Mike Bellone's shocking claim on "Conspiracy Theory"

I HAVE read that before, Somewhere? I'm pretty sure in comments on blogs & stories about it. Not often, but I had seen that. It was not new or shocking to me. I recognized it.

reply to post by CUBD1


To CUBD, Impressme, and all the others....

A jetliner would have to fly into an active volcano for me to believe the black boxes could not be recovered.

All of you armchair "experts" just spout what you 'believe', or have been 'told' by the conspiracy sites...usually getting it WRONG!

ENOUGH!!!

news.google.com...,4293589

(Go to page 59....the link didn't copy perfectly)

"The two 'black boxes' carrying vital infomation on a downed Air Ontario jet were DESTROYED in the fire that followed the crash..."

OK???

That is just but one example. Of course, those who are DETERMINED to 'believe' the conspiracy nonsense won't bother to pay attention to facts....

Getting it now???



[edit on 22 December 2009 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by CUBD1

 

To CUBD, Impressme, and all the others....

A jetliner would have to fly into an active volcano for me to believe the black boxes could not be recovered.

All of you armchair "experts" just spout what you 'believe', or have been 'told' by the conspiracy sites...usually getting it WRONG!

ENOUGH!!!

news.google.com...,4293589

(Go to page 59....the link didn't copy perfectly)

"The two 'black boxes' carrying vital infomation on a downed Air Ontario jet were DESTROYED in the fire that followed the crash..."

OK???

That is just but one example. Of course, those who are DETERMINED to 'believe' the conspiracy nonsense won't bother to pay attention to facts....

Getting it now???
[edit on 22 December 2009 by weedwhacker]

Wow, I'm surprised you posted this..

Here is a quote from your Milwaukee Sentinel of 1989 paper:

Officials had said Saturday that the voice and flight data or black boxes were badly burned but still could be used.

How could they determine THAT if they NEVER found them??

So in summary they DID find the black boxes, but the damage to them prevented the data from being used.

So we are back to my original request: Has there ever been a land based aircraft crash/accident where the black boxes were never FOUND?

Another debunker re-educated by Swing Dangler....

Originally posted by weedwhacker
"The two 'black boxes' carrying vital infomation on a downed Air Ontario jet were DESTROYED in the fire that followed the crash..."

So...if they were known to be destroyed then they were still recovered correct? They were destroyed but the did not cease to exist and were found. Since I know you would jump on a detail such as that, I thought I would help you out.

reply to post by Swing Dangler


Oh, jeeze.....how hard is this to understand???

The crash in 1989 did NOT have a skyscraper and mass of steel, concrete and other debris fall on it!!!

So, let's recap (and this is part of YOUR continuing re-education):

There is at LEAST one instance of a fire resulting in FDR and CVR damage that was sufficient enough to render the data virtually unusable.

WTC --- check. Very hot fire, for long time.

Most airplane crashes on land don't encounter A) Such intense heat, for so long, nor: B) Do not involve a massive structure collapsing on top of them.

Now, here's something to stick into our thinking cap:

Let's say, just for once, that this character named Mike Bellone is correct and he DID see at least one of the recorders in the WTC wreckage, and that he DID see an official (FBI??) take those alleged boxes away...

To what purpose??? Meaning, the OTHER four recorders, AAL 77 and UAL 93 were found, and three of four were readable. Would not THEY be equally as 'damning'???

I mean, according to the conspiracy website woo-woos, the ENTIRE 9/11 event was an "inside job" and "staged"...so, why just 'hide' the WTC recorders??

No, the veracity of Bellone's latest claims (the hijacking before take-off) serious throw into doubt (as if there wasn't enough doubt already) his earlier claims of seeing the recorders at the WTC clean up site.

Why is it so difficult to comprehend what was happening there in New York??

The PRIMARY concern was to find any possible survivors, and co-incidentally, to find the human remains. They had cadaver dogs to assist...and as far as I know, dogs aren't trained to sniff out flight recorder boxes.

Certainly, finding anything that even remotely resembled a recorder would have been important, but in that sort of carnage I am not surprised that nothing recognizable was found.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Swing Dangler

 

Oh, jeeze.....how hard is this to understand???

The crash in 1989 did NOT have a skyscraper and mass of steel, concrete and other debris fall on it!!!

So, let's recap (and this is part of YOUR continuing re-education):

blah blah blah blah.

Hey WW, has there ever been a time when the black box was not found?

WW: sure, right here.

Um....no they found that one.

WW: a building did not fall on it!!!!!

right, so then your answer the first time was nonsense? a distraction? what was the point of your example if you have to defend how it does not answer the question by explaining how it is NOT a good example???

You are funny.

Oh and um...didn't those buildings fall on all that DNA too? They found that just fine though right?

Hilarious!

[edit on 12/22/09 by Lillydale]

reply to post by Lillydale


Lilly, this broken record game is getting old.

Lilly, how big is DNA? How much does a typical human body contain?

WHY don't you do the research on DNA forensics???

You seem to be like a dog with a bone on the topic....it litters nearly every one of your posts. It's like you're obsessed with DNA, but don't really know much about it, and don't seem to care to learn anything about it.

I know very little, except what I've learned from just a simple search online. I can't explain it adequately, since it's not my area of expertise.

BUT....this ridiculousness about the flight recorders just won't stop.

They were subjected to intense fire for a very long time. Does anyone think that they orange paint is impervious to that? I mean, how do you normally picture the devices? Bright orange, due to the paint on the outside, right??? So, isn't it logical to suggest that maybe, just maybe, the paint is no more after being in a fire?

OK...go that. Now, how ELSE are the recorders found?

Usually, they are found where the airplane comes to rest, or nearby right??

Again, there just aren't any previous examples to go on, where a large passenger jet has impaled a skyscraper, and then the skyscraper collapsed, bringing everything within it into a mass of mess on the ground. Likely resulting in the recorders being crushed, torn open, mangled, contents spilled out.....

What is INSIDE the recorders? Circuit boards, electronics...what ELSE is normally inside an office building???

Getting it yet??? To I have to spell it out?



[edit on 22 December 2009 by weedwhacker]

I'm sorry - but - where was this guy 8 years ago??????

What, is he just remembering this stuff now??????

Is he selling a book? or something else???


What useless dribble.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Please cite an historical example of a land based aircraft crash where the black boxes were NEVER FOUND.

We have continually asked that but you refuse to offer an example. I suspect there is no example of this and you misinterpreted your own source...or you were lying. I will give you the benefit of the doubt of course.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
The crash in 1989 did NOT have a skyscraper and mass of steel, concrete and other debris fall on it!!!

But the DNA that was uncovered from the towers DID. Yet the DNA was able to be used to identify people?

I wonder how many people were identified from the 1989 crash through DNA testing?

There is at LEAST one instance of a fire resulting in FDR and CVR damage that was sufficient enough to render the data virtually unusable.

What about DNA?

I mean, according to the conspiracy website woo-woos, the ENTIRE 9/11 event was an "inside job" and "staged"...so, why just 'hide' the WTC recorders??

Hmm....I wonder if "woo-woo" is derogetory?

The PRIMARY concern was to find any possible survivors, and co-incidentally, to find the human remains. They had cadaver dogs to assist...and as far as I know, dogs aren't trained to sniff out flight recorder boxes.

But FDR boxes are trained to give a locating beacon.

They are designed to emit a locator beacon for up to 30 days, and can operate immersed to a depth of up to 6,000 meters (20,000 ft)

en.wikipedia.org...

I am not surprised that nothing recognizable was found.

Does this include DNA?

[edit on 22-12-2009 by Nutter]

Originally posted by tomfrusso
I'm sorry - but - where was this guy 8 years ago??????

What, is he just remembering this stuff now??????

Is he selling a book? or something else???


What useless dribble.

Actually his story and the person whom he was with witnessed the black boxes. The guy has been around for awhile as documented by the History Commons-See some sources of Mike Bellone's story here

Originally posted by tomfrusso
I'm sorry - but - where was this guy 8 years ago??????

What, is he just remembering this stuff now??????

Is he selling a book? or something else???


What useless dribble.

Actually his story and the person whom he was with witnessed the black boxes. The guy has been around for awhile as documented by the History Commons-See some sources of Mike Bellone's story here

I don't necessarily buy his 'new' story about anonymous friends at the airport and the plane being hijacked before take off, but the black box has an additional named witnessed to the story.

Originally posted by weedwhacker

Lilly, this broken record game is getting old.

Lilly, how big is DNA? How much does a typical human body contain?

Microscopic and LOTS OF IT.

WHY don't you do the research on DNA forensics???

I have, have you? DNA is highly susceptible to heat and pressure. Black boxes must be made out of something even more so?

quote]You seem to be like a dog with a bone on the topic....it litters nearly every one of your posts. It's like you're obsessed with DNA, but don't really know much about it, and don't seem to care to learn anything about it.

Please school me then. Explain to me why you keep mentioning that the body has lots of DNA? How does that help them find it instead of a black box? What is your logic as you have not even tried to explain your point in that yet. Maybe I seem like a dog with a bone because you keep telling me that I am wrong and yet so far...can not do anything to back that claim up.

I know very little, except what I've learned from just a simple search online. I can't explain it adequately, since it's not my area of expertise.

Then I suggest that you leave it for someone else to debate.

BUT....this ridiculousness about the flight recorders just won't stop.

That is what happens when you are wrong or lying. What you are saying is that my point about these black boxes is valid, you can not refute it, and that is really starting to bother you. Maybe take a nap and let someone more informed take over for you?

They were subjected to intense fire for a very long time. Does anyone think that they orange paint is impervious to that?

Why wold 'orange paint' matter? Did the DNA have bright orange paint on it too?

I mean, how do you normally picture the devices? Bright orange, due to the paint on the outside, right??? So, isn't it logical to suggest that maybe, just maybe, the paint is no more after being in a fire?

I never said they should be easy to spot do to being orange. Was the DNA easy to spot because it was orange?

OK...go that. Now, how ELSE are the recorders found?

Locting Beacon.

Usually, they are found where the airplane comes to rest, or nearby right??

I am not sure if that is 'usually' how they are found. That is your assumption but since it means nothing, you can have it.

Again, there just aren't any previous examples to go on, where a large passenger jet has impaled a skyscraper, and then the skyscraper collapsed, bringing everything within it into a mass of mess on the ground. Likely resulting in the recorders being crushed, torn open, mangled, contents spilled out.....

...and the human DNA, some of which was pretty near those boxes landed neatly on top covered in orange paint that somehow overcame the fact that even microscopic orange paint is invisible still too?

Why is it you do not see how you keep contradicting yourself in these responsese?

What is INSIDE the recorders? Circuit boards, electronics...what ELSE is normally inside an office building???

There were people inside that office building too. Did those people also have DNA? They managed to find all that terrorist DNA though didn't they? Man it sucks when the OS cancels out your mistaken belief that helps you believe in the OS.

Getting it yet??? To I have to spell it out?

Yup. It is starting to look that way. How about you just admit that you know of NO other time in history when the black boxes were not recovered. You claimed it happens and yet...here you are explaining exactly why this is the first time it could have happened.

Interesting that you are spending so much time defending a premise that belies you original statement that got you into this mess and yet you still cannot just admit you were wrong to begin with. If you were at all right, you would not be defending this pile of crap now.

PLEASE SPELL IT OUT FOR ME.


[edit on 12/22/09 by Lillydale]

Originally posted by Orion7911
Don't let agents like disinfodave distract you from the objective and from seeking truth. I guarantee the truth of the 911 hoax will continue to grow and be validated more and more as will all those fighting today against this EVIL LIE called September 11th be vindicated. Future generations will look back and thank all those who relentlessly questioned and refused to STAND DOWN against the Perps, shills, agents and OS defender apologists.

All right, I don't care if the moderators yank this post, it still needs to be said- this type of attitude is just plain horribly godawful IGNORANT.

This isn't some children's game where we try to deduce that Professor Plum killed Mr. Boddy in the kitchen with the candlestick, you know, you're accusing the US gov't (plus 100,000 other bystanders of myriad levels of society) of orchestrating MURDER. For something that hard core serious, we need to look at BOTH sides of the issue to see which side has the better credibility. That's the whole reason why we have a trial by jury- to listen to both sides of the story, and that's the whole reason why I'm here- to give people the information that these damned fool conspiracy web sites are deliberately withholding from people. If I'm saying somethign that's incorrect, fine, then tell me why it's correct and I'll stop saying it.

On the other hand, saying, "Don't let xxx distract you" is just another way of saying, "don't listen to xxx becuase xxx is saying dangerous things", and the only reason why anyone would think xxx is saying dangerous things is if its a threat to what they want to believe. This is literally the exact opposite of what I've been saying, that NO information is dangerous, and that people should hold up BOTH the conspiracy claims as well as the 9/11 commission report to the exact same high level of critical analysis, in order to know who has the better credibility. The moment you admit you need to protect your beloved conspiracy stories from critical analysis, it's the moment you're admitting your beloved conspiracy stories are rubbish.

I said it before and I'll say it again- The truth never has to run and hide from falsehoods. It's always falsehoods that have to run and hide from the truth. Twist this into whatever way you want to look at it, Orion, but at the end of the day, I'm not running from the material you post. You're running from the material I post.

reply to post by Nutter


In 1989 DNA testing was in early stages - few labs were capable of doing it and took fairly large uncontaminated samples to test.

Your claim is that since did not test for DNA therefore is invalid

The "locator beacon" in the flight recorders is a sonar pinger to enable
search crews to find it if lands in water

It was presumed that the color (orange) and shape of boxes would enable
it to be identified in the mass of aircraft wreckage

Presumption was that aircraft would crash in isolated area, away from
sturctires and if did crash into buildings would be small low raise type
structures. Not 110 floor skyscrapers, some of the largest building in to
world, crashing down in a massive heap of rubble. As for fire - boxes
are designed to resist fires in pools of jet fuel - the presumed situation
the box would be exposed to. Not being exposed to fires in massive
garbage pile which burns for 3 months

The boxes are designed to resist extreme conditions - problem was the
situation at WTC was too extreme. Being slammed into skyscraper at
500 mph, exposed to fires for long period of time, falling 1000 ft in midst
of churning debris pile, burned for 3 months in debris pile.

Can assume the boxes were destroyed....

Originally posted by thedman
The boxes are designed to resist extreme conditions - problem was the
situation at WTC was too extreme. Being slammed into skyscraper at
500 mph, exposed to fires for long period of time, falling 1000 ft in midst
of churning debris pile, burned for 3 months in debris pile.

Can assume the boxes were destroyed....

You people still don't get it do you?

You describe something that destroys a black box. Designed to resist extreme conditions was your own words.

The DNA was also "slammed into skyscraper at 500 mph, exposed to fires for long period of time fell 1000 ft in midst of churning debris pile and also burned for 3 months" just like the boxes.

How is it that they found the DNA to match the terrorists while NOT finding the black boxes?

They both went through the same scenario you know.

But, I guess DNA is more resilient than a black box? Please.

reply to post by Swing Dangler


The request for an instance prior to 9/11 when a land-based aircraft crash site 'black boxes' were 'never' found is irrelevant, and is a diversion tactic, and everyone can see it as such.

This began, firstly, as comments from Mike Bellone that he A) Saw what he thought were the Flight Recorders, because he said they were "yellow" with "black stripes". He got their description wrong, which is just about right for someone who made it up by pulling it out of his butt to begin with.

Then, B) He claimed he saw an agent or agents take the boxes away from the WTC site. Thus, implying a covert action and possible "cover up" (Wooooo!!!)

Then, the discussion went something like, "There is no instance where the data could not be read out, because the 'black boxes' are indestructible."

That was shown to be a misconception.

The distraction shifted from that nugget of nattering nabobbery to this latest one, trying to equate the events at the WTC, when it was, twice, the ONLY cases seen that a large jet airplane impacted a tall skyscraper, and much of the wreckage remained in the building, in a raging fire for nearly an hour, THEN the building collapsed, and ANYTHING that might have been recoverable, found, identified, etc, was now put through the Cuisinart of the collapsing process, with the attendant chaos and intense energies involved, and STILL they don't get it??? It's "not good enough" they sneer. "Show us just ONCE an instance where a land-based airplane crash resulted in not finding the recorders" they demand.

Wow! There is no end to the nuttiness.


BTW....what exactly IS the point of trying to claim that the recorders are missing due to nefarious acts??? I don't get the connection, nor the logic.

As I said, the OTHER recorders, subjected to far less stress, were recovered and three out of four held viable data.

By that logic, there should have been nothing to "hide" regarding AA 11 and UA 175, either. In fact, it would have been GREAT! if we could have some FDR data to examine, maybe it would have shut up a lot of these conspiracy site ninnies, the ones who started this nonsense in the first place. Ah, but...in this sort of environment, even then they'd still have some other ridiculous claim up their sleeves...

Back to the WTC Towers...you know there's a huge contingent of people who want to believe the Towers were rigged with explosives, and somehow the airplanes were timed perfectly to hit, as the explosives blew...or, instead, the airplanes hit, and then about an hour or so LATER the explosives were set off...or...lasers from outer space did the deed...OR the airplanes were holograms...OR Wonder Woman in her invisiplane did the whole thing...no, really, that's MY new theory.

Prove me wrong!







[edit on 22 December 2009 by weedwhacker]

Not to mention the fact that I posted evidence of a "black box" that was never recovered despite crashing over land (and in very similar circumstances to the WTC crashes, only less extreme) several pages ago.

Based on this thread I can only conclude that "truthers" have little to no interest in the truth.

So ...they can find two black boxes from a mythical 'plane that didnt crash into the pentagon ! But can't find the black boxes from real planes that DID crash into the twin towers ??? Have i got this right or am i p1ssing in the wind ? Vaporised my arse !

reply to post by ProRipp


There is no doubt that an American Airlines Boeing 757, operating as flight 77, crashed into the Pentagon on 11 September 2001.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is itchin' for a fight!

Really, there is no substantiated and accurate data to suggest otherwise.

Only the most outrageous conspiracy sites claim there was no crashed jetliner at the Pentagon. Rational people know better.