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Steorn Announces Public Demonstration of Orbo Technology

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posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by MajorDisaster
Hi downisreallyup

I just wanted to say that you've presented a lot of great information in this thread and I applaud your efforts.


Do you really think you'll ever be able to get the skeptics to change their tune though?

There comes a point in every Free Energy thread where all the useful information has been posted and any further arguing back and forth with skeptics becomes an exercise in futility, and you may be just about there


I remember when an ATS member did the Bedini "School Girl Motor" experiment and got a COP of around 1.3 - indicating Overunity - and, you could have heard a pin drop in the thread. What should have been huge news - "Wow, an ATS member with an overunity device!" - was met with complete and utter silence.

Bottom line, yes ZPE and Overunity devices do exist, and there are a small handful of people such as Bedini who really have something. The problem is that the people in the world with the requisite money and power to actually start producing large quantities of these things refuse to do it.


Major, I can see why you have such a large number of points and flags! If only all ATS members offered such good comments all the time!




posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by downisreallyup
reply to post by ProRipp
 


No energy is being created here... that is just stupid and silly. Energy is coming from the vacuum... I'm referring to the vacuum as it is defined in Quantum Mechanics.


Another FAIL of basic science understanding. QM doesn't "define" a vacuum. It describes it. There is energy in that vacuum. That is a far cry from saying it can be captured and used. If you do the math, IF you can do the math, it works out that the average energy density is one trillionth of an erg per cubic centimeter, so to run a 100 watt bulb for a day, assuming perfect eficiency and no loss anywhere would take10^9 cubic meters times 60 times 60 times 24.
Oh yeah, the thing isn't running in a freakin' vacuum, no matter how loudly our troll screams it. It's running in a sea of ordinary matter - oxygen, nitrogen, other trace gases, CO2, water vapor. Stuff we can see, which by defintion rules out dark anything.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by 4nsicphd

Oh yeah, the thing isn't running in a freakin' vacuum, no matter how loudly our troll screams it. It's running in a sea of ordinary matter - oxygen, nitrogen, other trace gases, CO2, water vapor. Stuff we can see, which by defintion rules out dark anything.


Huh???

We can see oxygen, nitrogen, CO2 and water vapor around us, so therefore there can be no dark energy or vacuum energy?

Not sure I follow the logic there. And you have a PHD?



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by MajorDisaster
Do you really think you'll ever be able to get the skeptics to change their tune though?


Very easy to do - actually make one that works, then have it properly tested and posted in a peer reviewed journal - but of course they refuse to do that as they do not do what they claim!


I remember when an ATS member did the Bedini "School Girl Motor" experiment and got a COP of around 1.3 - indicating Overunity - and, you could have heard a pin drop in the thread. What should have been huge news - "Wow, an ATS member with an overunity device!" - was met with complete and utter silence.


Because they did not have a over unity device....


Bottom line, yes ZPE and Overunity devices do exist, and there are a small handful of people such as Bedini who really have something. The problem is that the people in the world with the requisite money and power to actually start producing large quantities of these things refuse to do it.


You ignore the little fact that if they actually had a working one they could just apply for and win the US$1 million JREF prize, then they would also win the US$1.4 million Nobel Prize for Physics, and then with the US$2.4 million they would have enough money to start making them themselves, with a assured market in the billions of dollars.

So why dont they do that? Why doesnt Bedini do that - simply because they do not work as claimed!

Funny how in this day and age some people still believe snake oil salesmen!



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by MajorDisaster
 





There comes a point in every Free Energy thread where all the useful information has been posted and any further arguing back and forth with skeptics becomes an exercise in futility, and you may be just about there


My sentiments exactly. For some reason the trolls and skeptics have the energy to go on and on about how there is nothing. Sort of ruins the thread.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by dereks

Because they did not have a over unity device....


LOL. How would you know that? Were you there?




You ignore the little fact that if they actually had a working one they could just apply for and win the US$1 million JREF prize, then they would also win the US$1.4 million Nobel Prize for Physics, and then with the US$2.4 million they would have enough money to start making them themselves, with a assured market in the billions of dollars.

So why dont they do that? Why doesnt Bedini do that - simply because they do not work as claimed!


You're assuming that extremely powerful vested interests don't actively suppress these technologies and prevent people from getting the funding they need.


Anyway, Bedini does have a product on the market - the Renaissance Charger. Granted it's not yet the robust generator that can power your home or your car that everyone wants to see, but it's a good start.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by MajorDisaster
You're assuming that extremely powerful vested interests don't actively suppress these technologies and prevent people from getting the funding they need.


As I said, there is a easy US $2.4 million for them if the device worked as claimed....


Anyway, Bedini does have a product on the market - the Renaissance Charger.


that is not a overunity device....

[edit on 21/12/09 by dereks]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by TheComte
 



Or, how about this one: fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... You know how it ends.


......you......you can't get fooled again???????


But seriously - a ho-hum for renewable energy that proves once and for all we've all been duped by scientists with their "laws" and politicians with their "energy companies"????

It goes a ho-hum?

Sounds like someone stands to loose a lot of money with this new technology



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by MajorDisaster

Originally posted by 4nsicphd

Oh yeah, the thing isn't running in a freakin' vacuum, no matter how loudly our troll screams it. It's running in a sea of ordinary matter - oxygen, nitrogen, other trace gases, CO2, water vapor. Stuff we can see, which by defintion rules out dark anything.


Huh???

We can see oxygen, nitrogen, CO2 and water vapor around us, so therefore there can be no dark energy or vacuum energy?

Not sure I follow the logic there. And you have a PHD?

If space is filled with normal hadrons and leptons, the virtual antiquarks which inhabit a Dirac vacuum would violently anihilate. And if the vacuum is posited to carry zero point energy, that status would be quickly upset by the atmospheric molecules at about 300 degrees K.
And we can see all those gases. It only takes a spectrophotometer or x-ray diffraction detector. And it's not the fact we can see it, it's the fact that it is there and not at its lowest energy state.At ZPE energy states, the particles should all obey Einstein-Bose statistics.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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For those who came in late:

Source: Scientific American




FOLLOW-UP: What is the 'zero-point energy' (or 'vacuum energy') in quantum physics? Is it really possible that we could harness this energy?

The earlier replies to this question established the implausibility of drawing on the zero point energy for practical use. Matt Visser of Washington University in St. Louis adds some technical details:

The Zero Point Energy (ZPE) is an intrinsic and unavoidable part of quantum physics. The ZPE has been studied, both theoretically and experimentally, since the discovery of quantum mechanics in the 1920s and there can be no doubt that the ZPE is a real physical effect. The "vacuum energy" is a specific example of ZPE which has generated considerable doubt and confusion. In a completely empty flat universe, calculations of the vacuum energy yield infinite values of both positive and negative sign--something that obviously does not correspond to the nature of the real world.

Observation indicates that in our universe the grand total vacuum energy is extremely small and quite possibly exactly zero. Many theorists suspect that the total vacuum energy is exactly zero.
...
John Baez is a member of the mathematics faculty at the University of California at Riverside and one of the moderators of the on-line sci.physics.research newsgroup. He adds some context:

"The concept of vacuum energy shows up in certain computations in quantum field theory, which is the tool we use to conduct modern particle physics. In reality, particles interact with one another through a variety of forces. This is a complicated business, so in quantum-field theory we start by studying an idealized model in which particles do not interact at all. This is called a 'free-field theory.' Then we use this free-field theory as the basis for studying the 'interacting-field theory' we are really interested in.

"In quantum-field theory, the vacuum state is defined to be the state having the least energy density. Something funny happens when we use a free-field theory to study an interacting-field theory: the vacuum state of the free-field theory is different from vacuum state of the interacting-field theory. The vacuum state of the interacting-field theory may have more or less energy than that of the free-field theory; the difference is called the vacuum energy.

"One should not take this vacuum energy too literally, however, because the free-field theory is just a mathematical tool to help us understand what we are really interested in: the interacting theory. Only the interacting theory is supposed to correspond directly to reality. Because the vacuum state of the interacting theory is the state of least energy in reality, there is no way to extract the vacuum energy and use it for anything.

"It is a bit like this: say a bank found it more convenient (for some strange reason) to start counting at 1,000, so that even when you had no money in the bank, your account read $1,000. You might get excited and try to spend this $1,000, but the bank would say, 'Sorry, that $1,000 is just an artifact of how we do our bookkeeping: you're actually flat broke.'

"Similarly, one should not get one's hope up when people talk about vacuum energy. It is just how we do our bookkeeping in quantum field theory...."



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by 4nsicphd
 


Obviously you're smarter than those who have developed this device, and therefore that's why you're on ATS trolling and not out making some revolutionary devices of your own.

Cool.

I could of repeated what you just said by a good 20 minutes of reading. The only thing I see you stating that is a fact, is that you're obviously not as rich as the steorn team will be.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by Revolution-2012
 





The only thing I see you stating that is a fact, is that you're obviously not as rich as the steorn team will be.


The essential difference being, of course, that the Steorn team will have made any money they have by defrauding their marks. In more blunt words: theft.

Of course Steorn, when eventually confronted about the scam, will say "what do you mean we lied to you? Did you or did you not see the battery?" And they will have an argument: who was it who said "fools and their money are soon parted".



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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reply to post by rnaa
 


So what you are saying is that ZPE is a theory devised solely to make another theory easier to work out? Seems like someone needed to just cut to the chase !



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


No.

ZPE is not a theory being used to make another theory easy to work out. ZPE is the minimum energy state of a system, not a theory.

The physicists that work with it are saying that the concept of 'vacuum energy' is a phantom artifact of studying the real world using an idealized, simplified version of reality.

"Free Field Theory" is a tool used to study the much more difficult "Interacting Field Theory". FFT is not the real world, IFT is the real world. The ZPE is different between the two precisely because one is real world and the other is not.

Its a mathematical 'trick', and nothing more.

This kind of trick is used all the time. If you have studied High School physics you will have seen statements like "if we ignore air resistance or do our experiment in a vacuum, a feather and an iron ball released at the same time from the same height will hit the ground at the same time". But of course if you do the experiment in air, that just will not happen.

Its the same thing.


Edit: wording improved


[edit on 22/12/2009 by rnaa]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by rnaa
 


So its just a way to remove variables from the test apllied to the theory? Fair enough.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by rnaa
reply to post by TrueBrit
 


No.

ZPE is not a theory being used to make another theory easy to work out. ZPE is the minimum energy state of a system, not a theory.

The physicists that work with it are saying that the concept of 'vacuum energy' is a phantom artifact of studying the real world using an idealized, simplified version of reality.

"Free Field Theory" is a tool used to study the much more difficult "Interacting Field Theory". FFT is not the real world, IFT is the real world. The ZPE is different between the two precisely because one is real world and the other is not.

Its a mathematical 'trick', and nothing more.

This kind of trick is used all the time. If you have studied High School physics you will have seen statements like "if we ignore air resistance or do our experiment in a vacuum, a feather and an iron ball released at the same time from the same height will hit the ground at the same time". But of course if you do the experiment in air, that just will not happen.

Its the same thing.


Edit: wording improved


[edit on 22/12/2009 by rnaa]


Well, Tesla didn't allow his mathematics or fanciful "theories" get in the way of him actually finding things out that would baffle the most ardent "acedemic theoretician." He knew that the energy spikes emitted when a switch is first turned on had properties that defied what scientists thought, and even today, EEs work hard to get rid of those spikes.

The fact is, he DID find ways to do what theoreticians say can't happen, and he was silenced because of it. That is history... no matter how much today's "scientists" want to deny it.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by DataWraith
 


What are you talking about, no videos?

Steorn have videos on their website, (www.steorn.com) plus they have live streaming video of a prototype continually working...



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by downisreallyup
 


I agree mate.

These 'professional types' are going to be bleating on and on about how it's impossible yada yada ya, until it's brought out and then of course, they'l look like the short sighted pathetic repeating morons (albeit educated morons) they really are.

It's all down to money and power (no pun) at the top, and conceit at the bottom rung.

These lovely people, would try to sabotage or derail anything that threatens to make them look as though they have wasted their lives pursuing a technology that while works, works poorly (conventional energy generation), even at the expense of peoples lives, and ultimately our world itself...

I *cannot* wait for the true freedom these devices will enable, and to see all of the naysayers frantically trying to back pedal, claiming "I didn't say it was impossible, i said there was no proof" etc etc.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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Hi all,

I have been following this Steorn saga since the first Advertisement in the Economist in 2006 for the Jury of scientists to come and look at their technology. Steorn said that the reason for the jury was because the normal scientific establishment (universities and the like) would not look at their technology, or the ones that did look at it didn’t want to go public with any validation of it for various reasons.

So Steorn advertised for a panel of scientists to come and look at this technology over a set period. A demo using a variant of the Orbo technology which was based on only permanent magnets failed when they attempted to to show it a couple of years ago.

The Jury eventually came back with a result, however due to various reasons (lack of data etc.) the scientists decided that there was not enough information to provide a verdict and therefore released a report saying that as far as they knew the Orbo technology did not produce more energy that it consumed.

Since then Steorn have been working on putting together a new demo where they would give a full demonstration of there technology. This is the demo that is being shown in Dublin right now.

On Saturday they did a live experiment (streamed on the web and live in the Waterways centre) to show that their Orbo did not produce counter-electromagnetic force when a load was placed on it. This supposedly is what gives Orbo the ability to produce more power than it can consume. As normally CEMF increases as a load is placed on a motor causing you to input more current to generate more kinetic energy.

Since that talk took place, various people have picked apart the experiment, asked questions etc. and Steorn will be re-visiting the initial talk and improving the experiment with suggestions to try to resolve concerns etc. These new experiments and the rest of the demonstration will resume in early January 2010.

However, since the talk on Saturday, third parties have tried replicating the toriodal coil system and have successfully used it to electronically shield the core of the coil from a magnet (experiments have been posted on YouTube). So it is possible that the device IS doing what Steorn are saying that it is doing.

Steorn have said that there will be more experiments shown in a step-by-step basis all the way up to a full comparison of the input vs output of the Orbo towards the end of the demonstration period (end of January), along with third party validation.

So it looks like we don’t really have much longer to wait before we will see if they are telling the truth or not.

What I find interesting about the whole thing is the fact that it seems to split people down the middle - not sceptical to believer, but closed to open minded people. Just because something hasn’t ever been done, does not mean that it will never be done. Surely previous history has shown this.

If this doesn’t work - then it is just another company with a technical gizmo that didn’t work as expected. If it does work - then it has the potential to change human society for good.

January looks like it is going to be interesting however the outcome, but I hope for the latter, but we shall see.

-Keeval-



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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I'm surprised there's still a positive spirit going in this thread. Like pointed out by someone else FE threads usually have the most constructive things at the start, the longer they live the more trolls and blockheads they attract.

I find it funny how people see science as this entity that is most sacred and can only be commented on by someone who has been brainwashed most of his life of what is possible and what is impossible.

In the last century uneducated farmers have performed experiments that will blow the head of your modern "scientist" today. By modern I mean the ones that sold their souls for the annual grant money and cozy armchair their "job" comes with. As long as they troll around places like ATS and ridicule people who want to leave a positive contribution to mankind, they will get fed.

For the rest of us who have small home labs and question even the basic "facts" by experimentation there's no sum big enough and no chair comfortable enough for us to throw away our human morals and ethics.

There's always a balance between good and evil, evil has had the lead for a while now and it's time this balance shifted to good. Either accept the change or perish.






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