Previously undiscovered ancient city found on Caribbean sea floor

reply to post by GideonHM


Another great reply my brother.

Maslow was an idealist. In Psychology he is referred to as a humanist because his focus was on the potential within a human.

My favorite humanist is Carl Rogers. He also speaks of actualization and self-actualization, but his take is a bit different than Maslow.

Here is the Wikipedia entrance on Rogers. You might like his approach.

Wiki on Carl Rogers

As a researcher however, the data always supports the Behaviorists. They focus on things that are tangible, but that doesn't invalidate the humanist approach. As a matter of fact, almost all therapists currently use a style of therapy know as Rogerian Therapy, which of course is based on Humanism.

Regarding the thread, I personally immediately thought of Edgar Cayce and his prediction concerning Atlantis and the Bimini Road.

I think that not only is it possible that a greater civilization predates history, but it is probable. The current theory regarding the evolution of civilization basically states that it just sprung up out of nowhere.

We went from being hunter/gatherers who shaped stones for tools to an advanced civilization with metallurgy OVERNIGHT?!?!?!
That does not make sense.

Right in the fertile crescent we see social order and everything that accompanies it ALL AT ONCE. It simply does not follow the path of societal evolution to have law, writing, banking, trade, castes, art, religion, commerce, etc... all spring up at once.
Add that to the fact that EVERY civilization has some type of flood myth along with a great civilization that predates the flood myth. In Christianity, it is referred to as the Garden of Eden.
(I am very suspect of the stories found in the Abrahamic faiths. They have been compromised by the Mystery Schools of Babylon and their stories reflect what TPTB want them to reflect. I do, however, consider myself a believer in the one true God. See Bill Coopers Mystery Babylon Series to get a better grasp on what I am saying.)

Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon Series

Don't let the fools on here keep you from posting interesting finds such as this. I gave the OP a star and I wish that I could give more. No matter what flushes out of these pictures, in the end it sparked a great conversation.

And no one has yet to post any credible evidence showing that the pictures are invalid.

Cheers.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by Josephus23]

An interesting read... and I find myself with dashed hopes (yet again) for all the reasons heretofore mentioned about the dodginess of the source and their possible intent.

Just posting because I thought that since we've been here for so long you all might want to read this Alexander fellow's post on what he thinks of the Huffington Post's coverage of his little, er, experiment...

It's called "Surprise! Underwater cities, Atlantis, and all that jazz."

Some interesting comments there as well.

[edit to add a missing word]

[edit on 12/19/2009 by PixelDuster]

reply to post by Josephus23


Yep, All One. Everything is interconnected and these trends we are witnessing are bringing the Great Collapse closer one instant at a time.

The rise of the ATS is doomed thread and all this hostility to the unknown are really pointing to the fact that our Society is doomed at the highest levels. Politicians refuse to pay the bills and leach off of the people they believe are beneath them.

Same thing here. If any of those pseudo skeptics are given any authority at all, they will naturally see their position as a naturally occurring condition that elevates them above the chaff as it were. They can then act in whatever manner pleases them, and then they quickly surround themselves with like minded fools who support them as long as the power flows, and woe be to the poor fools who might disagree with the newly proclaimed emperors in whatever rigid social structure can support such incompetence.

The Great Collapse is upon us. Go to a movie, do whatever you want, just live each day as if it were its last without burning out your resources in an end of society binge spend.

All One. I learned that from a shampoo bottle. Never would have guessed a shampoo bottle could provide something so useful. Although, to be fair Doc Bronner's soap label is filled with weird and hard to digest, much less understand statements, and All One was the one that sunk in. The Moral ABC's are something most of the jerks on ATS would get violently ill at if someone took their will and forced them to follow the basic tenets of being good, open, honest, loving, and productive people.

All one.



[edit on 19-12-2009 by GideonHM]

Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by beaverg

 

If you make claims, no matter if they are in response to a claim then you are bound as the person saying so to debunk the alternative claim with PROOF.

That's all fine and dandy but the picture in question has already been beaten like a dead horse. There is no need to cover that claim anymore because the fact that these pictures do not show an underwater city should be easy enough for an 8 year old with a screw driver to figure out, since you brought them up.

But anyway... It seems you are applying these standards to others while making claims that have absolutely nothing to back them up. I'm just trying to understand why this contradiction is okay for you.


[edit on 19-12-2009 by beaverg]

The originators of the pics say firstly, that they are using an advanced satellite imaging system. Secondly they say that the term Atlantis was a MSNBC add on. They also have said the the system they are using will "block" asymmetric figures, (ruins) into regular shapes. So what they say are underground ruins is their interpretation of their data. Since they have said all this, it is quite clear that nobody here can make any judgement on those pictures, other than "looks like" without being privy to the same data. A bit more info on the pictures from the originators themselves wouldn't go amiss though.

Originally posted by Mad Simian
Hate to burst everyone's bubble but it definitely looks to be a hoax. Besides the aforementioned 'google earth hand', you can find EXACTLY the same thing all over Google Earth. A prime example is the coastline around Istanbul, Turkey. I've also found some near Cairo, Egypt and off the coast of South Africa(although I'm sure there's plenty more).

Besides, the 'researchers' asked for donations in that article. Any self-respecting and properly DEGREED professional would be going the official route to get funding(i.e. government grants, backing from universities, etc.).

[edit on 15-12-2009 by Mad Simian]

DId anyone see this on the article? About Asking For Money? (I myself havent, because I need more proof from other sources before I even consider this photo as a possilbilty) BUT -

This guy wont reveal the local,

Wont reveal his name,

But is asking the general public for funding? Alarm bells anyone?

If this is accurate, I'm embarrassed for many of us jumping on the bandwagon before checking it out throuroughly. Is this what ATS has come to?

The funding is being asked for, but to mount an expedition in the area. It also says in this link, (posted before I think) that more info can be obtained by contacting the " Herald de Paris’ " editor.

www.heralddeparis.com...

reply to post by beaverg


What are you talking about? You didn't grasp a single thing I said at all.

You can't even remember most of what I said. Yet I am the one who has to provide you with proof that you can't understand and listen to the very real problems facing society. This wasn't about the image or Atlantis in terms of the greater message.

I said multiple times the image was outright crap! You didn't READ and COMPREHEND a single thing posted on this.

Then you dismiss the very point that damns your perspective.

Yes, it is all well and good. You will simply wake up one day and will continue as though this is all there is to life.

I know you don't understand the deeper message, so don't get ticked off because I refuse your dismissal and your attempt to call me a hypocrite.

Did you notice that you threw accusations at my character? If you can't pay attention long enough to get the FACT that that image is inconclusive, and that I said so often enough to make it clear, then how could you possibly understand what I am trying to tell you?

You can't and I am completely stupid. Say it a few times, then you will forget what bothers you and then you will simply disregard any further posts from me that make you instinctively uncomfortable.

Dismiss and you will find what comforts you.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by GideonHM]

reply to post by smurfy


You got it. Sounds like the super rich could be trying to use the paper as a means to strike out on their own as power in society is further consolidated in their hands.

Rockstars don't have to pay for much of anything when it comes to the basic trinkets required to live in modern societies. These people seem like they are trying to get further taxpayer funding to fuel their own attempt at exploration.

I don't know. That hypothesis is easily shot up, and I am more than willing to do the shooting. It sounds silly to me, but maybe it touches on a deeper connection to why this image was provided.

Nat Geo should have been all over this. Hmm.

reply to post by Cole DeSteele


Here's the direct quote from the original article posted by the OP...


"The project team asks that for more information, or to find out how to help fund their research, please contact the Herald de Paris’ publisher, Jes Alexander, at a specially set-up telephone number: 415-738-7811."

Here's some new Google Earth coordinates for everyone:

18.344 N, 64.549 W

Take them as you will.

reply to post by GideonHM


Let me rehash this whole thing for you because I think you have lost yourself somewhere. I was originally replying to a post you had made claiming that Plato heard from Egyptian priests that a 10,000 year old civilization existed somewhere. In that post you said that it can't be denied that Plato heard from Egyptian priests that a 10,000 year old civilization existed somewhere. I my reply I wanted to know why it couldn't be denied.

Your reply didn't answer my question but seemed to address the general tone of the skeptics of the underwater city as a whole and the decline of society. So I, still confused, asked again. Why can the claims you make not be backed up by proof and still be undeniable?

Your second reply again goes off on another tangent without answering the question. I really don't know what you're getting at with the 'me' generation, paid debunkers, So I ask once again... Why is it that when you make a claim, like the one about Plato, it is undeniable? Also, I didn't attack you 'like a child', or attack your character.

BTW, your posts are instinctively uncomfortable because they are incredibly condescending, FFR.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by beaverg]

As if sailors wouldn't see this as they sailed over it.

I could not get through the POST yet, so I hope I am not duplicating things, but I can't help myself right now.

I am logged onto ATS, and this is the discourse offered so far?

You dismissive types need to offer something other than ridicule. Come on.

You all seemingly have some premise and are intrigued enough by the "FIND" to hit the reply button. Well if you have something to offer, let us "Others" who would wish to research and discuss the matter further have this information you seem to harbour, yet keep hidden from observant eyes to inspect.

I do not know if this "FIND" is a reality or fictional, but I would like to findout, and inorder to do so, we must seek and in some cases await further details.

With that said,.....

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by McGinty

 

There was this guy named Plato who had something to do with this whole Atlantis business. Y'see, he concocted the Atlantis story during a debate on his work, Republic. Atlantis was the archenemy to his perfect republic - Athens - and by its essential nature, was goingto be the opposite of everything Plato was writing about in his Republic. So yes, Atlantis, as told by Plato,......

Well that is one way of offering supportive or dismissive comments.

Plato, was actually reporting upon a story told by Solon, who learned of Atlantis from Egypt. A Holyman told him about it.

CHAPTER II.
PLATO'S HISTORY OF ATLANTIS.
PLATO has preserved for us the history of Atlantis. If our views are correct, it is one of the most valuable records which have come down to us from antiquity.

Plato lived 400 years before the birth of Christ. His ancestor, Solon, was the great law-giver of Athens 600 years before the Christian era. Solon visited Egypt. Plutarch says, "Solon attempted in verse a large description, or rather fabulous account of the Atlantic Island, which he had learned from the wise men of Sais, and which particularly concerned the Athenians; but by reason of his age, not want of leisure (as Plato would have it), he was apprehensive the work would be too much for him, and therefore did not go through with it. These verses are a proof that business was not the hinderance:

"'I grow in learning as I grow in age.'

And again:

"'Wine, wit, and beauty still their charms bestow,
Light all the shades of life, and cheer us as we go.'

"Plato, ambitious to cultivate and adorn the subject of the Atlantic Island, as a delightful spot in some fair field unoccupied, to which also be had some claim by reason of his being related to Solon, laid out magnificent courts and enclosures, and erected a grand entrance to it, such as no other story, fable, or Poem ever had. But, as he began it late, he ended his life before the work, so that the more the reader is delighted with

the part that is written, the more regret he has to find it unfinished."

There can be no question that Solon visited Egypt. The causes of his departure from Athens, for a period of ten years, are fully explained by Plutarch. He dwelt, be tells us,

"On the Canopian shore, by Nile's deep mouth."

There be conversed upon points of philosophy and history with the most learned of the Egyptian priests. He was a man of extraordinary force and penetration of mind, as his laws and his sayings, which have been preserved to us, testify. There is no improbability in the statement that be commenced in verse a history and description of Atlantis, which be left unfinished at his death; and it requires no great stretch of the imagination to believe that this manuscript reached the hands of his successor and descendant, Plato; a scholar, thinker, and historian like himself, and, like himself, one of the profoundest minds of the ancient world. the Egyptian priest had said to Solon, "You have no antiquity of history, and no history of antiquity;" and Solon doubtless realized fully the vast importance of a record which carried human history back, not only thousands of years before the era of Greek civilization, but many thousands of years before even the establishment of the kingdom of Egypt; and be was anxious to preserve for his half-civilized countrymen this inestimable record of the past.

We know of no better way to commence a book about Atlantis than by giving in full the record preserved by Plato. It is as follows:

One can review the Critias account at the following
www.sacred-texts.com...

I trust any wishing to review the matter can apply their own grey matter and decide for themselves if such a story, legend, fable or myth actually occured.

It would not be a good idea to "Take your word for it" obviously
Your view seems a little skewed in it's preceptions.

Ciao

Shane

P.S. I always appreciated the following comments made by the Preist of Sais to Solon. It put a perspective on the topic then, and could easily apply here and now.

Thereupon, one of the priests, who was of very great age; said, 'O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are but children, and there is never an old man who is an Hellene.' Solon, bearing this, said, 'What do you mean?' 'I mean to say,' he replied, 'that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you the reason of this: there have been, and there will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes.

reply to post by Shane


Shane that was a good post i for one do believe man has been to this point in the past and destroyed themselves but that is just my opinion.
There is so much still waiting to be discovered.

THANKYOU

reply to post by mars1


Well, despite the naysayers and their verbal dismissive responses which offer nothing but the ramblings bouncing between their collective ears, I applaud your bringing this to our attention.

Of course, I would like to refrain from suggesting this is a factual account or some fraudulent scam, without further information to be reviewed pointing oneway or the other.

I myself, firmly believe what Plato refered to as Atlantis was a reality, and I also believe there is GLOBAL EVIDENCE which when considered cumulatively, takes the concept from the obscure and into the realm of plausible.

If this find becomes researched and archived properly, I will look forward to viewing what is brought to our attentions.

Anyways, if some newer posters who obviously have no past exprience with the text previously noted, heres a worthy link for your own review.

Ignatius Donnelly's, Atlantis, the Antediluvian World
www.sacred-texts.com...

Originally posted by Mad Simian
Here's some new Google Earth coordinates for everyone:

18.344 N, 64.549 W

Take them as you will.

Yep. This style of artifact is all over Google Earth. It's quite an accomplishment that this story ever was published

reply to post by Shane


I am with you on the part about not buying the story fully most posters are the same but that doesn't mean it could not be true there isnt enuff info that they give out and them pictures do have the look of image pixelation we will have to wait and see if they give more info so its not a hoax just yet.

THANKYOU

reply to post by GideonHM

I appreciate and agree with your viewpoint in respects to what has been offered within this post.

Incase some of the dismissive types missed the point, we are only asking that when you offer your "Point of View" it should be supported with something which offers us all the ability to gain this insight you seemingly have but shade and hide from public review.

Debate is great.

Verbal Dismissive responses uttered to seek self grandization and inflation of self worth without anything to support those responses seem fruitless.

If I suggest this is fake, then I should at the least offer supportive material so ALL can review and make their own descision.

On the otherhand, if I believe this to be something which requires further review inorder to obtain some form of clarity which at least gives us all something to ponder, I should offer something to ponder which supports my view.

I just reviewed this whole Topic, and I found it strange that those who wish to debunk or dismiss this reported find can do so without anything to support those view, but when Pro commentaries are offered, the Debunkers/Dismissers immeaditely seek evidence or supportive material.

Is this truely a underwater city found off the coast of Cuba? I do not know.

Is it possible? Of course it is. There are similiar structures located around this globe, and one of the contributors previously offered about 10 such links to support his view in respects to the plausiblity based on varied Global accounts of just such previous finds.

Is this Atlantis? Not likely, but it doesn't dismiss the importance of such a find, should it eventually become documented and reviewed.

Hopefully this will occur.

Ciao

Shane

P.S. Here's a short review of relative Atlantis Lore for the bullet crowd.
homepage.mac.com...

reply to post by beaverg


Look, you can't deny what you can't prove to not exist 100%, and truly make it stick. The burden of proof is valid (meaning that it fits within the realms of what we are discussing, not necessarily that it is true) for both sides. WE HAVE NOTHING BUT A PICTURE AND A HUNCH.

A bank won't accept a picture of a 100 dollar bill as proof that you have it. Even if you are smiling in the picture holding it even 5 minutes before you take the picture to the bank. Now a days they will simply call the brute squad to break your arms before they will cash that picture for the currency represented.

To me it feels like you think I personally believe the city is there. NO. I have a strong hunch there are very advanced remains of what humanity was, scattered around the globe or are buried in the Vatican and in the Valley of the Kings. I have so little concrete evidence so I try to keep that perspective to myself to avoid further ridicule for pointing out that ATS is becoming a cesspool of childishness.

I am agonizingly fed up with people who are purely hypocritical in their assessments of things that are not concrete either way.

You get me a photo or hard core evidence that the photo has been doctored, and I would even defend you to the death. Right now, you are simply not giving anything solid to PROVE it.

People here said it is a case closed hoax. The second they are proven wrong, they will roll their eyes and will quickly avoid any further condemnation of their now debunked perspective, and some will then take it personally that the tables are turned.

So? It happens! That is the general statement of people who are not experienced debunkers. Look at ghost hunters on Sy Fy and see how they behave. They don't ridicule people offering claims, they don't say something is conclusive till it hits them in the face, and they refuse to make a decision indefinitely on many cases as a few bumps in the night and a voice or two do not constitute a haunting. Josh Gates? He tends to sell down his evidence, but that man could survive hell itself and think it an adventure, but he goes ON SITE and DOES THE WORK HIMSELF WITH HIS PROFESSIONAL TEAM.

The only thing I definitively said about Plato's accuracy is that he is retelling what was retold. I trust a hypothetical dead priest and a proven philosopher far more than your perspective, because you already made up your mind.

Not to mention, Plato gave in depth accounts of the Atlantians daily lives, their city, everything required to paint a deep, rich picture of what could have been. I simply believe that a world renowned philosopher's documented account of what our world and ancient societies could have been like is far more believable than D.E.M's and other people's idiotic rants that didn't address the point.

Governments lie openly to us, and people without experience are given far to much license to spout unsubstantiated opinion about issues that are purely topical. Not to mention people still trust what their governments tell them when it is fact that the governments do not tell us the truth when it runs contrary to what they think is best.

Many insiders on ATS would prefer me to argue with you till the end of time, as it keeps me distracted. You can't convince me there is nothing but sea floor till you do what Josh Gates and the Ghost Hunters do, and you do it professionally. Period.

If you don't think those two shows aren't prime examples of what true debunking is, then you will never gain the credibility to support your claim that as is, is currently unsubstantiated.

I sound condescending because I happen to have a college education with a full spectra of scientific studies, and much more, and I have every right to use my college education to defend my positions and shoot holes into this false debunkery.

You can't prove that Atlantis didn't exist OR that it did. I trust Plato's word over yours, my own, Phage's or anyone else's for that matter. A college education means so little to a majority of the super debunkers, and I frankly will continue to point out that no one is right when everyone is wrong.

Your argument is pointless because I am not arguing your point (argument is simply the discussion of different ideas, not an angry fight). If you don't prove the sea floor is flat and barren there, then I take the low road and call BS! PROVE IT HOAXER! Now I am being a little silly. Learn from this. I don't have to take crap from anyone. Neither do you.



[edit on 20-12-2009 by GideonHM]