ATS is dying, a cancer grows within.

reply to post by DGFenrir

I actually think me and you are on the same wavelength ! I couldn't agrre more !

I agree.

The problem is:

- im fine with ATS deny ignorance, line, but ATS is losing is common sense.

DENY IGNORANCE works when we use it as a filter to stop unreal claims, (from john titor to the alien of the month)

DENY IGNORANCE KILLS KNOWLEDGE AND DISCUSSION , when is used to find any reason to debunk any discussion (some ones very plausible ), and enter on the red carpet of the debunkers elite

- we are being witnesses of a large infiltration here... just using common sense we can see it, (like people repeating their phrases and agenda en every post and only posting in certain topics (related))


Its time to STOP using the DENY IGNORANCE as an excuse to KILL the discussion on this site.

we need common sense and RESPECT to others opinions too.

i think great part of ATS users are here because they could never discuss some topics on a strictly science forum.


then... ¿Why we are transforming this great site into a strictly science one?

Galileo would be debunked to in his time in a forum like ATS is becoming now.

reply to post by BLV12



The problem is not with challenging statements, views, ideas and events ... the problem lies in the way people do the above.

When it's done with malice and ridicule, done as a way of belittling, done in a way that will ultimately discourage people from discussing things they've seen, ideas they've had, theories they might want to explore... when it's done like this ATS dies a little bit.

Hell, if I ever experienced a UFO sighting, or some other such 'out there' event, one of the the LAST places I would share the experience with would be ATS. I don't consider myself to be any different to the next guy, and if I feel like that I'm sure many others do as well.

I'm quite happy discussing ANYTHING with anyone, but I'm not that much of an idiot that I would deliberately jump into a pit of ravenous wolves just for the hell of it... and this is what ATS is slowly becoming. Where it should be a place in which people discuss, share, analyse, agree or refute, agree to disagree, etc, ATS has become a place where you have to be a brave soul (or a masochistic moron) to open yourself up like that.

It's not what you do, it's the way you do it that counts... this goes for scepticism as much as anything else.

Being sceptical does not give you the right to verbally assault or ridicule anyone you disagree with, thinks differently or who won't come round to your point of view...

Scepticism = GREAT.... however

What passes for scepticism in many threads is more akin to the behaviour of the playground bully (wearing the guise of scepticism to legitimise it). Then when the culprit is pulled up on this obnoxious behaviour out come the cries of 'But we need scepticism, ATS requires it... ridiculous threads/ideas/people like the OP deserve this... it will discourage future idiots'

Distilled down to it's essence this is called censorship.... and I think too many people who call themselves sceptics are actually being censoring bullies.

Scepticism + Respect + Tolerance + Open mind = Deny Ignorance

When something (like a website) is less popular, it is underground and has a better chance of having free and open alternative discussion. When it starts becoming more popular and going mainstream, this is when the propaganda, half-truths and rubbish start to infiltrate and take it over. ATS has obviously grown from the former to the latter.

After all, money talks and BS walks - especially if the BS is the cold hard truth which needs to be kept hidden from 99% of the population. "Deny Ignorance" is a nice catchy motto and all, but it really has nothing to do with what this site is about, since it promotes just as much ignorance as it denies.

Great post and it needed to be said! You have to realise that the reason there is so many 'professional' debunkers on ATS now is because it has attracted a large membership, who are getting very close to the truth with their theories, opinions and posts, that it has attracted the attention of 'The Powers That Be'! Great I say, smother them with love and they will get confused

I realsed how serious this site was being taken when you see a NASA employee and NBC correspondent (known professional debunker) posting on this site! Don't you think they would laugh at a site like this and not bother wasting their time, if the world was just as they say?

This is their last panic stand because the truth is coming out and they won't be able to stop it! Unlike the 20th Century people are waking up and thinking for themselves and not just letting the governments and religious organisations form opinions on their behalf!

In the middle ages in Europe, you either accepted everything the church told you to believe or found yourself being tortured to death, but even in the 21st Century two Vatican officials have come forward with their acceptance of Extraterrestrial life!

The truth is coming out and is gathering pace as more whistleblowers bring the truth to the masses and when the intelligent debunking doesn't work, then they turn to insults! No need to fight back really, just ignore them and let them talk to each other!

It's not just Extraterrestrila situation they are worried about, it's the fact of the masses finding out that they have aligned themselves with the negative entities rather than following a path of goodness!

Soon the truth will come out and the masses will know not just about how they have been lied to about the ET presence, they will be angry to know they have been sold out. Argartha, Lemurian Telos, Atlantians and the rest of the hollow earth races who have made these mistakes in the past, have now chosen a peaceful existence for the past 12,000 years and are working with the Galactic Federation to bring about the necessary changes to this wonderful earth and restore it back to it's natural and beautiful state, where the water is clean, diseases will be healed and not created in government labs and food will be tasty and nutricious!

The 'debunkers' maybe a cancer but I know there is a cure

Ignore them, don't argue because whatever you try they will always draw you into a long winded negative argument with the intention of making you give up and stop posting. Know the truth, their mission is to drive as many truth seekers away from this site and others like it, please don't let that happen!

Love and Truth will win in the end as they cannot beat those who live in the light and not the dark.

Anyway, thats my tupence worth of input from the cartoon janitor/superhero here to clean up Love and light to you all

[edit on 14-12-2009 by Hongkongphooey]

[edit on 14-12-2009 by Hongkongphooey]

reply to post by Spooky Fox Mulder


Or, it could be due to the fact the arcane "ATS is government controlled" has been mentioned every year, at least five - six times. It gets boring after a while...

Kaillassa said :-
Debunkers will attack anyone who thinks for themselves



Ive been attacked and I've never even had a theory ! Just for stating an opinion ! No doubt someone will want proof of that though !

[edit on 14-12-2009 by ProRipp]

reply to post by Spooky Fox Mulder


Oh come on.. I have the opposite opinion. The ones in power here seem to love when ignorant people post nonsense, troll or keep the fantasies alive in any other way. Why do you think ATS-Big threads happen? They happen when lazy people post same old nonsense because they don't like the logical explanations which don't support the Flying-Spaghettimonster theories.

I'd actually like to see more input from them. Punish the trolls who deliberately try to piss others off and those who post nonsense and made up facts.

I'm not attacking you or anything. Sorry if my post sounds rude.
Peace.

Originally posted by DGFenrir
reply to post by ProRipp

 

You're confused. Skeptics aren't there to support theories without proof or at least a logical explanation.
Judging from your post you want us all to believe the Flying-Spaghettimonster just because you want us to.. but I hope I'm wrong.

1 - proof
2 - logical explanation


you need the most important one:

3 - open mind.



Years ago, scientist claimed that nothing heavier than air could fly.

from long time there wasnt proof neither logical explanation to argue with that claim.

Open mind was the key to keep investigating and get the truth , who finally allow us to fly in those heavy monsters called airplanes



Debunkers in ATS refuse to have an open mind. They see it as weakness and ignorance.

Thats the problem !


Galileo hadnt

1 - proof or
2 - logical explanation

to the closed mind of the limited knowledge in his time.


We still have the same limited five senses, we still haven't travelled around the universe and we still not use all our brain capacity.

then... ¿we we are so sure of being in the position of give proof of something , or ask proof and definitive logical explanation?


Thats why the only sure sense we have today is our common sense and open mind... everything else is the false ilusion of knowledge, and let all that to the science field.

reply to post by ozzraven



Debunkers in ATS refuse to have an open mind. They see it as weakness and ignorance.

You have stated in a more succinct way
what i originally said thank you !





[edit on 14-12-2009 by ProRipp]

First off, what is a theory?

Second, if you supply all the facts, is it a theory or a conspiracy then, if facts are presented and not able to be debunked with facts, then what do you have? A conspiracy?

Questions must always be asked. What I find so funny is the extremely lame reasons some people come up with for the reason they "believe" it was a "missile" instead of HAARP or some other technologically advanced test project. (Latest Norway event) Unbelieveable. The Blue spiral stream leading to the vortex and then the black disc shape afterwards. I won't even begin to debate that here, I have my own ideas.

So why the bad feelings or feelings of disgust toward the site? Conspiracy to accomplish some other deed? To imbelish or detract from what the original intent of the site has been?

See, I myself do not understand some of the responses to a few of the posts. I can only deduce the most crazy ideology. Wikipedia, what a joke that site is, how can anything from that site be believed when anyone can edit?

I didn't mean for this to be a long post. But the Earth is in a world of hurt, no pun intended. People here, all people here need to watch "The Hidden Empire" and "Kymatica" and wake up, it's that simple. These documentaries may not be totally true, but with some common sense - deductive reasoning one can understand the Who, why and how.

And the NWO is an agenda, not a group of people, the CFR, Tri-lateral Commission and the Bilderberg Group are the ones along with the Illuminati/Freemasons who are trying to impliment the plan of "A" new world order.

NO FEAR, you must live without fear, just understand what "they" want and be prepared. Don't get uptight about a few deranged comments, use your own brain and instinct. It's not all that bad and yes we all must work together, for every positive there must be a balancing negative. No matter how ugly or percieved ridiculous. Always keep an open mind. Sorry if there are a few spelling errors here and there, nobody's perfect.

[edit on 14-12-2009 by daddio]

"Hell, if I ever experienced a UFO sighting, or some other such 'out there' event, one of the the LAST places I would share the experience with would be ATS. I'm quite happy discussing ANYTHING with anyone, but I'm not that much of an idiot that I would deliberately jump into a pit of ravenous wolves just for the hell of it... and this is what ATS is slowly becoming. Distilled down to it's essence this is called censorship.... and I think too many people who call themselves sceptics are actually being censoring bullies."

I think you hit the nail on the head. Why ATS would encourage and promote such juvenile and oppressive behavior on the part of numerous members is suspect, to say the least. By allowing these sophomoric members to roam free and sabotage vital discussions, ATS is clearly showing its hand.

I mean, the staff makes such a big deal about their precious "Terms and Conditions" and then they let these pinhead Neanderthals do as they please, often intimidating and shutting down honest contributors. This behavior by the staff is more than a bit contradictory and revealing.

Temporarily closing this thread to urge everyone to read this one...

The Rise Of The ATS Invertebrate: or, it takes a spine to be a conspiracy theorist.

and this one...

We must end the rising "culture of negativity"

[edit on 14-12-2009 by SkepticOverlord]

reply to post by buds84

Originally posted by buds84

You should know by now this site is run by the government to keep tabs and timers on their plans, so they can some what keep an eye out for leaked information,

Honestly ... you couldn't be further from the truth.

The owners Are who and what they portray them selves as And the staff are as diverse as the membership itself.

Hardly "the" breeding ground for the type antics and/or efforts alluded to in the above stated assertions.

I have seen quite a few topics removed very fast with some alarming information in it.

Details surrounding such "claims" would be greatly appreciated, as the only threads "removed" are those which are either extremely redundant or that which violates the Terms & Conditions agreeed to.

First of all if your point of view isn't all American, you get banned, like I did.

Not true.

I was banned for agreeing with a anti-gay law in Africa.

Not true.

Then banned again for having an unpopular opinion about 4 cops getting shot.

Again ... Not true.

So yeah you can be banned for not breaking ToC.

Again ... more of the same, Not true.

Also it seems the Mods have been teaching "if it ain't White, it aint right" type of crap.

Opinion, Not factual Nor even close to the same.

I had MOD's U2U me warnings while banned telling me I need to post with a more "white mans point of view"

Sorry. Again ... demonstrate the same.(?) ... as the members of Staff are as varied and diverse as that of the membership itself. [different colors, even ]

Over the past 3 years or so I have seen the best minds on ATS leave this place for good because of the bullcrap.

Opinions and overall perceptions vary greatly ... member to member ... Definitely something to consider, or perhaps ponder, here.


... and before it be mentioned, stated or questioned...

Me?
Defending ATS (?)

...hardly.

...but it is rather difficult to sit idly by and allow such ill-conceived utter twaddle to be spewed forth in a "matter of fact" fashion without voicing , demonstrating and/or the revealing the same for what it is.

With regards this particular "claim" and/or "incidence", Hate Speech, no matter how thinly-veiled or onion-skinned the approach or effort may be is Still, Just That, ....

Hence the actions taken.

What would seem increasingly apparent are those who would rather Not "sleep" in the very beds they made them selves. (?)

I'll just go ahead and repost this here too:

I always encourage those that have a problem with ATS to either contribute to the discussion and correcting of any problems real or perceived, or go whine somewhere else. The last thing we need is a site full of whiners discouraging intelligent debate by taking up valuable flagged header space with their crap.

ATS is User Generated. And that also means that you have to at least participate in discussion about where the site should go and back it up. If you can't be bothered to do that, then don't complain when things don't go your way. ATS is not about believing in conspiracies it is about discussing them.

I am a new member, but I like what I read here. The weird stuff along with the debunking. It is all good. This is truly a free speech forum. Many of the posts and replies have made me think, which is more than I can say for many websites out there. It is all part of the market place of ideas.

reply to post by 12m8keall2c


Here we have an ATS Administrator blatantly lying.

Like I said, "First of all if your point of view isn't all American, you get banned, like I did."
And
"I was banned for merely agreeing with a anti-gay law in Africa."

12m8keall2c You lie and say: Not True

But here is the proof.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I was quickly silenced and banned for agreeing with a law in Africa then quoting a verse out of the Bible, never directly insulting any members.
As you can see members used direct insults against me without warning or punishment.

I said: "Then banned again for having an unpopular opinion about 4 cops getting shot."

12m8keall2c You lie and say: Not True.

Here is the proof.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There I didn't directly insult any members, just merely cheering the death of 4 cops, just as members in the same thread merely cheered the death of the "suspect" without knowing if he was guilty or not.

I was banned, other members unpunished.

Now for your disagreement with my statement: "I had MOD's U2U me warnings while banned telling me I need to post with a more "white mans point of view"

You call false information on me.
Would you like me to post the U2U convo between me and a Super Mod about this?
Because it's not looking good for you or you're staff if I post it.

My question is, why would you dig yourself a hole by saying my statements are not true before going into my posts and reading them?

Did you think I wouldn't go and pull out those threads for proof of my claims?

Honestly you are making your staff and site look really bad by telling lies.
So here we have a ATS Admin defending his site by lying, so what else do these people lie about?

[edit on 14-12-2009 by buds84]

Originally posted by ozzraven

Years ago, scientist claimed that nothing heavier than air could fly.

Incorrect, scientists knew birds could fly, they knew that they could make kites that could fly. They just did not have the knowledge/technology to allow man to fly.

Debunkers in ATS refuse to have an open mind. They see it as weakness and ignorance.

Thats the problem !

actually it is more the believers, like the birthers and truthers who refuse to accept anything that destroys their conspiracy theory that refuse to have a open mind. Just like the failed Russian missile launch recently, it was shown to be a missile, but some claim it is a wormhole, or HAARP, or EISCAT or a UFO

Originally posted by ProRipp
reply to post by ozzraven

 

Debunkers in ATS refuse to have an open mind. They see it as weakness and ignorance.

You have stated in a more succinct way
what i originally said thank you !





[edit on 14-12-2009 by ProRipp]

as one long before me said on these pages...having an open mind is great, so long as it's not open enough for everything to spill out.