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UFOs and religion have no connection, none!

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posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by HankMcCoy
[snipped]
And, again, I have never seen any religious writing that emanated from anything connected with my definition of UFOs. Can you illuminate me/us on where the linking of nuts-and-bolts UFOs and whatever religion occurs?
[edit on 14-12-2009 by The Shrike]


It seems to be that Steven Greer's fantasitical belief system is akin to a religion, and it's VERY much based on the premise of nuts & bolts alien spacecraft and alien technology. Greer believes that the aliens and their amazing abilities will afford humanity the chance to reconnect with our cosmic heritage. If that's not the definition of a religion, I don't know what is!




posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by The Shrike
 


you havent read the bible then have you?




posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by hermantinkly
 





To claim that you know absolutely anything for certain (like there not being a God) is a bit of an arrogant leap of ignorance, wouldn't you agree?


On one hand, yes. I admit, I am not the know all of everything- otherwise, I'd have figured out women and be ruling the universe.


On the other: Let's look at track records. Let's look at the outlandish, ridiculous, and grandiose claims by the UFO/ 'religion' crowd. What do we have? NOTHING. No real hard evidence, no real, truthful facts, not a shred of anything.

After the whole Christian Church debacle- I want irrefutable, concrete, and undeniable evidence and facts. I dont jibe with promises of '(insert deity or alien of choice here) will (cure you, take away your pain, bring your dog back from the dead, make you rich, etc)'. Been there. Done that. Even had a tshirt. I stand by 'I'll wait til they land somewhere public' because I have heard all the promises, the sweet words, and the claims. I refuse to be led astray by said things ever again- because there is nothing but fluff in words. Actions are Much like hard currency. They spend well. Words are like checks. They bounce when there's insufficient funds to back them up. Bounced too many checks, now I want 'cash'.

Now do you get MY reasoning?



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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Just the mere fact that we point to the sky whenever referring to GOD and such , as well as the ancient astronauts makes me believe that UFO s and their occupants and our concept of God and subsequent religion go hand in hand.

With the holiday season upon us, I was just recently thinking of the Jesus story and the guiding star of Bethlehem which as we now know that stars don't just appear out of no where but artificial satellites can look just like stars, especially to the ancients makes me believe that it in itself was a UFO.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 05:22 PM
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Ufo's are only based in this dimension, other dimensions remain clueless. As your youtube mentions it. But I still don't understand where you're coming from?

In any case what happens to the world of religion and ufo's come together?



If by chance aliens did cause the God of the bible I would believe that there would be scrolls and text of "alien abductions" such we have today. Or you can just say the aliens disguised themselves to look like a human God and mind washed ezekiel.
I have to agree that alien did come down to earth and taught mankind. But I believe that fallen angels did this as well.



[edit on 15-12-2009 by Jordan River]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by The Shrike
UFOs are an age-old mystery. At no time since the first recording of strange aerial objects, who knows when, has anyone every been able to explain what they are and where they originate. Perhaps, like the various nations on earth there is more than one source. But, again, this is strictly speculation on my part just as any other explanation by anyone anywhere is also speculation. Thousands or millions or books later, thousands or millions of lectures later, thousands of FOIA requests to government agencies later, many years of someone somewhere starting a "disclosure" (trust me it's not a new idea), NOTHING has ever shone a light on what UFOs are or where they originate. We are all still in the dark!


We have a very good idea on how UFOs operate and it has nothing to do with god(s).

We know they use ion propulsion and an exotic form of fusion. Unfortunately our current understanding of the universe (ie fusion processes) is limited especially when we restrict ourselves to flawed “standard” scientific models which claim such processes require millions of degrees.

Nothing in our current science text books can explain why UFOs have been observed to eject molten metal, have sulfurous smell, eject pressurized/ ionized gas, exhibit unlimited electrical potential and siphon water from natural resources.

However, everything makes perfect sense when we consider other scientific models that are supported by examples in nature and lab observations. I am specifically referring to cold fusion (a.k.a. LENR/CANR), Expanding Earth, electric universe and the Birkeland Sun model. (Cold fusion has already been confirmed by Navy scientists but you will not see this fact in the nightly news. )

At first, these alternative scientific models may appear completely unrelated but they all suggest that low energy nuclear reactions (LENR) are a reality. With LENR there is no need to achieve millions of degrees as standard fusion theory dictates.


[edit on 15-12-2009 by platoslab]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Pappa_Bear
 


What you said is all well and good. But remember that I'm talking primarily about major established religions in the present such as christianity, islam, hinduism, buddhism, judaism and others.

Whatever happened in the past to - Egyptians, Greeks, Chinese, etc. - is unknown except for the written record and the written record cannot be really be relied upon for they contain fantasies and those fantasies, seen with modern eyes, are accepted as fantasies and not reality. Do you really believe that the Indians had nuclear-type weapons? Or aircraft? I watch TV documentaries and am aware of how advanced the Chinese were for example, but at no time do they claim the same type of sophistication that is found in Indian writings which, in my opinion, are simply fantasies. Why not? Right from the getgo, humans fantasied when they looked up and saw unexplainable natural phenomena, birds of all types and sizes, volcano eruptions, earthquakes, etc. And since they couldn't explain these because they hadn't developed their scientific thinking, stories were created.

Ancient humans see a bird and if he or she is mentally developed they'll carve a wooden model of one and they'll keep improving it until it glides. That doesn't mean there were airplanes in the past before the Wright Brothers and those who may have preceded them. Gliders came first, though.

So, allow the ancients their fantasies. But we know better.


[edit on 15-12-2009 by The Shrike]

[edit on 15-12-2009 by The Shrike]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by Traumacrazy
thanks seattletruth that was interesting ...i needed that


but The Shrike...how do you know there is no god, that there is no connection to aliens or ufo?

see here...you may think you know...but you don't

matter of fact none of us do so quit acting like your "all knowing" like nearly all skeptics on ATS

how come nearly every atheist i'v met...they always seem angry


My friend, it seems you need to finish your education. Especially about religion.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by wylekat
 


It sounds to me like you have the makings of a very interesting thread. Of course, the more outrageous you get, the more you will be challenged possibly even by me because, as you may know, hearsay carries no weight. Detailed descriptions help but without evidence to convince anyone of what you claim goes with the territory. Give it a try, I'd look forward to reading your experienes.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by hermantinkly
 


I may not have said it previously but ignorance must be bliss, right hermanstinky?



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by Wh00pS
I will be totally honest here and admit i havn't read past the first page of replies as i hate reading religously bigoted nonsense.
For me the biggest connection is that both areas seem to be followed by about 99% blind belief nutcases.


You've pointed out exactly what is wrong with the human race, the majority anyhows.

It is aggravating but I knew what I was getting myself into. I've found through the years I've been on the web, since the '90s, that most forum attendants are not really that intelligent and because they're not that intelligent they don't see how unintelligent they are. It is difficult to convince religious believers that they are not their own person but are slaves. That's what mental conditioning is all about: control.

Those who don't study the mind and realize that beliefs are created by mental conditioning are the victims of such. A study will find that those associated with the mind are usually clear as to the power of the mind and how easily it can be manipulated. Look at what stage hypnotists are able to do to their subjects. Positive and negative hallucinations, for one.


[edit on 15-12-2009 by The Shrike]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
If I had a dollar for everyone who said religion was created to control the masses, I would have been a millionaire by now.


Doesn't that tell you something?


It really is not that simple, religion has evolved out of various needs by early humans in order to understand the world better and their relationship with it, their origins and their purpose and to create common moral codes that would bring people together. This has allowed these early societies to form civilisation, leading to the development of science and arts. Thus the earliest attempts at philosophy, art and science are found in very religious socieites. Such as Sumeria and Egypt.


You need to study your history a little more. "...leading to the development of science..."? Tell that to Galileo!


Later on in the history of civilisation religion takes on a more complex character and becomes more about abstract thinking and this leads to developments in scientific reasoning, more expressive art and the concepts of democracy. As well as the emergence of more abstract and complex concepts of god(ontological god) and monotheistic thinking.


Religions suppress, they are not creative. There were/are no gods. Humans created the gods. Tell me where the Greek, Roman, and Egyptian gods are now in the 21st century. Only the jews have held on to their myths.


In modern times religion has become more spiritual and universalist. It is more about self-development and realising happiness and peace for the world and unity of everything. It is now that we are seeing concepts like human rights and civil rights for everybody.


Religions don't lead to self-development! Only hard work and educaction do that.


Therefore religion has been at the heart of the development of civilisation and the driving force behind it. If you take out religion, civilisation would collapse around the world. It is the binding force that keeps humanity together and motivates it to progress.


You've lost track of the thread's intent and, as is normal for religious believers, you're lost in your own religious miasma.


You are wrong that we are born atheist. Atheism is a modern phenomenon and it was born out of reaction to theism. From the birth of man, man has had a religious tendency. In every premodern culture you look at, in any part of the world, man since time immemorial has worshipped deities. It is safe to conclude the religious tendency to worship something greater than us is innate. This natural drive towards something greater is the reason why we progress at all. If it was not there, we would not have civilisation in the first place.


You, like most religious believers, have no concept of what atheism is. Look it up. But that won't help you because you won't see the logic behind an explanation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lastly, although I tend to agree with you that the connections between UFO's and religions are spurious, nonetheless you cannot deny the possibility that the extensive descriptions of angels descending from the heavens or gods coming from the stars found in religions throughout the world may indeed be ancient descriptions of UFO's and ET. If you cannot even concede the possibility, then you are being unreasonable to say the least.


You're hopeless.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by astronomine
People have done some decent research to support their viewpoints. Since you are disputing their research, may I see yours?

I also believe religion has been twisted and used for nefarious purposes in recorded history, but I would like to know your reasoning beyond your opinion on a subject (religion) you may know everything/nothing about.


No one that has replied has done any decent research for if they had, they would have emerged better educated about the reality of religion, any religion. Don't you see the effect of religions on our world? Control. Wars. Those people who blow themselves up killing a lot of "innocents" are following religious beliefs and they were being controled by those who they saw as their religious authority.

Besides I started the thread to discuss the non-existent link between UFOs and religions.

But all religions have been nothing but man's worst invented concept.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by mahajohn
 


You are well read but you have allowed yourself to believe a lot of modern, popular bs. You admit you are a believer in UFOs where I'm not a believer in anything and I am a UFO accepter: I accept them as real because I've experienced them. I never believed in anything and I'm not about to start now especially as I've educated myself on mind processes. Learn clinical hypnosis. Trust me, your belief system will go by the wayside.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by mahajohn

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by HankMcCoy
[snipped]
And, again, I have never seen any religious writing that emanated from anything connected with my definition of UFOs. Can you illuminate me/us on where the linking of nuts-and-bolts UFOs and whatever religion occurs?
[edit on 14-12-2009 by The Shrike]


It seems to be that Steven Greer's fantasitical belief system is akin to a religion, and it's VERY much based on the premise of nuts & bolts alien spacecraft and alien technology. Greer believes that the aliens and their amazing abilities will afford humanity the chance to reconnect with our cosmic heritage. If that's not the definition of a religion, I don't know what is!


No, this isn't what my thread is about. I was "complaining" about the linking of UFOs and religion, namely the judeo/christian religion although other religions are included. But it looks like the majority of the religious believers on this forum love to talk about jesus, angels, satan, devils, etc., and some quote the jewish bible when it has nothing to do with christianity. Let me tell you, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls dealt a death blow to those who wanted to link christianity to the jewish bible and there is nothing about christianity in the Dead Sea Scrolls!

So, the many threads here linking the above religious subjects to UFOs is what irks me because the threads are not being created with common sense, reason and logic which are missing from any religious argument whether with UFOs or otherwise.

Greer's belief system is his own although shared by many and that's his support strength, like thinkers. In reality, it doesn't matter what Greer thinks, he doesn't think for humanity. He has no concept of what an alien is or whether they exist. You're lost in his belief system, I'm not.


[edit on 15-12-2009 by The Shrike]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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ROFLMAO, another self-professed "intellectual" atheist.


Religion: religions are strictly mental processes.
Errr... what is NOT a mental proces? All intellectual activity finds its origin there.

As for religions causing wars, etc. Please don't go there and make me put up a list of atrocities by atheists.
Heck, I could also claim atheism leads to false scientific deductions and even substantiate this with historical arguments!

[edit on 15-12-2009 by jclmavg]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by SuperSlovak
reply to post by The Shrike
 


you havent read the bible then have you?



Why don't you visit me in NYC and I'll show you my bible. I've entered more facts into it than you are probably aware of. I'll also let you browse through my copy of McKinsey's "THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BIBLICAL ERRANCY" - 553 pages! And other associated volumes. You bet the bible is errant, all over the place. Quick, how many apostles did jesus have?

And that painting you included to bolster your intended "argument" doesn't hold water. It's been discussed here many times and I've added my 2 cents which were not questioned.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by wylekat
 


Look out, Aliens and UFOs religious members, the troops are putting the wagons in a circle!



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by nh_ee


Just the mere fact that we point to the sky whenever referring to GOD and such , as well as the ancient astronauts makes me believe that UFO s and their occupants and our concept of God and subsequent religion go hand in hand.

With the holiday season upon us, I was just recently thinking of the Jesus story and the guiding star of Bethlehem which as we now know that stars don't just appear out of no where but artificial satellites can look just like stars, especially to the ancients makes me believe that it in itself was a UFO.


Where is the sky? The Australians point elsewhere. Is your god down there, or up here in the north (IF you're in the north!). Ancient astronauts? Where is your evidence that they're real? You obviously believe von Daniken! The jesus story? Find evidence that he really existed and don't refer to the new testament, that's not evidence. Satellites in ancient times? You certainly are a religious dreamer.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by The Shrike
You, like most religious believers, have no concept of what atheism is.
For someone so intellectual your answers tend to be rather on the short, dismissive side.


In any case, you seem to be a typical case of a "new atheist" Dawkinite; short on facts, but bulging with poor rethoric. When a supposed "I merely don't believe in a god" turns into a full-fledged pro-active movement with t-shirts, conferences, stickers on busses, etc. one just knows something foul is stinking up the place.

It would be akin to disliking a tv-show and going so far as to get it off the air via every means possible.

Obviously the disctinction between weak and strong atheism (the delusional, rabid type) is lost on you. There's a difference in claiming a theistic god does not exist or simply choosing not to believe in a creator.



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