possible millions of new species, page 2

Here is a video of the octopi tool use. From the BBC, it shows a little more than the video you have so far.

The octopi can pick up the shell half and run with it like a spider, weird.

Octopus snatches coconut and runs

These findings are based on research conducted by the Census of Marine Life. Here a link to their website. The website is a bit slow and some of the links are broken, but it contains many amazing photos and videos.

Why a census?

The Census of Marine Life is a global network of researchers in more than 80 nations engaged in a 10-year scientific initiative to assess and explain the diversity, distribution, and abundance of life in the oceans. The world's first comprehensive Census of Marine Life - past, present, and future - will be released in 2010.

The stated purpose of the Census of Marine Life is to assess and explain the diversity, distribution, and abundance of marine life. Each plays an important role in what is known, unknown, and may never be known about what lives in the global ocean.

First, diversity. The Census aims to make for the first time a comprehensive global list of all forms of life in the sea. No such unified list yet exists. Census scientists estimate that about 230,000 species of marine animals have been described and reside in jars in collections in museums of natural history and other repositories. Since the Census began in 2000, researchers have added more than 5600 species to the lists. They aim to add many thousands more by 2010. The database of the Census already includes records for more than 16 million records, old and new. By 2010, the goal is to have all the old and the new species in an on-line encyclopedia with a webpage for every species. In addition, we will estimate how many species remain unknown, that is, remain to be discovered. The number could be astonishingly large, perhaps a million or more, if all small animals and protists are included. For comparison, biologists have described about 1.5 million terrestrial plants and animals.

Second, distribution. The Census aims to produce maps where the animals have been observed or where they could live, that is, the territory or range of the species. Knowing the range matters a lot for people concerned about, for example, possible consequences of global climate change.

Third, abundance. No Census is complete without measures of abundance. We want to know not only that there is such a thing as a Madagascar crab but how many there are. For marine life, populations are being estimated either in numbers or in total kilos, called biomass.

In 2010 the movie Océan by French producer and actor Jacques Perrin will be released. The Census of Marine Live provided scientific counsel for this movie. The trailer looks great.


[edit on 15-12-2009 by Drunkenshrew]

reply to post by endisnighe

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The material itself isn't terribly rare.

However, access to it certainly is. It would not be at all cost-effective to drill where they found this worm. hell, it probably wasn't cost-effective to pull the worm up!

Also, not all oil is equal. It's not like crude oil is crude oil and it's all as good as the rest. As a naturally-occurring product, there are of course varying grades of the stuff. A fair amount of what we pump up nowadays is, literally, junk. Slop that has no practical purpose, is too expensive to try to refine, refines into exceptionally poor materials, that sort of thing.

It's not oil that's rare it's accessable and useful oil that's rare.

Originally posted by endisnighe
Here is a video of the octopi tool use. From the BBC, it shows a little more than the video you have so far.

The octopi can pick up the shell half and run with it like a spider, weird.

Octopus snatches coconut and runs

Thanks very much for this. The more of this I get to watch, the more I enjoy it.

reply to post by Lillydale

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Mimicry is not just visual, my dear.



A moth on a tree is not mimicry, it is more like camouflage. Some moths and butterflies mimic other species with their coloring. Stick insects and mantises use camouflage as well but are also able to mimic the movement of branches.

Plants also conduct mimicry of animals. See Pseudocopulation.

Crypsis is a term that includes both mimicry and camouflage.

Octopuses, and most higher order mollusks, are very intelligent. The mimic octopus has behavioral mimicry and the physical ability to do what it does, but the organism itself does not mimic one specific other organism in it's ecological environment.





I'm a zoologist. I've got a bunch of these up my sleeve

[edit on 12/25/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by Lillydale

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That is why I think it is a little more interesting than say a moth that looks like bark.

A moth that looks like bark is an example of camouflage, not mimicry. Therefore it is in a completely different category than the mimic octopus. I mean, I guess you could compare the two anyway, but I think a moth that looks like bark is very interesting in its own respect.

In addition, a stick bug does not only look like something else. It copies the movement of the stick that it is imitating. It mimics the movement. It's actually very interesting.

I'm not arguing, I'm trying to educate.

Mimic octopuses are very interesting. I am pretty well-versed in marine biology, I was familiar with this organism before this thread. It does exhibit mimicry. A moth does not exhibit mimicry, it exhibits camouflage. A stick bug can be interpreted to exhibit both camouflage and mimicry.

[edit on 12/26/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by ravenshadow13

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I am not sure what kind of drunken round table discussion I got lost in but I believe I originally made it clear that I understood the difference between looking like something and acting like something. The mimic octopus strikes a certain pose to look like a zebra fish. That is more interesting than a moth that looks like bark. Two different defense mechanisms. I have no idea what you are trying to educate me about but now that I feel sufficiently walked in a circle for no reason, I will just say thanks. I have learned from you that stick bugs are not called that because of the fact that they look very much like a stick but because they mimic the movement of a stick. OK. The mimic octopus does not actually mimic other creatures in its ecosystem.

the mimic octopus has a strong ability to mimic the form of other ocean creatures.

So again, no clue what you are on about but I will not be visiting your zoo for any education any time soon.

reply to post by Lillydale

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It does not mimic one specific creature. It mimics more than one, that was my point.

I do not work at a zoo. I work at a research organization.

Happy Holidays.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by Lillydale

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It does not mimic one specific creature. It mimics more than one, that was my point.

That is why I mentioned that it could do that. See why I am confused? I never said it only had one pose. I specifically stated that it was able to make itself look like a few different creatures. I do not understand the disconnect.

I do not work at a zoo. I work at a research organization.

Happy Holidays.

I was being facetious. I certainly did not think you owned your own zoo either.

Honestly, I feel like you are looking for an argument or a fight or some type of conflict that is not to be had here. You keep 'correcting' me to tell me things I already said as if you are now giving me the real information even though it is the same as what I stated.

This was a fun circle. I am all for learning about things but to have someone condescend to you to tell you you need to learn something only to spit back information you already acknowledged on your own is something completely different.

I am sure you meant well but I do not drink and I feel very dizzy now. I am pretty sure you even got me to disagree with myself here and I honestly could care less to agree or agree when it comes to natural science. Maybe sometime in another thread, you can teach me something about a different topic. I have faith that if you just travel in a straight line from start to finish, you might have a great deal to share. Even re-reading this does not help me figure out what you were trying to add or educate me on or whatever but maybe the holiday cheer has gotten to all of us.

One thing that is great about ATS is all the experts here. Not that I doubt your credentials at all either but...I think I will go back to threads with pilots who do not know how to fly, chemical engineers that cannot differentiate between compounds and reactions, Catholic experts who never heard of original sin, etc. for a while and learn some more from them.


oh yeah, and happy holidays. Be safe and let someone else drive.

[edit on 12/26/09 by Lillydale]

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