The Frightening Rise Of Christian Persecution

Originally posted by Selahobed


If you are right and i am wrong then it doesnt matter whatever either of us thinks because were are just the product of random evolutionary processes, so morality, the human condition, it all doesnt mean anything. We are just animals anyway so anything goes! We can do whatever we please because there is no such thing as standards, they are irrelevant in your world because you are born, live for a bit then die... Thats the whole thing.... And if thats the world you want to "educate" me into, good luck..

I get it! You are lost without your big god up there telling you to play nice right? How many preachers keep reminding us that without god telling us not to, we all want to rape children? Sorry but you are way off. God or no god, we all still live in society. If you steal from me or murder my loved ones, I do not need to ask a god if I have been hurt or if I should be unhappy about that. This is also a good indicator to me that it would not be nice to do things like that to you. If you cannot function in society and live by rules and laws just because your god does not exist, then you really best stay away from the hundreds of thousands of people that do not believe in your god now because I guarantee if you start stealing and killing among them because you have no god, they will quickly educate you about how people can still behave without an imaginary friend holding the threat of hell over them. Sad, very very sad that people think like you.

reply to post by Lillydale


No, what is truly sad is that some believe

it doesnt matter whatever either of us thinks because were are just the product of random evolutionary processes, so morality, the human condition, it all doesnt mean anything. We are just animals anyway so anything goes! We can do whatever we please because there is no such thing as standards, they are irrelevant in your world because you are born, live for a bit then die... Thats the whole thing

like the Columbine murderers!

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by Lillydale

 

No, what is truly sad is that some believe

it doesnt matter whatever either of us thinks because were are just the product of random evolutionary processes, so morality, the human condition, it all doesnt mean anything. We are just animals anyway so anything goes! We can do whatever we please because there is no such thing as standards, they are irrelevant in your world because you are born, live for a bit then die... Thats the whole thing

like the Columbine murderers!

I will agree that is sad but not as sad. The idea that an entire group of people sees me and people who think like myself as lesser. We are not as good because they think we believe the above. Those two boys are hardly representative of people who do not have a god in their lives. I find it hard to see anything more sad than the idea that just because they are one religion, they feel they can sit in judgment over me and decide that I do not know how to be good, feel love, value life, etc because I do not do it in the same sick twisted way they do. This is the kind of thinking that made it ok to slaughter indigenous peoples in 'newly discovered' lands when they would not take to good ol' Jesus. They do not know the value of life so we can just kill them. Somehow rape always showed up to but I still cannot find that part of Jesus's teachings. Anyway, I think the saddest thing is deciding millions of people are ok to be judged against all god's warnings not to judge because they are somehow less anyway.

reply to post by zarp3333

. How can one have a honest mature debate with someone who refuses to spell C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N or uses the word "fundie"?

I take it you don't use text messaging or would never have a tyre repaired at Kwik fit or don't consider anyone who types G_D serious?

Perhaps if you understood jesus you would have no need to ask the question, your response tells a story.

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
I know I'm going to get slammed for saying it like this, but...

I think back to hearing Christians bash gays. Christian leaders would say that it's OK to ban gay marriage, discriminate against gays for certain jobs, etc. etc. etc. They justified themselves by saying that being gay was a lifestyle choice. No one was born gay, they chose to become gay at some point in their life.

Well, I don't know if being gay is a lifestyle choice or a matter of genetics, but I do know that no one is born Christian. It's is definately a lifestyle choice. So, by Christian's own logic, it's OK to discriminate against them. Maybe this will give Christian leaders pause to reconsider their attitudes towards others.

This is a weak argument. In Western society, Christians disagree with homosexuality. Even the most hardcore believers will state 'love the sinner, hate the sin'. I have gay friends in and around Muslin countries. It's not a simple disagreement there. The standard penailty for homosexuality is being hung from a bridge. It's a matter of tolerance. The Muslin faith is an intolerant, murderous religion that does not respect personal freedom and liberty. It is repressive to all but the leaders and does not produce anything positive for it's followers. It is inherently evil.

Does it get any more extreme than this?

From www.texemarrs.com...

QUOTE:

"True Believers Denounced at Papal Conference"

....."Angry at Christian Bible-believers and others who refuse to acknowledge his spiritual leadership, Pope John Paul II and Vatican cronies have called for an all-out war.

As reported in the Associated Press, with the Tibetan god-man, the Dalai Lama, sitting at his right side, this October in Rome the Pope presided at a special council of some 200 religious leaders of various faiths, sects, and cults.

The Pontiff told the assembled Buddhist monks, Zoroastrian priests, Catholic cardinals, Hindu gurus, American Indian shamen, Jewish rabbis, and ecumenical clergy that all must join in condemning the Christian fundamentalists who "abuse speech" and whose efforts at converting others "incite hatred and violence."

The Pope further directed that the religious leaders promote "tolerance," mutual understanding, and respect for all religions and faiths, not just their own.

Newspaper sources called the meeting "remarkable," noting incredible scenes ranging from a ritual in which an American Indian blessed the four corners of the earth from the heart of Rome, to a Moslem Mufti and his followers kneeling toward Mecca and praying.

All present were in accord on two key points: (1) Pope John Paul II was endorsed by consensus as the planet's chief spiritual guide and overseer; and (2) Religious fundamentalists who refuse to go along with the global ecumenical movement are to be silenced. They must also be denounced as "dangerous extremists" full of hate."....


Revelation 17 describes a religious beast, “I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, have in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and full of the unclean things of her immorality, and upon her forehead a name was written, a mystery, ‘BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.’ And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus." (Revelation 17)

You can read more about the One-World religion and the Catholic church here on this thread if you're interested.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Post count:

Pure theological discussion - 185

Global economic meltdown - 0

Apparently the floodgates are now wide open...and we can expect to see Current Events topics like "Why the hatrid towards American soldiers, by Americans?" descend on this forum like a biblical plague of locust.

On behalf of the membership that devoted much time and research supporting this forum since it's inception , I would like to thank the ATS admin for their remarkable stewardship.

Welcome to OZ , where up is down , right is wrong , and the Global Meltdown Forum is where we debate the attributes that define true Christianity.

Can I get an AMEN ?

reply to post by DrBedlam

The standard penailty for homosexuality is being hung from a bridge. It's a matter of tolerance. The Muslin faith is an intolerant, murderous religion that does not respect personal freedom and liberty

According to the the xtian rule book the homosexual should be stoned to death, so what's the difference apart from the fact that western laws prevent them from doing so?

An xtian recently volunteered that should he be given the power to prevent homosexual from cohabiting or getting married he would prevent them because his bible says this or that.

Needless to say one can only imagine what he would do given the authority to act upon his he beliefs of what his books tell him.

reply to post by Selahobed

I have to admit, that I still have problems with why G-d allows suffering, and find myself getting quite angry about it sometimes because it seems soo pointless..

.


Then why not review critically whether your information in relation to this being is correct ?

However i HAVE to believe that there is SOME reason behind it,

Why ?

reply to post by moocowman


Moocowman - I'm afraid you once again demonstrate how adept you are at misrepresenting the Christian faith.

According to the the xtian rule book the homosexual should be stoned to death

The 'Christian rule book' as you put it, teaches that practising homosexuals are offered and sometimes welcome the forgiveness offered through faith in Jesus Christ, and are then welcomed into the Church on the very same basis as all forgiven sinners. Both the early church and churches faithful to the New Testament today operate in this way, and have no other practice:

1 Corinthians 6:9-12

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

I suspect you know full well that your accusations are wild fabrications, or downright false. I wish it were not so, but based on the assertions you make it appears you are either a) so anti-Christian that you either refuse to counteract your ignorance by actually spending time examining Scripture, or b) not ignorant at all, but happy to promote false information that might promote your (clear) agenda.

Originally posted by Boomer1941
reply to post by The time lord

 

The world would be a better place if all religions didn't exist, it's all BS, do the research. To do the correct research never ask a theologian, ask a historian.

I am sorry to say but I know God exists, I can not explain how but he is alive and so are his servants with him, I feel sorry for the people who are disconnected and live in the athiest Matrix world, God lives and will work in ways to one day open your eyes, he won't say who he is but he will work through your spirit and others to awaken you, first if you have the faith you will get the key. No doubt some may have other faiths and gain a different shaped key to open darkness realms but to see the light choose Christ first.

Why is this is in the "global meltdown" section? We generally discuss finance and economics here. Can't this thread be moved to a more appropriate location?

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by DrBedlam

 

The standard penailty for homosexuality is being hung from a bridge. It's a matter of tolerance. The Muslin faith is an intolerant, murderous religion that does not respect personal freedom and liberty

According to the the xtian rule book the homosexual should be stoned to death, so what's the difference apart from the fact that western laws prevent them from doing so?

An xtian recently volunteered that should he be given the power to prevent homosexual from cohabiting or getting married he would prevent them because his bible says this or that.

Needless to say one can only imagine what he would do given the authority to act upon his he beliefs of what his books tell him.

I've been observing your Posts Moocow. And i think this one finally solidified my opinion of you. Never in my life have i seen someone cherry pick there data so much. Seriously it is appalling how much you blatantly ignore the rest of the world religions

Answer me this one simple question. If the bible says we should kill homosexuals for being gay then why is it that Homosexuals are openly embraced by christians? Reform Judaism temples have been known to perform marriages between same sex couples. There are even christian churches that openly stat that homosexuality is not a sin a sickness or even a disease (metropolitan community church). The Catholics themselves seem to favor things such as GBLT rights. So much so that Six of the eight states where 50 percent or more of the public supports gay marriage are the states with the highest proportion of Catholics.

You clearly have no clue what you are talking about and you make it ridiculously clear that your thought is purely dictated by emotion.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by DrBedlam

 

The standard penailty for homosexuality is being hung from a bridge. It's a matter of tolerance. The Muslin faith is an intolerant, murderous religion that does not respect personal freedom and liberty

According to the the xtian rule book the homosexual should be stoned to death, so what's the difference apart from the fact that western laws prevent them from doing so?

An xtian recently volunteered that should he be given the power to prevent homosexual from cohabiting or getting married he would prevent them because his bible says this or that.

Needless to say one can only imagine what he would do given the authority to act upon his he beliefs of what his books tell him.

Actually, I gotta just chime in here... That wasn't the Christian's Book, that was our Book. Jesus didn't actually say ANYTHING about homosexuals.. not one word. He got pretty pissed about people using the temple as a shopping mall, but nothing about homosexuals.

Kind of makes you think Jesus might not have thought it was a big deal.. (If you believe in Jesus, anyway.. not that I do..)

Hank,what is "your" book?

reply to post by Lillydale


Hey Lillydale

I in NO WAY think i am better than you or anyone.. In fact Im worse because I KNOW what kind of debourched life i lead and i have NO room to judge anyone else with MY past!!!
Also those laws and moral codes that we live by have their roots in christianity.. They became part of our laws, and with that also became the social construct that is ingrained into everyone in our culture.. Sooo thiests and athiests alike ALL live by the moral code that was laid down in the bible whether you like it or not... Before that was pagan tribalism with human sacrifice etc, not just in british culture but in native american too.. Especially the south american indians!! Cultural christianity done away with all those things eventually! So that moral code you live by is a social construct that comes directly from the bible...

I may be a weak person in your eyes, but i can honestly say, that before i became a christian, i was a total slut with no breaks on my behaviour.. Now i have the breaks i needed, and am soo much of a better person, and soo far away from who i was that i can honestly say that i am "born again."

Originally posted by Selahobed
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Hey Lillydale

I in NO WAY think i am better than you or anyone.. In fact Im worse because I KNOW what kind of debourched life i lead and i have NO room to judge anyone else with MY past!!!
Also those laws and moral codes that we live by have their roots in christianity..

Umm... so they had no laws before Christ?

They became part of our laws, and with that also became the social construct that is ingrained into everyone in our culture..

Sorry hun but I hate to be rude here but you need to try a little harder. You are saying that people did not know it was wrong to murder before Jesus came along. You do know that Jesus was executed because he was found guilty of a crime, right? So they had crime and punishment, just no laws?

Sorry but you are just repeating the same nonsense that you needed a god to tell you that stealing and murder etc. are wrong. You just seem to be saying it a different way. I do not think you think you are better than me. I think you think I am less than human. There is a difference. You seem to think I needed your god to tell me what is right and wrong. No one is born Christian. People are born knowing what they like and do not like. Most people do not like to have their things stolen. Voila, we figure it out all without any god telling us.

I'm a Christian and all I have to say is....GET OVER IT.

This is prophecy and if you have a problem with prophecy being fulfilled...well...you're not a Christian then. Sure, it really sucks sometimes, but suck it up. They hated Jesus first(and probably more).

I am quite sure "turn the other cheek" does not mean "complain about your persecution and suffering"....rather I would think it implies to take hold to your faith and be strong in the spirit....

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.
—Luke 6:27-31. NIV

A2D

[edit on 20-12-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

This is what I call future proof scripture and it applies to all times since the Gospels are tested this way. He knew other Gospels were being written or were going to be written which were false Gospels and oral teachings I guess that even happened during the time of Jesus which could explain why there were others Gospels left out.

2Corinthians 11
Paul and the False Apostles

4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 5But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles." 6I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way.
Text

Paul Boasts About His Sufferings

18Since many are boasting in the way the world does, I too will boast. 19You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise! 20In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or pushes himself forward or slaps you in the face. 21To my shame I admit that we were too weak for that!
Text

Is Paul speaking about Political Correctness?
To me this sound just like the UK right now, they put up with political correctness and their exploits of banning elements of the religion in society and taking to court free speech and yet like Paul says, we put up with it easily even if it enslaves us, I say this is like the stealth jihad of sharia law taking a hold in democracy.

I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers. 27I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 28Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. 29Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

30If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 31The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying. 32In Damascus the governor under King Aretas had the city of the Damascenes guarded in order to arrest me. 33But I was lowered in a basket from a window in the wall and slipped through his hands.

Text

This I find says a lot of even in todays world, paul would get slashes from the Jewish old law keepers as I guess many Christians who are in Muslim countries do today as a right of law.

No doubt if the average man does not go through this in his life but I am sure people around the world do suffer like this because of their faith because of the opposite laws of that land and consituation because they are forced deny Christ and deny free thinking.



[edit on 20-12-2009 by The time lord]

reply to post by DeathShield

Answer me this one simple question. If the bible says we should kill homosexuals for being gay then why is it that Homosexuals are openly embraced by christians?

I've no idea dude, I don't believe what's in the bibles xtians claim to. There are plenty of xtians who have embrcaed child molestation, murder, theft,adultery.

I've no idea why the choose to not obey their rules I merely obsereve that they probably don't actually. believe what the bibles have to say

I've met and spoken to many xtians that certainly do not openly embrace homosexuals and some that do, albeit in a manner of superior arrogance of one patronizing the afflicted.

Why some xtinas choose to cherry pick the bibles to suit themselves can only be xplained by themselves.

You clearly have no clue what you are talking about and you make it ridiculously clear that your thought is purely dictated by emotion.

Given that so many xtains can't even agree amongst themselves n the meaning of much of the bibles that's a bit like a very arrogant pot calling the kettle black.

Yes I'm emotional alright I'm bloody fuming that a group of people, that set themselves up as morally superior to me attempt to entice my children into their delusional world.

When someone hands a book to my child, threatening that should she not believe its' contents, she will be killed and tortured for eternity and, said book has the clear instruction that homosexuals are to be put to death I get very emotional.


You sir clearly have no clue as to how repugnant your scriptures are to reasonable people, if your god does in fact not wish homosexuals put to death then it is a simple thing to remove the offending passages.