UFOs and religion have no connection, none!

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by The Shrike

 

You are all wrong. I left because you are all a bunch of dumb anal cavities. If you all got together one could not come up with an iota of inteligence from all of your wasted brains. You think you are hot s__t because you spouted stupidity, it was so evident.

Since you are all wasting your minds your lives are just as wasted. YOU are what's wrong with this planet.

I've taken better s__its than the crap you all spouted.

Actually, we were all wrong about wy you left the thread because.. you haven't left the thread.

And, kudos on the 'educated' name calling! Way to go, "real deal"!

religion that exists today is definitely related to phenomenon that today is classified as ufo phenomenon.this relation is exoteric. and if a greater revelation occurs with beings of a composition different in sight and similar to light happens where there is conscious transfer of thought.there will be a direct esoteric relationship between "ufo's" and "religion".

Originally posted by The Shrike

You are all wrong. I left because you are all a bunch of dumb anal cavities. If you all got together one could not come up with an iota of inteligence from all of your wasted brains. You think you are hot s__t because you spouted stupidity, it was so evident.

Since you are all wasting your minds your lives are just as wasted. YOU are what's wrong with this planet.

I've taken better s__its than the crap you all spouted.

Apparently you didn't take my advice and you chose to get butthurt.

Instead of debating an argument, you just close your brain off and start calling names, like a dejected 8 year old. Sure the debate ends that way, and your precious paradigms stay protected when you refuse to look at the evidence, but that doesn't by any stretch mean that you won the debate.

You are the equivalent of a little kid sticking his fingers in his ears going "LA LA LA, I can't hear you!". The only one not debating this thread intelligently is you, I'm afraid. Then again, how could an open minded discussion be expected from you. You arrogantly claim that your mind is already closed, no matter what evidence anybody brings forth. There's a word to describe that: ignorance.

I agree with the OP to an extent. I also too believe that UFO's and religion aren't in direct connection with each other, in this I mean that the biblical people could not fathom UFO's to be the space ship flying beings we think they are now, but simply that their appearance in the bible were misinterpretations as angels and demons and such.
This is just what I think, that UFO's were thought to be angels and demons as nothing extra-terrestrial could be fathomed which would make any sense back in the A.D and B.C. times so yes, I do believe the OP has got his point across to me and I agree with it.\



However, I don't think the slandering of religion was necessary but yes we get it, religion is taken to the extreme sometimes.

Originally posted by The Shrike
I'm an educated atheist and my copy of the bible would be considered a researcher's treasure for it's full of notes garnered over many years.

My UFO "resume" would be considered impressive by anyone in the know. I know about UFOs.

Wow! Blowing your trumpet real hard, huh?! The more you blow, the more wind you produce!! And more CO2 resulting in global warming! So let others decide!

So everytime I see a thread on this forum somehow attaching religion(s) to UFOs it irks me.

Oh? That's sad! Ok guys, please stop equating religion with UFOs. It irks the OP!!

We are all still in the dark!

Nope! We are not! Speak for yourself!

Aliens are another subject altogether. And since I don't accept any reports of such, I won't discuss them here.

Thank the lord for small mercies!

Religions have nothing to do with UFOs.

You say that aliens are another subject altogether and that you don't accept it as such. And then you talk about UFOs. Isn't there a connection? Or are all UFOs man made? If not then are some of them alien? Could it be that 'God' is an alien after all? Well, its perception, belief, faith.

For all we know, Christ could have been someone from an advanced ET civilization. How sure are you he wasn't? If he was, then here's a connection....UFOs - aliens - God (Christ) - religion!

QED!

By the way, I don't believe in an orthodox God or religion myself!



[edit on 20-12-2009 by OrionHunterX]

Originally posted by The Shrike
It's not anger, just frustration that humans are in the mental state they're in and they don't recognize it. I am not arrogant, just confident whereas most aren't so they see it as arrogance. I'm sure that I do not affect those with full confidence in themselves. It is always the weaker-minded that feels challenged. However, I am cocksure of myself. I've achieved a lot through diligence.

So how were you before you "achieved all this through diligence"? Did you start off with a weaker mind and made it "stronger", or what?

As for UFOs, even if you think religion is exculsively and in full totality a "control system" devised by people to feed their own power and ego, how could that not mean they couldn't say, see a UFO and then weave it into the control system, maybe try to induce fear by claiming this UFO is something that will strike at them if they don't follow the religion? You also say "There is just no connection because just as we, the secular, do not have an inkling of what UFOs are or where they originate, neither does religion." But why do they need to know what UFOs are to use them in the religion? And if religion is all myth then why couldn't it make up false theories for what UFOs are?

(Note to others here: I don't really know if UFOs did or didn't have anything to do with religion. I tend to lean against it too, but I don't know if this guy's specific arguments prove it, and that's what I'm questioning.)


[edit on 20-12-2009 by mike3]

Originally posted by The Shrike

Religions have nothing to do with UFOs

Shrike, thanks for sharing your opinion but how do you know?


Do you not think UFOs could have been mistaken for gods in the past?


There's an interesting programme here which explores the subject and all those biblical accounts of stationary clouds, sky thrones, fiery chariots, flying rolls, pillars of light, platforms, vessels and fiery wheels in the sky sound pretty intriguing - especialy when the objects are described as exhibiting rapid, prolonged flight; hovering; ascending or descending.

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by The Shrike

Religions have nothing to do with UFOs

Shrike, thanks for sharing your opinion but how do you know?

Phew, talk about reviving the dead! Lazarus ain't got nothing on me! Okay, here's the deal. I'm 72. I started my life in 1938 but it wasn't until 1955 when I left home and joined the Air Force so from that moment I was on my own and could observe the world with a different mindset. From 1955 to 2010 is 55 years times 365 days equals 20,075 days that I've lived and have never seen not only any signs of gods but no sign of any link between UFOs and religion. So my opinion comes from personal experience.

I was born into a catholic family but because I was not mentally conditioned to believe in the myths that constitute the judeo/christian religion I was able to keep an open mind so I knew that until I had a personal experience, it was all fantasy. Thank god!

Then as I matured I educated myself about religions and the evidence is that there is nothing but human experience: you're born, you live, and you die. We don't know anything about before life and we don't know anything about after life. In betwen we can theorize our butts off but that's as far as it goes.

Do you not think UFOs could have been mistaken for gods in the past?

You're mistaking possible awe IF UFOs were witnessed x-years or centuries or more back and control of the mind for that is the result of religion. We really don't know what is shown in old paintings, cave drawings, etc. Not enough detail is available to come to a conclusion. I'm sure primitive man when witnessing something that seemed superior to him/her/them would have considered the source not necessarily a god but something to respect, for "god" is a religious term derived mostly from the jewish bible, which is rife with b.s. and pagliarized material.

Gods, in general, were created by humans to control the weaker minded ones to do their bidding and once that caught on more gods were invented. It's still going on except now the gullible call them "aliens" from other planets/dimensions, etc.

There's an interesting programme here which explores the subject and all those biblical accounts of stationary clouds, sky thrones, fiery chariots, flying rolls, pillars of light, platforms, vessels and fiery wheels in the sky sound pretty intriguing - especialy when the objects are described as exhibiting rapid, prolonged flight; hovering; ascending or descending.

I have a book you'd love and it's a classic and mine is a collectors' item. Look for W. R. Corliss, "Handbook of Unusual Natural Phenomena" (Glen Arm, MD: The Sourcebook Project, 1977). What I can say about the contents of the book is that there is nothing new under the sun! Look the title up at Google and read all of the sources. And go to Google Images and see examples of wondrous celestial phenomena that might have been seen by primitive people.

Check out outrageous photos of sungdogs at:
www.google.com...

[edit on 27-4-2010 by The Shrike]

As a scientist i wouldnt let you into my class

Actually with the help of historians we now have information that all religions feeds back to the same source

But thank you for your effort and time of writing Even though it was nonesense

Originally posted by Archirvion
As a scientist i wouldnt let you into my class

Actually with the help of historians we now have information that all religions feeds back to the same source

But thank you for your effort and time of writing

Even though it was nonesense

If you was a scientist and I was doomed to be in your class, I'd have to investigate your qualifications first! Especially after your 2nd sentence.

Outstanding post Shrike, S&F. You said everything that has needed to be said about these people who like to mix the two subjects together. A lot of these religious ones like to use Ufology to give themselves a sounding board and an audience to preach their fictional tales. It's a shame how many gullible folks have fell for their garbage.

As an old abductee, I'm SO glad you settled this issue for me. Now that we have all been informed what's what, I guess there is nothing to discuss.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
Outstanding post Shrike, S&F. You said everything that has needed to be said about these people who like to mix the two subjects together. A lot of these religious ones like to use Ufology to give themselves a sounding board and an audience to preach their fictional tales. It's a shame how many gullible folks have fell for their garbage.

Thanks for the nice words, Jocko Flocko. Intelligent skepticism should be the goal of all interested in UFOlogy. Unfortunately, common sense, reason, and logic are as far away from most as are the planets they think contain life! It takes work to develop the three and very few achieve that clarity because they are believers without realizing why they are believers. Which is due to mental conditioning. How religious believers link religion to UFOs and/or aliens is a mystery for I do not see any links except those created by the religious believers themselves.

If aliens (non-humans, not necessarily ETs) were to interact with humans, I don't think that they would perpetuate human myths. Whether the aliens would be able to do anything about the insiduosness of religions is another unknown. I fantasize aliens putting all believers of all religions into a deep sleep and cleansing their minds of their beliefs. Soft of as a mass cult deprogramming! The could be the biggest favor aliens could do for these lost "souls". The resulting scene would be like the one in "YELLOW SUBMARINE" where the people that were put into their stupor by the Blue Meanies are "awakened" by the Beatles' music. Oh, joy!

My theory is, UFOs and religion do have a connection...but it might not be what a lot of people think..... What people saw back then wasnt Jesus or Angels, it was ET and UFO's.

I mean, think about it - You are living during a time in which seeing something like a Jet plane or Helicopter flying would shock you. Then you have these people exit these craft and bring forth technologies that are more or less centuries ahead of the current times for that time. So yeah, these people look up to these "Ancient Astronauts" as some form of deity and probably even pray to them.

Read the Ezekiel story in the old Testament. Its amazing and has ET/UFO's written all over it.

There is too much evidence supporting this theory. Cave drawings, drawings on sarcophagi etc depicting what some think the Greys look like today....or even depicting a man in an Astronaut suit.

Oh dear, it looks like The Shrike is back for another round (nice to see you've still got life for an old chap). The stories in the ancient biblical texts are very similar to the UFO phenomenon, and I can now say that with great certainty after my personal experiences in England. Ofcourse, The Shrike dismisses said "anecdotal" claims, which is why I always tell people to allow their intuitions to become their authorities and not lend over their decision-making process to authority figures of any kind, whether they're parents, teachers, professors, scientists, or [especially] close-minded, annoying skeptics on internet message boards.

reply to post by Aliensun


""As an old abductee, I'm SO glad you settled this issue for me. Now that we have all been informed what's what, I guess there is nothing to discuss. ""

If you have some proof or evidence to support this claim of abduction then by all means bring this evidence forth and present it. Video, images, reports, etc.. Maybe there was a Jesus memo leaked by the USAF years ago during a mass Jesus sighting or something.

Originally posted by -Blackout-
My theory is, UFOs and religion do have a connection...but it might not be what a lot of people think..... What people saw back then wasnt Jesus or Angels, it was ET and UFO's.

The Shrike: "But the discussions are not talking about what you specify. What the discussions center on is the judeo/christian god, Indian gods, etc., in other words modern religions rife with demons, angels, etc., as found, mostly, in the jewish bible (which does NOT include the new testament)."

I mean, think about it - You are living during a time in which seeing something like a Jet plane or Helicopter flying would shock you. Then you have these people exit these craft and bring forth technologies that are more or less centuries ahead of the current times for that time. So yeah, these people look up to these "Ancient Astronauts" as some form of deity and probably even pray to them.

TS: "We don't know what the ancients saw and whether there was any interaction. Perhaps if there was any interaction it would have been because the visitors would have been aware of the humans' ignorance which would not have presented the danger that is possible now with a warmongering race."

Read the Ezekiel story in the old Testament. Its amazing and has ET/UFO's written all over it.

TS: "Only to those who are bent mentally that way. I'm not one of them. We have no concept of what was seen if anything!"

There is too much evidence supporting this theory. Cave drawings, drawings on sarcophagi etc depicting what some think the Greys look like today....or even depicting a man in an Astronaut suit.

TS: "Cave drawings represent mainly everyday animals, mostly, and people and, yes, at least one shows a very advanced being in what we no call a spacesuit. But there doesn't seem to be any information available as to how old the drawings are and to me they smack of modernism. The evidence, when and if it becomes available will settle that. But there doesn't seem to be any scientist working on it."

Originally posted by hermantinkly
Oh dear, it looks like The Shrike is back for another round (nice to see you've still got life for an old chap). The stories in the ancient biblical texts are very similar to the UFO phenomenon, and I can now say that with great certainty after my personal experiences in England. Ofcourse, The Shrike dismisses said "anecdotal" claims, which is why I always tell people to allow their intuitions to become their authorities and not lend over their decision-making process to authority figures of any kind, whether they're parents, teachers, professors, scientists, or [especially] close-minded, annoying skeptics on internet message boards.

I've been on this forum for many years under various nom de plumes so I'm not "back." Yes, once in a while I get fed up with the obvious stupidity of some (more than some!) members and I stay away. But since there's something worth reading once in a while, I'm drawn back. A weakness I'm not happy with.

You can read whatever you like into anything. The jewish bible does not mention UFOs, aliens, etc. Those are strictly personal decipherment. Not everyone deciphers the same meaning from ancient words that are themselves translated over and over.

So until something solid comes down the pike everything will always be considered anecdotal. Evidence breaks the spell.

You can't counsel the mentally-conditioned. They're in a non-realistic display so they cannot arrive at reasonable conclusions because they can't employ reason, common sense, and logic. Only those with an unencumbered mind can do so.


[edit on 27-4-2010 by The Shrike]

You can't counsel the mentally-conditioned. They're in a non-realistic display so they cannot arrive at reasonable conclusions because they can't employ reason, common sense, and logic. Only those with an encumbered mind can do so.

The thing to realize though, is that for many who are religious, it is not just a belief system, it is their reality, so expecting them to divorce themselves from that reality simply isn't going to happen. They will frame their experiences within that world view. You are ASSUMING it is an incorrect view, and you may be right, or they may be right...we simply don't know. Einstein certainly believed in God, would you decry him as ignorant?

That said, there's no reason this subject can't be calmly discussed without nasty personal attacks (or attacks on the membership as a whole)...(it only weakens one's position anyway....), so I'd ask that all participants please adhere to this basic condition of the site....

There is also the possibility that such beings (or even just craft sightings) appeared to ancient man, and were thus thought of as gods. In this case, UFOs and religion would most certainly be "related"...as it could have been a direct influence (for all we know....we simply don't know)....

During the latest years the UFO parts of this forum has become full of threads and answers regarding religion. Personally I would prefer if they kept that part of the discussions in the mythological beasts or somewhere similar.