"Survival" outing results

Well, the trip is over, and we're back!

Wow what a great experience & good times with my son. No deer on this trip but we had a great time anyways. We saw a few Mule deer does but unfortunately we do not have muley tags. Stupid KDWP (Kansas Department of Wildlife & Parks) guidelines. The darn things are rampant out there. IMO the deer season should be about 8 months longer than it is.

It was VERY tempting to shoot one of those muley doe's but I decided against it. I'm certain the landowner wouldn't have cared -- he told me as much. But I still had to drive back 200 miles home with a deer carcass in the truck bed, too risky I'd get checked on the way home.

So on to the story. We showed up around lunchtime Monday. The landowner drove us around a bit, showed us some of his property and I noted some areas of interest (pond, creek bottoms, etc.). Lots of brushy areas, brush so thick you couldn't even walk through it. 17,000 acres of beautiful Kansas prairie.

First off let me clarify that yes, I realize this is not a TRUE survival situation. Our lives really aren't that much in danger. I'm a 20-minute walk from my car, and a house with warmth, food, etc. The point here was to take off, test out some gear, and spend some time in nature.

So, we throw on packs, coveralls and start walking towards the pond, maybe a 1.5 miles from his house. Seemed like our best bet. We walked around for abit looking for tracks & droppings. Plenty of wildlife tracks everywhere, bobcat, deer, coyote. Pond is frozen, lots of driftwood laying around so we gather up a small pile for a fire that night.

Chopped through 3" of ice ice at the pond and try out the Katadyn water filter. The pond was frozen, so hard to tell, but I'd be that water was pretty nasty. I could see duckweed frozen in the ice and that stuff usually likes pretty murky water. The Katadyn produced almost purely clear water, slight yellow color, but did nothing to improve the taste. Not un-drinkable, but definitely had a "swampy" flavor. No ill affects from drinking the water.

We decided to setup camp first. Found a nice grassy flat area & pitched our tent there. Left our packs and setup a blind around dusk hoping for some deer to pass through some trails nearby. It's about 20*F and snowing lightly, slight breeze.

Set in the blind for maybe 2 hours didn't see any deer. Man did I wish I had brought a shotgun though. We saw so many pheasant I couldn't have carried enough ammo to shoot them all. Darn things were popping up everywhere we walked.

Headed back to camp right before it got dark. There was maybe 1/2" of snow on the ground at this point. The camp area was full of 8" tall VERY dry grass and even with a bit of snow on the ground I was worried about setting the place ablaze. Fortunately we found and old piece of steel sheet metal laying by the pond and we fashioned it into a small fire pit. Didn't bring any tinder with us but an abundance of dry grass, brush, etc. made getting the fire going pretty easy. Used one of those magnesium fire starters. They work quite well!

Brought one of those Mountain House dehydrated meals with us, figured I'd try out the penny stove for cooking up a meal. My review on the Heineken penny stove is mixed. The stove works great in ideal conditions, and is more lightweight than anything you can buy. It is VERY sensitive to even the slightest breeze and will blow out easily. I kindof knew this beforehand and brought a folded up piece of aluminum foil with me to use as a windscreen. Regular ol' Reynolds Wrap works OK if you fold it over several times to make the foil thicker. Some type of heavier foil or even a very thin roll of sheet metal would work much better. Fortunately the breeze was light and we made due.

Continued . . .

My other problem with the penny stove was -- believe it or not -- the light weight! A normal "camp stove" has some mass to it, and you can set it on the ground and it's pretty stable, but this stove is so light it was hard to get it to set right in the grass so we could cook. I ended up setting it inside the frying pan of my mess kit, so it had a flat, even surface to set on. A large flat rock or something could work as well.

The mess kit I bought left some to be desired as well. Definitely high on my list of items for our next outing is a decent packable set of pots/pans. Stay away from anything resembling this. The frying pan could be useful I suppose for frying up game you've caught but cleaning is a major PITA unless you've got some oil to cook with. 80% of what you'll use a stove for is boiling water or heating up other liquids. This kit has a small saucepot but the handle on it sucks, water spills everywhere when you try to pick it up. It's lightweight but a sturdier pot is more desirable, IMO, despite the additional weight. Something like this would be much better, with handles on the sides of each pot, rather than a pivoting handle that goes across the top. Plus the non-stick surface would be a bonus too.

The Mountain House meal was GREAT. Quite possibly the best meal I've eaten while camping. A nice, hot chicken noodle soup in this weather was absolutely delicious. The package says two servings but for a hungry hiker I'd say it's a single serving. Great product though. Boil two cups of water, pour into the bag, seal it shut and it's ready to eat in 8 minutes. The packages (bag meals) are supposed to last seven years, if you buy the larger meals in cans they're supposed to last for 25 years! The "2-serving" bags can be purchased at Wal-mart or almost anyplace that sells camping stuff for about $8 each. The nice thing about the bag is when you're done, just throw the bag on your fire and no clean-up!

We talked around the fire for a bit and decided to hit the sack. By this time the snow is coming down pretty hard, wind has kicked up slightly but not too bad.

The sleeping bags worked OK. According to weather.com on my phone (yes it actually worked out here!) the temp was 4*F that night. We were both too chicken to get undressed before climbing in the sleeping bag so we slept in our coveralls. Despite the 0*F rating on these bags we were COLD. I discovered later that sleeping in heavy clothes like that is actually worse than stripping down to your skivvies before climbing in your bag. In clothes, you're warm for the first 30 minutes or so, then you sweat, and you get cold as hell after that. Lesson learned. It was a long night.

By morning there's 5" of snow on the ground and the wind is blowing fierce. Still snowing pretty hard. We head straight for the blind and hang there for an hour or two, not a deer in sight. Apparently we were the only ones dumb enough to be out in this weather. Deer tend to bed down in extreme cold like this, but I was hoping we'd see at least one come out and nose around for food. No such luck.

Lunchtime -- MRE's. Frozen solid. Canteens -- frozen solid. Unfortunately MRE heaters don't put out enough heat to warm up a frozen entre. Defrosted, yes, but definitely not hot. The canteens we use are standard GI canteens with cover, cup, etc. Used the cups in our canteens to melt some snow over the penny stove for a drink.

Continued . . .

We pack things up and decide to hike around a bit to see if we can scare up any deer that might be hiding out in low-lying areas, creek beds, treelines, etc. to stay out of the cold. We scare up one mule deer doe -- big fat one -- but like I said we have no mule deer tags. Plus it's pretty tough shooting at a deer on the run at 50yds, quartered away from you.

Around 4pm we head back, knowing that the 4-hour drive ahead of us will probably be more like 6 hrs due to the weather. There's about 8" of snow on the ground now, windy as all get out, pretty miserable. We're cold & tired. I swear we must have seen sixty pheasant that day. Man I was wishing I had brought my 12ga!

All in all it was a great trip. Honestly our biggest problem was keeping our drinking water from freezing. When we wanted a drink our choice was to eat snow or break out the stove to melt snow. Eating snow works fine I suppose but it's counter-productive when you're trying to keep warm. Kinda like drinking hot chocolate to cool off when it's 100* outside. In hindsight, we should have poured out our canteens the night before, and re-filled them with warm water from the stove that morning, hopefully the insulated cover would have kept them from freezing throughout the day, or at least until we drank them empty. As it was they were mostly full that night, and frozen solid by morning, no way to thaw them out.

Another big mistake was to sleep in our cover-alls. As much as you may dread doing it, get UNDRESSED before climbing into your sleeping bag! I know it sounds crazy but trust me you'll be warmer!

Well, that's my story. Sorry for the long posts. Can't wait to do this again!

Sounds great! I'd love to test out my gear in a similar scenario! I also chat on a muzzle loading forum, in which ppl camp in period correct gear...I'd also love to try that too! lol
One thing they used from the mid 1800s on for boiling water or making single servings of soups was a mucket, usually made of tin or copper. You can find them cheap ($20 - $25) at some sites but on dixie gun works they are $40. They are lightweight and can be used to store things in as you hike, still a good choice for survival camping IMO



[edit on 12/13/2009 by AnonymousMoose]

Lessons learned, this is what survival is all about.
Going out there and giving it a go, the more one experiences what it's like to be out in the wilderness for days or weeks at a time without all the comforts of home is something that helps to better the trip for the next time round.
first hand learning and knowledge of what one might encounter or the types of gear and tools needed to deal with such areas in different seasons, can only add to the skills needed to survive.
good going.

Glad your trip went well Mort! Your canteens wont freeze if you keep them inside your coat. As for going to bed in your coveralls, sorry but

To heat your bag take a few coals and put them in a covered pot and stick that inside your bag for a few minutes before sacktime. Be sure to move it around every minute or two or you can burn your bag,

Aside from those 2 issues it sounds like everything else was a success, most people wouldve had more problems than that so I'd say you did quite well. If your son had a great time then I would say you had a total success. It's all about passing on your love and knowledge of the outdoors.
Maybe you could do an ice fishing trip soon?

As an alternative to carrying canteens you can use bladder hydration bags that stay inside your clothing very easily and won't freeze, I carry water by both methods as I have found you can never carry too much water!

As for cooking I;ve learned to cook about anything with a GI canteen cup. Get the stainless ones rather than the aluminum.

Let us know how your next trip goes (and take some pictures!)

always sleep in the nude in your bag. And place the clothes you plan on wearing the next day under you. You'll wake up warm and have warm clothes to put on.

your body's heat will radiate within the bag and (assuming its a decent cold weather bag) get trapped in. The bag will slowly warm up to near body temperature levels.

I know it seems crazy to take off your clothes in the winter but it really works. I slept in a mummy bag in the middle of a snowbank in Germany once. It was below zero and snowing with a horrid wind blowing. I woke up toasty warm !

oh and if your really cold and the bag isnt trapping in enough heat. Put some rocks near your campfire. Once heated, place under your armpits and the back of your neck

At least you had fun, and learnt a little from your experiences, thats whats its all about , well done.

I'd love to try something like that but unfortunately theres nowhere here in the UK we can actually lose ourselves, sure there are large forests but a lot of them your not allowed to camp in overnight. I was thinking or trying to find a large forest in France that I could camp in for a few days so if anyone has any ideas on one , please let me know. Preferably one where people won't be tripping up over my tent.

Very good, thanks for the input, opinions, what went wrong, all in all, thanks for sharing... glad you and the family had fun. Keep it up...i certainly hope to read and/or see more...

Great job MORT, Glad you took the good out of this and learned from your mistakes, Not alot i can add to this that other "survivalists" haven't added.
A few pictures next time to get the feel of your environment would be great
Also as i mentioned before a hand crank dynamo lantern great to recharge your camera phone..
Look forward to your next outing

Heres a good idea for your itinerary MORT,
It has a hand crank to power the lamp, And there is a spotlight fitted as well, also included is a radio and for emergencies a siren/lamp (very loud)
And external ports to charge your mobile,
A great buy at under 30 quid....

Originally posted by DataWraith
At least you had fun, and learnt a little from your experiences, thats whats its all about , well done.

I'd love to try something like that but unfortunately theres nowhere here in the UK we can actually lose ourselves, sure there are large forests but a lot of them your not allowed to camp in overnight. I was thinking or trying to find a large forest in France that I could camp in for a few days so if anyone has any ideas on one , please let me know. Preferably one where people won't be tripping up over my tent.

I'm sure Scotland has different rules to camping out over night than what the England has....

I hope someone here could verify this.

Edit, I have found this link Wild camping

This might be useful for us in the UK

[edit on 16-12-2009 by colec156]

reply to post by foxhoundone


Nice bit of equipment there Foxhoundone, I have the Eton FR350, it's not got any lantern function but type it into google and have a look.
It works for me.

reply to post by Mortimer452


I am very impressed and glad you had a good time.
Sometimes I wish the UK was more like the USA with regards to wild camping etc.

S&F

Thanks!

Eating snow works fine I suppose but it's counter-productive when you're trying to keep warm.

It's also dangerous.

Eating ice or snow can reduce your body temperature and it is not pure. Don't eat it. Snow and ice can be used for drinking water but only after boiling.

www.natureskills.com...

Thanks for all the comments & suggestions everyone.

I seriously thought about warming up some rocks by the fire and putting those inside the tent, or inside my bag even, but I swear there wasn't a rock to be found anywhere nearby! Seriously!

We plan to make another similar outing during extended firearms season for deer, probably someplace a bit closer. There's a large campground adjacent to some public hunting area about 70 miles from my house, hopefully we'll have better luck getting a deer! Extended firearms season in KS is antlerless only so no trophy bucks.

I did bring a small crank flashlight with me, that has a USB plug I can charge my phone from, but it didn't work. Tried it out at the house before hand and worked great, maybe it was the cold? It's a Jeep brand crank flashlight/phone charger.

Here's a pic of the tent in the morning, held up OK under the snow but could have been better. It was definitely a bit cramped inside with the walls bowing in. You can see the twisted sheet metal hobo fire pit we made to the left of the tent.


Here's a nice pic towards the pond area from the campsite:


[edit on 12/16/2009 by Mortimer452]

[edit on 12/16/2009 by Mortimer452]

What do you think of a rocket stove?
It would take very little fodder to keep the fire going and the heat would be more direct.

If you are going to use canteens, why not fill them with hot water before bedtime and put those in your sleeping bag to warm it? Also, you could do this during the day and carry them inside jacket if you are cold. If you get thirsty, there should be plenty of fresh snow and you can pour the water over some snow in a cup if the water is still too warm for drinking.



[edit on 17-12-2009 by Alethea]

I tried to edit to post this video. Didn't work for some reason.






There are several variations on this theme. Look around and find one that suits you.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by Alethea]

reply to post by Alethea


Rocket stoves are very cool, great for a hideout house or other semi-permanent structure you'd be staying at during a survival situation, especially if fuel was scarce, such as twigs, pine cones, etc. But not very practical for a BOB or short 2-day backpacking trip such as this. I've seen smaller ones designed for camping/backpacking but they usually require a battery-powered fan to get the necessary draft going to make it work.

Sounds like a fun trip. I had a nice 6 day trip in the Rockies where the elevation was around 10,500 feet. It was during the summer but we got snowed on two of the nights. Your story makes me wish I would have picked up my elk and deer license this year If nothing else, would have gotten away from civilization for a while to reconnect.

For the sleeping bag I'd recommend a silk or flannel liner to wrap up in. Makes it amazingly warm IMO. Another recommendation is to bring Kool-Aid or some sort of powdered drink mix for the water. I like to bring a sandwich baggie of Gator-ade mix (Electrolytes are important!)

The suggestion for rocks is great. Has been used for centuries for cold nights. Just be careful when heating the rock. Too quickly and it will spall (chip, explode, fragment, whatever word works best for you).

Also a bivvy sack is an alternative to the tent and much much less weight consuming. Most have a pole or two that goes with them that will keep your head and face from being suffocated.

For a stove I have a Brunton Stove that burns just about any fuel possible. Really lightweight, and compact. And uses a Sigg Bottle. The bottles can also be used for just about any kind of liquid storage. For coffee though I picked up a Jet Boil. The only problem is Airlines don't like the compressed fuel canisters. But it is a fantastic coffee press and is quite quick at brewing up a nice cup o' joe.

Again, sounded like a fantastic trip. I think the snowstorm that hit, while it might have made the trip more chilly...It gave that eye-opening experience that weather can change at any time, and it's always good to be prepared just in case the worst does happen to happen. Good luck on further expeditions. And don't forget the cribbage board for those dull days up in the stand!