While many members have mentioned this I feel like I need to put my 0.02 USD in the penny for our thought fund.

Lately there has been an increase in members wanting to be skeptical or who wish to straight debunk everything and attack ATS members for even briging up content that is controversial (which this site covers) and worse yet, the ATS moderators and only APPLAUDING them for their skepticism/debunkerism.

Everyone coming with anything of interest rarely gets recognized by the ATS staff and usually they cry PROOF along with the skeptic/debunker crowd which almost outnumber the open minded people that started this site.

WHY are so many new members coming here and trying to derail the subject matter of this site? why do the old members like me and others slowly being pushed aside by these new members that only wish to sabotage this site.

Moreover, some of these members are now becoming moderators...and in turn...we are being infiltrated by these debunkers.

They are trying to kill this site from the inside!

ABOVE TOP SECRET information is what we discuss here NOT debunking every single claim that might shock some simple minds to the core, desperately trying to explain away what they fear.

ATS is under attack, I don't know if they are professional debunkers, government agents or your everyday nay sayers.

I am tired that my voice is never heard on this site, no one wants to listen or acknowledge what i'm trying to rely, it's like i'm being ignored for what i'm trying to share.

There are things going on RIGHT NOW that are absolutely fantastic and extremely hard to believe, super advanced technology is kept underground, extra-terrestial are actively involved in clandestine operations that only the highest members of the government and military are informed on.

They are extremely efficient at hiding the truth, planting trees so you can't see the whole landscape anymore.

THEY ARE PLANTING THOSE TREES RIGHT HERE! on a site that embodies the first ammendant right! even if you are not in the United States, free speech is something we can ALL embrace! but this free speech is being destroyed by stealth, we are being manipulated in what we believe is true, we are being force-fed what they want us to believe is the truth, not just by TV or other mass-media, but by the internet.

If the government indeed has extremely advanced technology, then it follows that they have artificial inteligence that monitors the web and destroys theories by finding the most efficient explanation for a certain theory.

I am not as smart as most ATS members nor do I post anything that hits the front page, but I have been here a long time and this site is changing for the worst, the content that is generated on this site is being sniped before it goes anywhere.

I could mention some debunker 'heroes' on this site but I shall refrain but we will hear the desperate people crying for an explanation for what they fear.

Ignorance isn't bliss! the truth will set you free!

I call all ignorance denying warriors to fight the debunkers and win this board back.

Light the way to truth, just because the debunkers are smart doesn't mean we can't outsmart them, just because they are skilled at using a search engine to find claims against what is being posted here doesn't mean we can't do the same thing in the contrary.

Viva la resistance.

ive been reading here for years, only recently joined early this year in order to converse with like-minded individuals. I have also noticed that there seems to be more rage in comments, more personal attacks for, lets face it, topics that will not be answered in the near future.

I have no cure for this, other than to ignore the retards and look for friends.

Although I agree with you, matters raised here are open for discussion.

Just do what I do. If I don't like the first few lines of a post, skip to the next one, and only read the posts you are interested in.

It gets hard though when the subject is completely derailed.

[edit on 13/12/09 by NuclearPaul]

Ok, so instead of using proof to debunk, we should just believe everything that we read here?

So what if there are debunkers, its needed here, half the stuff posted here ends up being garbage which is easily disproven with logical thinking and backing evidence. That where the applause is awarded.

If there were no people actually arguing there point, then this site would be literally worthless and boring. Anyway what is wrong with asking for proof? Would you rather just ignore that kind of stuff and belive what is written even if it doesnt have anything that indicates it is factual?

What Im trying to say here is, without two sides of a story, and without proof then we are certainly not denying ignorance. If you choose to ignore the opposite side of the arguments believers, then how the hell is that not being ignorant?

If you dont like a 50/50 argument then I hear godlikeproductions is the best place to be, those people dont use or even need evidence in their posts.

Deny ignornace, and deny idiocracy

Ive been on here since august, i never have a problem with peoples opinions, i do however have a problem with people creating threads claiming to be an alien; or we all know the threads that consist of some outlandish story written in broken speedy language like the poster is in such a rush to get their story to the public that they cant type proper. Yet they have time to stick around for a few hours demanding everyone to "trust" them, their stories real they just have no proof or wont answer questions. I have a problem with those people, and aside from that im getting a little bored of hearing about how bad the big ol internet has been to you. Now im sure you have had some unfortunate run-ins with the resident morons, but i have seen so many of these threads lately one cant help but think the whinners are forging a new subset of ATS members.

Another cancer I see here is the cancer of making crazy claims with no real base of reason. And all with the expectation that you will be taken seriously and no one will dare disagree with you let alone get frustrated/pissed at you for debunking and putting those distractions (that people are putting out there) down

Maybe ATS should go NWO - - hand picking who is allowed to voice opinion and who isn't.

ATS could hand pick who they think intelligently represents each category and can debate eloquently.

I guess us peons could be given right of vote to select the eloquent speaking individuals to represent us.

I'm sure when ATS began with its loyal followers - - they were a tight knit group with like minded thinking.

Oh! - the horrors of growing - - and letting just anyone in.

So far at least, I find that if you have a conviction in an argument you won't be debunked. I love it when a good post debate comes together, and we can agree to disagree.
Perhaps some things should be debunked - just because people are open to conspiracy doesn't mean we should swallow everything.
My problem is when everyone agrees on a thread - it's often a dead-end.
So viva debate and debunkers - bring it on!

I agree with you, and if I may add my 2 cents, I am disgusted at the handling of the alternative drugs forum. Personal use must not be spoken of, that alone is censorship and not what I expected from ATS, but aside from personal use/abuse you may not even discuss how to help family members who are addicts, which I feel that in todays drug fueled society is a way to avoid talking about that which affects a huge percentage of members here! What the hell is so bad about discussing the topic of addiction????? That kind of censorship goes beyond ridiculous. Book burning and banning isn't even close to the level of censorship that this is on ATS. I just didn't expect it. And I don't even know why I am back on here tonight except that I am at work, bored and ATS WAS, emphasis on WAS, my favorite site to visit. But more and more I am realizing that the site is heavily monitored/censored, yet at the same time it is rampant with those allowed to rant and throw threads off track because they disagree or do not believe in the topic. Where are the censors then?

[edit on 13-12-2009 by space cadet]

Conspiracy theorists need debunkers and skeptics. The more conspiracy theorists are kept on their toes, the stronger their arguments have to be, which is a good thing.

There's nothing wrong with being a debunker or a skeptic. The search for truth is a tough one. Many people want to believe what they think is true. If their convictions run deep, it can be really hard to let go and see the other side of the argument. Having another angle to an issue is a very important part of learning.

However, I think you mean to say that the level of rabidness coming from the debunking crowd has amplified the past few months. Yeah, it's unpleasant, but if you're going to get into heavy conspiracies, you better be ready to take some hits.

I'm really not trying to be an ass. However, why is it that so many people get up in arms when some one asks for proof?

Part of what I had drilled in to me all my life was "look for proof." I was always told to never believe in proof just because you heard three or four people say the same thing. Ask them for their sources.

I remember doing a paper on whether or not Crusaders roasted and ate children. Well, at first I thought it was true. Five or six "reference" titles all mentioned it as fact. However when I looked for their sources they all mentioned one woman. (Sorry I cannot remember her name.) Her father was the king of the country where the crusaders had come to rest while awaiting transport to the Middle East. The problem is her father and her country had recently been at war with these exact same people. This means that she may have had other motivations for saying these things.

Well with the primary witness seeming less than credible I looked for secondary sources. You know another person, letters, manuscripts, and all of those things. I could not find them.

These reference books had all taken the word of this one woman as the whole proof. Some books even referenced other books that listed her as the sole reference.

My point? One source made an allegation and someone repeated it. After a few people repeated it became the truth. Not, as you may think, because of exhaustive research. Simply because a chorus had arisen saying that it was.

Here is my main point. Proof is necessary when you are presenting something as fact. It is also necessary that you make sure your proof is actually proof and not repeated rumors. Otherwise all you have is opinion and suppositions.

I agree we should be able to debate and discuss all the controversial topics. However, real debate requires being able to answer hard questions and show proof. Anything less is a waste of time because you are not denying ignorance, you are breeding it.