Which will aliens communicate with first? Humans, or ?

Originally posted by KingX
Very interesting,thanks for posting.Bring back some trekkie moments.I thought about it back then when the trek movie released,but disregarded the idea pretty fast due to the fact whales would be hard to abduct

True, even in the movie they had a hard time finding the whales. Using that little human transporter for the giant whales and the water they are in would be quite a feat. But I think there's a technical problem with the picture I posted from that movie of the whales, did you notice?

It looks like the "aquarium" they built for the whales is full of water, wouldn't that be a problem? I mean, how are the whales supposed to breathe? I know, for lesser movies I expect those contradictions with reality but Star Trek is usually better about getting the science right, or trying to at least.

Haha very true.Would be tons and tons of water.But thats if we believe they would have to abduct them to communicate.If they have technology to comunicate they may be able to do so underwater.Dont forget all the sighting even back to Columbus's day of UFO's going in and out of the ocean water.If there are aliens for all we know they could have whales on speedial.So we better watch those oil spills

Originally posted by KingX
But thats if we believe they would have to abduct them to communicate.

Actually they didn't have to abduct the whales for them to communicate, they could communicate fine from the ocean. They were only abducted for purposes of time travel, once that was done they were put back in the ocean which is where they did their communications with the aliens.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by KingX
But thats if we believe they would have to abduct them to communicate.

Actually they didn't have to abduct the whales for them to communicate, they could communicate fine from the ocean. They were only abducted for purposes of time travel, once that was done they were put back in the ocean which is where they did their communications with the aliens.

I must watch this movie tonight.It been so many years.

They are Not going to talk to humpback whales just because some guy cannot figure out how their language works.

What about the secret silent language of the South African centipede? No one knows how they communicate either!

Nope.. I think they will talk to Us because we are Humans and not some evolved monkey. We, are special. Or at least that's what we like to think.

Can a whale tell them how to build an atom bomb? or discuss Plato and M.C. Escher? No. A whale can say, Hello Nice day for a swim don't ya think. Oh.. and look at all the pretty fish I am going to have for dinner later. and Oh My that's a big ship I sure hope it's not a Whaling vessel.

The bigger question is Which Humans are they going to talk to? Ex president Carter, Shirley McClain, some idiot called Obama or will they go for the really smart ones or at least the one who deserve the honor.. like Art Bell or Michio Kaku?

I really hope they decide and do it soon cus I really have got to get off this planet.

Originally posted by zetamafia911

Originally posted by wiredamerican
Ants are far more numerous than humans, and more successful as well. They have even been around for millions of years. I think aliens would go to ants before they went to us.

but the video near the end basically just brushes aside the entire ufo field, kind of off-put me though the rest was pretty interesting

Yes but if the ending is right, and WE are the aliens, then I owe that guy with a thread in ATS skunkworks an apology. When he said in his thread he's an alien, I didn't believe him!

reply to post by hephalump


Maybe the Humpbacks are TPTB. Depopulation or extinction of humans may be in their best interest, yes? But really, I see your point.
I wonder if something larger, for instance, a reptile like creature could survive a meteor impact in a similar way that the bacteria did in the experiment. Dormant within the rock similar to the way crocodiles, etc. are dormant in the mud until the heat and water return.

Yeah....
When i travel to another planet I would totally ignore the sentient beings and talk to the cockroaches or maybe the flies first....

I imagine Sentient beings from other planets would have priorities as we do or maybe more....

[edit on 16-12-2009 by DjSharperimage]

reply to post by Arbitrageur

This thread reminds me of the "humpback whale/alien plot" of Star Trek 4 (1986):

"As they enter the solar system, they hear Starfleet's warning and the alien signal; Spock determines that it matches the song of humpback whales, long since extinct on Earth, and that the object will continue to wreak havoc on the planet until it can be answered. The crew devise a plan to slingshot around the Sun to time travel back to the late 20th century and return with a whale."
(en.wikipedia.org...:_The_Voyage_Home)

reply to post by halfoldman

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

This thread reminds me of the "humpback whale/alien plot" of Star Trek 4 (1986):

Very perceptive, yes that's one of the points in this thread.

But was Hollywood influenced by scientific research, or was the scientific research influenced by Hollywood? Or is there no connection?

From what research I've done it seems Star Trek 4 came out first, before Laurance Doyle's research but I'm not sure who else may have been researching whale communication.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Can a whale tell them how to build an atom bomb?

Frank Drake is interviewed and he says that he saw no point in trying to communicate science to aliens because they will know all that if they are traveling through space. Is he right? We can't be sure of course but I see his logic. So he designed the voyager probes communications to convey non-scientific materials to aliens.

The bigger question is Which Humans are they going to talk to? Ex president Carter, Shirley McClain, some idiot called Obama or will they go for the really smart ones or at least the one who deserve the honor.. like Art Bell or Michio Kaku?

That's an interesting question. Talk to the people in power? Or scientists? Or ordinary people? It probably depends on what their motivations are for visiting, right?

reply to post by DjSharperimage

Originally posted by DjSharperimage
Yeah....
When I travel to another planet I would totally ignore the sentient beings and talk to the cockroaches or maybe the flies first....

Well I doubt flies and cockroaches are sentient, but I'm not sure about some animals. For example, are humpback whales sentient?

I honestly don't know the answer to that.

I get the impression that Laurance Doyle seems to think so.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by Daisy-Lola

 

What do you think about Doyle's whale idea though? Any chance he might be right or was he just more influenced by Star Trek IV than I was?

It was a good film, but not to base your research on. As for dolphins I hope the message isn't decoded as "So long, and thanks for all the fish!"

For the Star Trek movie, I thought V-ger had met up with an alien life form that was computer based, and it took it on board. Been awhile since I've seen the Trek movies, apart from the new one.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Well I doubt flies and cockroaches are sentient, but I'm not sure about some animals. For example, are humpback whales sentient?

I honestly don't know the answer to that.

From everything we know, cetaceans appear to be very intelligent creatures. They are large-brained in proportion to their bodies (a better indicator of intelligence as opposed to general brain-size). Studies suggest they have nascent culture (yes culture). And an animal has to be intelligent to produce such complex vocalizations. But for as complex as their songs are, they aren't saying much. A song may last 10 to 20 minutes but be repeated for hours. Only males sing; it may have a role in mating and establishing territory. They don't appear to be communicating abstract concepts.

Originally posted by Daisy-Lola
As for dolphins I hope the message isn't decoded as "So long, and thanks for all the fish!"

Or "Unleash the virus! We attack at dawn!"

Actually, in that case, I hope we do decode it.

If I were an exploratory alien species and found multiple life forms in abundance on some far off planet, which creature would I communicate with first?

If I look like a fish, I would attempt to communicate with fish-like creatures...
If I look like an ant, I would attempt to communicate with ant-like creatures...
If I look like...and so on and so forth...

The point being that I would try to contact something I can readily understand to learn about it and its planet.

Imagine the first contact we have with life is moss or algae...will we simply write it off as non-sentient and move on?

Humans assume that we'll be first contaced because we're the advanced species, of course.

reply to post by links234


Good answer! Communicating with like beings (if any) makes sense.

Writing off moss or algae? Reminds me of the star trek episode where they were terraforming a supposedly uninhabited planet and didn't realize there was a silicon based life form there, it looked nothing like what we expected intelligent life to be.

And I like the drawing you linked to! Ants have truly amazing little "civilizations", one could even argue they organized their civilizations while our ancestors were still uncivilized hunter-gatherers.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by Arbitrageur]

reply to post by Arbitrageur


They already found aliens and are talking to them, they're just not telling the general public.

reply to post by bugstomper

Yes some people who are selling books would like you to believe that. But I've never seen any evidence for that, just lots of tall tales, myths, and wild stories.

However, it's fun to fantasize that they really have something like the secret underground lab in the movie "Independence Day" complete with alien ships and aliens.

Maybe they do have an alien, but if they really do and are keeping it secret, then you don't know about it any more than I do.

Would 'aliens' capable of mathematics, science and space travel communicate with fishes, even if they look like fishes? I doubt so.

Aliens that are capable of comming to Earth are not moss or algae, but sentient beings, fabricators of such crafts and engineers of such travel systems.