Russians confirm that UK scientists manipulated data to exaggerate global warming

reply to post by heyo



As I said, doesnt matter which side of the fence you sit on, becareful what you believe and read, of course there was monetary motive behind the leaking of climatgate so close to Copenhagen, its good old espionage tactic clear as day.
They just all use different badges to make money.

Just saying be careful with who you put your faith in is all peeps




[edit on 18-12-2009 by zazzafrazz]

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by heyo

 

As I said, doesnt matter which side of the fence you sit on, becareful what you believe and read, of course there was monetary motive behind the leaking of climatgate so close to Copenhagen, its good old espionage tactic clear as day.
They just all use different badges to make money.

Just saying be careful with who you put your faith in is all peeps

[edit on 18-12-2009 by zazzafrazz]

Mind, you, all "climategate" was was

* the leaking of ACTUAL emails
* ACTUAL emails from scientists heavily involved in influencing IPCC decision making


There was no falsification, just exposure of bona fide comments from people who are well up the food chain in the AGW thrap fest.


What I find more disconcerting was the extreme announcements on the pro AGW side at the start of the conference, re hottest decade ever, ice caps disappearing etc

Originally posted by heyo
reply to post by maybereal11

 

You basically said I could stick with whatever opinion fits my world view. You then said you, on the other hand would, would vet the science. I'd be interested to see the science that shows CO2 is the cause of temperature rise. Honestly.

I would make the case that INCREASED CO2 (beyond what the planet would produce absent the sourcing and burning of ancient fossil fuel reserves that have been stored from eons ago) is ONE of the factors causing temperature rises beyond what the natural system would typically produce.

CO2 is good and neccessary for the maintenance of a given temperature on our planet.

CO2 is naturally circulated regulated within the system to maintain the temperature that our current civilization has evolved in.

Tapping into ancient reserves and injecting that CO2 into the system elevates the CO2 beyond what nature would create otherwise.

This will not "destroy" the earth at all...but it will increase temperatures and human civilization is more fragile than we think.

We should not expect the planet to maintain the temperature that is best suited for us humans...nature doesn't care...Tsunamies, Hurricanes, Tornados...nature isn't thinking about mankind first.

Nature does alter temperatures...but slowly...typically on a scale we can adapt to...injecting additional CO2 into the system...beyond the natural levels that would exist absent drilling and adding fossil fuel CO2 from the past....accelerates temperature increases.

How?

Imagine your house as a perfectly insulated entitiy.

You have vents in your attic that allow heat to escape that are relatively small in comparison to the rest of the house and all of the well insulated walls and roof etc.

CO2 is a strong determinate of the size of those vents.

The more CO2...the smaller the vents...
less CO2 and the vents are larger...

If the vents were gigantic...Not enough CO2..too much heat escapes and the house is freezing..

If the vents are too small...the house gets too hot and wet...mold etc. Or in the case of the earth...species migration...melting glaciers..ocean acidification...rising sea levels...all happening at a pace that would not happen without us adding more CO2.

Nature has systems in place to create and circulate CO2 which keep those vents the right size to keep our temperatures at a "natural" level....and when those vents grow or shrink they are done gradually by nature over a very long period of time.

How does CO2 function as a vent? Heat from the earth (Albedo) radiates outward in the Infra-red spectrum...water (H20) in the atomosphere serves as a great insulator and keeps a good deal of that heat from escaping into space.

Nature's genius is that in the IR Spectrum (Heat from earth) there is a window of wavelength where water (H20) does not stop the heat from escaping. It is a window or vent that heat can escape through...and CO2 DOES cover that small window....this is the "attic vent"...so the more CO2 we put into the system..this vent shrinks.

So yes..the planet will get hotter..some crops will improve...other regions will see severe droughts or increased rainfall, flooding, potentially more eratic weather.

Honestly I think the Midwestern US might do Okay...but the coasts, Hawaii, Alaska etc. those regions are going to get hit hard...island nations are going to shrink...all types of craziness around the world in ecosystems that aren't suited well for quickly rising temps.

These are predictions that may or may not happen, but that is what the science predicts...so we can do something now or roll the dice and see if the scientists were wrong somehow. Climate policy is premised on the idea that the science is strong enough where they feel there is more risk to waiting and dealing with the consequences than to acting now.

Personally I believe nature to be infinitely smarter than man.
I also don't think history shows that "nature" has any particular love or preference for mankind as a species.
The earth will be fine...us however...not so much. We will not be able to adapt quickly enough.

If the attic vent is set to a current level...then we should respect natures wisdom in that choice and not close that attic vent with CO2 and other GHGs and somehow just assume nature will look out for mankind...she won't.

Here is a rough explanation of the attic window along with a graph showing the "attic vent". The window wher H2O doesn't stop escaping heat, but CO2 and other ghg do.

www.bwebcentral.com...


[edit on 21-12-2009 by maybereal11]

Well if you cant beat em, join em, So alrighty then. GLOBAL WARMING IS A SHAM !!!!. there, I said it. All the events we have been exposed to have all been illusions(Thank you Mr Copperfield).

reply to post by maybereal11


Another poster mentioning rising sea levels.

I'm probably going to get a warning from the mods but I'm gonna say it again, because very very few members have picked up on this yet....... but SEA LEVELS HAVE NOT RISEN AT ALL.

And... for anyone who is interested the reason that sea might rise is not because of melting ice, but because of global warming. The sea when heated like anything else that is heated will expand in size. Therefore IF we had global warming then yes the sea level would rise. But the sea level has not risen at all, even with added melt water, so therefore by definition we do not have global warming.

Go figure.

reply to post by bigyin


...and where is your source of information that supports that?

Because it's a fact that sea levels have been rising a steady rate every single year.

Current sea level rise has occurred at a mean rate of 1.8 mm per year for the past century,[1][2] and more recently at rates estimated near 2.8 ± 0.4[3] to 3.1 ± 0.7[4] mm per year (1993-2003).

Source 1

Source 2

Source 3

Source 4 PDF


The sad part of this topic is that GW was not "discovered" by watching Earths temperature rise around the world. GW was "discovered" by watching the CO2 levels of Earth rise, and studying the effect that may have on Earth's atmosphere which controls the temperature.

Nobody can prove that CO2 levels are not rising, because it's the truth... CO2 levels are rising. That WILL effect the atmopshere and temperature. The only problem is when and how, not if.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by maybereal11

 

Another poster mentioning rising sea levels.

I'm probably going to get a warning from the mods but I'm gonna say it again, because very very few members have picked up on this yet....... but SEA LEVELS HAVE NOT RISEN AT ALL.

First off...why would the Mods give you a warning for saying sea levels haven't risen?

Secondly...SOURCES? I can tell you that the moon is inhabited by elves. My statement has all the veracity of yours absent any links, sources, material that back up my claim.

For example...

en.wikipedia.org...
In 1995, half of Bhola Island in Bangladesh became permanently flooded, leaving 500,000 people homeless. The Bhola Islanders have been described as some of the world's first climate refugees.

In 2007, a Bangladeshi scientist stated: "We're already seeing hundreds of thousands of climate refugees moving into slums in Dhaka."[17] These refugees were fleeing flooded coastal areas.

The inhabitants of the Carteret Islands in Papua New Guinea are also among the first climate refugees due to sea level rise attributed to global warming and climate change

In Alaska, the village of Shishmaref, located on the 100 km long barrier island of Sarichef, also faces evacuation

Current sea level rise has occurred at a mean rate of 1.8 mm per year for the past century, and more recently at rates estimated near 2.8 ± 0.4 to 3.1 ± 0.7 mm per year (1993-2003).

This has been scientifically verified by sattelites, data measurement around the world by hundreds of nations and organizations that have no part in the climate debate...they simply observe an accellerating rise in Sea Level...

www.springerlink.com...
www.informaworld.com...=all?content=10.1080/714044523
www.agu.org...

Now you can continue to state IN BIG BOLD LETTERS that sea levels haven't risen...but font size does not make it true. Actually observations do. Ditto with the earth revolving around the sun et al.



[edit on 22-12-2009 by maybereal11]

I may get a warning because I have said the same thing on other threads. I don't know what the rules are about repeating oneself.

I might get away with it.

Regarding the scientific data about sea levels, as I have stated on other threads I dont pay any attention to any scientific data regarding gw.... in my opinion it is all fixed.

Instead I prefer to trust my own observations.

I live by the sea and in the past 40 years the level has not gone up.

If anything it has gone down.

I can produce scientific reports which back me up on this simple observation but having just said I dont pay any heed to scientific data, that would be a daft thing to do.

I would ask anyone who has any interest in this to consider the following:

things that could make the sea level rise:

1. Melting ice
2. Soil erosion by rain, washed into the sea by rivers and coastal erosion.
3. Land reclamation and man made islands.
4. Man made objects placed in the sea, ships, boats, buoys, oil rigs, concrete piers, walls, bridge pilons.
5. Material from space landing in the sea, meterorites.
6. Deforestation resulting in rain water running straight off to sea, instead of being taken up by plants.
7. Magma from undersea volcanic eruptions.

All of the above we know takes place, so the sea will rise due these factors.

However if we had global warming the sea would also rise due to expansion.

Since my observations show zero sea rise in 40 years, I can only assume we do not have global warming. If anything the temperature must be dropping to compensate for the other factors.


[edit on 22-12-2009 by bigyin]

reply to post by bigyin



Hey bigyin you aint gonna get a warning for stating what you believe ! I believe GW is hogwash end of ! And before anyone screams prove it....No !

Originally posted by bigyin

Regarding the scientific data about sea levels, as I have stated on other threads I dont pay any attention to any scientific data regarding gw.... [edit on 22-12-2009 by bigyin]

Nuff' said.
I suspect you are not alone amongst the denier camp in this view.

If you can't see it out your window...it didn't happen.

Since science doesn't count with you...I don't think we have much to talk about.

FYI - I know it looks that way from your window...but the earth isn't flat either.

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by bigyin

Regarding the scientific data about sea levels, as I have stated on other threads I dont pay any attention to any scientific data regarding gw.... [edit on 22-12-2009 by bigyin]

Nuff' said.
I suspect you are not alone amongst the denier camp in this view.

If you can't see it out your window...it didn't happen.

Since science doesn't count with you...I don't think we have much to talk about.

FYI - I know it looks that way from your window...but the earth isn't flat either.

No problem mate.

How can I tell a real window from a virtual one ?

reply to post by henriquefd


I personally think the whole global warming nonsense is a scam and a ploy by the elite for more power and money. All of the idiot leaders who push this agenda are major hypocrites. I think you have got this right. We are suppose to be stewards of this planet. One thing we should have in place is a huge push for recycling materials. Who would be against clean air and water? Well maybe the Communist Chinese. They are poisoning their own people with the pollution of their air and waterways that make the industrial revolution in the USA look mild.

If done properly it can work without harming the world's economies. The plan in place now is a joke.