People implicated in 9/11

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
In the thread "Did the USAF Help pull off 911?" he contends that the conspirators bought fake planes and flew them remotely into the buildings.

He is, I think, uncertain as to what happened to the real planes.

Yeah, he is the sort that has never seen a conspiracy he didn't like. When it really isn't a conspiracy (I.E. the planes were all holograms) it just means it actually IS a conspiracy (I.E. secret gov't agents are spreading silly conspiracy claims to discredit the truther movement). He may not know what happened to the real planes, but it's a given he'll perceive it'll be something equally sinister.

Don't blame him for thinking this way, though. He's merely the victim in a long line of victims of all this internet conspriacy mongering. All you need to do is go to these damned fool conspiracy web sites to see just how badly they're mind raping him and I don't know how many others by misrepresenting everything and getting people all paranoid over shadows. Come on, now, seriously, these web sites claiming the gov't secretly sent a fake plane into the Pentagon, planted a hundred disinformation agents in the area to act as fake witnesses, planted fake plane wreckage all over the lawn in broad daylight, and released thousands of photo-shopped photographs, sounds more like they're making a bet amongst themselves to see how ridiculous they can make their conspiraces sound before people start questioning it.

For those that don't know about those modified aircraft.


From Tom Flocco.com

by Tom Flocco

Fort Collins, Colorado -- May 26, 2005 -- TomFlocco.com -- Aerial View: Fort Collins-Loveland Municipal Airport

According to two civilian defense contractor employees working at commercial corporate facilities at Fort Collins-Loveland Municipal Airport (left), in the months before the September 11 attacks U.S. Air Force defense contractors brought in A-3 Sky Warrior aircraft under cover of darkness to be completely refitted and modified at the small civilian airport in Colorado.

The revelations are important evidence for a reportedly ongoing secret 9/11 probe because widely available Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) photographs taken during the attacks clearly show that the few aircraft parts found at the Pentagon belonged to a small jet very similar to a modified A-3 Sky Warrior--not the American Airlines Boeing 757.

It is not known whether all members of Congress are aware of the under-the-radar-screen grand jury proceedings, who has already testified, and whether the probe is purposefully being kept from public knowledge, according to government intelligence sources.

A3 SkyWarrior

The two witnesses say that separate military contractor teams--working independently at different times--refitted Douglas A-3 Sky Warriors (above) with updated missiles, Raytheon's Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) remote control systems, fire control systems, engines, transponders, and radio-radar-navigation systems--a total makeover, seemingly for an operation more important than use as a simple missile testing platform for defense contractor Hughes-Raytheon.

The employees asked not to be identified for personal safety reasons and fear of job retaliation; but both told 2008 independent presidential candidate Karl Schwarz "the Air Force brought in separate teams to do top-secret military work unrelated to commercial aviation at our airport, and we were told by our bosses not to discuss what we had seen with anyone."

The witnesses were quite fearful about several recent "suicides, car wrecks--mysterious deaths--directly related to the aviation experts" working on the systems that were installed on the A-3's at Fort Collins-Loveland--having breached the government-blocked information flow at great personal risk, according to Schwarz--but providing more evidence for a New York 9/11 investigation.

Schwarz, a former Republican from Arkansas now living in Georgia and running as an independent to clean up government corruption and crime told TomFlocco.com that he met with the employees for about an hour in February to discuss the issue.

The witnesses told Schwarz that each jet was placed in a hanger just big enough for a work crew and one A-3 Sky Warrior; and "we were under strict orders not to discuss what the military teams were doing or what we saw."

The presidential candidate told us "there are about 150 retired and active U.S. military and federal intelligence officers who will come forward and testify regarding government involvement in the September 11 attacks--but only if there is a serious criminal grand jury."

Small plane evidence moved at Pentagon

The approximate 16-foot entry hole at the outside facade of the Pentagon on 9/11 has been the subject of countless questions by those who say the hole was caused by an air-to-ground missile (AGM) fired from a small military jet rather than an impact from a Boeing 757.

Interestingly, the Hughes division manufactures the AGMs; and the Raytheon division maintains the last few A-3 Sky Warriors in operation save 2-4 Air Force jets--while also manufacturing the Global Hawk UAV remote control systems.

Some reasons cited to support a missile hole include evidence that a) the wings and rear stabilizer caused virtually no damage to the outside walls and windows at point of impact, b) no 757 interior or exterior parts were found at the scene, C-Ring hole in the Pentagon on 9-11 c) the soft nose of a 757 would have had difficulty piercing through three Pentagon wall rings, and d) three aircraft parts found were similar to the somewhat outdated but still serviceable Douglas A-3 Sky Warrior military attack jet rather than the much larger Boeing 757.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
Can you also add to the list 19 guys who couldn't fly a Cessna and some cavemen commanding them telepathically?

Would you mind terribly explaining who you're referring to? Mohammed Atta had pilot's licenses from every country he's been to. Two others were former Saudi air force pilots.

The former came from his girlfriend who you're ALSO quoting Atta's unreligious behavior, and the latter comes from the reports that they trained at a US base when they were still in Saudi service, which you're ALSO using to drop innuendo of secret gov't intervention. Therefore, the fact that there were experienced pilots on the hijacker team must be considered valid.

FYI who the flip are the "cavemen"? Bin Laden comes from a super-wealthy family and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has a degree in engineering.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
The revelations are important evidence for a reportedly ongoing secret 9/11 probe because widely available Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) photographs taken during the attacks clearly show that the few aircraft parts found at the Pentagon belonged to a small jet very similar to a modified A-3 Sky Warrior--not the American Airlines Boeing 757.

Negative. The A3 Sky Warrior was powered by Pratt & Whitney engines. The parts found at the crash site had been identified as being from Rolls Royce engines, the same engines that are fitted to Boeing 757s, and are too large for the A3.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


All those Saudies and not one Iraqi so the US attacks Iraq. Hummm good one davey!

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
This is going to sound crazy... but I believe it to be true.

I think there were over 10,000 people on the planet (possibly much more) that knew the attacks were going to happen.

Another belief that might sound crazy.... I think these attacks were planned years upon years before they happened, even to the point that this was the reason the Towers were built in the first place.

And that is what we are dealing with In my opinion... We have a large secret society that you can compare to Jonestown operating within the system of this world... Many of these people honestly believe that the work they are carrying out is "righteous".

This is the first time that I see somebody writing, or hear say, that it could be the reason why the twin towers were built in the first place. This is a very interesting observation. Not only because of the "dollarnote wrapping trick" but also because........sorry, I can not put my finger on it.

Another crazy thought is probably that the disappearance of billions of dollars maybe is connected with making sure that everybody guilty keeps his and her mouth tight shut.




[edit on 22-12-2009 by zatara]

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
The revelations are important evidence for a reportedly ongoing secret 9/11 probe because widely available Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) photographs taken during the attacks clearly show that the few aircraft parts found at the Pentagon belonged to a small jet very similar to a modified A-3 Sky Warrior--not the American Airlines Boeing 757.

Negative. The A3 Sky Warrior was powered by Pratt & Whitney engines. The parts found at the crash site had been identified as being from Rolls Royce engines, the same engines that are fitted to Boeing 757s, and are too large for the A3.

Anything is possible with today's technology and un- accountability.
Including the salting of aircraft parts at crash sites.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
The revelations are important evidence for a reportedly ongoing secret 9/11 probe because widely available Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) photographs taken during the attacks clearly show that the few aircraft parts found at the Pentagon belonged to a small jet very similar to a modified A-3 Sky Warrior--not the American Airlines Boeing 757.

Negative. The A3 Sky Warrior was powered by Pratt & Whitney engines. The parts found at the crash site had been identified as being from Rolls Royce engines, the same engines that are fitted to Boeing 757s, and are too large for the A3.

Negative. The few parts, very few parts found at the Pentagon were way too small for 757 engines, and they also had the wrong hole configuration. Suggest you stop believing the official story and look at many places on the net that clearly show the pictures of the wreckage, and detailed comparisons between the parts found and the ones used in 757s.

Additions:

The people who made the nuclear device in the basement

The people who planted the nuclear device in the basement

The people who activated the nuclear device in the basement



Obviously there may be some crossover, but not much. Nuclear physicists are unlikely to have the training to plant such a device nefariously. Or the training to take out anyone who happened to notice what was going on.

Originally posted by downisreallyup
Negative. The few parts, very few parts found at the Pentagon were way too small for 757 engines, and they also had the wrong hole configuration. Suggest you stop believing the official story and look at many places on the net that clearly show the pictures of the wreckage, and detailed comparisons between the parts found and the ones used in 757s.

You really should have taken your own advice in this case. The parts that were found at the Pentagon site have been identified as having come from a Rolls Royce RB211 engine, the very type of engine that the Boeing 757 used, as well as what the part had actually been used for on the engine. Here is a writeup from an Aerospace engineer ring-

Rolls Royce engine parts at the Pentagon attack site

You'll forgive me if I defer to the opinions of people with actual relevant technical backgrounds and training, rather than conspiracy web sites hosted by college kids making internet videos out of their dorm room.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

Anything is possible with today's technology and un- accountability.
Including the salting of aircraft parts at crash sites.

I agree, anything IS possible with today's un-accountability....up to and including throwing around unsubstanciated and impossible to prove statements simply to create innuendo of impropriety,

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

All those Saudies and not one Iraqi so the US attacks Iraq. Hummm good one davey!

...which throws the claim this is all some sort of false flag operation into the garbage right there. If it were, they'd have framed Saddam Hussein and Iraq for the attack, rather than waste their time with Al Qaida or Afghanistan.

Thanks for backing up my point for me.

Originally posted by downisreallyup
look at many places on the net that clearly show the pictures of the wreckage, and detailed comparisons between the parts found and the ones used in 757s.

care to point out these places on the net?

Originally posted by JJay55
Can't possibly be that the US government was blindsided by a more intelligent enemy and they pulled off 911, huh?

I guess that could have been the case had our government not told us exactly who the enemy was. It was a bunch of heroin farmers hiding in caves. I wonder what prestigous educational centers they were trained in that made them so much smarter than all of our intelligence agencies. Help me out, were they smarter?

Couldn't be that there are people out there that want to kill non-muslims because of their laws, huh?

Of course that is possible. There are Christians that want to kill people because of the color they paint their house. There are crazy people all over the place but again, this was not the case. Who told you we were attacked by Muslims because of our laws? If this precious OS is even true, it still never claimed that Muslims attacked us because they do not like our laws. Stop listening to Michael Weiner.

Couldn't possibly be that someone has the technology to pull off a simple operation of flying planes into buildings, because apparently that's so freeking difficult to do and no one could have possibly thought that up.
Sheesh.

Technology? What on earth are you talking about? Are you saying they hijacked the planes with computers or robots that flew for them? What did you hear about needing any special technology to fly the planes into buildings?

Americans are dumb, that's what happened on 911.

Well, some of them but usually people like you do not get high ranking jobs in intelligence or defense.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Negative. The A3 Sky Warrior was powered by Pratt & Whitney engines. The parts found at the crash site had been identified as being from Rolls Royce engines, the same engines that are fitted to Boeing 757s, and are too large for the A3.

Is it just me or are you responding to an article about how a plane was modified by claiming that it could not have been that plane because they found a rolls-royce engine? No 757 parts. No AA77 identified parts. Aaaaand the story was about the plane being modified. Could part of that modification have possible been different engines?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
...which throws the claim this is all some sort of false flag operation into the garbage right there. If it were, they'd have framed Saddam Hussein and Iraq for the attack, rather than waste their time with Al Qaida or Afghanistan.

They did. They let out just enough false info to get the support of the country behind the invasion of Iraq because he supposedly had WMDs AND LENT SUPPORT TO THE PEOPLE THAT ATTACKED US ON 9/11.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


The "small" jet engine was likely a APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) - a small
turbine housed in the tail. It is used by aircraft on the ground to provide
electrical power (power is generated in flight by alternators run off the
engines) when main engines are off.

APUs fitted to ETOPS (Extended-range Twin-engine Operations) aircraft are a critical safety device, as they supply backup electricity and compressed air in place of the dead engine or failed main engine generator. While some APUs may not be startable while the aircraft is in flight, ETOPS-compliant APUs must be flight-startable at the altitudes up to the aircraft service ceiling. Recent applications have specified starting up to 43,000 ft. (≈ 13 000 m) from a complete cold-soak condition. If the APU or its electrical generator is not available, the airplane cannot be released for ETOPS flight and is forced to take a longer non-ETOPS route.

I'll give a shot at this

The Bush administration at the White House - the top brass at least.

Bush- I don't think Bush had to necessarily know about it. All he cared about was Iraq and Saddam. If we can take the infamous "my pet goat" video as any indicator, Bush was told of the attacks at that moment. Compare this to Cheney, who was already in the white house bunker. Perhaps Bush knew, and so shrugged it off and continued reading, or perhaps he was really outside of the loop, and that dumb look on his face showed the true leadership of America's president at the time.

Cheney- Cheney was definitely in on it, being in the white house bunker almost immediately and making up conflicting stories of how quickly he got down there. Along with him, if I remember correctly, was Bush Sr, who also probably knew about it. The real question to ask is, would Bush Sr know about it and not tell Bush W?

Rumsfeldt- he announced prior to 9/11 that a trillion dollars was stolen from the white house. He later made a slip up and said that flight 93 was shot down. If he knew anything, he was most likely told to shut up.

Wolfowitz- he was president of the World Bank, and so he had to of known something going on.

*warning, anti-semitic remark coming up* Wolfowitz is also jewish and so that goes with the territory, not sure if Rumsfeldt is or not.

Rice- I'm pretty sure she was the useful idiot that made one brainless remark after the other. In the same way that Obama now is the front man for the NWO, I wouldn't be surprised if they used African American Rice as a talking head to take the heat, all the while not really knowing what was really going on.

Powell- he made the fear mongering threats to the UN about Iraq, and eventually resigned. I'm sure he was told to keep his mouth shut, but not sure just how much he knew.

Looking over the Bush administration, it is clear that Cheney knew more than Bush, and possibly some of his advisers knew more than him as well. I'm sure Rove was smart enough to figure out what was really going on, and was probably part of the cover up. When I think about some of the ridiculous 9/11 myths like "airplane fuel burned the towers" I can't help but think of Rove. In addition, the writer of the popular mechanics article's last name was "chertoff" perhaps a relative of Michael Chertoff of the Homeland Security created shortly after 9/11.



The people who flew the planes

Well, this depends on if there actually were people who flew the planes. I personally think that the pentagon was unmanned, and there is video footage of showing the second plane with a type of homming lazer pointed at the tower. The first plane also seems to explode rather unrealistically, and reports that flight 93 was grounded before crashing into shaksville. Loose Change also talks about the pilot with AA that had ties to the military and whose plane was hijacked on 9/11


Those who faked the phone calls from the planes and the people who trained them and recorded and disemminated the information

This seems like a pentagon type of job. Perhaps this was the case of the "left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing." and the people making the fake calls obviously did not have to know exactly what was going on.

At this point, it is safe to say that not everyone had to be in on the conspiracy, but at least told to keep quiet. So the real question is, how long can people keep 9/11 a secret???


Heads of the major news media, possibly extending down through the organisation, not sure to what level

So long as the head knows, the hands could be blind. Indeed, I can't think of anyone more of a useless idiot than Tucker Carlson

NORAD

so long as NORAD was being controlled by Cheney, they were too busy with military games to really know what was going on.

FBI agents

Many FBI agents made comments about how Israel is not an issue they are allowed to discuss. In addition, many FBI agents actually came forward, including Robert Baer (CIA) and Sibel Edmonds (FBI). It seems like if anyone is holding secrets, it would most likely be FBI or CIA.

NTSB

I'm not sure who was in charge of investigating the plane crashes, but if it was anything like NIST investigating the world trade towers, it was most likely bunk science and the organization believed it with no question. Again, these are the useful idiots who do not know anything, but will willingly defend their government. They probably do not even need to be silenced.

Numbers of people in the USAF

They were running a military game at the time. Even if they did know something, they would have their careers ruined if they came forward. More proof of "coverup" over "conspiracy." So when debunkers say that it is impossible to have this many people in on the conspiracy, it is a straw man, because all you really need to do is cover it up.

I'm running out of words, will continue on next thread.

Significant Wall Street players who speculated with, handled and placed put options

The demolition teams that wired the towers

The scientists who designed the super thermite that was used ("That could only be our special thermite Bob! And they told us they were only going to use it for good!")

Maintenance workers at the WTC told to look the other way while bldgs were rigged

Significant numbers of people in the CIA

Individuals within the Port Authority

At least some members of the police and fire depts of NY (suddenly gone very quiet on the explosions and truck bombs)

Almost all investigators at NIST

Investigators who pieced together eyewitness reports at the Pentagon (would have to ignore so much relevant testimony, leave out stuff about flyover etc)

Spooks at the Pentagon organising and intimidating eyewitnesses

Pentagon security

The teams who faked the aeroplane path to the Pentagon, hacked the lightpoles, #ed up England's taxi, and placed the fake debris on the lawn

The bomb planters who rigged the Pentagon OR the people who organised whatever it was that hit it, the guys who launched the missile, say, or dispatched the drone

Significant Wall Street players who speculated with, handled and placed put options

the FBI of course are concealing who these people are, so yes, they were most likely part of the conspiracy in some way.

The demolition teams that wired the towers

The scientists who designed the super thermite that was used ("That could only be our special thermite Bob! And they told us they were only going to use it for good!")

Maintenance workers at the WTC told to look the other way while bldgs were rigged

Significant numbers of people in the CIA

Individuals within the Port Authority

At least some members of the police and fire depts of NY (suddenly gone very quiet on the explosions and truck bombs)

Almost all investigators at NIST

Investigators who pieced together eyewitness reports at the Pentagon (would have to ignore so much relevant testimony, leave out stuff about flyover etc)

This is like asking, how does the NIST leave out evidence of planned explosion? There were people at the top of these organizations who did have to do cover ups, and the cover up artists are indeed part of the conspiracy, but from that point, every one else believes what their bosses tell them. The 9/11 commission report interviewed people like William Rodriguez and Norman Mineta, but later dismissed these people's testimony. Although I am not sure who dismissed it, I can tell you how they did it. All they had to do was say that these people's testimony was in some way at fault, they are not legitimate or reliable, and so they get canned. At that point, the loyal subjects would not question a decision coming from higher up. After all, so many believed Bush when he said "let us not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories." As soon as the cover up was in place, any fact to the contrary became a "conspiracy theory." Sad but true.

Spooks at the Pentagon organising and intimidating eyewitnesses

Or, I would say the FBI for confiscating video footage. What kind of unAmerican bstrd would actually do this? My guess is, they weren't American! Perhaps a dual citizen

Pentagon security

Loose Change interviewed the one pentagon worker who was told over and over again that a plane hit the building. There must have been a massive psy-op going on at the time. Whether there was only a small team or multiple people spreading rumors, either way they were efficient.

The teams who faked the aeroplane path to the Pentagon, hacked the lightpoles, #ed up England's taxi, and placed the fake debris on the lawn

Is this a joke? Because there was not much debris on the lawn.

The bomb planters who rigged the Pentagon OR the people who organised whatever it was that hit it, the guys who launched the missile, say, or dispatched the drone

All I'll say is Cheney

Mossad

And of course the Mossad. I'm pretty sure the five dancing Israelis were in on it, although they went on an Israeli talk show and confessed their innocence.

In summation, I think a few people at the top knew what was going on, carried out through some type of organization. Mossad seems likely just because it would be hard for an American to do this to their own people, but since the attack benefits Israel, and an Israeli Mossad agent would not have much sympathy for America, plus the amount of control Israel has in the U.S. government, I would say that they are highly suspect. After that, the conspiracy is finished off with an extensive "cover up." I always tell people that 9/11 was a "cover up" and not "inside job" because I know with almost absolute certainty that it was a cover up. All you really need to say is "70 videos confiscated by the FBI." That by definition is a coverup. I think people are desensitized to coverups because we all know we won't find out about area 51.

If they wanted to put this in place since the 90's, they had a decade to piece it together. These people don't cut corners (unless it's Haliburton taking care of U.S. soldiers). Plus, if Bush Sr. knew about it in the 90's, and luck for him his son was in place at the time, he could have had some influence. I wouldn't put it past the Bush family, after all they funded Hitler. An interesting hypothetical is what if Bush Sr. was elected a second time, would they have done it then? Who knows.

Someone does, and so the real question is, when will they confess? Sadly, some people will only believe 9/11 was an inside job if Bush himself confesses on national t.v, but at that point they might just say he's delusional and we only believe what Obama says.



[edit on 22-12-2009 by ancient_wisdom]

Originally posted by Lillydale
Is it just me or are you responding to an article about how a plane was modified by claiming that it could not have been that plane because they found a rolls-royce engine? No 757 parts. No AA77 identified parts. Aaaaand the story was about the plane being modified. Could part of that modification have possible been different engines?

So what are YOU saying, that the conspirators are going to install large Rolls Royce engines onto a smaller plane becuase when they crash it into the Pentagon, it'll leave Rolls Royce engine parts and trick you personally into thinking it was a 757...? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that this is not what you're saying.

Tell me, what exactly would you accept as evidence that a 757 had crashed there, anyway?