'Jesus-era' burial shroud found

'Jesus-era' burial shroud found

news.bbc.co.uk

A team of archaeologists and scientists says it has, for the first time, found pieces of a burial shroud from the time of Jesus in a tomb in Jerusalem.

the shroud was very different from the controversial Turin Shroud.

The body of a man wrapped in fragments of the shroud was found in a tomb dating from the time of Jesus near the Old City of Jerusalem.

The tomb is part of a cemetery called the Field of Blood, where Judas Iscariot is said to have killed himself.

The researchers belie

(visit the link for the full news article)

oh oh

Could this be the real shroud belonging to the unreal Jesus?

Apparently the article says that Shrouds were common back in the days but I believe they only found one more other one in history.

Was the son of god the first victim of leprosy in history?

Someone get the carbon 14 and check the dating

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

I believe if you are going to post such an article you shouldn't be so shrug about it.....



Regardless,
I guess we will just need to wait and see the results. Nothing could possibly be definite in such an environment.... yet, it's rather exciting news.

I am constantly amazed how it is that people who have the least interest in Christ and Christianity, spend the most time trying to disprove it.

Belief and disbelief is a personal choice and is not based on relics. Physical evidence is the requirement of man's faith in man, not any faith in faith.

If you dislike religion, simply ignore it. If you have an interest in disproving it, you are wasting your time. My faith will not be upended by anything you can do or say just as your particular beliefs will not be by mine.

If you need a rewarding job, try helping the homeless or working the local animal shelter. You won't find it by trying to make a ghost invisible.

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
I believe if you are going to post such an article you shouldn't be so shrug about it.....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ccd3c0ce0453.jpg[/atsimg]

hahaha

Well perhaps you are right, but I was just trying to spark some debate

reply to post by ModernAcademia


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8017de8c98cd.jpg[/atsimg]

Many assumptions being made that may or may not be valid.

1.) All burial shrouds of that era are identical. That's the biggest assumption. I would think that the more products would be hand made. So, when you need to bury someone and you get/purchase a burial shroud, it may or may not be similar to one that was purchased/ made a couple of years before.

2.) The shroud used could have just been available material.

3.) It could have been furnished by a wealthy follower.

Originally posted by redoubt
I am constantly amazed how it is that people who have the least interest in Christ and Christianity, spend the most time trying to disprove it.

Not Christ, just religion in general
ALL religions

Originally posted by redoubt
Belief and disbelief is a personal choice and is not based on relics. Physical evidence is the requirement of man's faith in man, not any faith in faith.

Beliefs are not based on relics?
Isn't the original bible a relic since it was written centuries ago?

Or do you not consider it a relic because you base your beliefs on Christianity version 3 known as the King James version?

Religious beliefs are absolutely based on relics

Originally posted by redoubt
If you dislike religion, simply ignore it. If you have an interest in disproving it, you are wasting your time. My faith will not be upended by anything you can do or say just as your particular beliefs will not be by mine.

That's fine you have every right to believe in whatever you wish
I'm all for freedom of beliefs
As well as freedom to argue

Originally posted by redoubt
If you need a rewarding job, try helping the homeless or working the local animal shelter. You won't find it by trying to make a ghost invisible.

This is not about finding something rewarding
I enjoy debates

btw excellent photoshopping!
I hear the Vatican are looking for such people

reply to post by ModernAcademia

That's fine you have every right to believe in whatever you wish I'm all for freedom of beliefs As well as freedom to argue

And that IS the whole point here, no? To argue, pointlessly about a subject that is unwinnable by either you or your opponents?

Oh yes, faith is absolutely unprovable and that makes it a perfect topic because, just as you are helpless to deny it, so too are those defending it.

But you either miss the point or purposely ignore it. And either way, you do understand so... anything further only serves your desire to argue.

Feather in a cap for you for starting this thread that others will, no doubt, bite upon!

But from me? No more. Nothing personal but... attempts to dislodge faith are reprehensible regardless of their intent and in this case, just a little redundant.

Have a nice day

reply to post by redoubt


Nobody can't win isn't entirely true

I once converted a jehovas witness to atheism and made her a vegetarian.
This was about 12 years ago when I was 18yrs old.

So it is absolutely not futile

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by redoubt

 

Nobody can't win isn't entirely true

I once converted a jehovas witness to atheism and made her a vegetarian.
This was about 12 years ago when I was 18yrs old.

So it is absolutely not futile

You must be proud. Because it's deffinately something to gloat about. Personaly destroying ones Faith in something just because you disagree with it.
Other than your ego .. What gives you the right to take something away from someone that gives them Hope, Happiness, and Peace?

In what way does that have any effect on your or your life whatsoever?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I've always noticed that most Atheists take more time to disproving any religion than the members of those religions take to converting others. Who is preaching to whom?

Atheism has become one of the most organized religions ever!

So because this historical artifact is from 2000 years ago which was also the theoretical time Jesus lived you have to bring religion into the picture? It was "near" where Judas supposedly killed himself so all of a sudden you call it a "religious artifact"?

Any excuse works eh?

Originally posted by Detailed Perfection
You must be proud. Because it's deffinately something to gloat about. Personaly destroying ones Faith in something just because you disagree with it.
Other than your ego .. What gives you the right to take something away from someone that gives them Hope, Happiness, and Peace?

In what way does that have any effect on your or your life whatsoever?

She is still happy i'm sure.
This has nothing to do with ego

Listen to this, if God gave you a brain then shouldn't you use it?
Because she now has faith in herself instead of an invisible man you claim I destroyed her life?
Really, if anything I think helped her out
She now has way more freedom in her life to live as she see fits.

How can you say that me telling her not to allow an ancient book, written by god knows who, to serve as nothing as delimiters to thought control her life?

being spiritual >>>>> being religious!!!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Or do you not consider it a relic because you base your beliefs on Christianity version 3 known as the King James version?

Religious beliefs are absolutely based on relics

This is not about finding something rewarding
I enjoy debates

btw excellent photoshopping!

I hear the Vatican are looking for such people

The scriptures themselves acknowledge their limitations and uses. The false and faithless teachers have abused the scriptures and claimed them to be God. But God is seen by the faithful and ignored or idolized by the faithless. More so, God is manifested in the faithful and is ignored or idolized by the faithless.

Christ has been made into an idol. The bible has been made into an idol. Christ is increasingly being ignored altogether. The scriptures are increasingly being ignored altogether.

Regardless, all these things are to complete the ceremony and our observations and judgments are not sovereign, but are part of the sovereign ceremony.


2 Tim 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. That the man of God may be complete, thoroughly prepared for all worthy tasks.

HOWEVER!!!!, keep reading...

Rom 1:16-25
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


Even before the scriptures, what is true is evident and it is due to our own limitations that we do not see and understand. Is mathematics untrue because animals cannot comprehend it? But is not mathematics evident and logical on its own? The observer does not define the observation. The observation reveals itself to the observers and they understand. Observers are manifestations of God. Some shine more brightly than others. This is why we hold men like Einstein with such high regard. Men like that see well where we, who are more common in those topics, fail to see. As years pass, gravity and math becomes trivial, but at one time, observing such things was a great mystery. Gravity did not begin to exist when it was comprehended, but rather, WE BEGIN TO EXIST WHEN WE COMPREHEND.

I am the son of God. I have many brothers. Christ was spiritually the first. My friends, if you do not judge well, it is because you do not observe well. I beg my Father to give me eyes to see and ears to hear. Father, make me to understand.

---

Luk 10:36-37
Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Christ unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

TextMat 27:57 ¶ When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple: Mat 27:58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.


Mat 27:59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,


Mat 27:60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

Could this be the real shroud belonging to the unreal Jesus?

No, cause what they found is in the field of blood....now Judas Iscriot was buried there...but not Jesus....

a rich man gave Jesus his own tomb to use......a brand new tomb to lay Jesus in.

also this article is in no way saying this is Jesus....but has said that it is a man who died of leprosy, and this makes since, the field of blood was bought with Judas' money that he threw on the ground before he hung himself.....and this cemetary was used for the poor or those whom had no one to claim them and bury them....

Jesus had a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph,to give him a tomb...

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Detailed Perfection
You must be proud. Because it's deffinately something to gloat about. Personaly destroying ones Faith in something just because you disagree with it.
Other than your ego .. What gives you the right to take something away from someone that gives them Hope, Happiness, and Peace?

In what way does that have any effect on your or your life whatsoever?

She is still happy i'm sure.
This has nothing to do with ego

Listen to this, if God gave you a brain then shouldn't you use it?
Because she now has faith in herself instead of an invisible man you claim I destroyed her life?
Really, if anything I think helped her out
She now has way more freedom in her life to live as she see fits.

How can you say that me telling her not to allow an ancient book, written by god knows who, to serve as nothing as delimiters to thought control her life?

being spiritual >>>>> being religious!!!

But that is what YOU think about God and The Bible. That's not what SHE thought.
People can have Faith in themselves and Faith in God, or Fiath in whatever they believe in.
Having Faith in God or Faith in The Bible does not render one powerless to live their lives as they see fit.

'She is still happy I'm sure' but do you know that for a fact? How do you that she wasn't happy before, or better yet, how do you know that she wasn't happier before you felt it your business to destroy her Faith?

You never answered my question ... What gives YOU the right to destroy someones Faith in something that makes them Happy, Hopeful and at Peace?
What is it about someone finding happiness in what they believe in that is so threatening to you, that you feel it your obligation to stomp on and destroy it?

Who cares? The worlds going to hades in an handbasket and the only thing the zionists can come up with is another old piece of cloth stating its the shroud of Jesus. I swear. So many more important things to fix in the world. But no wave a old piece of cloth around, tell the world some more lies and get the foolish people to pay money to do pilgrimages to visit it by the millions. Pay off some scientists to say its real, fake the DNA tests and BANG instant religious relic. What a bunch of BS. These people should all be whipped, or worse.

Originally posted by Detailed Perfection
But that is what YOU think about God and The Bible. That's not what SHE thought.

Fair enough, but we can go back even before that to why she believed that as well right?
If it wasn't me, earlier it was someone/something else.

Honestly, all that I did was made her think
I really didn't push my beliefs down her throat
I only asked her to ask herself questions

Originally posted by Detailed Perfection
'She is still happy I'm sure' but do you know that for a fact? How do you that she wasn't happy before, or better yet, how do you know that she wasn't happier before you felt it your business to destroy her Faith?

I guess I didn't destroy her faith
I only influenced a change in it, that's all

Let's say she was happy before, and also happy now
ok, so she's the same person essentially right?
Isn't that all that matters?

I only asked her to think more that's all at the end of the day

Originally posted by Detailed Perfection
You never answered my question ... What gives YOU the right to destroy someones Faith in something that makes them Happy, Hopeful and at Peace?

I believe that being spiritual makes you way more at peace and happy then being religious, and I think that's undebatable.

Nothing gives me the right to destroy her faith to answer your question
I also don't think that one needs a right to ask someone to question their faith.

Remember, she was a jehova's witness
So you saying that I destroyed her faith and I had no right to do this
Well, as a Jehova's witness, wasn't that the same reason why she knocked on my door?
To change my faith?

AHA Got you eh?

Originally posted by Detailed Perfection
What is it about someone finding happiness in what they believe in that is so threatening to you, that you feel it your obligation to stomp on and destroy it?

I told her.. I don't remember completely as it was a long time ago
but I remember what I meant
I said something like "If you truly believe your faith is truth, then why fear questioning it? True faith means you have enough faith that you will find an answer, so if anything you SHOULD question it"

I guess that's what really convinced her
Was it wrong to say?
Do you disagree with it?

I don't believe that there is such a thing as unquestionable faith. Even the holiest of men that claim to be closest to God will at some time in their life of service question their faith, themselves, and God.

The whole point in having Faith, is having Faith in the presence of questions without any answers.

Look, I'm not a bible thumper, holy roller, jesus freak, let's convert them all! person by any means. I think that people can believe whatever they want, when they want, how they want. People should be free to make their own distinctions, create their own questions, and find their own answers.

Actually .. I don't even care that you opened someone to question their own. I really don't. And I honestly don't know it even bothered me or why I took offense to it.
Whether it's religion, or interpreting a painting or music .. Two people will always have their own ideas about it and will always try to persuade the other into their way of thinking. That's just basic fact.

So I appologize to you if I came across as attacking you personally for doing something that WE ALL do in some form or fashion everyday.

I read the Bible and I have 1,000 questions that will never have an answer. I have thoughts and ideas that will never make any sense without answers.

BTW .. What's the difference between Spirituality and Religion?

[edit on 16-12-2009 by Detailed Perfection]

Spirituality is a religion.

Religion is the concept of adoring something greater in general. Even if that something greater is mystical, not a "god," or even one's self. If you have any sort of connection to "unseen" things, you are spiritual and have some form of religion. Law is religion as well. It glorifies order. However, without Charity, Order is Pride. As without Order, Charity is Chaos. There is no escaping the honoring or dishonoring of OrderCharity.