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What Kinds of guns not to buy

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posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by The Lord and Savior
 


Lord and Savior, I sent you a u2u, check your messages. I will help any way I can. If Semper or anyone else has idea's on what to look for in a eastern euro AK during a pre-purchase feel free to chime in. JS




posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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As a JFK firearms researcher stated, a oily Mannlicher-Carcano with a loose scope requiring shims between the base of the scope and the rifle scope rail is about as bad as you can get. Muzzle velocity less than 2200 fps.

You have to also move your head to fully actuate the bolt and then must take more time to reaquire your target. 2 hits and a miss in less than 6 seconds with this hunk of garbage.

Pardon be if I don't believe it or care to own one.

Senator Chris Dodd may have one in his garage!! A present from his Daddy.

By the way I love my Glock 27 and can usually hit a 6" target @ 50 yards. Much more accurate than my Beretta 92F. The Glock fits nicely in a jacket pocket.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 06:02 AM
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reply to post by Oldnslo
 





As a JFK firearms researcher stated, a oily Mannlicher-Carcano with a loose scope...


Yeah. Rambo used a M60, the big dummy! Jesse Ventura used a minigun, the idiot! Hey, it's ALL fiction.

One shot by the Magic Rifleman with the Magic Rifle shooting the Magic Bullet and voila! No more enemies! Then there's nothing to do but eat, sleep, and live off the fat of the land.

I gotta get me one of those.

I've had bad luck with handguns larger than .22. I bought a para ordnance p14-45, trigger smooth as melted butter, never a malfunction, and couldn't hit a target worth a damn. Now I'm not too crazy about spending that kind of money on another one.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 07:01 AM
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Let me clear something up...
Pistols and by that I mean Auto loaders, out of the box with no custom tuning are not meant to be super accurate.., they are meant to be rugged and reliable, made to a looser tolerance so a little dirt in the action doesn't gum up the works...

target and comp guns are made to a much higher standard, tighter tolerances, better fit and finish. but by doing so they lose a bit of that ruggedness. you have, to have to have to keep them meticulously clean!

Don't expect an out of the box pistol to print MOA (1 inch groups at 100 yards) Even the best match grade pistols wont do that. You can get close with a few of the large framed hunting revolvers (8 or 10 inched barrels) my best group ever was three inches at 100 yards with a scoped, heavily customized Dan Wesson 44 mag. but that's apples and oranges, pistols were designed for close combat not tack driving

PS: if your looking for a good hunting revolver take a close look at the Dan Wesson's Great gun and good price on used ones.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 





Don't expect an out of the box pistol to print MOA ...


I'm not sure if you're responding to me. If not, forgive me.

But I don't expect that. No one with a brain does. I DO expect to get better 25 yard groups than the > 12" ones I shot. I've shot better than 3" at 50 yards with a stock .22 Ruger, just playing around.

If someone can get 6" 50 yard groups out of one of a higher caliber, like someone posted above, then for the several hundred $$$ (close to 1000 for the "Limited" series) I paid I expect to get those same results without having to fork over even more money to fix a problem that shouldn't even exist.

It pisses me off even thinking about it.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by PSUSA
 


Well I wasn't picking on you specify but you brought up a point that a new to the sport wouldn't necessarily know... remember on TV the hero always makes the 1,000 yard shot with the rusty ole pistol he took off the body of one the dead bad guys... oh and on TV they never run out of ammo...unless it adds drama to the scene
learn to count your shoots

[edit on 16-12-2009 by DaddyBare]



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 08:24 AM
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Yeah, and don't forget, their guns dont recoil either.

I think that a good percentage of those that buy a rifle and 1000 rounds and think they are prepared for shtf will be in for a rude awakening.

I bet there are a lot of people out there like that. With both rifles and especially ammo being bought like never before, I bet the ranges aren't seeing an increase in shooters to match the buying spree. But I could be wrong. I'm saving my ammo and haven't been to the range lately.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by PSUSA
 


you might be supprised...
my youngest son and I try to get out to the range...twice a month... weather permitting... in the past it was pretty much the same old faces but latey there have been a fair number of new guys, and ladies, with bright shiney new guns... True some of them will take a couple shoots... put it away and we never see them again...



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 09:20 AM
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Given the recent turn in the conversation, I would have to say the worst gun purchased is the one that is never used. If you never practice and become accustomed to the individual quirks of a particular gun and how it fits with your shooting style, then it was a most definitely a bad purchase.

And while discussing shooting, a world on ammo. The harder to find ammo will naturally be harder to find. Even the venerable .357 magnum is becoming harder to find here locally. So the special rounds that only sell to a short list of specific guns are a risk.

Some will say that reloading your own is a way to protect against ammo shortages. Start up costs are pretty steep and you can only reuse your brass so many times.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


well that's not entirely true
Lee Pro 1000 reloading press will only set you back just over $160 So lets say your paying $30 bucks a box thats the same price of five boxes and the Lee is a nice easy to use station press

dont get any easier than that.

[edit on 16-12-2009 by DaddyBare]



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


I was looking at the total start up: powder, primers, scales, lead, molds, brass (of needed calibers), work space, etc.

My guess is around $500 startup cost...give or take. Not saying that it is a bad investment mind you. It is just something to keep in consideration as many new gun owners typically spend as much as they can spare on their first gun and it takes time to rebuild that spending money



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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no glock 40, model 22 or 23,or the micro. the cops are having problems with em look online,police problems with glock 40's.longslide glocks are great,any caliber,S&W revolvers are the WHORES of the gun world,there are good ones and bad ones,learn how to check used guns,ethier online or buy a book.a 357 revolver 4inch is the best all a round pistol.only RUGER revolvers can be dissasembled and reassembled by owner.if you drop revolver in sand or mud or river you will have to take it apart and put it back together to get the crud out of it,and to get it working.some people carry snubnose 38 in pants pocket for years and think it will work just fine ,WRONG!! there is a lot of crap and lint in pocket that can jam revolver up.thats why no police or military in the world issues revolvers anymore.get SS guns, wont cost much more than blue steel.most AK's have chrome lined bores,but some dont make sure your's does.mauser bolt action rifles are a crap shoot, some new , some dangerous, & everything in between.SAIGA AK's are good , but mags cost too much,EURO AK's have scope mount rail on left side chinese AK's dont.AK's dont like soft point ammo, but they will feed HP.buy something late model that has been made for decades so that you can get spare parts.old semi-autopistols may not feed JHP,newer guns will.DPMS or OLYMPIC AR-15's are crap,bushmaster ar's are good,nothing wrong with ruger mini 14's,execpt the early ones rear sight is crapy,newer ones are better,more accurate,you cant get spare parts from ruger for any gun ,ruger wont sell them,all deringers ,they are too hard to hold and shoot , they are just too small,they must be used with both hands, and that may not be possible ,most are junk.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by madokie]

[edit on 17-12-2009 by madokie]

[edit on 17-12-2009 by madokie]

[edit on 17-12-2009 by madokie]

[edit on 18-12-2009 by madokie]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by PSUSA


. . .

Dont buy cheap weapons. Never.

. . .

[edit on 13/12/09 by PSUSA]


I have to disagree with you.

HiPoint are very very good guns. I have .45 with over 10k rounds through it, and a 9 with about half of that. They each jammed twice within the first one hundred rounds, and never again.

Same for the two HiPoint Carbine's that I have, of the same calibers.

They are reliable as my Glock's (same calibers), and a fraction of the price. The .45 has been through hell. The 9 is my wife's, so not so much hell.


Plus they have a no questions asked lifetime warranty. If anything AT ALL goes wrong with the gun, it is fixed free of charge (and they pay return shipping) with no questions asked . . . even if it is the users fault.

Plus, they are made in the good ol' USA.

Reliability, unlimited lifetime warranty, nationally made . . . can't go wrong.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 06:33 AM
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Vented barrel hand guns.

Yeah, they seem like a great idea when you are reading the literature and looking for a 'smarter' choice for a first gun, one making use of the magic of modern technology and applied science. Who wouldn't want lower recoil and tighter groupings, and the ability to get them from a .44 or .357 or .45?

The thing is, vented barrels are effing crazy-a$$ sideways/up-down flame throwers. Shoot one from inside your car, and you'll light the headliner/interior on fire, and that could include your clothes or those of one of your passengers. And of course the problem extends to any confined space, like a bar, or any sort of crowded or confined area, and of course probably including basically any interior space when you aren't sure when/where you'll be when you pull the trigger, like for example defending your house/domicile. Also, in the dark, with night adjusted vision, the jet of fire would blind you momentarily.

So it's a cool idea, but pretty much a range-only target shooting type thing for the time being.


Originally posted by mazzroth
I want to be able to hit a Rabbit at 50 metres for my dinner...I want accuracy baby!!


Uh you want to shoot rabbits with a hand gun? I guess there must be people who do it for the challenge?

An air rifle is an interesting idea for cost/ammo availability in a post-apocalyptic future. Lewis and Clark took a 'high tech' air rifle with them on their famous expedition west. It was for the express purpose of hunting small game. Theirs was a pump action job, and choosing pump action means you don't even have to worry about powering an air compressor to fill those little cylinders, not that you couldn't do that. Over pump it though and you will have to figure out how to repair the air bladder, or a little interior seal or something like that. Also, you could use the ammo with a sling shot, and it shouldn't be hard to find the parts to make one in a pinch, depending on where the heck you are of course.

A .22 (rifle) would be a better idea for accuracy from a firearm, and of course better still, thinking back to growing up near a rabbit hunting neighbor...he used a shot gun of some sort, obviously it couldn't have been at the high end for power, and I'm sure the choice of load matters a lot for small game. But it was definitely a shot gun and some kind of shot load, as I learned to be careful when invited over to eat his catch due to his occasionally missing a little buckshot ball when he cleaned it up lol. Rabbit makes great bbq though, grills up great!

Also, something you might consider if you get really into small game...he raised beagles, and always took a few with him.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by 11andrew34]

[edit on 18-12-2009 by 11andrew34]

[edit on 18-12-2009 by 11andrew34]



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 07:05 AM
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The worst gun I have ever owned is a Cobray M-11 9mm. The firing pin has snapped in half twice. And that's over a time period of running about 600 rounds through it. I will say they did send out a new firing pin and even gave me an extra one. Just tells me they know this is a problem. Completely unreliable gun.

As for sub-compacts; I carry a Kahr MK-40 that is very reliable. Also a XD40 also very reliable.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by VAPatriot
The worst gun I have ever owned is a Cobray M-11 9mm. The firing pin has snapped in half twice. And that's over a time period of running about 600 rounds through it. I will say they did send out a new firing pin and even gave me an extra one. Just tells me they know this is a problem. Completely unreliable gun.

As for sub-compacts; I carry a Kahr MK-40 that is very reliable. Also a XD40 also very reliable.


Thanks for the reminder...
Years ago I got this Intratec 9mm in trade... it's kind of like your m-11 in that it kinds of looks like a sub machine gun... Anyway if your weren't careful it wasn't hard to push the Mag to far into the gun... the front grip was a forward handle of sorts and you had to be careful to keep your hands off the mag or the recoil might make it pop out of the gun too... Stay away from the Intratec....

PS I have a XD-40 too and I like it just fine...



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by PSUSA
I DO expect to get better 25 yard groups than the > 12" ones I shot. I've shot better than 3" at 50 yards with a stock .22 Ruger, just playing around.

If someone can get 6" 50 yard groups out of one of a higher caliber, like someone posted above, then for the several hundred $$$ (close to 1000 for the "Limited" series) I paid I expect to get those same results without having to fork over even more money to fix a problem that shouldn't even exist.

It pisses me off even thinking about it.


Think about that though, 25 yards is 75 feet, further away from you than the pitcher is from a batter in baseball, but closer than 1st base (60 ft 6 inches from the pitcher to home, 90 ft for a base path). 50 yards is 150 feet is half a foot ball field, and further than home plate to 2nd base (~127ft).

I wouldn't be surprised if those little Para Ordinance guns were harder to set up and maintain than your average gun. I've noticed they are a favorite of special forces type units, and those guys have the best, busiest gun maintenance people there are, on average. Just because they use it doesn't mean everyone should, it might require very capable technicians. A high maintenance gun or difficult level maintenance gun isn't a good idea for anyone who isn't into the technical side of gun maintenance, in the way that a finicky sports car isn't a good choice for anyone who isn't at least an experienced amateur mechanic, doesn't want to become one, or isn't rich enough to become a close personal friend of your local mechanic, and put one of his kids through school. And military guys tend to forget that they actually do have loads of training and experience compared to even a big chunk of the amateur hobbyists. And of course enthusiasts at the high end of the experience scale can have the same issue. What seems easy to them may or may not be easy to an average man-in-the-street.

In particular, I noticed that it was the Seals and also Japan's Special Boarding Unit that used them. What that says to me is that those guns must be just fine and desirable even for ranges from point blank to maybe 30 or 50 feet, and for use in small/cramped spaces, like corridors on a boat. They must work well for those distances, and the smallness of the gun becomes an advantage for carrying it, and aiming it etc. Even if they can do more well, it can't be what they are for, their basic purpose. So depending on the maintenance issue, they'd probably also be a good idea for use inside your house.

What's the stat again that's quoted all the time, I bet somebody here can just rattle it off without looking, or I'd look it up heh...but it's something like 'XX% of gun fights take place at under XX feet/yards distance,' I remember the short version of the answer was "really short" and not further than across a large interior space.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 08:06 AM
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Never buy a weapon without a safety on it.

You're just asking for trouble.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by Nate8727
 


What kind of trouble?

I have several firearms without some mechanical safety and none of them are more likely to load themselves and walk down the street and shoot up the town than the firearms with mechanical safeties.

You're never to rely on a mechanical safety. Whether one is present or not should have no bearing on how you treat the firearm. Safe is safe. The button on the side, switch on the back or lever by the grip may as well not even be there. If you're expecting some mechanical device to prevent accidents you probably shouldn't be handling a firearm in the first place.



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by 11andrew34
 


not only do 'XX% of gun fights take place at under XX feet/yards distance,'
XX% (99%) of time you learn you just walked into a gun fight only after someone is shooting at you.... that's why, if you ever take a combat shooting class, they teach you the rock and lock...AKA Quick draw.

Rock an lock is not something you should learn from a youtube vid... that is something you should seek out professional instruction to learn



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