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Healthcare Reform Completely Reckless, Completely Irresponsible

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posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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Here we go again with Obama's promise to keep the healthcare reform debate in the open for all to see, read and scrutinize. The following is directly from Mitch McConnell.


this bill has become a political nightmare for them.

“They know Americans overwhelmingly oppose it, so they want to get it over with.

“Americans are already outraged at the fact that Democrat leaders took their eyes off the ball. Rushing the process on a partisan line makes the situation even worse.

“Americans were told the purpose of reform was to reduce the cost of health care.

“Instead, Democrat leaders produced a $2.5 trillion, 2,074-page monstrosity that vastly expands government, raises taxes, raises premiums, and wrecks Medicare.

“And they want to rush this bill through by Christmas — one of the most significant, far-reaching pieces of legislation in U.S. history. They want to rush it.



‘And here’s the most outrageous part: at the end of this rush, they want us to vote on a bill that no one outside the Majority Leader’s conference room has even seen. That’s right. The final bill we’ll vote on isn’t even the one we’ve had on the floor. It’s the deal Democrat leaders have been trying to work out in private’


This is what they want to vote on before Christmas!!

Senator McConnell puts this whole fiasco into glaring perspective.


“But let’s just compare the process so far with previous legislation for some perspective. Here’s a snapshot of what we’ve done and where we stand:

• The Majority Leader intends to bring this debate to a close as early as this weekend — four days from now, on this $2.5 trillion dollar mistake

• No American who hasn’t been invited into the Majority Leader’s conference room knows what will be in that bill

• This bill has been the pending business of the Senate since the last week of November — less than four weeks ago.

• We started the amendment process two weeks ago.

• We’ve had 21 amendments and motions — less than two a day.

“Now let’s look at how the Senate has dealt with previous legislation.

“No Child Left Behind (2001):

• 21 session days or 7 weeks.

• Roll Call votes: 44

• Number of Amendments offered: 157

“9/11 Commission/Homeland Security Act (2002):

• 19 session days over 7 weeks.

• Roll Call votes: 20

• Number of Amendments offered: 30

“Energy Bill (2002):

• 21 session days over 8 weeks

• Number of Roll Call votes: 36

• Number of Amendments offered: 158


Why the rush with such a massive piece of legislation that is poised to change our lives in ways that we never thought were possible???


mcconnell.senate.gov...




posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by jibeho
 


Damn.

That is bleak. I really feel bad for America. So many times has this been the case with very IMPORTANT legislation.

It's great too. They sell it as "we can't afford to wait" what they never say behind is "cause we wanna spend more money..NOW!".

Good luck my friends, Healthcare in this sort of form will end your country. At the very least it's economy and there isn't much left of that presently.

~Keeper



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


"Healthcare in this sort of form will end your country"

really, well i see someone payed attention at the fear mongering conference. You know theres a great deal of people who think opposite of you are they wrong? Perhaps you are right perhaps you are wrong all you can do is make your own opinion based on all the information you have.

Do you have all the information from both sides? or have you made up your mind on the topic and chose to read articles solely from that side?

Search for truth.........unless it involves work.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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There is a lot of certainty going around about something we have little to information about (solid info at least).

You listen to the Reps and their mouthpieces:
- Americans hate government intrusion and love the private sector
- Americans mostly oppose this bill
- This bill will bankrupt us

You listen to the Dems and their mouthpieces:
- This is a civil and human rights issue
- This "isn't perfect" but will go a long way to making our lives much better
- It won't cost that much.

This is a circular debate until we can actually get our hands on a copy of the legislation that is even reasonably close to what the final product might be.

Personally, I hate the American political and social climate. It's toxic and generally misleading on all fronts.

One thing you will never hear asked about (that I know of) or is ever mentioned by almost any government official:

"What is the Constitutional basis for their ability to provide, fund, or offer and form of health care?"

[edit on 17-12-2009 by KrazyJethro]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Hack28
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


"Healthcare in this sort of form will end your country"

really, well i see someone payed attention at the fear mongering conference. You know theres a great deal of people who think opposite of you are they wrong? Perhaps you are right perhaps you are wrong all you can do is make your own opinion based on all the information you have.

Do you have all the information from both sides? or have you made up your mind on the topic and chose to read articles solely from that side?

Search for truth.........unless it involves work.


Do you have anything to say on the facts of the subject or are you just going to question people's motives? Reread you post. It doesn't say anything.
The fact that western governments from America to Europe are in a frenzy expanding the power and cashflow that they wield is indisputable. If the bill comes out the same as it went in i'll be extremely surprised.
I too am a canadian and I cringe because in the back of my mind I think our time is coming.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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Most of the people I know already have health insurance. Why fix what clearly ain't broke? If they don't have insurance tell them to get a job and stop looking for government bailouts.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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The majority of the people who don't favor the current proposals would gladly agree to improvements within our system. We just have to take it step by step. This all or nothing mentality is troubling to the majority of Americans.

Now we are dealing with more threats from Obama saying that if this fabricated problem with healthcare is not fixed the nation will go broke. How? We still don't know how this will be paid for or what will be sacrificed to support this program.

What will our govt. do when there are not enough doctors to fulfill the need any longer? Doctors will most certainly leave the field once they get a taste of this medicine. Perhaps they plan to import Chinese doctors to fill the massive void that will be created by this legislation.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by jibeho]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by jtma508
Most of the people I know already have health insurance. Why fix what clearly ain't broke? If they don't have insurance tell them to get a job and stop looking for government bailouts.


Are you kidding me?

That's easy to say, far harder to do. This is not a realistic thought, or constructive in any way. I'm wondering why you even bothered saying it at all.

I will take every dime I can from the government and give it as little as possible until the day they end these social programs (which I hope will be soon).

Our entire system is broken badly, caused (in large part) by the government itself.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by jtma508
Most of the people I know already have health insurance. Why fix what clearly ain't broke? If they don't have insurance tell them to get a job and stop looking for government bailouts.


I agree to a certain extent. There are people that are truly disabled, and unable to work. I may well become one soon.

I am already disabled, but have been working so far for 4 years since being eligible for government disability. My reason? I wish to work as long as possible, because my work benefits are much better than government ones. Not to mention, my pride. I simply refuse the disabled label, until I can literally be of no use to anyone. Right now, I am of use, I have a job, and I am well liked at my job, and I do it well.

I will work until I no longer can, but I may still well resist the government teat as long as possible, because I know what my end will be.

Medicare leaves a 20% co pay, and flat out denies coverage on a multitude of things. Based on that, I would be spending far more than I would bring in on disability.

A lot of people do not know that for every year you work, you gain credits for your disability and/or Social Security benefits. How long you work determines how much you will make in payments, and you can get a statement from the SSA showing what your current credits are.

At the rate things are going, though, those benefits will most likely not even be there by the time I am fully disabled. As I continue to work, I continue to contribute to my 401 plan.

It is not feasable now, nor would it be even with "government assistance".

They are not moving to really *do* anything for the people, but to force them into an insurance policy provided by the government in a ploy to drive insurance companies out of business. They see it is a a money making market they need to take over, just like the other ones they have taken.

They are doing nothing towards tort reform, they are doing nothing to stem the actual cost of healthcare. If anything, this will drive the costs up, not the reverse.

Let us not forget also, that if this goes into effect, we will be paying more taxes on top of what we already pay for Medicare/Medicaid, and will see no health care for the poor for 5 years.

Ineed, the rush is simply to take over, and for all the pork spending included in this monstrosity that very little is known about.


[edit on 17-12-2009 by Libertygal]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 


The public option is gone, is not longer a choice for the people but rammed up private insurance, the clause to allow Medicare to be lowered to 55 is also death, this is what we are going to get.


1- Congress may pass a health care bill that would help insurance CEOs making $10 million a year spend a generation raising premiums even further, while certain senators who take their money work to defeat a public option that would serve the nation and lower the deficit and that is supported by a majority of the people.

2- Drug companies that concluded a secret deal with the White House to raise drug prices by almost 10 percent work to defeat proposals to allow import of lower-priced drugs that would serve the consumer and lower the deficit, and that are supported by a majority of the people.


As you see this is the biggest win for the fat cats in Washington at our expenses, the whole health care bill was nothing but hoax is a pay off for private insurance and big pharma.

People has not waken up to the reality of the monstrosity that is been concocted at our expenses.

I knew about this whole joke from the beginning.

www.opednews.com...

The fats cats are running the nation and our government and we all allowing them to do it



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 



Hi marg, nice to see (read) you again


I do not think the public option is dead. The bill that is floating around right now is not the bill we will end up with. Pelosi has stated a multitude of times, she will not accept anything but a public option, and she has proven she usually gets what she wants.

The real bill is still hidden, and regardless of what bill goes through the senate, it has to go back to the house. This is where the public option will be put back in, you mark my words on this.

Anything that passes *will* have a public option in it. They just have to come to terms with what they call it. It will be a public option, but it may be called a co-op, or a trigger, or goodness knows what else, but it will be there in the end. It is their goal.

*IF* perchance, a bill goes through without it, it will be added in within less than a year. This is why now you are hearing people say, "Just pass it as it is now! You have the door open to do more later!" They realize now once the deed is done, they can work it later to hold anything else they want.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 


While I know you are hopeful of the public option, I am not, why? because is too many close doors meeting between the fat cats and our once for the people government, remember the bills in congress are all coming from the same sources the fat cats and their hoard of lobbyist lawyers.

We stand no chance and to add more injury to the wound this will drag for political game.



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