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Avatar, Great Achievement, or a Liberal/Communist Indoctrination Campaign?

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posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 01:29 AM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Then you know the history of Cuba in the same way that Michael Bay knows about robotics. I'd suggest you bow out before too many people catch onto your lying, man.


Me lying?...


It wasn't me who claimed ".......even in "communist" China (which is actually far more of a free market than the US ever has been,"....

Obviously you are lying through your teeth, but once again you, and some others are going to claim that i am a troll meanwhile you were the first ones to start throwing insults, and using other tactics to try to derail the thread.

China is not, nor has it EVER been, since the Communists took over, "a more free market than the U.S. ever has been"...

What are you a CCP political troll trying to spouse the lies of the Chinese government?...

[edit on 19-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]




posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 01:55 AM
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First of all Moore is nothing more than another Socialist, or who knows maybe even Communist because of some of the things he has done, who is using Capitalism, and the gullible in the left to make himself rich, meanwhile he bashes Capitalism constantly, and blames the U.S. for not being more Socialist or even Communist.

BTW, in case you didn't know there is a new mockumentary done by him which does nothing more than bash away at Capitalism....

He even went to Cuba and kissed the behind of castro, and even went ahead and participated in a scam of making westernes believe that "you can go to the first Cuban pharmacy, and you can buy medicine really cheap", which is nothing more than a lie.

Any Cuban-American, or Cuban living somewhere else in the world who has family in Cuba can tell you that WE, the family of Cubans living in the western countries have to send money, as well as medicine to Cuba because they lack EVEN ASPIRINS..not to mention morecomplex medicines which Cubans living in the Communist island can't normally get.


Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
By the way, if you have the first clue about the words you're using, you'd understand that socialism has no issue with private industry or profit.


Really?... well, either you have no idea what you are talking about, or once again you are trying to lie through your teeth...

In Socialism, and in Communism the STATE owns ALL the means of production and ALL infraestructure...and the profits go to the state which CLAIMS to distribute evenly the Capital among the people....



Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Because much as you don't understand that socialism has no opinion of profit-making, capitalism has no say on freedom. These aren't equal notions. The words mean different things, and aren't related at all. Again, if you knew what the words meant...


Wow... I guess Capitalism is not about a FREE MARKET.... and I guess Socialism and Communism are not about the state/government owning all the means of production and all infraestructure....



Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
The Chinese government is using capitalism the same way te American governmnet is - to make the people who count rich, so the peopel who count will throw money at the candidates of any given party (well, THE party, in China) enriching THEM in turn, while keeping hte poor too poor to really be able to do anything about it. It's a nice little head-up-the-ass oroboros of corruption. Made possible by capitalism - Maoist communism was pretty corrupt, but it was harder to be so.. .and corruption tended to result in firing squads when exposed. Sort of like what happens when you eat a translocator and sneak back into the mountain stronghold of your guerrilla football team...


What in the world are you talking about?.... I think you must be living in some science-fiction messed up world because all that babbling made no sense whatsoever.

The Communist Chinese government is using Capitalism to stay afloat, because they realized they need money...it is NOT the fault of Capitalism that the CCP of China continues to be as oppressive as ever...but it is obvious why someone like you wants to blame "Capitalism" for the attrocities caused by "Communism"....

I wonder who is confusing the different form of governments?.... *looks at "thewalkingfox"*.....



Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Again, you really don't know that communism actually means something specific, rather than just "anything I disagree with" do you?



Wow...ok...whatever in the world that means....



Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
And yet you don't know what either term means. And here, I thought Ayn Rand was dead!


Actually, it is obvious by now that you have no idea what they mean.... "Socialism has no opinion of profit making"....


In Socialism as well as in Communism the STATE/government controls all means of production as well as the distribution of capital..... Which means the STATE/government controls the market....



Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Obviously not, 'cause "Obama" and "left wing" go together about as well as chocolate and anchovies.


Oh riiight, i guess that must be why even Chavez himself has stated Obama is more Socialist than Chavez is....


If a self described Socialist/Communist states Obama is more Socialist than he is, you know the U.S. is in trouble...

And what has happened under the Obama administration....

Among other things....

The govenrment owns GM, what USED to be a private company....
The government is taking over healthcare, and passing the most Socialist laws ever passed by a U.S. administration yet "thewalkingfox" wants to claim this is not true.....




Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
I mean, I'm sure if you're a brownshirt, obama looks pretty darn left wing... or if you're just an ignoramus who can't tell the difference between communism and capitalism and liberlas and the left and environmentalism and god only knows how many other terms you're confused about...


Well, you just described yourself pretty well with the above, so maybe you are learning something...




[edit on 19-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 02:18 AM
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For one reason or another some people are either not understanding what I am saying, or they just want to distort what I have been saying because of their own political beliefs...

First of all I NEVER claimed that because a person cares for the environment that they are "Communist"....

I started the thread telling a bit about myself, and some of my own ideas to make a point..

There is a big difference between "caring for the environment meanwhile not blaming Capitalism for all environmental problems, and for all the problems in the world, as well as not demanding for human suffering just so all technology can be thrown away because of the ideology of some that technology, and people are evil", and "blaming Capitalism, and those evil imperialists for all environmental problems, and all the evil in the world"...

The environmental movement, as well as the peace movement has been hijacked for a long time by Socialists/Communists who have been using "environmental problems" and "peace' as excuses to just spred their political agendas.

I am not saying that everyone who is part of the peace movement, or everyone who is an environmentalist is a Socialist/Communist. But it is obvious by now that whether some people know it or not for the most part those people who advocate to the left-wing ideology have been embracing the Socialist/Communist agenda because of the indoctrination which has been going on for decades to do just that, to indoctrinate into people the Socialist/Communist ideas and goals.

You can care for the environment meanwhile not demanding for "all technology to be dropped right now, or some other radical CHANGE.

You can also care for the environment without "blaming Capitalism and the evil Imperialists for all the environmental problems, and all problems in the world." But it is obvious by now that some people don't see these facts, and instead they do embrace the ideas, and goals of the Socialist/Communist propaganda.

I didn't say ANYWHERE in the thread "don't watch this movie"... I presented the fact that James Cameron himself made this movie to postulate, and spread his own flawed ideologies that "Imperialism, and huh all of that is the cause for all the problems in the world including environmental problems"...

At the end, it is the decision of every person to choose whether or not they want to watch this movie.




[edit on 19-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by gdeed
Go to any communist country and see how long it takes them to throw you in prison for speaking badly about them.


No thanks, I was born in a "communist" dictatorship so I know a thing or two about it.

My questions are still opened, anyways. You say that greed and violence and theft equal Communism, not Capitalism. I say Cameron spoke against greed and violence and theft. How is his message anti-capitalist then?

Maybe because those things have more to do with the flawed human nature than a political dogma or another?

But fine, I guess you can turn anything into politics, if that's your thing.

To all of you saying Avatar is communist propaganda, don't watch it. Don't give your money to that communist Cameron. But then don't talk about the message of the movie either. I never read "War and Peace", and therefore I never find myself philosophising about Tolstoy's message and art.

I thought Avatar was a great film. If it's propaganda, then I want to be brainwashed by more such movies



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by Wallachian

Originally posted by gdeed
Go to any communist country and see how long it takes them to throw you in prison for speaking badly about them.


I thought Avatar was a great film. If it's propaganda, then I want to be brainwashed by more such movies


I don't care if people go and watch Avatar, most movies coming out of Hollywood are in the same category, bite the hand that feeds you.


Hollywood knows that you "brainwash" people with the fun stuff and it has worked marvelously.

Reality movies of past atrocities against humans is not fun stuff.



www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...



[edit on 19-12-2009 by gdeed]



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Then you know the history of Cuba in the same way that Michael Bay knows about robotics. I'd suggest you bow out before too many people catch onto your lying, man.


www.youtube.com...

Cubans had it made before communism. They wanted more and didn't want to work for it, so they Castro and goons stole it. Now they are living their communist dream.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
He has embraced the Communist ideas that "Imperialism, and Capitalism are a problem", and he is blaming MAINLY the United States....

He might not say he is Communist, he claims to be Liberal, but he is a Communist sorry to say.

If you embrace an ideal, for example, if a toung white American embraces the National Socialist ideals of Nazi Germany, no matter how many times he calls himself a "true white Christian", or some other name, he is just a Nazi.


What he's done is rip off of the plot of Dances with Wolves. Seriously, is there anything you Fox News Neocons don't think is a communist plot? Paranoid rants aren't going to help your credibility. If you like witch hunts, get yourself the Blu-Ray boxset of a McCarthy mini-series from the history channel. What a joke. Also, why are you mentioning Cameron's race?
What's the difference between a Black Christian and a White Christian? Oh wait - I'm not allowed to accuse neocons of being racist, even when they say things like "true white Christian."


[edit on 20-12-2009 by andrewh7]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by spirit777child
 


The movie shows AMERICANS, and Just AMERICANS, as wanting to take over this new world. Socialists/Communists have done the same thing. From Hitler, to The Russian Communist Government, to China.
[edit on 17-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]


YEAH! What an absurd idea! Americans conquering a NEW WORLD, taking land and resources at the expense of a native population. That could never happen in real life. Moreover, the colonization of North America was a long time ago, and it's not like we are currently conquering another region of the world as we speak in order to secure additional sources of oil. I learned American history in middle school. This guy seems to have been focused on World War II his whole life.

You'd think one of these Glenn Beck Wackos, spouting "we the people" all the time would know a little something about the colonization of America. We bought the island of Manhattan for $20!!!! We killed more Native Americans than Hitler killed Jews in the Holocaust! At least tens of millions killed by massacres and disease.

They were not allowed to own land under the law, and even when the Supreme Court to restore some of this ability, the court's judgement went unenforced by both the State of Georgia and the President Jackson. They were removed from their homes as if they were pieces of garbage.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by andrewh7]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by andrewh7
We killed more Native Americans than Hitler killed Jews in the Holocaust! At least tens of millions killed by massacres and disease.


Speak for yourself, the vast majority of Americans came to America in the twenty century and didn't kill or enslave anyone! Distorting history to push your own agenda, that's what left-wingers are.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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Every time another sci-fi movie plot that employs any hint of liberal bias is produced, we're going to hear complaints by ultra-conservatives that the film is a communist indoctrination plot. We last heard this about Wall-E and here we are again. Its sad, crazy, and pathetic, but it continues to happen so I will have to speak up.

This movie was produced in a capitalist environment using capitalist tools and workers and tickets to go see it are being sold in typical capitalist fashion. Pro-environmental and anti-imperialism messages that this movie may contain only sting those are so radically conservative that they think its an affront to their very way of life.

Avatar is not the first and will not be the last movie of this type and if you cannot put up with liberal ideas within movies, I suggest either finding a method to peacefully and legally outlaw freedom of speech within the boundaries of the USA or leave the country entirely to find or make a conservative ideas-only nation that outlaws all dissenting thoughts.

I personally am not going to see this movie because to me it looks like a pastiche of many other films I've seen before. Maybe I'll catch it when its released on capitalist home video, but not in a theater.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Frith
Every time another sci-fi movie plot that employs any hint of liberal bias is produced, we're going to hear complaints by ultra-conservatives that the film is a communist indoctrination plot. We last heard this about Wall-E and here we are again. Its sad, crazy, and pathetic, but it continues to happen so I will have to speak up.

This movie was produced in a capitalist environment using capitalist tools and workers and tickets to go see it are being sold in typical capitalist fashion. Pro-environmental and anti-imperialism messages that this movie may contain only sting those are so radically conservative that they think its an affront to their very way of life.

Avatar is not the first and will not be the last movie of this type and if you cannot put up with liberal ideas within movies, I suggest either finding a method to peacefully and legally outlaw freedom of speech within the boundaries of the USA or leave the country entirely to find or make a conservative ideas-only nation that outlaws all dissenting thoughts.

I personally am not going to see this movie because to me it looks like a pastiche of many other films I've seen before. Maybe I'll catch it when its released on capitalist home video, but not in a theater.


I watch those left wing commie movies all the time and they haven't change me any.

But to say that movies and books don't change people's perceptions and ideas about life is naive, because everything we learn whether it's good or bad for us does change us a little at the time.
America never use to be so liberal, socialistic and communistic as it is today, movies and television certainly had something to do with it. But the most affective way is the left leaning public school indoctrination.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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I thought McCarthy was dead...



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by gdeed
America never use to be so liberal, socialistic and communistic as it is today, movies and television certainly had something to do with it. But the most affective way is the left leaning public school indoctrination.


The hippie communes that were notable in the 1960s are either gone or so low key now that nobody ever hears about them. The USA has lurched right for decades and is only just now slowly moving left again. The USA is still a center-right nation and will likely remain that way for another century or two.

I don't deny that liberal beliefs may one day totally replace conservative ideals, but that's the way history has seen fit to work in recent centuries. Women are allowed to vote now and they used to not be. Minorities were treated poorly and that has mostly been rectified. As time goes on modern societies seem to slowly move left whether the citizens who live in it like it or not.

The religious far-right, which I'm sure is what you're looking for the USA to emulate, has tried for years to dominate the American way of life, but has been unraveling lately. That is the only thing that is particularly different from 30 years ago and today.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by gdeed

Originally posted by andrewh7
We killed more Native Americans than Hitler killed Jews in the Holocaust! At least tens of millions killed by massacres and disease.


Speak for yourself, the vast majority of Americans came to America in the twenty century and didn't kill or enslave anyone! Distorting history to push your own agenda, that's what left-wingers are.



I didn't distort anything. I responding to a post about Americans being unjustifiably portrayed as people who would steal land and resources from a native population. My point was that we have done this before. That is a fact. Burying your head in the sand is not going to change history. The origin of this country is never going to change and it is something that should be remembered and learned from so that we don't make the same mistakes again. Every American, regardless of when they came to this country, is part of a shared legacy. I didn't fight in world war II or the revolutionary war - should I not learn that history? "Left wingers" educate themselves and cite factual support for their claims. Neocons rely on fear, hatred, and ignorance to forward their agenda.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 08:22 PM
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I think it is best that you take the directors opinion out of it. Go watch it, without a bias. Just take it in. If this movie fails to move you. If you can watch it and be proud of the people that have oppressed and continue to oppress; you are sick.

I watched the movie, and saw many differents races, and many different nations. I would say that the world as a whole has behaved that way from time to time. We need to remember we are all equally capable of gross atrocities. As we are equally capable of saintly acts.

Take the Communist propaganda out of it and the movie still has a great message to provide.

By the way, it's "The Corporation." Nay is it the United States.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by Frith
 


Am I mistaken when I am thinking a county with conservative only ideas without dissention would be very similiar to communism?



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by Frith
The religious far-right, which I'm sure is what you're looking for the USA to emulate, has tried for years to dominate the American way of life, but has been unraveling lately. That is the only thing that is particularly different from 30 years ago and today.


The religious right is more in bed with the left crowd now days. Some churches are even telling their flock to “not” buy into the Christmas commercialism. That's communism!


I guess there aren't enough people on the unemployment line so we should boycott Christmas and put millions more out of work.


That's leftwing/rightwing compassion for you.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by andrewh7
"Left wingers" educate themselves and cite factual support for their claims.




Neocons rely on fear, hatred, and ignorance to forward their agenda.


I'm not a neocon. But fear, hatred and ingnorance or communist trademarks.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
He might not say he is Communist, he claims to be Liberal, but he is a Communist sorry to say.


If possible, try not to be so one-dimensional in your thinking. Distaste for capitalism does not automatically make one a communist as if those were the only two theories of economics in existence. Taste the rainbow.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 02:37 AM
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It is absolutely pointless to argue the idea that one form of government is any better than another. Capitalism is no better than Communism and Communism is no better than capitalism. Now I know that practically none of you actually believe this, however, all of you know within your heart that it is true. I will explain why it is true if your brain needs some convincing that your heart is right.

Firstly, you have to understand that there are no new ideas in government. I know you don't want to believe this, however, the governing of human existence is as old as human existence itself. In history, all methods of governance have been tried, and throughout history, they have all been tried over and over again. Now I know that you all ready know this, but you may not realize it fully, so, I will go on a little further.

Every government goes through good times and bad times. The history books rarely accurately reflect how good the good times really were, and how bad the bad times really were. As well, each generation romanticizes whatever events or ideals from history that their current situation makes most relevant.

The emotional human condition makes it almost impossible to view history clearly. Each and every one of use views history either through muddy waters or rose colored glasses. This is the reason why mistakes of the past are always repeated given a long enough time frame. It is said that the only constant in the universe is change. However, if change is a constant, and every action has an opposite and equal reaction, then history repeating itself must also be a constant.

The reason that no form of government is better than any other is because the rules of government are always broken. There is no true form of any one type of government. Each country, no matter what form of government they have, operates out of necessity a perverted and bastardized grandchild of the original governmental system that was adopted. It is because history repeats itself that all governments fail their populaces eventually.

When we view America, China, Russia, or the EU at any given moment, we can see some of the merits of each country and many of the flaws. However, do not let your passions and emotions drive you to falsely believe that any one governmental system is better than any other by only viewing a single moment of history as your experimental case. All governments fail and are created again anew in altered forms to adjust for the times in which they are used. Some ideas are removed, and some added, but none of them are new and no grouping of them can be perfect because we ourselves are not perfect.

We must not look at governmental systems as being above human flaws. Instead, it it best to view them as if they are not only identical to all human flaws, but as well, beneath and incapable of most human virtues. All governments are not “as” flawed as those who run them, instead, they are worse because they exist still with the flaws of others who have left their flawed changes to the previous system. These flawed constraints often prevent, by the law itself, noble humans from achieving their virtuous goals within government. This is why government itself is often called "A necessary evil."

In conclusion, try not to argue with your fellow man that one form of government is better than another. Instead, simply acknowledge whatever faults or triumphs are being made in your times and work to correct the faults and to promote the triumphs.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Hot_Wings]



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