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What are the criteria for "extinct peoples", and why do they resurface?

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posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 11:38 PM
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Most people who've ever done an anthropology course in the last 4 decades will have heard of extinct peoples. At least 2 decades ago it was assumed that people were made not just culturally, but racially extinct during colonialization. The term "extinct peoples" was often found appended to "extinct animals". Some of the historical cases that always fascinated me were the Jaghan and Ona (Firelanders), the Cape Khoisan, and the Tasmanian aborigines.
In the 1970s and much of the 1980s the extinction of these peoples was a set fact. Now the Firelanders are "probably" extint (they interviewed one on the Travel Channel), and the Khoisan and Tasmanians are reliving mixed-blood revival. Yet, (apart from one !Xam woman) nobody speaks the language or knows much of the culture.
So how can peoples be "extinct" and suddenly reappear? Perhaps there are monetary and other rewards? It seems identities are dropped and assumed for ulterior motives.
The Pequot tribe were apparently down to 20 people and now have several hundred members, after the US Indian Gambling Acts were passed.
What is worse is that several self-styled Khoi chiefs have appeared in the Western Cape, often each decrying the other as a fake.
In Tasmania the more indeginous Lia Pootah are in conflict with the off-shore Palawa:

"The Palawa is constantly telling the world at large that we are white and only pretending to be Aboriginal. That the Palawa want this to be the truth does not make it a fact. Even by denying Lia Pootah people the right to vote in elections, access services set up for the Tasmanian Aboriginal community, and forcing ignorant white bureaucrats to initiate policies that exclude us will not stop us being who we are.

Palawa enforcement of racist discriminatory polices along the lines of Neo Nazi fanaticism will never remove who we are. This situation is allowed to exist by the Tasmanian Government and Councils despite the fact that we have validated our heritage by using the documentary evidence through the courts. Some of our community has been through the courts twice, or three times. We have one member who has had their Aboriginality verified at a ministerial level. Other members have Aboriginal passports which are now not accepted. We all have a multitude of paper proclaiming our Aboriginal heritage that is recognised in every state in Australia but not in Tasmania the land of our birth.

Lia Pootah, made helpless by Palawa lies, watch as Palawa are given control of our ancestral land, determine who can access it and create friction and hatred between the Aboriginal people and the broader community." (www.tasmanianaboriginal.com.au...)

So when are a people really extinct? Can any of these claims be taken at face value?





[edit on 16-12-2009 by halfoldman]

[edit on 17-12-2009 by halfoldman]




posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


The Moriori of the Chatham Islands and NZ were made extinct by the simple fact of warfare.

There are probably a lot of people with Moriori blood, and maybe a few still left in the Chathams, but I believe no full-blooded Moriori exist, and I don't think many, or even any, of full Maori blood.

But I think if something is extinct, they cannot rise from the ashes.

Maybe these people who appear to do so are mere opportunists.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by TaraLou
reply to post by halfoldman
 


The Moriori of the Chatham Islands and NZ were made extinct by the simple fact of warfare.

There are probably a lot of people with Moriori blood, and maybe a few still left in the Chathams, but I believe no full-blooded Moriori exist, and I don't think many, or even any, of full Maori blood.

But I think if something is extinct, they cannot rise from the ashes.

Maybe these people who appear to do so are mere opportunists.

Thanks for bringing up the Moriori! What a unique history and I posted a thread on this from a different angle: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Yet, while researching this I noticed several Moriori descendants.
Perhaps the law once made people "black and inferior" by 1/8th (octogoon)ancestry, which once defined black slavery, and Eugenics considered it the ideal border for "breeding out" the native minorities.
On the other hand, if "purity" of race defined sentiment about background, then many white, or European looking people would also be frauds.
In the past people posed as white, or lighter skin mixed-race, and such native ancestry was hidden.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


Can I ask if you are a NZer?

Because I have a bit to add here about the Moriori.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by TaraLou
 

Funny, when I was in school we were taught of these "extinct" races (although I saw "coloured" people with Khoisan features every day).
Once I had to give a speech on the Romans, and the teacher asked me what happened to them? I didn't know what to say.
Later people said: "All Romans were Italians, but not all Italians are Romans".
Go figure: so are the Celtic, Germanic, Gothic tribes extinct?
What about the race of the Egyptians, pre-diaspora Jews, ancient Greeks and Babylonians? Are they "extinct"?
Modern Africanists claim sub-Saharan blacks founded all these civilizations. However, although certain Egyptian dynasties and many many important men were black, the race was not black African. So what were they?
Who were the Guanche on the Canary Islands - perhaps the first victims of Spanish colonialism?



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by TaraLou
 

No, I'm a white South African.
Please do add on the Moriori, where-ever you choose.
I think they are examples of such complexity in lifestyle extinction, and I've only become aware of these debates in the Oceanic region recently.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


So why are you so interested?

They were the original red-haired race, the original people of NZ - the other thing I was going to say will probably get me banned, so I won't.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by TaraLou
 

I didn't know one had to be a "certain way" to be interested in ethnology?
I was fascinated by these issues since I was a kid (don't know why, didn't always go down well the way society was back then).
But now that I've gotten my degrees, and also very interested in new constructions of identity, eg. gay, HIV-poz identity, I think I could discuss my interest without immediate suspicions that I'm a racist or so forth.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by TaraLou
reply to post by halfoldman
 


So why are you so interested?

They were the original red-haired race, the original people of NZ - the other thing I was going to say will probably get me banned, so I won't.

I wasn't quite sure how to take that post, but are you perhaps referring to "Celtic" remains supposedly found in the Pacific and elsewhere?
Unless you use expletives against somebody or insult them personally, you will not get banned here.
If this was the intention (to prove a red-haired celtic type race as proto-Maori) that would be very interesting.
I recently saw a 10 000 BC program which showed the first people in America as whites with beards! (apparently there was an alternative land-bridge between Europe and America). There's limited proof, and it claims this culture became extinct and was replaced by the ancestors of modern Indians. What is clear is that we know little of the actual peopling of the world.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


Hi,

No, I am not saying this or that - I am merely interested in what you are saying.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by TaraLou
 

Or one should consider the Rapa Nui on Easter Island.
They have a huge movement to support cultural survival, or rather revival.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 04:12 AM
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Well, this also happens with animal and plant species. To err is human. It is easy to overlook the last remnants of a species or a culture. Scientists search in the wrong places, fail to conduct their research thoroughly or are simply unlucky. Years later the label “extinct” has to be changed to “rediscovered”.

Life After Death - some species thought to be extinct are being rediscovered
findarticles.com...



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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Well coming from someone who is on the endangered species list I can tell you the criteria for being extinct.....
1.THERE ARE NONE OF YOU LEFT
2.NONE OF YOUR CULTURE LEFT

I am one of the few full blooded American Indians I know. I am even more rare being my blood comes from just one tribe. It is hard enough to find another Indian that is just Indian and not part black/mexica/asian/white.

And our culture has been lost to black culture, as it is seen as more favorable to act black than to act white instead of acting like an Indian... if that makes any sense. Many have not seen but they have become bangers. They do not live in concete jungles or have seen with their own eye places like Compton or watts or Inglewoood but through Rap and mives along with BET they sure act the part. But act as if that is where they were hatched. If not for BET I dont think they would have any contact with the outside world. As they are the majority they are what is constituted as "NATIVE". They cant tell you how to live without running water or electricity or their customs and speak little or none of thier language. They do not even know who Geranimo is or Crazy Horse... but hey sure know who Beyonce and Lil Wayne are.

Our Pow Wow culture is a slow second to the black culture, and is followed by the other half of Indians. Little do they know that was created in a boarding school in the 50 as a presentation that became an annual event. I am not from the Northern Plains, were the practice started, yet many Indians dance the beat of a drum that is not one of thier own people. Youth circle the Pow Wow grounds looking for a party, and only compete in dancing competitions to get women or drink money. Only the old one watch the dancing, everyone else is looking for a party Which makes no sense becasue to enter the harbour and dance you cant drink alcohol becasue you are SUPPOSED to be a traditionalist??????????

Although we do have living Indians... from my observations we are already extinct.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Hopllyte
 

A fascinating post, that raises many questions on culture and how it is constructed and reconstructed.
Some of the issues, like the dominance of English and the spread of "gangsta" culture are complaints one also hears in South Africa. Conservative people are constantly complaining about the corruption of their languages by English loanwords, and these are major European languages, like German. So it is not surprising that every year languages become extinct. The disappearance of global diversity is really sad.
I think most cultures have an element they believe to be unique to themselves, which actually came from elsewhere. I recently found out that Afrikaans folk dancing actually came from Sweden in the 1950s, and we always had this notion of people dancing like that in the 1700's. Even worse, the Germans learnt beer-making from the French! How far back must one go to be a traditionalist? The 19th century? Before the Spaniards brought horses?
What matters to me here is that you prove that the identity of your people still exists, and even if just amongst a few individuals, it will persist beyond the current fashion crazes.
Culture is dynamic, and as long as it supports identity and group cohesion it's serving a positive function.




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