once the object was out of sight, who knows what events continued to happen? I really do believe the event went on to a different location still involving Aircraft from the RAF, just in a place where there where no witnesses to what happened afterwards.

But the FOI request is still ongoing, with requests going to several different Arms of the Government.

reply to post by azzllin


couldn't agree more on the need to bring up this type of incident repeatedly, i'm ashamed to say, i was totally unaware of it before today .

you don't happen to know if anyone has asked the scottish daily record about the pictures (probably have) and what the responce was? also, does anyone have a link to the original reports?

That's a nice story. According to this Telegraph article the Scottish Daily Record has the photos. It happened almost 20 years ago but maybe they still have the photos. Should we give them a call?

Edit: I just sent The Daily Record an email on this, let's see what the reply is.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by cripmeister]

reply to post by pieman


As far as I know, there was a local group who still had the event as active, as for the newspaper I am not sure if they approached the paper, I can find out though, just need some time to pull out a phone number or email address and ask.

if you didn't mind to much and had a few minutes, it might be worth while asking the question. the photos (or even the negatives, ewwheagh) could well be sitting in the back of a dusty filing cabinet somewhere at the daily record and nobodies thought to check with them.

what a christmas pressie that would be!!

I don't understand - why did the paper not publish the photos? Is there a requirement to run everything by the Ministry of Defence beforehand?
And who were the 'witnesses' and did they not publish their stories (or pics if they had them).
Also before we get all excited about the notion of aliens, we should remember a UFO is just that. And I would guess that many governments have secret technology that only those with the highest clearance know about.


[edit on 18-12-2009 by unicorn1]

It is stories like THIS ONE that legitimate the existence of conspiracies based upon cover-up theories:

where
are
the
photos?


DEFE 24/1940/1
Decription from UK MoD itself:

Page 114: UFO photograph from Scotland. August 1990, at Calvine near Pitlochry: six colour photographs of a diamond-shaped UFO and a Harrier jet were taken by two men. The pictures were given to the Scottish Daily Record who passed them to the MoD. However, the file does not contain the photographs.

Price: 3.50 £ .
HINT: Get a beer rather.

The UK MoD release of UFO files looks very much like a JOKE to me.
If you gonna release, then SHARE EVERYTHING you have, don't just state that "there's nothing interesting out there" but in the meantime you share only stuff that has relevance ZERO and KEEP HIDDEN what we all want to see and (theoretically) would have the RIGHT to see. You say there's nothing to see, but you hide, that's the perfect embryo for the birth of conspiracies around the matter.

The point is that we are in their hands:
at least they will always be able to say that it was some super-secret-wow-w.t.f. - e.t.c.e.t.e.r.a. project and shut our mouths, because military comes before everything, and if it's a matter of security everything can be hidden.
cripmeister sent an email i'll do the same, now.

Yeah, it would be nice if we could get the photos.
Suerly there out there somewhere.
But in 1990 aswell, i wounder if the paper was told not to publish the images? And since then the negatives and the photos have dissapeard..?
Dimond shaped craft too. There are a few storys with craft of this shape in them too. Dont think ive ever seen a supposed photo of one. Only drawings.. It would be great to see them pictures.

Thanks for the replies -I have to say I'd never heard of this one before and I found it interesting that the MOD broke with all official protocol when reporting and investigating the incident:

Officials were so alarmed by the object, which was captured on camera, that they broke with established procedures and referred the sighting to ministers.

They also overrode rules prohibiting investigations into UFO sightings not considered an immediate threat to national security, and spent more than a year trying to crack the still unexplained mystery.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

I also found this remark pretty intriguing regarding the 'sensitivity of the material'..

Even the creation of the drawings was shrouded in strict secrecy. One undated document suggests "very special handling" because of "sensitivity of the material". It also orders "minimum handling by listed personnel.

..sounds a bit like the RAF Boulmer incident from 1977:

The RAF Boulmer report was deemed so sensitive that instead of being released to the public 25 years later as normal a further three-year ban was imposed.

Bizarre UFO witnessed at RAF Boulmer -1977

With all these sensitive government UFO reports describing unexplained objects in the skies over Britain isn't it a bit irresponsible for the MOD to have closed their UFO reporting desk?

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Thanks for posting. Very interesting.

"We're sorry, we like to encourage posts that contribue to the discussion.
Your post has been determined to be too short. Please use your browser's back button and add to your message."

OMG, they spelt "contribute" wrong. lol.

Originally posted by easynow

During his time with the ministry, Pope had a blown-up copy of the photograph on his office wall until it was personally taken down by his superior. He recalled: "My head of division removed it and put it in his drawer because he was convinced, wrongly in my opinion, that it showed a top secret prototype craft.
news.scotsman.com...

Easynow - some very nice reading there matey.
Nick Pope has made some pretty interesting statements in his time -particularly this one dealing with prototype aircraft:

"We were asking the Americans, 'Are you operating a prototype aircraft in our airspace?' That, of course, was nonsense. You simply would not do that from a diplomatic and political point of view. It would undermine the entire structure of NATO if you were putting things through someone else's airspace, particularly a close ally, without seeking the proper diplomatic clearance. But we had to ask. And the Americans, having had similar reports, I guess, since the Hudson Valley wave [New York state, mid-1980s], had been quietly asking us if we had some large, triangular shaped object that could go from 0 to Mach 5 in a second. Our response was that we wished we did. This was the bizarre situation: that we were chasing the Americans, and the Americans were chasing us."
Nick Pope
Head of the "UFO desk" at Air Secretariat 2-A, British Ministry of Defence from 1991-1994






"The official line from the Ministry of Defense is, 'Yes, this happened. No, we don't know what it is, but we say that it is of no defense significance.' How can it possibly be of no defense significance when your best jet is left for standing by a UFO? And, again, how can it be of no defense significance when your air defense region is routinely penetrated by structured craft?"
Nick Pope
Head of the "UFO desk" at Air Secretariat 2-A, British Ministry of Defence from 1991-1994

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12

If I recall I think around this time there was also an incident reported where a man (his name escapes me) a park ranger or gamekeeper I believe was 'assaulted' by a 'probe' ufo that he came across in some undergrowth in the woods ! He said it resembled a world war two antisubmarine mine 'a globe shape with rods sticking out all over it' that rolled toward him and grasped his trousers and ripped them to shreads ! He was so badly beaten by this thing that he literally had to crawl the few miles home ! His wife on seeing him asked what had happened he told her of his experience and she just said to him that he'd been watching too many films but on inspecting his injuries the local constabulary were called and a full report made ! The police took this 'assault' very seriously and engaged in an extensive investigation ! No conclusion was ever made as to what actually occurred and the case is still open ! This chap was well respected in the community and not prone to fantasy or exaggerations due to his job of work ! If i can find any links i will supply them i will have to tax my brain and try and recall the location or names involved ! Until then please feel free to investigate anymore info would be much appreciated ! This case was featured on an old show here in the UK called 'Strange but True' if thats any help !

reply to post by ProRipp


Hey ProRipp thanks for the reply -that incident certainly is a very interesting one and happened to forester Robert Taylor near West Lothian in 1979 -theres a good thread about it here (eighth picture down).

Seems Scotland has had more than its fair share of strange UFO reports over the years - theres also a lot of interesting eye-witness testimony coming from the Bonnybridge area (and the Falkirk triangle) as well.

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by ProRipp

 

Hey ProRipp thanks for the reply -that incident certainly is a very interesting one and happened to forester Robert Taylor near West Lothian in 1979 -theres a good thread about it here (eighth picture down).

Seems Scotland has had more than its fair share of strange UFO reports over the years - theres also a lot of interesting eye-witness testimony coming from the Bonnybridge area (and the Falkirk triangle) as well.

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Thanx for refreshing my memory on the blokes name !

Found a better version and have stuck it on ATS media

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/401029aaf5cb.jpg[/atsimg]

This is from this site

Don't know if this is real though...looks a bit iffy

Arrghh it's a reconstruction....sorry

Edit for stupidity!

[edit on 19/12/2009 by nomadros]

Yeah ^

The real pictures are "lost" lol

I doubt we'll ever see them...

[edit on 19-12-2009 by Fist_Of_The_North_Star]

[edit on 19-12-2009 by Fist_Of_The_North_Star]