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How to WAKE people UP!

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posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by juzchilln
 


No one lives in the past and no one lives in the future, we all live in the now. I agree, there is no such thing as time or that such an aspect hasn't been discovered as of yet.

Yet, telling people to live only for now is detrimental to our well being. We learn from the past today so that we never make the same mistakes tomorrow. If you live for just now, never looking back and never planning for a better tomorrow, then what's the point of it all?



What's the point of it all?

To experience YOU. The illusion of life and all of it's suffering permits Consciousness to experience it's Self through you to YOU. That is the point. None other and no more.

Just this...




posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by bvproductions
There is no time.

Every moment in simply occurs in the present.
A constantly changing, forward-flowing moment... creating and destroying... on and on and on.

Seconds, minutes, hours... they are all an illusion.


What then do our records of the past (history books, fossils, family ancestries, etc...) represent?

If the past is an illusion, how do these records fit in with the NOW of your understanding?

Are you suggesting that the past never happened?



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by SmokeJaguar67
 


I had a similar struggle to get some of my friends to see the Truth, but they will learn in their own time and experience it themselves instead of us taking away the book they read and replacing it with another.

My awakening has been a very wiggly path because as a child I never believed what I saw anyway. Even to this day I have to stare at a light a few times before I "believe" that it's actually turned off.

Sometimes, I look at a light and see if it's bright, then I see if it casts any shadow if it doesn't I will check the controls to make sure it is off. Even then I can't completely belief that it is off. Sometimes my mind sees it On but my eyes are telling it a different story.

Maybe I'm seeing both realities, both polarities to everything. It's even gotten so bad that I can logically explain one thing and then turn around and logically explain the opposite. There was a time in my life where I didn't know which way was up....then I realized.

There is no need for all this believing....I just had to BE. When you ARE everything IS well...because it is!

It's almost impossible to avoid that type of speaking.!! I'm lost but I'm finding my way too....so I'm bound to mess up my words and logics...I'm only human. hehe



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by juzchilln
 


No one lives in the past and no one lives in the future, we all live in the now. I agree, there is no such thing as time or that such an aspect hasn't been discovered as of yet.

Yet, telling people to live only for now is detrimental to our well being. We learn from the past today so that we never make the same mistakes tomorrow. If you live for just now, never looking back and never planning for a better tomorrow, then what's the point of it all?



You're correct with everything you said. However, I completely acknowledge the importance of interpreting experiences and using that wisdom to understand or manifest circumstances. No problem with that at all.

That's why I wanted to make sure that everyone understood that I am talking about the concept of time. In other words, I'm not talking about the importance of knowledge gained from experiences.




[edit on 16-12-2009 by juzchilln]



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by GoneGrey

Originally posted by bvproductions
There is no time.

Every moment in simply occurs in the present.
A constantly changing, forward-flowing moment... creating and destroying... on and on and on.

Seconds, minutes, hours... they are all an illusion.


What then do our records of the past (history books, fossils, family ancestries, etc...) represent?

If the past is an illusion, how do these records fit in with the NOW of your understanding?

Are you suggesting that the past never happened?



Excellent question because I thought of that myself! Fossils are bones that still ARE. The rest of the animal ISN'T. Yes, they did roam the earh from moment to moment, until they finally did not roam the earth. SO in that respect, it's perfectly reasonable to put a linear reference on certain aspects of our existence to help us gain perspective. But we're time stamping it. We're placing all events of our world onto a common chronology that interlinks and connects everything. But this should only be used to gain understanding of sequences of events. It isn't our actual world we should be LIVING in.

There's a difference between understanding the existence of something using linear references AND spending your mental energy existing in that reference. The reference of time, is for understanding our 3 Dimensional universe, not for living in it.

So for me, it's proven that the closer you live to now, the closer to God and to clarity of thought you are. That's the whole purpose of mediation to focus your mind on Nothing so that you can just BE.

So yes, it's ok to use units of measurement to gain perspective on things that IS or WERE. But our minds should not live in anything other than the present. And I mean this second!!! not the next or the one before.

Difficult to do, of course. But it's should be our goal if we want to quicken the awakening process. IMHO

This conversation will eventually lead me to the end of my own understanding of this concept of time, but until then..I'll hang in there!

[edit on 16-12-2009 by juzchilln]

[edit on 16-12-2009 by juzchilln]



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
reply to post by juzchilln
 


I have to disagree with what seems to be your insinuation that yesterday and tomorrow do not matter. (if that is not what you are saying..then I guess this post doesnt matter)

I feel they do very much so.

Firstly, I would like to throw this quote out there "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." If I could remember who said it originally I would give proper credit, but I think if any statement ever was proven to be the most true, this would be it.

You seem to say that we should just forget about the past. It's not now. I believe that is a selfish way to think. I do not believe in dwelling on your past. Take this example, my girlfriend lost a friend she was close to in highschool, then they grew apart in their senior year and on into college. She spent three days beating herself up because she never "made things right" or "tried again". I simply told her that yes, she is very valid in feeling upset because of a missed opportunity, and that yes, she could have been the bigger person and just made the effort, but what can she do now other then learn to not do that again. She made what she feels to be a mistake. It's in the past. Rafiki is the wisest voice of reason in my book. "ITS IN THE PAST, you can either run from, or, leeeaaarrn from it." (swings at Simba who ducks, takes his staff throws it and runs off to save Pride Rock)

Which leads me to my point about the future. The future is not guaranteed. I can not be sure I will be around to finish this sentence. (phew...I still am) All I can do though is through what has happened before to me, and to others that I have learned about, make sure I do not make the same mistakes. Not hurt others how I have in the past. Make my existence a bit more pure each second, in the hope of being fully enlightened in the long run. No one is perfect, but we can all strive for perfection correctly once we learn how to. It's how Christians take the mantra of "Being Christ Like", no, they do not believe they will be on the level of their Messiah, but they can try as hard as they can to keep up.

I also do not think it is at all possible to live in the now. Because what is now is not what is now. What was when I began this post will never be again. Attempting to live "fully in the now" is an impossible task and I think a faulty way of living. But I will not keep on about that, as it is your view point and in the long run I know no more then you do.

But I will pose this question for you: If, by what you say, we are to live in the now, what is the purpose of what has happened before? What is the purpose of a continual existence?



I feel i had to reply to this so i will. First off you should come to understand impermanence, it basically defines that all things are forever changing. So how can anything be impossible? It cant. Facts arent facts, their the best possible opinion for that time period. Its good to see you atleast admit to knowing nothing, as it in my opinion allows you to be un-biased, enabling you to find the truth better. Another thing is that although the NOW is everything you can still think of past or future if it is needed for the current situation but the difference is that you should not over dwell on it or let it plague your mind.

Now to answer both your questions. I believe the past is just a good reference book so to say, and the other in my opinion would be to simply exist. That last question of yours made me think for a bit on how i would answer but i think its suffice, would you rather not exist?

The now is a beautiful place full of bliss if you can hold onto it =] that is the hard part, especially for these kids in the ( West ) granted I'm 19 and in the West too but I'm sure you catch my drift. For me to describe the now i'd say that it is like walking in heaven.


Edit: what is now is not now, oh really? The now is forever your just not being consciously aware of it. Your mind is caught up in bs, the past, the future, blah blah! I think this because your saying " what is now is not now" is thinking in the past. I also think society hipes all this spiritual stuff to be profound and requires hard work, It doesnt. Everything is as hard as you make it. Want to experience the now? Well this is what you do, just be aware. When your just being aware thats it, you should have zero thoughts, all your doing is being. At that point in my opinion everything becomes vibrantly alive as if your seeing the same scenary for the first time.

[edit on 16-12-2009 by 4stral4pprentice]

Edit2: see what i mean when society hipes spiritual stuff up? Before i made these edits i said " especially for these kids in the west." i am part of our society. So why did i say that? Because of past conditioning, like how people are conditioned in the west to care so much about bs, future, and the past by our media. But yet i am a sprout that has blossomed in the midst of it all, so i know anyone can acheive this state of being or anything for that matter. Just got to put your mind to it boys and girls.

Love and light to everyone, or should i say my self =]

[edit on 16-12-2009 by 4stral4pprentice]



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by redwoodjedi
What's the point of it all?

To experience YOU. The illusion of life and all of it's suffering permits Consciousness to experience it's Self through you to YOU. That is the point. None other and no more.

Just this...


Not to sound disrespectful, but whenever I settled upon answers like that, I found the realization anticlimactic. If that is the point, what's the point of that point? It goes around in circles. Why should there be a point, to experience? Really, that can't be it at all regardless of how many monks or philosophers may try to tell me so. In the case of monks I may cut them some slack here in that they may be just giving an answer that seems deep to the profane consciousness. For the philosophers, they seem to need to find a point they can cope with and allows them to believe their life's work wasn't all in vein.

Noone is experiencing anything at all, in that there is no experience happening and it is not an event. It is a pidgeonhole in infinity. Experience as commonly conceived is the non-alternative to no experience when ALL simply IS and IS NOT.

Boo!



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by EnlightenUp

Originally posted by redwoodjedi
What's the point of it all?

To experience YOU. The illusion of life and all of it's suffering permits Consciousness to experience it's Self through you to YOU. That is the point. None other and no more.

Just this...


Not to sound disrespectful, but whenever I settled upon answers like that, I found the realization anticlimactic. If that is the point, what's the point of that point? It goes around in circles. Why should there be a point, to experience? Really, that can't be it at all regardless of how many monks or philosophers may try to tell me so. In the case of monks I may cut them some slack here in that they may be just giving an answer that seems deep to the profane consciousness. For the philosophers, they seem to need to find a point they can cope with and allows them to believe their life's work wasn't all in vein.

Noone is experiencing anything at all, in that there is no experience happening and it is not an event. It is a pidgeonhole in infinity. Experience as commonly conceived is the non-alternative to no experience when ALL simply IS and IS NOT.

Boo!


Ahhh...

Sounds boring and pointless doesn't it? It's because the written word is contextually starved and doomed to convey only dualistic conceptualizations. Remember, re-member, law or seal number 4 that I posted previously; Nirvanna is beyond concepts. I assure you total bliss and saturating light is anything but boring.

Infinity sucks because it is a measurement of linear time and to be stuck temporally forever sounds wretched, arduous and tediously tormenting. Eternity...That is bliss. It is pure aware presence in the never ending now. There is freedom in it. Liberation. No death. No life. No pain. No separation.

There is only the empty beauty of the eternally full moment such as this...



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by redwoodjedi
Sounds boring and pointless doesn't it?


Indeed.


It's because the written word is contextually starved and doomed to convey only dualistic conceptualizations. Remember, re-member, law or seal number 4 that I posted previously;


Is "Nirvana" a dualistic conceptualization? I think I would say so since it implies things "not Nirvana".

BTW, seal 4? Scanned your thread posts again and didn't find that but it sounds somewhat apocalyptic!


Nirvanna is beyond concepts.


I'm convinced it's an experiential "root" much like even "red" in itself is beyond concepts. Concepts can only relate to it. They are not it. Nonetheless there are words for both. Only those who've experienced really know what the other means in when exchanging terms. Actually, these "qualia" are self unto itself thus are actually true, not illusion, thus void. I was lucky enough, or unlucky enough, to have been show how it actually works and I think I might be cracking up for it. I'm not sure if I want to forget it or plunge in all the way, at all times.


I assure you total bliss and saturating light is anything but boring.


I'm not sure how boredom would be relevent in this case.


Infinity sucks because it is a measurement of linear time and to be stuck temporally forever sounds wretched, arduous and tediously tormenting.


Infinity of all infinity can be completely imprisoning since there is indeed noowhere else to be, eh?


Eternity...That is bliss. It is pure aware presence in the never ending now. There is freedom in it. Liberation. No death. No life. No pain. No separation.


The opposite polarity. How grand it is!



There is only the empty beauty of the eternally full moment such as this...


I'm scared of that. No joke.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


Come on, buddy! Take the plunge. The water is fine. Because You are the water. Want me to hold your hand?




posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by redwoodjedi
reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


Come on, buddy! Take the plunge. The water is fine. Because You are the water. Want me to hold your hand?



How nice of you to make that post at 11:11!

Last night I was hearing in my head (but not in an audible way) some sort of call that sounded like a few entities trying to coax a scared animal to come over.

Rough translation from entit-ese: "C'mon. It's Ok. You'll be fine. Join us. We're waiting for you. ..."

Join US? Waiting?


Know anything about that?

So, um. Yeah, sometimes I'm a complete wuss. Infinity has a way of giving me ambivalent feelings. I was more cavalier until the cracks in the facade actually started appearing to me.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by bvproductions
 


that is why muslims suicid bomb themselves so they can go to heaves whti 26 virgins.
The problem is they are virgin sheep not girls.

btw what is the squar root of 69?







[edit on 17-12-2009 by fmcanarney]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


11:11! Weird



I honestly don't know anything about that but it sounds like some of the interesting material on another board here. Don't let it get to you. It's just an experience and you ain't that. In the long run, YOU are the Watcher. The Witness. Don't just let the facade crack. Take a damn hammer to it!! Death is fun!

Cheers and Grace



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 



By the way, nothing apocalyptic about the fourth seal or law discovered by The Buddha. I will post them again as I did on the first page for your convenience. These are the four irrefutable truths as discovered by Siddartha Gautam, The Buddha. In 2500 years plus since their discovery, no system of thought or process of investigation has yet to disprove them. I stress, he did not invent them or create them, he discovered them and they are again for your convenience:

1) All compound things are illusory

2) All emotions are pain

3) All compound things have no inherent existence

4) Nirvanna, enlightenment, is beyond concept.

There ya go. A little light reading and thinking to bake your noodle in a low simmer.





posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by fmcanarney
reply to post by bvproductions
 


that is why muslims suicid bomb themselves so they can go to heaves whti 26 virgins.
The problem is they are virgin sheep not girls.

btw what is the squar root of 69?


I thought it was 72 virgins, now I keep seeing all sorts of numbers.


Much like how your response relates to what was posted, is the answer you're looking for completely irrational?

Though I'll add that I think what bvproductions is describing is still in fact TIME. If there's change relative to a frame of reference, there's time.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by redwoodjedi
1) All compound things are illusory


Really, what's "illusory"? Temporary, sure, from a limited perspective. In their full splendor from an infinite perspective they may in fact be inherent and permanent. I'll refer to the old chesnut "reel of film" analogy. In the former sense, it's viewing the frames in sequence, in the latter its the film.

Apply that to ALL-ness, and nothing requires creation or a creator. It's much easier to grasp "something from nothing". The paradox is gone.


2) All emotions are pain


Hmmm. How Vulcan. Really, does this notion come about from something related to the idea of rhythm? My swings positive balance to an equal an opposite negative one?


3) All compound things have no inherent existence


That's an easy one I got on my own oh so long ago. Reality in subparts has a relative existence with itself however. The compound things existing as "inherent", substantial things never really made sense to me.

But, I know what does. We all "see" it "all the time". It is not an object, nor compound. It's the answer to the "hard problem" so many are on about these days. After all the time that has passed since the first "encounter" I'm still buzzing, can't stop talking about it. Perhaps too much contemplation on the matter is becoming a hinderance?


4) Nirvanna, enlightenment, is beyond concept.


I am confident they are not unique in that property, unless those inherent things I mentioned are in fact some sort of very, very limited subview of these. In that case, they're the same thing, one thing, hence unique.


There ya go. A little light reading and thinking to bake your noodle in a low simmer.


So punny, "light reading".

Anyway, bring in the nuclear fuel and shoot for critical mass! Scared or not, I want to pop this fat boy off!

Disclaimer to Homeland Security about above comment: That IS an analogy just in case you never learned about those.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 



I was just about to hit "post" when the power went out at our facility and I lost a rather lengthy response to you. Give me a bit of time and I will try to recapture the same flow and feeling in my initial response.

Cheers and Grace



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by redwoodjedi
reply to post by EnlightenUp
 



I was just about to hit "post" when the power went out at our facility and I lost a rather lengthy response to you. Give me a bit of time and I will try to recapture the same flow and feeling in my initial response.

Cheers and Grace


I'm sorry to hear that. I use a laptop for this sort of thing since it has built-in UPS (battery).

Do you by any chance work for CERN? Perhaps I went back in time to stop myself from from reading something vitally important.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


How's this for a lesson in impermance? It just happened again! No, I do not work for CERN. I work for a well known Global Security Agency in a Govt Building in California. The building has it's own server on an Intranet system and is heavily firewalled. My laptop that I wish I could use, like yours, is normally impervious to this sort of thing but because it relies on a wireless signal the only available signal is this building's system so I am limited and I am forced to use the agencie's computer.

So, with Buddhist patience, I push on and will attempt yet again, a response. It will come. Be patient and I will just keep pluggin' away at it.

Cheers and Grace



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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I like threads like this because it validates my own experiences.

First off congratulations on a great thread OP. Second of all, I wanted to say that I came to the conclusion its near on impossible to wake people up who aren't in the same mindset/vibration whatever you want to call as ourselves, therefore hard as it is we have to let them experience for themselves.

I won't mention the name on here but IMHO there is a clear way of waking people up however, ATS and their sponsors don't agree with this method so it has to sit on the sidelines.

The way I see it, is everything we experience on this earth is nothing but an illusion in order to see whats really behind the door we need to forget everything we have ever been told and then look for ourselves.



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