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The Adam, Eve and Lucifer show

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posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by theonlyrusty


A2D....

And WHO created the "satans"?

Using only speculation because nowhere do I have a source that says who created the satans...I will say God because from my knowledge, God is the only one with the power to create....


And WHO created the "feelings" or emotions of guilt and shame?

These feelings are manifest through spirit....they're not created...they just ARE...


And who gave man the ability to "think" about it?

And yet again...manifest through spirit...the ability to think is a characterisitc of spirit...it just IS...


We may or may not know the "truth" of 911, JFK, Atlantis, etc., but am I just gonna lay down and believe a bunch of stuff that was written 1000's of years ago (maybe) cause I am told, "IT"S gods' word". I don't think so...


That's the beauty of it all. You don't have to. You have the right to believe whatever you want to believe. I'm not here to say what is right and what is wrong because...well...I don't live your life. However, when you start speculating, I can jump in and speculate right along side you....

I believe in my instinct...my intuition...my natural ability to tell when someone is trying to deceive me....I believe that I have the ability to tell what is truth from what is false....I believe I am right...BUT I DON'T BELIEVE YOU ARE WRONG....

A2D




posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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There's plenty of information out there that talk about Adam and Eve more personally. Take a look of the book of adam and even, the epic of gilgamesh. let's not forget about Lillith.

Adam and eve books here

[edit on 15-12-2009 by Jordan River]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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A2D,

I find, for me, that assumption, speculation and "faith" just don't give me the cold hard facts I need to make a rational decision on things.

I look at things pretty black and white. The Adam and Eve thingy is either fact or it is just a story. I don't have enough evidence to prove it as fact.

Here is the part of thought I hardly ever see from some people that post here. I find it refreshing for me.

god created all.
Therefore god created satan.
Therefore god created hell.
Therefore god created the ability for man to think those thoughts.
Therefore god had/has a plan.
Therefore satan is fulfilling gods plan.
Therefore hell is fulfilling gods plan.
Therefore everything good or bad is part of the plan.
Anyone doing "bad" things is fulfilling the plan.
Someone has to be the "bad" one.
Therefore, by being bad, I am fulfilling the plan.

Do I get the same prize as the one that fulfilled the good plan?

Without me, the plan cannot come to be fulfilled. Either way.

There was once a man that was happy. He had 6 beautiful daughters and told them all to be happy. They did many good things for their fellow man. They treated their fellow man with respect and were very abundant. Then one day the man dies.

There is another man that is unhappy. He grew up in less than desirable conditions. He robbed and stole and killed and raped and mutilated little children. He was going to be put to death so he asked a priest to "save him". He accepted jesus as his christ. Then he died.

Which one went to heaven?


peas



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by theonlyrusty
 


wow!! you almost just exactly described a form of satanism I have heard of...I forget who was talking about it...

They said that we are all fulfilling the plan and that we all get our own "separate" heaven....



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:09 PM
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God has probably seen every outcome of every possibility, so he may as well create Man and by doing so give us the choice to decide our own outcome than watching the same TV programme in his head, this time it is us who decides and not him. Obviously there was a perfect setting and now it has been corrupted but at the same time it is a choice now and a battle of right and wrong and in life and death. He probably saw you die before you were born so at least you have a your own path to decide, he may even have seen you go to hell, but again he has left that path to us with the help of faith. Maybe his ideas had to come to life otherwise it would have been a Godless thing to do by not being God.

Maybe since God can do anything maybe he can make him self not know, I know Jesus says only the father knows meaning even he does not know certain days or futures.

[edit on 15-12-2009 by The time lord]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by theonlyrusty


So this "perfect" creator made a flawed creation from his own volition and puts the blame and responsibility of cleaning up the mess on his creation?

Wow!!!!...Sounds like a real intelligent god.

Excuse me if I refrain from sitting in his created heaven playing my silver harp for eternity.

Perfect just means complete or mature.

So the creature was created complete...
...but just like mature humans can become immature with a little alcohol inside...
...this creature got high on himself and power.

Just like a perfect child can later become a criminal...
...it's just the risk you take with freedom...
...freedom means anything is possible, even really bad stuff.




posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by theonlyrusty
 


I don't believe the whole "tree of knowledge" and "apple" story...

I believe Adam & Eve were tempted...but not with the fruit of a tree...


So you believe in Adam and Eve.

Enough said.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 07:47 PM
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I think free will should be discussed further fallowing the other replies afterwards. Why freewill? Because God has freewill and he gave that to us. I think other species in this universe work differently than us. I just think so. It's all about choice and yes in the end this world is smoke and mirrors, fake. Nothing is real. we create everything that we know. from chairs to language arts and math. we named out the word math. we count numbers. There has to be something beyond our rational thought of existance. We create but we don't see who started it!



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by tinfoilman
 



Psychopaths and/or sociopaths may not always be the criminal type, I know...However, if they have no conscience, where does the knowledge of sin come from??

A2D

[edit on 14-12-2009 by Agree2Disagree]


You really don't know where the knowledge of sin comes from? For most people it comes from their parents. From you and from me??? Didn't your parents ever tell you what's right and what's wrong?

Like I said, it's not based on guilt. It's based on knowledge. Psycho paths might not feel guilty because they have no emotional conscious, but they have knowledge. Knowledge of right and wrong.

Now if they don't have knowledge of right and wrong, that's what the insanity defense is for. Because sin is not the act, it's the state of mind of the person and the people around them. That's why we have exemptions in the legal system for people that don't know right from wrong, because if they don't, their act wasn't a sin.

Just like an animal that kills it's young. The animal isn't evil, it's just dumb. Unless you suggest going around and rounding up animals that kill their young and giving them the electric chair of course?

Sin comes from knowledge of what's a sin and what isn't, and then once we know what's right and wrong, we can go intentionality sin on purpose and then you have evil.

Without knowledge, just like the wild animals that don't know better, sin and evil could not exist because we'd just be robots going around doing random things without thought.

The tree of knowledge story is just a metaphor for this. Now you can argue against it just for fun if you want, but if you think the act is the sin regardless of if someone knows what they did was wrong or not, then I'll let you be the first one to go out in the forest and start arresting all the animals that"sin" even though they don't know any better. I guess, if you're into that kind of thing???

But if you really can't figure out where the knowledge of right and wrong come from then we've really got problems. Most of the time it's passed down from the parents or whomever raises you from a child.

Now where did the knowledge of right and wrong first come from originally? Well it came from the tree of knowledge. What's the tree of knowledge exactly? I don't know. It's probably some sort of metaphor for something like when humans first evolved conscious or when the aliens came down and genetically engineered us or whatever it is you personally believe.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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How can Lucifer have been the serpent in Eden if he was the guard of the gate at the time ?



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


You're making assumptions that really aren't true.

My parents didn't teach me jack squat to be honest with you. I didn't know lying, theft, adultery, even murder...never considered them sin(until after I had read the bible)....I simply knew they weren't RIGHT.....no one had to TEACH me anything...

The knowledge is inherent. You don't learn that stuff, you just know. I didn't LEARN morals...I was born with them...I didn't learn RIGHT from WRONG...I just always knew...

Just like in the case of my little nephew...he's 3...he'll take the pacifier away from his little sister and then go and hide...because he knows it's wrong...I've never told him it was wrong...his mother never directly tells him it's wrong...his dad never tells him it's wrong...he just knows...all they have to do is say "HEY..." and he knows exactly what they're talking about....

A2D

[edit on 16-12-2009 by Agree2Disagree]



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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how could there be an adam and an eve if we evolved from supposed apes???



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by allyoop
 


Adam was the first ape and Eve was made from his ape-rib.... I guess.....
I'm not sure where the apes come into the picture...




posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 07:26 AM
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A2D.....

Hope you are not implying that I am in some way trying to promote "satanism".

I personally don't believe in it (satanism) so why would I push their agenda.

I am really interested in your opinion, so I would be grateful if you would answer the question I posed.

Which one went to heaven?

I too, am under the hallucination that most of what we learn is "implanted" into our brain by "others". A child comes into this world with a clean slate and we (parents, clergy, schools, media, etc.) color the childs' palette with all sorts of information that is processed into a thought structure that determines the outcome of the child.

The thing that really gets me, is how much "trash" info we put into those little processors that has to be computed into logic. If you tell a young child that god loves him, the first thing he will do is ask you "why". Tell him taking away a pacifier from another(your implanted belief) and he will ask you "why". Sometimes, it is easier for a child to just copy the action of his close society members, than to get answers that compute into logic.

Tell a "child" that you "love him with all your heart but he must fear you to respect you" and see what a screwed up individual you have in later years.
It is impossible for the human brain to compute love and hate at the same time. If you program a childs' brain that 1+2= 0, his output will be wrong from then on. I believe this might be one of the internal problems with society now. We want to know the truth (we are always asking why) but we are given information that does not compute into logic....and it makes mankind "crazy".

That is what I take from reading the bible and other various works. So much conflicting information that the brain cannot come to a logical, rational, unemotional decision. So, in turn, we take the path of least resistance and do the thing that will make us feel good by trying to please others. No one ever had a mother that told them, "I don't care if you don't want to go to church mister. You are gonna get dressed and go to church with us or I am gonna tan that hide". It's amazing to see just what thought patterns come into play from that scenario. Your mind is computing all sorts of things, but in the end, it is trying to avoid pain and seek pleasure.
So, out of "fear", you just went to church. Multiply that by 1000 and you see what the mind is hit with every day....starting at birth.
Tell a child , starting in the womb, that they will be the greatest golfer ever and you get tiger woods.
Tell a child everyday he will end up just like his father or probably end up in prison and you have an inmate.

I still, after posting this question 10 times, have not gotten an answer from anyone. Please give this a try so I can rectify in mind that I am not delusional.

Turn to the first book of your bible (or whatever book you get YOUR truth from) and get a pad of paper and answer these questions.

1.Who was there?
2. Who saw it?
3. Who wrote it down?

I am genuinely curious to see someone else's answers. I would like to see how far someone else has to go into the book before they start getting "logical" answers. I am not trying to disprove anyones "belief" or disprove or prove anything....

I am just the child asking, "WHY?"



peas



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by theonlyrusty
 


No no no no...I was not implying that you are promoting a form of satanism...I was simply noting the similarities in what you said...

As for the questions...


There was once a man that was happy. He had 6 beautiful daughters and told them all to be happy. They did many good things for their fellow man. They treated their fellow man with respect and were very abundant. Then one day the man dies.

There is another man that is unhappy. He grew up in less than desirable conditions. He robbed and stole and killed and raped and mutilated little children. He was going to be put to death so he asked a priest to "save him". He accepted jesus as his christ. Then he died.

Which one went to heaven?


Well see, I can't answer this...as much as I would like to be able to tell you...I don't know. It's not my place to judge who goes to Heaven and who doesn't. I would think that...if the latter man was truly repentant...seriously regretted everything he did in his lifetime....accepted the holy spirit and the conviction that came with it...and asked whole heartedly that his sins be absolved and that Christ took hold of his life...then yes, he'd be forgiven.

I don't know what you're getting at here though....what's the point? Are you trying to imply that people can just do whatever they want while they live and then on their death bed accept Jesus and be saved? Because if you are...I don't think that's the case at all. I think that circumstance hardly ever arises really. In most cases, I would think that this type of "plan" would be premeditated. I don't think God is going to say "okay, this guy just wants to live horribly and ignore my every law that I set in place and then accept me as he's dieing....okay fine by me!!" In the case of "premeditated death bed salvation acceptance", I really don't see it happening......

However, like I said...it's not my place to judge who goes and who doesn't....

A2D



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 08:00 AM
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Adam and Eve is not meant to be taken literally. It tells the story of mankind as we progressed from the idyllic lives of hunter gatherers and took on the lifetime of toil that is farming.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 08:49 AM
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A2D, thanks for clarifying that. I am not "promoting" any agenda in regard to any belief system, only putting forth my observations.

As for, "What's the point?", ....My thoughts exactly!!!! Answer that question and you zoom into "total collective universal consciousness", or so I'm told by others.

The scenarios above do indeed play out everyday. From what I have been told, from the "man with 6 daughters", who happened to preach to prisoners, lots of those on death row do in fact ask for forgiveness and the "jesus as my saviour thing", before being executed. It seems as if they believe it wipes the slate clean so they can get into some sort of "heaven". Does the "preacher" go there as well? I find it hard to believe you have never heard about those that have "turned to the lord", after many years of a "less than perfect" life.. Who is that preacher that has had to make amends so many times? Jimmy Swaggert? Obviously, his rendition of "gods word", that he spews out to the congregation, has a little to be desired......and they STILL send him money!!!! Poor old god can't seem to handle his funds very well.....hahahah

I too, would hate to be the one that has to make the decision of who to let in and who to keep out, if in fact, that were the case of what happens. That is probably why we have stories of St. Peter and such at the pearly gates making those decisions. I'm not sure if he flips a coin or what but it seems rather illogical to me that this is what occurs.

We have so much scientific "fact" about certain things these days that it just seems (to me) that by taking the past stories literally, we actually paint "god" in a rather unintelligent light. Were we "created" based upon "sacred geometry" or did we find out about sacred geometry "because" of our creation?

It is amazing to me that there are people on these boards (no names) that will literally bash you and question your conception (hahahaha) because you ask questions of their "beloved" bible. I find it enlightening and exhilarating to question everything...even down to the very core of, "WHY do I believe what I do?" But, you ask them a question and they won't answer the question, they will just throw programmed thought at you in the form of scripture they have memorized. You ask "Why are dogs here?", and they will just say , "Look at Luke 13:9". ...Sex, See Malachi 4:3.....Car parts, Read Romans 4:54......(sorry, just keeping it light)

Please do a favor for me. Try the "yellow pad" method and post your findings. It might be very enlightening to many. Thanks.

peas



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by theonlyrusty
 


See..I just don't get it...I really don't.


It is amazing to me that there are people on these boards (no names) that will literally bash you and question your conception (hahahaha) because you ask questions of their "beloved" bible.


Do you not see that there are people on these boards that also bash ME because I choose to believe? Everybody has an ego....Everybody thinks they're method of thinking is superior to someone elses...but...it just doesn't matter. People are always going to be unique and answer lifes difficult questions in different ways...that's just how it is. It's time we get over it..

As for the questions...I just answer the questions that are posed. I'm not pushing an agenda either. If you think I'm throwing out memorised answers or just picking verses from the bible...then you haven't asked the right questions...because there are many questions that I will respond with "I don't know".

A2D



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by theonlyrusty
 


Wow. Im really impressed with the responses to this thread and especially this one by TheOnlyTrusty. You make perfect sense here. That is the major problem with our society is the constant deliberate confusing information put out to such a degree its nearly impossible to discern things properly. It takes a lot of practice and focus to waddle through all this crap.

So concerning the Bible and finding a point were its all logical will never happen because the Bible is illogical form its inception. True there are certain positive things that can be gleaned form the messages. But the majority of it is a lie. Its no different then the indigenous peoples in some parts of the world that believe a dragon lives in a volcano. To any sane person thats crazy. Its a cool myth but we know how volcano's work, and it aint no damn dragon getting mad and spewing out fire and lava. Like TOT said the Bible is irrational, illogical and based in fear. I personally never had a choice of attending church or learning this crap. I was forced to as a child. And I was fearful to speak out about it becuase of an ass whipping, lol, like TOT said.

How can a God base his love around fear. The two just dont go together. Thats a gangster mentality. LOL, matter of fact God's system operates just like the mob.

Ok he's the big boss running the show, u never see him, and u cant talk to him directly you gotta go through his goons. He tells you, Yea mane if you follow me Ill give you ever lasting life. So follow me in my fight to defeat, "the devil". But there are conditions. If you fail me or blasphemy in any way I will personally destroy you, because I love you and care for you, with all of my wrath. Now go do my deeds.

There is no difference between that and Al Capone. Its amazing to me. The reason religion is so dangerous and unhealthy is like TOT said its got you in a frantic state and constantly sends out confusing messages. What religion does is put people in a victim/abuser relationship. You are told in church that you cant do nothing, NOTHING without God and that you must give service to him and accept him as the all mighty father. It completely shuts down your ability to empower yourself, which is the whole goal. Then they give messages of "uplift" that contradict the original premise. Its a slave mentality just as much and enlightenment can only be reached at death.

And this mentality is constantly reinforced by other people who just don't know how dangerous this type of thinking is. For instance I listen to the Steve Harvey show in the mornings. They do whats called a Strawberry letter that basically people right in about their problems and Steve and the crew will give advice on it. Now Steve seems like a nice guy, but they constantly push God on that show. Its sickening. So when Steve gives his advice on these letters he will be doing great, giving empowering messages, helping the person see whats really happening, I mean Steve has great discernment. But after he gives all these great messages he turns around and says you need to put it in the hands if GOD. Wow. See the conflicting. LOL we have totally gotten of of the original post question but its good to see you guys keeping it clean and making some good points. Lets keep it up.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by ROBO6
reply to post by theonlyrusty
 


So concerning the Bible and finding a point were its all logical will never happen because the Bible is illogical form its inception. True there are certain positive things that can be gleaned form the messages. But the majority of it is a lie. Its no different then the indigenous peoples in some parts of the world that believe a dragon lives in a volcano. To any sane person thats crazy. Its a cool myth but we know how volcano's work, and it aint no damn dragon getting mad and spewing out fire and lava. Like TOT said the Bible is irrational, illogical and based in fear. I personally never had a choice of attending church or learning this crap. I was forced to as a child. And I was fearful to speak out about it becuase of an ass whipping, lol, like TOT said.


I don't think the bible is based in fear. I think it is based in love and reinforced with fear. What do people do when you care tremendously for them but they think you have no "wrathful" side? They walk all over you right? They treat you like a doormat. The very best analogy is a parent and a child. You give that child too much cushion and he/she is going to start pushing and pushing the limits. They'll get out of control eventually. You gotta have a firm 'I said NO.' and when they disobey...you gotta punish them. It's as easy as that. Sure, it may seem like an irrational "punishment" but who am I to judge. I didn't create you. I mean...I figure if I could create my own humans...and then they disobeyed me willingly...well...I'd think I'd have the right to punish them any way that I want....who is to tell ME what I can do with MY creations?



Ok he's the big boss running the show, u never see him, and u cant talk to him directly you gotta go through his goons. He tells you, Yea mane if you follow me Ill give you ever lasting life. So follow me in my fight to defeat, "the devil". But there are conditions. If you fail me or blasphemy in any way I will personally destroy you, because I love you and care for you, with all of my wrath. Now go do my deeds.


First off, He doesn't ask that you do His deeds. He asks that you love Him and honor Him. If you do that, He'll take care of the rest...Is a relationship too much to ask for? It appears that many more people suffer from commitmentphobia than I had originally thought.....


There is no difference between that and Al Capone. Its amazing to me. The reason religion is so dangerous and unhealthy is like TOT said its got you in a frantic state and constantly sends out confusing messages. What religion does is put people in a victim/abuser relationship. You are told in church that you cant do nothing, NOTHING without God and that you must give service to him and accept him as the all mighty father. It completely shuts down your ability to empower yourself, which is the whole goal. Then they give messages of "uplift" that contradict the original premise. Its a slave mentality just as much and enlightenment can only be reached at death.


Okay, this is just ridiculous. It is not dangerous or unhealthy. What is dangerous and unhealthy is running around thinking you know what is true and what isn't. I will gladly admit I don't know everything. I will not tell you "YOU ARE WRONG". I will not judge your beliefs. Yet, there are many out there that do this to me. That is what is dangerous....They're standing so close to the edge...and yet they're still climbing that mountain called arrogance. I'm just waiting for their footing to slip and slide down to the bottom while I'm standing there waiting for them to welcome them back to the stage of "we just don't know....all we have is BELIEF...."

I have never heard someone in church say "you can't go to work and buy stuff for yourself and support yourself without God". In fact, you're encouraged to do things for yourself and get out there and work hard so that you can prosper. Religious people don't just sit around hoping that God will throw them a bone. Give me a break! The only difference is that the religious send the message of making sure you keep your ego in check. Don't get so thick-headed as to think that you can control every situation...because you can't. Don't get so arrogant as to think that every good thing that happens in your life is because you made it so. AND, what I find ironic about that is, people will take credit for the good in their life and say that they made it happen...but then what happens when they hit a rough patch? Surely they don't look in the mirror and say, "You did this...it was you...." Nope. They sure don't. Instead, a lot of them point fingers to the sky and say "IF YOU WERE THERE GOD, YOU WOULD HAVE STOPPED THIS...WHY DO YOU LET ME SUFFER....IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT THERE HUH?"....Am I the only one that sees the irony?


And this mentality is constantly reinforced by other people who just don't know how dangerous this type of thinking is. For instance I listen to the Steve Harvey show in the mornings. They do whats called a Strawberry letter that basically people right in about their problems and Steve and the crew will give advice on it. Now Steve seems like a nice guy, but they constantly push God on that show. Its sickening. So when Steve gives his advice on these letters he will be doing great, giving empowering messages, helping the person see whats really happening, I mean Steve has great discernment. But after he gives all these great messages he turns around and says you need to put it in the hands if GOD. Wow. See the conflicting. LOL we have totally gotten of of the original post question but its good to see you guys keeping it clean and making some good points. Lets keep it up.


I don't see what's wrong with saying "Put it in the hands of God". Honestly, when I hear that it's more of a "just let it rest" type of ordeal. You put it in the hands of God, forget about it, and then you have the courage to move on. It helps you push through hard times. It gives you courage. It gives you strength... It's not a "don't worry God is going to fix it for you"...because that is most certainly not the case. It's a "leave your problems at the door and get out there and move forward"....Keep on keepin on....don't let it get you down...ENCOURAGEMENT....

Respectfully
A2D



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