Norway spiral - Russia accepts blame even though Norway may have been responsible ! !

reply to post by TacticalVeritas


The links are working just fine. Have you cleared your cache and checked your internet connection? Their server is running rather slowly, but the information is still there.

Also, even if the pages are removed, it is evidence of nothing other than the pages being removed.

Oh dear I HAVE to take your spin on the spiral?........why?

I could just aswell say it was a smurfs magic sleigh it is my own opinion that counts. I can read your post but I do not have to take it as gospel.
Why are you so desperate for peeps to agree with your ONE side of the arguement. I will enjoy reading all theories on the matter and not make any judgement on it. As my weight in any side of the spiral theories would be pointless.
It is a thread for giving theories of any kind not just one. It isn't a competition.
I've read the theories, learned a few things I didn't know before and chucked a few far fetched questions into the mix its been a great thread.
Till the next spiral........Peace Out

reply to post by DreamerOracle


Don't take my word for it - I never asked you to. Take the accounts of the experts I linked to. Did you even bother to read my post, or just slam it because you want to believe what you want to believe, not what the evidence points to?

It's not a competition, but when some theories have absolutely no supporting evidence, and one has masses of supporting evidence from various governments, agencies, experts, academics, and independent analysis, it's a joke to ignore it and pretend all the theories are on an equal footing.

I would just have to ask you folks, if any of you have considered that Both things may have occured simultaneously, and for a very good reason.

Ive done a bit of research on HAARP and such in the past, and there are a great many a question as to what its origin was and what its true existence is for. Also noting that other countries are conducting this type of research including Norway and Russia.

First ask yourself who funded HAARP? If memory serves me correctly it has something to do with Reagans's SDI...

Secondly what could HAARP do? (interchange EISCAT and HAARP freely)

The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) is an ionospheric research program jointly funded by the US Air Force, the US Navy, the University of Alaska and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA).[1] Its purpose is to analyze the ionosphere and investigate the potential for developing ionospheric enhancement technology for radio communications and surveillance purposes (such as missile detection).[2] The HAARP program operates a major Arctic facility, known as the HAARP Research Station, on an Air Force owned site near Gakona, Alaska.


OTH Radar imagery, Ionization of a layer of atmoshpere which could damage or destroy incoming or in this case outgoing ICBMs, VLF Communications with subs or perhaps tracking them?

All of these things become useful once you know the date and time of Russias latest and greatest ICBM. You can bet it would be of US / Norway's highest interests to accurately track, view, or disrupt Russia's next great missile.

Its a well know fact that Russia absolutley objects to HAARP, and classifies it as a Weapon, as stated here:

The HAARP project became the subject of controversy in the mid-1990s, following claims that the antennas could be used as a weapon. In August 2002, a critical mention of HAARP technology came from the State Duma (parliament) of Russia. The Duma issued a press release on the HAARP written by the international affairs and defense committees, signed by 90 deputies and presented to then President Vladimir Putin. The statement claimed:

The U.S. is creating new integral geophysical weapons that may influence the near-Earth medium with high-frequency radio waves ... The significance of this qualitative leap could be compared to the transition from cold steel to firearms, or from conventional weapons to nuclear weapons. This new type of weapons differs from previous types in that the near-Earth medium becomes at once an object of direct influence and its component.[3]

Russia would be quick to admit a lauch failure of any type versus opening itself to the fact that even its newest ICBM is vulnerable to Norway / US and the fact that they are unable shield their weapons even after several failures.


[1]^ a b "HAARP Fact Sheet". HAARP. 15 June 2007. www.haarp.alaska.edu... Retrieved 2009-09-27.
[2]^ "Purpose and Objectives of the HAARP Program". HAARP. www.haarp.alaska.edu... Retrieved 2009-09-27.
[3]^ "Russian parliament concerned about U.S. plans to create qualitatively new weapons". News Bulletin (Moscow: Interfax). 8 August 2002.

reply to post by ChrisM101


You quoted the entry from wikipedia, then directly contradicted what it said.

HAARP has no offensive capabilities at all, as it can only affect the part of the ionosphere directly above it (or to within 30 degrees using phasing). It is a research project, not an actual weapon. Its ability, and power, can not affect ICBMs in any way, apart from blocking communication to/from them, and only if they are flying directly over it.

HAARP was never the subject of controversy, it's only in the "conspiracy world" where people attribute strange abilities not founded in science, that it is at all controversial. In the world of science, where it does its work, it is not controversial at all.

Please try to understand something before trying to educate people about what it is. You appear rather clueless on the subject.

Obviously for its assocaition with SDI it would have been considered as an option to track or destroy Russian ICBMs.

Alot of the things it can do aren't posted in a Wikipedia.

Sure You really have to stretch the imagination to say HAARP and the associated projects which were initially funded by the CIA and DARPA have no weapons capability. Heck even the Wiki shows DARPA, USAF, and USN.

And there is nothing that proves to me that it can only effect something traveling over it. We state it has 1000km range for underground imaging.

And we are talking mainly about a unit based in norway, in a similar set of latitudes as HAARP and in close proximity to Russia's ICBM test area and their sub bases... im sure that is just coincidence.



Ever hear of atmospheric lensing.

reply to post by ChrisM101


The military regularly funds research into non-weapons technology. Heck, the internet was funded by the military for decades. HAARP is solely concerned with communication and surveillance. Its power is not enough to affect anything physical at any range. If you read the wiki page, you will see what its purpose is:

Its purpose is to analyze the ionosphere and investigate the potential for developing ionospheric enhancement technology for radio communications and surveillance purposes (such as missile detection).

True, researchers on the project believe it can reach 1,000km for subterranean mapping, but that is a far cry from being able to destroy or even tamper with anything.

Yes, the position of EISCAT is a coincidence with the Russian missile test range. EISCAT is concerned with the ionosphere, and just as HAARP is as northerly as it can be in order to be under the ionosphere that is affected by the aurora, so is EISCAT. Please show your evidence to the contrary, which you surely must have if you are to make such claims.

Take off your tin-foil

It really must be a nice tidy little universe in which you reside.

.Mil doesnt fund anything that doesn't help .Mil

reply to post by ChrisM101


Communications help the military. Blocking enemy satellites helps the military. Detecting and mapping enemy underground facilities helps the enemy.

Not everything that helps the military is a weapon, Einstein.

Einstein .... Think more Tesla...

No one stated it was being used as a weapon in this instance but if you can modify the atmoshpere or ionosphere in the path of a weapon being tested to the point where it creates an area of EMP, you just may disrupt its sensors or cause a loss of telemetry long enough for failsafes to take over and terminate the mission.

You can also bet that we would want the data from any radar or imagery near enough to view the launch. Maybe EISCAT is able to view, track, and image those launches.

Just like everytime we make a scheduled appearance with a B2 into a Foreign Market for airshows etc. the whole area is lit up with every different type of radar available, with companies vying to get a glimpse on their scope or data of what is or isnt there.

If you gather enough data about any launch whether successful or failure you can perceive more than just was it a good flight. But things that will point you to an actual launch in the future, such as exhaust plumes, temps, electronic telemetry emissions, sounds in the ocean, in the air, excitation of ionisphere etc.

reply to post by ChrisM101

Neither EISCAT or HAARP have anything to do with Tesla.

You can't really create "an area of EMP" (EMP is an instantaneous event) but by increasing ionization of an area you may cause problems for a vehicle transversing that region. Two problems with that idea.

1) EISCAT and HAARP are very limited in their ability to direct their heater beams. The best they can do is deflect about 30º from vertical.

2) Neither EISCAT or HAARP are capable of increasing ionization. Both heat a small area of the ionosphere (EISCAT much less so than HAARP). Neither is capable of heating that small region as much as the Sun heats the entire hemisphere of the ionosphere in the daytime.

We can be pretty sure that the Bulava launch was monitored quite closely by NATO but EISCAT is not really interested with that nor is their radar well suited to the task. We can also be pretty sure that we won't be learning what NATO learned about the launch.


[edit on 2/10/2010 by Phage]

Thirty degrees is more than adequate, but even longer distances can use the F- layer skip ability and its even more pronounced during times of higher plasma density such as peak solar activity.

1. You obviously have no idea of what a wave from HAARP does in the ionisphere, It takes the Ions from their normal random flow patterns and moves them on the Radio wave of circular polarization at just under 1Hz frequency, but which is traveling at the speed of light, so as they are on this wave during each segment of transmission they collide with the normal stable molecules of the atmosphere such as oxygen or nitrogen and transform these into Ionized Molecules. So yes they do increase the Ionization of the area of which they interact as long as signal is present.

Its funny that the corksrew effect seen in the pictures is an accurate repesentation of what circular polarization would appear as over time/distance.

2. It has everything to do with Tesla, since it operates "Radio signal" in the ranges of the Earths' natural electromagnetic resonance. And is exactly what Tesla described as the Wireless transmission of energy. His proposal included using the atmosphere 5 miles up, as an aid to air and ground transmission of energy.

Things you must consider are that the major ionispheric heaters are placed in the northern latitudes due to the magnetosphere being very much closer to the earth in those regions. Soviet Missiles must pass through the magnetosphere both on the way to the US, northern europe and their target Ranges. Create a thick blanket of fast particles in the magnetosphere and you can wipe electronics clean. HAARP can and does demonstrate this capability.

Consider also that once HAARP came on line the Cold War decidedly went kaput.

The reason GBI ABM program exists is China and NK missiles not passing through the magnetosphere en route to the US because it is farther out the further south from the pole you go. Thousands of miles into space actually.

There is alot more to HAARP technology than just researching how to make communications work better.

reply to post by ChrisM101


If you say so. Some evidence would really help your claims.

What more do you need?

EISCAT was in use:

Schedule Notes Viewer Vn 1.1.1.1
VHF: TEQUILA 2009 12 09 0700 - 2009 12 09 1000
Scheduled for 0700-1000
Description:Meteor Dust studies with VHF and Heater
Contact:Antti Kero / Markus Rapp Phone: Fax:
Email:
Responsible experimenter for VHF radar: Antti Kero
Resources: GE(20) [format: (), eg EI(50)]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes

TEQUILAsunrise (Transient Effects Quantification Under Ionospheric Low Angle sunrise). The idea is to
look at the polar wintertime mesophere through the transient
caused by (scattered) sunrise around 8 UT. Interestingly, this happens to
be the maximum occurence time of the Polar Mesosphere Winter Echoes (PMWE).


Also note that it was in use as RADAR in several ranges shown here during the time in question.

htt p://www.eiscat.se:8080/raw/schedule/schedule.cgi?year=2009&month=12&S=on&R=on&A=on&VHF=on&UHF=on&TRO=on&KIR=on&SOD=on&ESR=on&HEA=on&SPE=on



[edit on 11-2-2010 by ChrisM101]

reply to post by ChrisM101

The heater beam is not reflected by the ionosphere, it is absorbed by the region it is affecting. That is how it operates. It is capable of only affecting a region more or less overhead, certainly not 800 km away.


1) I understand something of what the HAARP heater does. Ions in the ionosphere are not moving randomly. They are trapped by magnetic lines of force in the Earth's magnetic field, moving circularly around them. This is why the aurora occur at high latitudes where the lines of force are more perpendicular to the surface. The lines of force "guide" the ions toward the surface. The HF (not 1Hz) radio energy from HAARP's heater is absorbed by the ions, causing them to rotate faster. No, HAARP does not create more ions. In fact it may reduce ion density as the heated particles are pushed out of the heated region.

It's funny, the particles do not move in a helical motion not a spiral. If you could see them it would look nothing like the Norway spiral.

2) The Earth's "natural electromagnetic resonance" (Shuman resonances) are in the ELF bands. HAARP's heater is a high frequency transmitter, operating at between 2.8MHZ and 10MHz. It is nothing like Tesla's wireless transmission of electricity and operates at altitudes of 50 miles and higher.


Do you know what a great circle route is? ICBM's from China (or North Korea) aimed at just about anywhere in the US would fly almost directly over HAARP. Those from Russia would fly over Canada. Tell me again why the cold war ended (I always thought it was due to the collapse of the Soviet Union). Tell me again why, if HAARP can knock down missiles, we need interceptors.

BTW, The magnetosphere extends to the surface of the planet everywhere. If it didn't a compass wouldn't work. It is also stronger at the surface than it is in space.

reply to post by ChrisM101

The EISCAT heater was not in operation on the day of the spiral
www.eiscat.se:8080...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 2/11/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by ChrisM101

 

The EISCAT heater was not in operation on the day of the spiral
www.eiscat.se:8080...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 2/11/2010 by Phage]

You checked heating ...
Check VHF and look it shows during that time VHF and Heating occur as part of TEQUILA it was Priority 1 and was directed by Germany.

1. You absoulutely deny HAARP's Low Frequency ability, no one is talking about the UHF VHF stuff that HAARP is doing, this is the ELF emissions HAARP is capable of.

2. ELF is a capability of HAARP they transmit at 3.9hz to communicate with US subs.

3. you are wrong about the routes, and the layers of the magnetosphere. obviously the POLEs (named for the magnetism) are areas with a higher concentration and directly from surface up. obviously the plasmasphere and van allen belts are closest here.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by ChrisM101]

reply to post by ChrisM101

The EISCAT schedule shows that the VHF radar was to be used, Which is exactly what Dr. Kero says was going on. Dr. Kero also says that his experiment did not start until 10 minutes after the spiral was seen. The heater was not in use. VHF radar does not cause ionospheric heating even when it is in use.. The spiral was not caused by EISCAT.

You said HAARP uses a frequency of 1HZ to heat the ionosphere. HAARP does not emit ELF radiation. ELF radiation is not used to heat the ionosphere, nor is UHF or VHF. The HAARP heater transmits HF radio waves.

No. I am not wrong about the missile routes. Use Google Earth. Draw a line from Korea to Washington state, the path is 300 miles from Gakona. Draw a line to Nebraska, the path is directly over Gakona.


[edit on 2/12/2010 by Phage]

1. plausible deniablity... TEQUILA uses VHF and the Heater... but i dont see them rushing to state we messed with Russias ICBMs.

2. HAARP:
" Several distinct methods for ELF/VLF generation are available to support these efforts. Proposers are encouraged to consider including the controlled ELF/VLF sources provided by the 960KW HF transmitter of the HAARP, presently under construction outside Gakona, Alaska and the HIPAS facility located near Fairbanks, Alaska. PL/GPS is the program manager for the HAARP facility. The Office of Naval Research controls the HIPAS facility. Both sites will be available to support the research efforts under this PRDA. "

3. China and NK would be more interested in Aiming at Los Angeles, San Francisco, and San Diego than Nebraska.