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ATS is dying, a cancer grows within.

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posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:13 AM
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Well, yes...you have some points.

Here is how I tend to look at it. The very fact that you can post your opinion on here and receive the popularity that you have with this very post makes a clear statement about your ability to speak in this country and the voice that you unleashed that others heard. People heard you...you're getting their attention. You got mine.

Yes, it sucks when someone intentionally goes out of their way to sabotage a thread, but, it also proposes as sense of balance and it exercises their (the debunkers) free will to answer your call and defend their position. It's actually an amazing dance of sorts if you consider what is truly transpiring. Do you realize the POWER in this??? I've watched very good friends of mine get ripped apart on these forums knowing that the information that they proposed was valid, credible and reputable. But, in the end, no one will ever believe everything. There's always going to be some form of saturation that tips the balance that favors one over the other. The way that I look at things is this...If some of these really fantastic stories are true, then one day it will be very easy to look over your shoulder to see a debunker or a non-believer swallowing his own words. You see, the governments of the world can't hide everything forever.

Right now there are tiny little holes cracking the foundation of the overall institution that holds this all together and this foundation keeps the flood waters from blasting through. These cracks are becoming holes that push a bit more of the water(truth) through the gates. These holes are beginning to leak and soon they'll begin to spray. As the foundation becomes weaker and weaker, more people (debunkers) are employed by the government to run around to plug the holes; but, the water just keeps coming, pushing, and adapting to every measure that they take. Right now more than ever, people have a mistrust of the government that is becoming more and more apparent. Anger is brewing, which, is an unfortunate side effect of being disillusioned over a great period. This anger is creating a movement pushing against the foundation...It will be a massive flood that will be hard to contain, and it will spill over into everything and onto everyone.

The fact that we have so many debunkers on these forums is a good sign. It shows government desperation. Look at the chessboard carefully! Now, I don't claim that every single skeptic or debunker that is on this site is a government agent, however, many people are easily influenced by the seemingly logical and intelligent explanations that the more revered ATS debunkers seem to wield. Remember the third to the last word there...seem. Because of this appearance of intelligence and their diligent nature to work against certain threads, the weaker and more suggestible ATS members/candidates who are easily impressed will gravitate toward someone that they feel is their superior to join "the winning team." Its all mathematical. Yes, the numbers of debunkers are growing. Now, there is one ATS member here who is excellent at this very method, and to be honest, I DO have respect for him. He works this forum as if it were a career. I don't know if he is an agent and, I really don't care. But, my observation of the phenomenon that surrounds him would be laughable if it weren't so downright scary. Its the equivalent of a cult phenomenon like I have only witnessed during my studies of Jim Jones, Charles Manson, and the "Heavens Gate" cult.

Whether this particular member is aware of this or not (I'm sure he has an idea), his "cronies" intentionally run around to other threads, utilize his name for the purpose of "prestige and affiliation," begin the process of insults, and ultimately, sound the alarms of impending doom (the arrival of said ATS'er). They chastise others until they can achieve reaction, and then, due to the emotive response of the opposition, they slowly degrade the thread into arguments. Once that is achieved, the above-mentioned ATS'er will come in and mop up the mess. My advice is...don't make a mess that needs mopping. I see it in a different light though, for me...that's democracy in action!!!

That's why I appreciate it all. Just sit back, keep posting threads and watch the fallout. As long as people are discussing content, we have achieved communication.


[edit on 14-12-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]




posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Ok, so instead of using proof to debunk, we should just believe everything that we read here?


No one said you should believe everything you read here. I do feel most who do read here believe everything the MSM tells us. What is more insane?


So what if there are debunkers, its needed here, half the stuff posted here ends up being garbage which is easily disproven with logical thinking and backing evidence. That where the applause is awarded.


to you it might be garbage for some here its just a topic of discussion, heaven forbid we talk about topics were interested in.


If there were no people actually arguing there point, then this site would be literally worthless and boring. Anyway what is wrong with asking for proof? Would you rather just ignore that kind of stuff and belive what is written even if it doesnt have anything that indicates it is factual?


Many things discussed here can't be proven. So if a topic can't be proven we should not discuss it here? on a conspiracy/alternative forum?


What Im trying to say here is, without two sides of a story, and without proof then we are certainly not denying ignorance. If you choose to ignore the opposite side of the arguments believers, then how the hell is that not being ignorant?


Thats not how it is, many don't post here anymore because of the flame and attacks, there are not many discussions most are bash fests. Why does it bother so many people? That weird or even crazy topics be discussed? Why can't the debunkers here give us a break??? Why do you all wish to end the conversations?? Can't we speak and share our opinions and views???


If you dont like a 50/50 argument then I hear godlikeproductions is the best place to be, those people dont use or even need evidence in their posts.

Deny ignornace, and deny idiocracy


Wow nice post to your fellow ats'er so if they don't agree with you then they should goto another site?? If they don't agree with the all knowing the all debunking oz weatherman, they are not welcome here????

Personally I have been around a long time, and the pursuit of the almighty dollar was a mistake. ATS has never been so politically correct, and IMHO just another talking head in our MSM. I will still post crazy or even stupid topics, unless I get banned, and even if that happened I would still read hoping for that lil nugget of information or discusion that interests me.

LOL I can't remember the last applause I got, seriously I thought they stopped doing that.

ATS is home to conservative, politically correct and religious peoples....there isn't anything wrong with this until you no longer have anyone to argue with. These people are the mods, they are the ones who get the points, stars and flags.....

What I dislike about ATS is that there are a huge amount of you that do not wish us to talk about things. If you don't agree or believe a topic posts your opinion and move on, but that isn't what happens here.

We may as well forbid topics like 9/11 or JFK or any other topics that can't be proven either way.

At one time ATS was like a diamond field of information, everywhere you looked there was a precious gem, now its more like looking for a needle in a haystack, and the haystack is on fire.

But alas im here still looking for those needles



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
These people are the mods, they are the ones who get the points, stars and flags.....


Are they?

I am not a moderator, but I have among the highest points, stars and flags. Do not make unjustified attack on the moderators.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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My own personal opinion is that we ARE all too sensitive to what is being said. I guess that this is just human nature and form of protection. I know that on MANY occasions I have become 'upset' when talking to people on many a subject, especially if they refuse to see my point of view.

After sitting back with my extremely level headed partner who I like to call the resident home debunker, I have come to realise that unless people are willing to listen (really listen) then there is no point in trying to convert them.

Having people who debunk is NEEDED as far as I am concerned. Yes, we do need people who make us think about things in a much more detailed way. Bringing proof to the table is something that can only help us as 'theorists'.

On the other hand though, we also need people to understand that getting proof is not always that easy. When we were told that the earth was not flat, no one set out with proof - it was a thought.

These things start with thoughts and progress from there.

The main thing that I feel we should ALL agree on is that everything is kept civil. When we start slinging mud at each other, not only does it look bad to people finding the site, it makes people much less inclined to get involved.

Just my thoughts!



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by LDragonFire
These people are the mods, they are the ones who get the points, stars and flags.....


Are they?

I am not a moderator, but I have among the highest points, stars and flags. Do not make unjustified attack on the moderators.


Im not making unjustified attacks on anybody.

What I am doing is discussing a topic, Are You?

And you were once a mod, yes?

Are we allowed to be conspiracy theorist here anymore? or not???? Are we allowed to discuss conspiracy/alternative topics or not?



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Hack28
I have a problem with those people, and aside from that im getting a little bored of hearing about how bad the big ol internet has been to you. Now im sure you have had some unfortunate run-ins with the resident morons, but i have seen so many of these threads lately one cant help but think the whinners are forging a new subset of ATS members.



Very constructive and enlightened way to approach a thread like this. I understand your frustration, but, attacks like this only inflame the situation and cause more threads like this to appear. You've done just as much with this statement to polarize this forum from "skeptics and believers" into a subset of "whiners" as you claim that the "whiners" have.

Just and observation.


[edit on 14-12-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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Trend Negative

Speaking as someone who used to start threads on a similar subject in BB&Q (even back when it was still known as BQ&B), I've been watching (and trying to help in my own small way), and although the board has grown a lot since then, not all that much has really changed on this front.

Most people are still just as intolerant of different opinions as they've always been. Consider the impetus behind this thread, for example.


In general, people tend to believe what they want to believe, tend to feel threatened by anyone and anything that challenges those beliefs, and tend to be hostile toward them as a result.

Short of removing people from the process altogether, there's no way I know of to eliminate it.

The only "cure" I know of requires patience, leading by example and a culture that encourages respect for differing points of view (most easily quantified in terms of courtesy).

Even then, it's still a rough ride, but it's still better than the alternatives.

At least, I think so. YMMV.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:38 AM
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Why hate de-bunkers? If outlandish claims were backed by evidence, then being "de-bunked" would not be a problem. I usally lurk choosing not to post, however, I can not keep quiet on this. Although I do not agree with attacking the poster instead of the topic, the only cancer I see is wild claims made without a shread of evidence. I have lost count of the number of quotes claiming to be secret society members or black op goverment employees whom cliam his of her knowlege is unlimited. Who would actullay buy these things on blind gaith? From now on intead of blaming so called "de-bunkers" for the ills of the earth, try offering evidence.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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Agree with the OP, I follow the rule that I no longer get involved with topics that don’t interest me and do not pass comment on topics that get my back up. As such I have hardly posted in the last few weeks as all there seems to be is negativity and garbage being posted.
I will persevere though as I love the site and for all the negativity and garbage I can normally find one golden thread that is well written and informative. At the end of the day isn’t the whole internet like this, the douche bags make up the majority, when encountering theses people the kind people at ATS have invented the ignore button. If we don’t feed the trolls they will go back under their bridge to lick their wounds. On the other hand we do need debunkers as without them we would not have debate. I just want quantified debate not just criticism for criticisms sake.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:44 AM
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Well, I think that those people who use the old line of "you don't agree therefore you must be a government plant" is used because they are disheartened that their poorly thought out and poorly delivered idea was debunked by an all too average type of person who can see it for what it is or doesn't agree and simply poiunts out why.

In all seriousness, these sites do not pose any threat whatsoever to anyone. there are no organized powers that be after all. that's a wonderful hoax on it's own! lol as if some cabal has been orchestrating things. yeesh, civilization has done nothing but rise and fall since the first recordings of it. There is NO one cabal running things and to looks at the self evident facts of it all is clearly indicative of that.

Hence I always get a giggle when people say "TPTB". What Powers that be? Who are these cabalistic demi-urges controlling our lives and thoughts with their evil chem trails and sonic canons! who I ask? lol

yep, there are definitely groups who seek power and there are powerful people. But are they all orchestrating some big event?

Good luck with that. If 2 world wars, continued conflict and an inability to enact free trade is any indicator, I say we're a long way away from any focused global powers that be. just a bunch of self interested people with massively discordant agendas so far.

I'd say out of anyone, it's the pentagon that is running the show, but only where it matters to the pentagon. Politicians come and go, rich people come and go.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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there are currently 4 threads dealing with this exact thing.
IMO there surely is a cancer growing within ATS, its called creating threads complaining about having to deal with other people, this is kindergarten stuff people, learn how to deal with difficult people or your life is going to be very hard.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by WWJFKD
 


Have the Mod's do what???? Your kidding yes. I would also like to add that my good friend was BANNED from here for just a mention of past drug use. He was only making a point about being honest, but not only did Bill ban him, he continued through the thread bad talking him to other Mod's and members.
The funniest part of the story is that it was my friend who motivated me to join ATS.....then afterwards, I learned he was banned by the UnderLord himself (sorry, that is what my friend calls him now). What a pity, he is the most generous and honest person I know....actually, you all lost a good addition to your family.
But hey keep those idiots who are rude and attack peoples beliefs and intelligence with dishonest rantings....makes so much sense



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Hack28
 


Every member needs his own thread on the exact same subject. For flags and stars..

I might just consider starting a thread on the same subject myself.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by DGFenrir
 


You are wrong i have a free and open mind i try to find explanations and listen to evidence and gather as much information as i can from every source all i would wish is for everyone to do the same and not simply announce that KNOW for fact what something is or has occurred ? Everyone is entitled to an opinion and should not be attacked for it ? Do you not agree ?



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by hellfrozeover
 


It states in the T&C you cannot mention personal drug use.
Common sense, we have members under the age of 18 and even 16. We have a legal duty to protect them.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by ProRipp
 


I agree. But it's almost impossible to have a discussion when people ask the same old stupid questions that have already been answered several times. Some also make up ignorant claims like: The russians fired the missile over Norway. Then you tell the person that they didn't and then he says it again and then other members correct him again and then he asks it AGAIN. It's just trolling like this, ignorance and laziness that pisses some people off.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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ATS gives you an ignore button

ATS gives you an alert button

and ATS gives you hundreds of threads to choose from. What more is needed?

The power is within you to ignore comments that are rude or unproductive to a thread. From my experience the MODs pretty much leave you alone as long as your post is courteous and pertains to the thread.

I don't see ATS as dying, I see it is growing and attracting people from all walks of life. And just like in the real world, we have to learn to deal with and respect each other.


.02 cents



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by jam321
 


Yep, but that's no help to those who wish to blame their internal problems onto an external source ...

It's the NWO, no it's the ATS ... gotta be cause I know I'm not the problem.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by infinite
 


Please.....your serious aren't you. I think you have been programmed to say that. You remember being 16....I do. I thought when I read through the T&C it said something totally different? I'll have to go back and check on that.
It's not about the use, being right or wrong....it is about the power trip these guys sometimes are on. Once again, someone does not read the entire post, just picks out one line and makes a comment.
That is the point that I believe is in part being made in this thread. Closing ones mind to the Dragnet mind set of "just the facts, only the facts", and not seeing or reading the entire theme.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 11:09 AM
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Ok more skeptics, more deniers, and lots of love to light and bad darkness folk... Go away. Thats about it..? Right? Im not a skeptic, despite the yoda skywalker thing people wish they had. But these type of threads just seem to pop up at least once per day on the major 4 flagged ones ALL THE TIME.

What the hell we know in a site like this there will be skeptics, we know that there will be people who find other peoples threads weird and nonsense and just plain unbelievable...

Sorry but just all these threads about doom, aliens and un-sprinkled donuts may help occasionally... However the increasing number of fact-be-true, "Too many disinfo agents, this sites dying' threads are just a pain in my anal end, which may also be from all that probing.

Seriously yes this site isn't like it was a year or two years ago... So wasnt alot of things... I swear from now on on a weekly basis I should just start threads like this and like usual grab 50+ stars for almost copy and pasting the other hundreds of "ATS DOOMED" threads going on.

More likely its the lack of proof, which has always been a problem for any conspiracy site. Despite how hard people try, or wish the videos are grainy, the crop circles are corny and the self proclaimed aliens on this site all spell bad and have no grammar.

Yes Deny Ignorance, and Deny stupidity. We cannot help ourselves but to even as a die-hard believer, question things we seek answers for. Most of us on here are in a way "awakened" and do not take facts blindly, but want proof or answers to our questions.

[edit on 14-12-2009 by Aoxoa]



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