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US won't stop Israeli strike on Iran: Obama

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posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 07:43 PM
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Fundies are going to love this with their holy land fetish.

Funny how they keep saying, "oh the evil Satanists and Luciferians are going to destroy Israel."

Their skulls are too damn thick to understand that Israel didn't even exist, until they created it.




posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 08:05 PM
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I think we need to seriously consider severing unconditional ties with Israel as soon as possible, with the preface that we do so as an act of neutrality rather than condemnation (to keep the antisemitism claims to a minimum from the pro-Israel lobby).

I also think gasoline sanctions are a terrible idea. Many (if not most) in America, including it's leadership, have, do and will consider any interruption in the oil supply to the US as a casus belli.

Why would Iran take it any differently considering their current situation of oil production?

Answer? They wouldn't. It would simply provoke, giving rise to more anti-west activity. AKA the justification the hawks need to remove Iran from the threat list.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Nomad451
Besides, on top of everything that is going on politically with this standoff, I am more than sure some people, somewhere within the echelons of power are PUSHING this conflict to come about, and would be doing everything within their power to to do so.

The United States is losing her grip on its reigns as the worlds superpower. Hasn't it always been said the best thing to pull a country, and even the world out of an economic depression is war?

Well if that's true, then BY GOD would TPTB want a war. Because I don't believe the world is simply in a depression, I believe we are on the verge of a totally catastrophic meltdown... We have reached a point in our civilizations development where we are literally facing a total collapse and break down.

Our worlds economy, technology, energy resources, ALL have en expiry date.
I believe we are fast approaching this expiry date and TPTB know it... They see a real potential for a game changing war, the middle-east war, and will be doing everything that can to ensure it comes about

[edit on 17-12-2009 by Nomad451]

[edit on 17-12-2009 by Nomad451]



The propaganda for the upcoming conflict with Iran has been going on since 2005, even longer than that for Iraq. The reason could be that the consciousness of the sheeple had to be conditioned for the catastrophic outcomes of this conflict. We can now hear people saying things even in conspiracy forums like "Ohh Iran vs. Israel, but they are talking the same thing since 2005. Get over it. If Israel wants to go ahead, just do it". The people of the conflict initiating nations are ready to accept the fate. Now it is just a matter of time....



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by Phlynx
Nobody wants war but the leaders of the countries. Why do we have to have war? It causes more trouble than it solves, and it is NEVER okay to end a human life by another humans hand.

This could turn out very bad.


I always wondered this. There are people & families in countries all over the world and it's only a select few that direct and wage war on our fellow humans.

I know there are families in Iran, Israel, Russia and many others that are considered enemies by any given nation but those families in those countries by and large just want to live in peace.

Its the select few that have the power to wage war and it has been that way since man began.

What we need is a UN of families that come together in the millions under one flag of peace. A UN of the Internet. Then we can hang the few that pit us against each other. We can all stay in our own countries and be patriots to our flags but these false wars really have to stop.

I think the only agenda item we would need is no war and hang those that would wage war. Pie in the sky I suppose...



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Signals
The U.S. couldn't stop Israel if they wanted to.

Our lack of support with our current administration will force Israel's hand.

I really think it will be quick and surgical...sure, some scuds will get hurled into Israel but I just don't see a Middle East uprising against Israel, their military is just too powerful.

And if there is an uprising, God help us all because Israel WILL use nukes if they are backed into a corner...


No US cannot stop Israel as long as Israeli Lobby will keep arm twisting US President and maintain their stranglehold on US politics.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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I posted this material in another thread, I will post it again here:

Egypt has already stated if Israel attacks Iran, Egypt will attack Israel. And you should also think about African nations role since many support Iran govt.


Iran also has an advanced air defense system, deployed to protect its nuclear sites; "they are dispersed and underground making potential air strikes difficult and without any guarantees of success." (Jerusalem Post, 20 April 2005). It has upgraded its Shahab-3 missile, which can reach targets in Israel. Iran's armed forces have recently conducted high-profile military exercises in anticipation of a US led attack. Iran also possesses some 12 X-55 strategic cruise missiles, produced by the Ukraine. Iran's air defense systems is said to feature Russian SA-2, SA-5, SA-6 as well as shoulder-launched SA-7 missiles


Basically you can count out the Arab league and the Non Aligned Movement involving 118 countries. Both these groups will not help in anyway with the attack on Iran as they have previously stated.

Arab League Member Countries: Majority of these countries will most possibly assist (by attacking or defending against countries) Iran in a war scenario.

Egypt
Iraq
Jordan
Lebanon
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Yemen
Sudan
Libya
Moroccod
Tunisia
Kuwait
Algeria
Bahrain
Qatar
Oman
United Arab Emirates
Mauritania
Somalia
Palestinian territories Palestinee
Djibouti
Comoros
Eritrea
Brazil
Venezuela
India


and these are the NAM member countries which includes the above given Arab League countries. They will most possibly not provide any kind of assistance to any attacks against Iran.

NAM:Member states and representatives
* Afghanistan
* Algeria
* Angola
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Bahamas
* Bahrain
* Bangladesh
* Barbados
* Belarus
* Belize
* Benin
* Bhutan
* Bolivia
* Botswana
* Burma (Myanmar)
* Brunei
* Burkina Faso
* Burundi
* Cambodia
* Cameroon
* Cape Verde
* Central African Republic
* Chad
* Chile
* Colombia
* Comoros
* Congo
* Côte d'Ivoire
* Cuba
* Democratic Republic of the Congo
* Djibouti
* Dominica
* Dominican Republic
* Ecuador
* Egypt
* Equatorial Guinea
* Eritrea
* Ethiopia
* Gabon
* Gambia
* Ghana
* Grenada
* Guatemala
* Guinea
* Guinea-Bissau
* Guyana
* Haiti
* Honduras
* India
* Indonesia
* Iran
* Iraq
* Jamaica
* Jordan
* Kenya
* Kuwait
* Laos
* Lebanon
* Lesotho
* Liberia
* Libya
* Madagascar
* Malawi
* Malaysia
* Maldives
* Mali
* Mauritania
* Mauritius
* Mongolia
* Morocco
* Mozambique
* Namibia
* Nepal
* Nicaragua
* Niger
* Nigeria
* North Korea
* Oman
* Pakistan
* Palestine
* Panama
* Papua New Guinea
* Peru
* Philippines
* Qatar
* Rwanda
* Saint Lucia
* Saint Kitts and Nevis
* Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
* São Tomé and Príncipe
* Saudi Arabia
* Senegal
* Seychelles
* Sierra Leone
* Singapore
* Somalia
* South Africa
* Sri Lanka
* Sudan
* Suriname
* Swaziland
* Syria
* Tanzania
* Thailand
* Timor-Leste
* Togo
* Trinidad and Tobago
* Tunisia
* Turkmenistan
* Uganda
* United Arab Emirates
* Uzbekistan
* Vanuatu
* Venezuela
* Vietnam
* Yemen
* Zambia
* Zimbabwe


Now many of these countries are third world countries and may not seem much atm but they hold key strategic locations on map. Besides that there are many individual groups/ organisations both in EU and US which oppose war against Iran. Last but not least it will effectively end the American economy and the global oil market. You will find street protests allover the world when that happens.

The broader Middle East-Central Asian region encompasses more than 70% of the world's reserves of oil and natural gas. Iran possesses 10% of the world's oil and ranks third after Saudi Arabia (25 %) and Iraq (11 %) in the size of its reserves. In comparison, the US possesses less than 2.8 % of global oil reserves.


Military action against Iran would directly involve Israel's participation, which in turn is likely to trigger a broader war throughout the Middle East, not to mention an implosion in the Palestinian occupied territories.

Israel is a nuclear power with a sophisticated nuclear arsenal. The use of nuclear weapons by Israel or the US cannot be excluded, particularly in view of the fact that tactical nuclear weapons have now been reclassified as a variant of the conventional bunker buster bombs and are authorized by the US Senate for use in conventional war theaters. ("they are harmless to civilians because the explosion is underground")

In this regard, Israel and the US rather than Iran constitute a nuclear threat.

The planned attack on Iran must be understood in relation to the existing active war theaters in the Middle East, namely Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine. The conflict could easily spread from the Middle East to the Caspian sea basin. It could also involve the participation of Azerbaijan and Georgia, where US troops are stationed.

An attack on Iran would have a direct impact on the resistance movement inside Iraq. It would also put pressure on America's overstretched military capabilities and resources in both the Iraqi and Afghan war theaters. (The 150,000 US troops in Afghanistan are already fully engaged and could not be redeployed in the case of a war with Iran.)

Moreover, US military action on Iran not only threatens Russian and Chinese interests, which have geopolitical interests in the Caspian sea basin and which have bilateral agreements with Iran. It also backlashes on European oil interests in Iran and is likely to produce major divisions between Western allies, between the US and its European partners as well as within the European Union.

Through its participation in NATO, Europe, despite its reluctance, would be brought into the Iran operation. The participation of NATO largely hinges on a military cooperation agreement reached between NATO and Israel. This agreement would bind NATO to defend Israel against Syria and Iran. NATO would therefore support a preemptive attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, and could take on a more active role if Iran were to retaliate following US-Israeli air strikes.

Needless to say, the war against Iran is part of a longer term US military agenda which seeks to militarize the entire Caspian sea basin, eventually leading to the destabilization and conquest of the Russian Federation.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by December_Rain
 


contd...

So you see Russia understands the game plan and would not be fooled by US/Israel and will not help in anyway with attack on Iran and of course not China. It would instead protect it's resources in Caspian Sea Basin. The recent sale of Oil contracts to major EU/Asian countries will severely oppose any attack on Iran as it will threaten the Iraqi oil fields.

Why else do you think USA has not bought any major Iraqi oil fields contracts last month? In any attack on Iran these oil fields will have to be provided security cover (which again will need re-deploying of troops).

Last but not least, whatever resistance that currently exists against Iran will disappear. Iranians are very proud people and will unite in case of any foreign attacks on them. If you are not aware few months ago all the political parties (including the opposition) made a statement in case of any attack on Iran they will act as a unity and retaliate. So it's wishful thinking that any protesters will help. On the contrary, the ones protesting now will pick up guns and fight alongside.

The reason for that is the Iran's population support their govt. on nuclear issue across all parties and organization.

In an event of attack on Iran, to be successful all its nuclear sites will have to be destroyed. Let's take a look at the map of Iran where it's key nuclear sites are installed:




Here’s the population of the cities in which the nuclear sites are located (Source: City Population):

City Population (2006)
Bonab 76,610
Bushehr 169,966
Chalus 45625
Darkhovin ?
Esfahan 1602110
Fasa 92.020
Karaj 1,386,030
Mo’allem Kalaych ?
Natanz ?
Neka ?
Saghand ?
Tabas 50,000
Tabriz 3,603,456
Tehran 13,422,366
Yazd 990,818

So in order to attack any of these nuclear sites there will be a massive amount of civilian causalities. Since the attack would be a surprise attack people will not get a chance to protect themselves unlike in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Here is an extract from Oxford Research Group:

The core problem is that any military action would, in practice, have to involve more than just a series of attacks on a small range of directly nuclear-related sites.Moreover, once such action started, it would be virtually impossible to maintain any relationship with Iran except one based on violence.

Apart from anything else, all the available evidence suggests that any military action would have a very powerful unifying effect within Iran, bringing a wide range of political and religious opinion behind the administration, increasing both its power base and its stability. Even the current administration could be expected to be a focus of support. Those elements of the theocracy that are at present suspicious of Mr Ahmadinejad and may still resent his unexpected electoral success, would not stand in the way of a united Iran faced with US military action.


So you see what I said above, I was not making up from thin air. So any dreams it will be a one time attack and nothing will happen later is just that a dream. What will follow will be a mayhem that will pale WWI and II and there is no doubt about that at all.

Here is the conclusion of the whole study:

Conclusion

A US military attack on Iranian nuclear infrastructure would be the start of a protracted military confrontation that would probably involve Iraq, Israel and Lebanon as well as the United States and Iran, with the possibility of west Gulf states being involved as well. An attack by Israel, although initially on a smaller scale, would almost certainly escalate to involve the United States, and would also mark the start of a protracted conflict.

Although an attack by either state could seriously damage Iran’s nuclear development potential, numerous responses would be possible making a protracted and highly unstable conflict virtually certain. Moreover, Iran would be expected to withdraw from the Non-Proliferation Treaty and engage in a nuclear weapons programme as rapidly as possible. This would lead to further military action against Iran, establishing a highly dangerous cycle of violence.

The termination of the Saddam Hussein regime was expected to bring about a free-market client state in Iraq. Instead it has produced a deeply unstable and costly conflict with no end in sight. That may not prevent a US or an Israeli attack on Iran even though it should be expected that the consequences would be substantially greater. What this analysis does conclude is that a military response to the current crisis in relations with Iran is a particularly dangerous option and should not be considered further – alternative approaches must be sought, however difficult these may be.


It will effectively be the beginning of end of Israel and possibly Iran along with making USA a third world country. What the above study is lacking any aspects of approach by any US or Iran allies which would include more chaos and destruction.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by December_Rain]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by DaddyBare

Iran never been anything but a loud mouth bully...


Really?

Never?

Even pre 1954?

Dark days indeed when people are ignorant about History.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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Some really really good research there December_Rain.

Indeed, this will not be a one time surgical offensive on Iranian soil. It will be IMMENSE.. A question on a lot of people lips, "Is Israel capable militarily to conduct such a massive offensive?" I say yes.

December_Rain you seem like a person with their head screwed on tight.

But honestly, in your perspective, what do you see coming?



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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What if.....hear me out here.

What if TPTB & Obama are secretly planning to unite Ahmadinejad & Netanyahu in a mind blowing sit down face-to-face historic peace iniative?? What if all this is PLANNED....so Obama can swoop in and "save the world" from disaster?

(sort of like Carter/Egypt/Israel)

Wouldn't everyone see him as The Savior then?

That would even fulfill some of Ahmadinejad's motives....Iran is recognized as worthy...Israel gets a fresh start in the Middle East....

Meanwhile BO becomes worthy of the Nobel, and gains the power worldwide to usher in the NWO and appoint himself leader??

Just a thought...



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by Nomad451
 


I don't want to think about this whole situation, please don't ask me the reason why lol. As per the current scenario US want's to delay any attack on Iran upto 2011 or 2018. Reason for that is removing of US Missile Defense Shield earlier this year which could have countered any long range missile attacks from Russia and Iran.

US/Obama is not a fool as he has not removed the missile defense changed but instead is "changing" it with a Mid Range - Short Range missile defense system which will not cause any opposition from Russia. Also until Iran develops it's 3500 km range missile US has already provided Israel with adequate anti-aircraft/ missile weaponry to counter any 2000km ranged missile but I am not sure it still has some weakness or something against Iran's short-mid range missiles. The installation of the "new defense shield" will be completed in 3 phases. The second phase is estimated to be completed in 2011 and third phase in 2018.

So in other words I do not wan't to know when there will be any war if there will be any. I am hoping Obama will come into his senses and reign in Israel or else what will follow will not be good for allover the world.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by Signals
 





What if TPTB & Obama are secretly planning to unite Ahmadinejad & Netanyahu in a mind blowing sit down face-to-face historic peace iniative?? What if all this is PLANNED....so Obama can swoop in and "save the world" from disaster? (sort of like Carter/Egypt/Israel) Wouldn't everyone see him as The Savior then?


Yup... could happen but it will be far more savior-like if the saving occurs after Israel, Iran and the world get a taste of near-Armageddon. In other words, Obama or anyone else for that matter, would likely have a far more receptive audience in both of these blockheaded nations once they have seen what the abyss looks like up close.

I think it is going to take some serious blood letting before Iran and Israel are ready for some serious peace talks.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


Israel don't give a %hit about US. It's a fact if Israel attacks Iran, Iran will launch attacks on US bases in Iraq and Afghanistan and on it's trade routes. Israel want's that to involve US in the war so it can sit on US shoulder and let it do all the dirty work with losses. As if sucking all the US tax payers money like a leech is not enough all these years.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 12:54 AM
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WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!!

WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!!

WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!!

i think Israel knows that Iran is not Iraq, the success they obtained when attacking the Iraqi Nuclear plant is not to be compared with this situation, Iran has more than 1 plant, also they prepared well against an airstrike on their installations

The problem i see is that there is no evidence of bombs in Iran and they still are trying to repeat there warmonger showed on Iraq.

Also the famous quote by ahmadinejad "Israel to be wiped out of the map" has been debunked many times, the iranian leader stated that the Zionist Regime days are near, not Israel as a nation, but the system will collapse on its own.

Still the world doesnt change, i am ashamed, its like the 911 story, everyone hints to an inside job but no one take actions , i mean come on, the evidence point to the world being fooled and still the masterminds are at large carrying on with their global domination agenda.

We must ask for proof to let them attack somebody

Still this time if an attack will take place it will a different story. they cant put Iran on their knees with only 1 attack. always of course if they dont use nukes on them, so we will have Iran paying back and Israel is way too small compared to Iran.

THIS TIME PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE

EDIT to add : Also Iran for those who dont know is a very modern, beautiful country which to reach such levels had to endure many things and the process was very slow and painful, do you really believe they wanna risk out everything just to nuke the Jews??, i really dont think so.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by heineken]



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 01:35 AM
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The revelations in the press over the last couple of days regarding Iran`s interest in a nuclear trigger are interesting for a number of reasons, not least of which is are they remotely truthful ?

Lets not forget the last lot of "evidence" against Iran (nuclear details found on a laptop) were strongly believed to be Mossad (Israeli intell) originated.

But let us assume for a moment they are 100% accurate and Iran is in the final stages of producing a viable nuclear weapon. If this is the case exactly what do Israel and the west imagine they can do about it ?

Iran is not the ground war option that Iraq and Afghanistan were. Due to its terrain and substantially better and larger military it would be a daunting prospect. If you throw in the kind of effort , sustained over years , it would require it turns into a pretty much non existent option.

Air strikes are an unsure bet and carry no guarantee or even major chance of achieving primary goal. They also do carry the large risk of turning Israel (should they instigate such attacks) into a missile reception centre.

The Israeli`s are mad enough to do it though. Even though they provide a tightly compacted target within easy reach of Iran.

Iran do not yet have their latest consignment of high tech missiles ordered from Russia. Russia are claiming technical problems. The reason is probably more prosaic. With the missiles any air strike attempt against Iran would be a certain fail. Russia are probaly getting pressure not to deliver at this time.

If Iran do arm with nuclear capability you end up with 2 nations in the Middle East within striking distance who detest each other. Recipe for disaster anyone ?

Why does it feel like the base point of WW3 has been chosen and is now just awaiting the right set of circumstances to make it a go ?

Anyone want to buy a fallout shelter ?



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 03:01 AM
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What a bunch of Baloney


Ever since I first started reading ATS way before I ever joined. I've been seeing these DOOMSDAY threads about Israel attacking Iran.


Those of you who know me, understand that I'm not an Israel or Iranian FANBOY.
Didn't happen 4 years ago, didn't happen 3 or 2 years ago or even last year. It hasn't happened yet in 09. Now we are seeing massive "speculation years into the future We even have people siding up countries in this theoretical nonexistent event.


[edit on 18-12-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 03:20 AM
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Originally posted by kwisatz


Why does it feel like the base point of WW3 has been chosen and is now just awaiting the right set of circumstances to make it a go ?


I don't feel this although that's what the MSM might have us believe. If it was going to happen it would have already happened...and big. Oh and airstrikes are pretty accurate of course depending on the type of ordnance and delivery craft. Unless your using the hindenburg



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 03:35 AM
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Originally posted by December_Rain

and these are the NAM member countries which includes the above given Arab League countries. They will most possibly not provide any kind of assistance to any attacks against Iran.



Hogwash...
Too much speculation.

The agreements were signed way back in 1955 during the cold war between the US and the USSR. Meanwhile in 1991 the following countries who were members had no problems with helping attack Iraq in 1991 when it suited them.


*Saudi Arabia

*Egypt

*Syria

*Senegal

*Morocco

*Kuwait

*Oman

*Pakistan

*United Arab Emirates

*Qatar

*Bangladesh

*Bahrain

Source
It was unheard of to see support for a western war on or even participation in such a war with the west on an Islamic country by other Muslim countries up to that point. If history has taught us anything it's that war makes strange bedfellows.

So making blanket statements about who will or will not support an attack on Iran is not only foolish it's downright dangerous.


Meanwhile back at the ranch...
Profile: Non-Aligned Movement

The NAM's relevance since the collapse of the Soviet Union has been questioned, with some commentators saying the organisation has outlived its usefulness.

With its diverse membership, consensus-building is no easy task in the NAM. Some members, including India and Pakistan, have been at loggerheads for years.


[edit on 18-12-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
What a bunch of Baloney


Ever since I first started reading ATS way before I ever joined. I've been seeing these DOOMSDAY threads about Israel attacking Iran.


Those of you who know me, understand that I'm not an Israel or Iranian FANBOY.
Didn't happen 4 years ago, didn't happen 3 or 2 years ago or even last year. It hasn't happened yet in 09. Now we are seeing massive "speculation years into the future We even have people siding up countries in this theoretical nonexistent event.


[edit on 18-12-2009 by SLAYER69]


i dont think you are keeping in mind what an attack on Iran should bring the world to.

of course it takes time, 2 or 3 years speculation for such a scenario isnt that much after all.

the problem is who can do something to stop this...and im afraid no one.

there is nuclear unbalance in the arabic region

maybe ok, Iran want nukes as Israel do have, but that doesnt mean they gonna use it maybe they just want to balance things. Maybe the only way for this conflict to never happen is Israel removing their nuclear arsenal and finally realize we are all living in a tiny blue bubble in the vast enormous cosmos.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by heineken
i dont think you are keeping in mind what an attack on Iran should bring the world to.



I understand all the SPECULATION that has been going on here at ATS for years. There will be no attack on Iran by Israel. I know it makes for great conspiracy but even Israel isnt that stupid.

As far as the big Russian boogy man that Iran supposedly has in their back pocket. That's a bunch of garbage. the only reasons Russia supports Iran is for two reasons really. One Iran is a big arms customer great business in saber rattling and second Russia doesn't want change in the Iranian issue.

I've said this many times. Russia likes Iran being slapped with sanctions. That means they have the EU markets to themselves. If there were a regime change or a change of policy in Iran then the sanctions come off and Iran would be free to compete with Russia by selling it's much needed fuel to Europeans who do not like the idea of relying on Russia for their fuel.

This is exactly why we are in Afghanistan. The alternative pipeline for Central Asian fuel. The Russians are doing their damnedest to keep the Georgia issue alive in order to have an influence on the other pipeline route.




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