Do you believe our consciouness lives on after death?

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posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by disfugured
reply to post by Chainmaker
 


That might be so from your religious point of view, but to straight up say others are wrong just because you put all your faith in a book written 700 years after Jesus died.. is pretty narrow.



I have spent much time in my life researching history, politics and religion, as well as all this conspiracy stuff.

The conspiracies all make sense in a Christian view, there's nothing mysterious about it. There is a reason why the controlling elites are always involved with secret societies that always are associated with occult pagan rituals.

My faith is not a blind faith, and an open and honest heart will see the truth within the Bible.

Jesus said everybody that disagreed with him was wrong. I agree with him.




posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 02:19 AM
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To answer your question straight away, Yes, I havn't a bit of doubt.
A lessor experience than the video yet very simalar.
Having been outside of my body as a fully conscious young adult.
Let me tell you all, It may be hear say. It is what I say and I did not
come to ATS to tell exaggerated stories, or lie, or to decieve, in
any way.

Skimming over all the pages behind us now, I have noticed the usual wide range of answers. From those who are dead wrong with their hope
that there is no such thing as God. Some how claiming that to believe
in a hereafter is," narsacistic fantasies"? I don't know. To the absolutly lost.


i'm not sure, i hope not because this is all just so amazing and beautiful, i guess we cannot know until we die!


and


I do not believe that it does. I'm actually quite comfortable in this view as well, it scares me more to think that it would live on. I have a very irrational fear that it might live on, but not be able to leave your body, if this were the case cremation and burial would be torture on the soul.


That is why there is a book to inform you of these matters. A book that
if found in a dig only yesterday. That we had never known about.
Would likely be marveled at as the greatest archeological find for all time.
If there is a life after death, ( no doubt for me ) then only blind stupidity,
or wilfull density, would ask that God be proven upon someones demand.
When so many others know the proof is right here in front of us all the time, consistently, in your face, every day, so it would be ever lasting foolishness to deny. There is none so blind, as those who will not see.
Abraham Lincoln once said," I can see how some one can look around
this earth ( that man has been given dominion over) and claim there is no God. What I fail to see, is how some one can look into the heavens and
still make that claim".

I almost forgot to mention the responses of pure truth and absolute
logic. example:
chainmaker

Jesus said everybody that disagreed with him was wrong. I agree with him.


His will be done!
The book of death is with man.
The book of life is with God.
It should be everyones hope to have your name written in the booh of life.
Who could possibly , in their right mind want death?







[edit on 21-12-2009 by randyvs]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 02:35 AM
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My own personal opinion, I know for a fact there is no death. There is a spirit plane; heaven, hell; mist of gray, waiting station; learning area, call it what you want. It will be different for different people. A lot of people are in for a rude awakening!



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by Indigo_Child
 



I'm sorry, but once again, you're being irrational. You assume that since we don't yet know certain things about how the brain works, and how consciousness arises, the mind must exist outside of the brain.


That is not an assumption, it is a fact that there is nothing in physics that can account for conscious experience. There is no reason to believe that it is otherwise.


You use the hard problem of consciousness, and the inability of science to as of yet pinpoint exactly how memory works, to back up this claim. That doesn't make sense.


Not just me, but neuroscientists and neurophilosophers. It makes sense to them that this is a genuine problem in the studies of consciousness. You are neither a neuroscientist, a neruophilosopher, nor educated in Philosophy like me - so what difference does it make if it does not make sense to you, when it makes sense to the people that matter?


I too have had vivid conscious experiences that could be called astral projections. I don't see them as anything other than the imagination at work.


Well, this is why you are not spiritually evolving. You are denying the truth when it is staring you directly in the face. Anyway, eventually you will accept this when you mature.


Funny you say that I'm in the same group as people believing in aliens, gods, etc...Yet your username is indigochild!!
Also, you're the one who believes in aliens, annunaki, depopulation, etc..I've read your previous threads. Not buying into your bs. I do realize you're very capable of being manipulative.


This is an irrelavent adhomniem attack. The point I was making that you said that you simply accept it on the basis of belief that the brain is causing consciousness, then it is no different to somebody accepting gods, aliens, fairies, Atlantis on belief either. Why are your beliefs better than their beliefs?

I have so far presented you a reasoned argument for why consciousness is separate from the brain, supported by various arguments and evidences in neurophilosophy and neuroscience. It is unfortunate that you have let this deteroritate into adhominem attacks, and by doing so showing yourself to be unworthy of my discussion. I will not be responding to you any further as you clearly are not mature enough to hold a mature discussion.


[edit on 21-12-2009 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:26 AM
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reply to post by Chainmaker
 



Originally posted by Chainmaker
Don't be fooled.


I think that sums up your post in a very decent way.


-v



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 10:38 AM
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As is sit here watching the snowflakes drifting down. Each flake adding to the one blanket of snow, only to dissolve into water, to be evaporated and return to the place from which it came.

I cant help feeling that some part of us comes to experience the same. Constantly expanding and contracting in the cycle of life. It is demonstrated in nature everywhere. Why would i believe we are any different.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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If anyone really took time to think about the nature of the universe, then it's quite an artistically creative place. The universe has the potential to produce life, despite it appearing as a vast place where rocks and highly combustible chemicals reside. It has the potential to produce love, intelligence, conscious despite appearing lifeless. It has the potential to produce many interacting minds that can cooperate to produce unimaginable creative progress. The potential the universe has to offer is unlimited, it's creative in nature, and all things are a possibility, but tapping this potential will yield work from the collective interacting creative energy of thoughts.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by Indigo_Child
 


You haven't presented me reasoning, you've twisted some theories with assumption. I think you meant Ad Hominem. While I did attack your character, I also attacked you lack in criticality, and manipulative nature when presenting beliefs as facts. You did that in the depopulation thread. You're doing it here. I'm mature enough to stand up to a bully like you


Once again, you state it's not an assumption that their is still a problem with understanding where consciousness arises. I never said otherwise! I said that this problem does not hint, suggest, or imply that consciousness arises outside of the brain. It merely implies that we don't yet know much of how the mind works yet. That's it! Anything else is belief. Much like the belief in god. We do know that we know next to nothing, but that doesn't mean a god must exist.

I have progressed enough spiritually to see that sometimes taking a few steps back and seeing exactly where my "progress" has taken me, leads me to understand I wasn't truly taking steps forward after all. I suggest you consider doing the same.

Oh btw, I have a friend who is about to get her masters in neuroscience. We debate all the time. In the beginning of her schooling, we saw very different perspectives. As she progressed, we came much more in line. She readily admits now that we know very little about how the mind operates. She sees no reason to think that the mind exists separately from the body. I do admit that I have only a GED. This does not in any way mean that my perspective doesn't matter. I'm not an idiot, and I'm not institutionalized, or over intellectualizing. I'm presenting very common sense, logical approaches that you seem not able to confront entirely. It's obvious by your sidestepping.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by unityemissions]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
I said that this problem does not hint, suggest, or imply that consciousness arises outside of the brain. It merely implies that we don't yet know much of how the mind works yet. That's it! Anything else is belief.


Science has allowed us to understand a lot of correlations between brain activity and perceived conscious states.

However, from a logical point of view it seems obvious to me that the mind is fundamentally separate from the brain.



Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by unityemissions
Actually, it takes in information not only from our body, but from the environment as well.


Your body takes information from the environment.
Your brain synthesizes this information into consciousness.
Your mind observes and responds to the conscious experience.


Originally posted by unityemissions
The idea that the mind is non-physical is nothing more than belief.


The idea that the mind is created by the physical brain is nothing more than an illusion.

The mind is fundamentally non-physical, it responds to the physical.


Originally posted by unityemissions
How am I to observe without sensation or imagination? Where does sensation and imagination come from? The brain. Their is no observer without the brain. It's really not hard to grasp at.


Your mind is the entity that "feels" a sensation.
Your brain creates the sensation.

The brain can not "feel" anymore than the left toe can.
It can only pass the message.


Originally posted by unityemissions
Sometimes reality is just not as interesting as fantasy.


I disagree.


Originally posted by unityemissions
This is nothing to fear.


I agree.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by Chainmaker

Originally posted by disfugured
reply to post by Chainmaker
 


That might be so from your religious point of view, but to straight up say others are wrong just because you put all your faith in a book written 700 years after Jesus died.. is pretty narrow.



I have spent much time in my life researching history, politics and religion, as well as all this conspiracy stuff.

The conspiracies all make sense in a Christian view, there's nothing mysterious about it. There is a reason why the controlling elites are always involved with secret societies that always are associated with occult pagan rituals.

My faith is not a blind faith, and an open and honest heart will see the truth within the Bible.

Jesus said everybody that disagreed with him was wrong. I agree with him.


..And others that believe differently have not done extensive research ?

I'm well aware of the secret societies. How does that validate the New Testament ? I'm happy you found such strong belonging through a book. As far as I'm concerned, its a book written by man 700 years after Christ died. How accurate can a book be when it was written 700 years after the fact ? Also take into perspective that conquering nations rewrite past history. Also, Genesis got their story from ancient Sumeria. I do believe there is some validity to the Bible but I also believe there is validity in many ancient books.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


If you have problems with the depopulation thread, then take your problems there. If I think it is worth engaging then I will. It is not 2010-2012 yet, so I have not been proven wrong on the depopulation agenda. I stated that this was going to happen based on a mixture of evidence and intuition from looking at ancient history and modern things. I am still expecting depopulation to take effect in a few years. Again, if you want to discuss this, then take it up in the other thread. I will not discuss it here any further.

You admit that the hard problem of consciousness is genuine and thus that neuroscientists cannot find an explanation as to how any physical process can produce the opposite conscious experience. Yet, you insist that I am not allowed to draw the conclusion from that that the mind is non-physical.

I can think of two arguments in response to that:

1. If John is not home, one can infer that John is outside the home.
2. It is the burden of proof of the neuroscientist to prove that consciousness is physical. As all current evidence suggests that it is non-physical. The neuroscientist is going to have to work very hard in trying to prove that, and if the problem does not have a solution, they will be there forever. It would be like somebody trying to fit a square peg into a triangular hole - eventually they will have to give up and accept it is impossible.

I will tell you clearly now: Proving that conscousness is physical is impossible. It is not physical. Move on.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by Jezus
The brain only a piece of hardware that synthesizes the information that comes from the body.

The brain is physical just like the limbs.

The mind is the non-physical observing entity that responds to the message the brain creates.

To think that you are your body is an illusion.


Actually, it takes in information not only from our body, but from the environment as well. The idea that the mind is non-physical is nothing more than belief. How am I to observe without sensation or imagination? Where does sensation and imagination come from? The brain. Their is no observer without the brain. It's really not hard to grasp at.

Sometimes reality is just not as interesting as fantasy. You will die one day. Worms will eat your brains. This is nothing to fear. It's just the inevitable.


Look at the '___' research:

www.rickstrassman.com...

Like I said, The brain is just a computer, when a soul is incarnating it has a genetic palette to create the archetypal mind it needs for spiritual growth.

YOU are imagination, you are the "observer." Just like my computer may be connected to the internet at this moment, it is I who is navigating it.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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Well...if ENERGY cannot be CREATED or DESTROYED, I would have to vote YES, some form of conscious existence must therefore exist after physical death, which would also extend to all living things, al the way from Zeta Reticuli B ('lil grey') "aliens" down to bacteria !



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by Monts
 



Extreme claims require extreme evidence.

Why is it hard to grasp death... just remember what it was like before you were born.


It's pretty selfish and arrogant to think that you and everyone else is immortal and all this stuff, it's the most pretentious thing i've ever heard.


The before birth argument isn't valid. Just remember what it was like when you were 1. you can't, does that mean you didn't exist? I'm sure your parents will beg to differ.



posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by disfugured

Originally posted by Chainmaker

Originally posted by disfugured
reply to post by Chainmaker
 


That might be so from your religious point of view, but to straight up say others are wrong just because you put all your faith in a book written 700 years after Jesus died.. is pretty narrow.



I have spent much time in my life researching history, politics and religion, as well as all this conspiracy stuff.

The conspiracies all make sense in a Christian view, there's nothing mysterious about it. There is a reason why the controlling elites are always involved with secret societies that always are associated with occult pagan rituals.

My faith is not a blind faith, and an open and honest heart will see the truth within the Bible.

Jesus said everybody that disagreed with him was wrong. I agree with him.


..And others that believe differently have not done extensive research ?

I'm well aware of the secret societies. How does that validate the New Testament ? I'm happy you found such strong belonging through a book. As far as I'm concerned, its a book written by man 700 years after Christ died. How accurate can a book be when it was written 700 years after the fact ? Also take into perspective that conquering nations rewrite past history. Also, Genesis got their story from ancient Sumeria. I do believe there is some validity to the Bible but I also believe there is validity in many ancient books.


"These are ever learning, and never coming to the knowledge of what is true."
2 Timothy 3:7

People can research plenty and deny their whole lives the truth in front of them.

The secret societies are all doing pagan rituals because they are worshipping and gaining power from demons. The evil spiritual beings can and do bring wealth and power to those who do their bidding. Jesus talked about the Synagogue of Satan, and we have Albert Pike declaring the root of Freemasonry to be Kaballah, which is Jewish witchcraft. The secret societies are building towards world government, the moves toward world government are obvious to everyone who is paying attention, and we have plenty of prophecies about that. Revelation is coming true all around us.

We of course disagree about when the Bible was written, I am interested to know where you pulled the 700 AD number from. The Sumerian story is a pagan corruption of the Genesis story, but it is quite interesting that there are ancient stories worldwide of powerful demi-gods and of a massive flood, among other things spoken of in Genesis. Only the Bible explains the whole situation from beginning to end.

Your 700 AD date leads me to believe that you think the Catholic Church wrote or compiled a fictional story, so why then did they go on to contradict everything their fictional God told them to do? Jesus never said a word about conquering anything. Why would a conquering religious political organization write a book that contradicts just about everything the organization does? Why didn't they just write a book about pagan gods, including war gods, like every other culture? If they were going to put words in Jesus' mouth, why didn't they just insert a few verses to help their cause? Something like, maybe, if you die a martyr for the Catholic church you get 72 virgins in heaven when you die...

Instead the Catholic Church took a different tact, which was, keep the Bible in Latin and don't let anyone but priests read it! Prosecute anyone who translates it! Label as a heretic and murder anyone who exposes the hypocrisy of the Church or the contradictions of their teachings with their own Bible!



[edit on 23-12-2009 by Chainmaker]



posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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not "my" consciousness but universal consciousness lives on after my death. If you want to call "our" consciousness universal consciousness, then yes, but I do not think the soul carries with it individual consciousness but rather the collective whole. I believe that there is One Supreme Soul, just as there is one reality, and this reality is conscious, and when we die, our mind returns to this. The goal of life is to understand this consciousness and to free ourselves from physical consciousness and realize the bliss of transcendent consciousness.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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consciousness is a part of life so no i dont think there will be anything that is like this world/universe after death.



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 10:21 PM
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I can't say I honestly know whether we are still conscious after death or not. I'm still young and have not had any close family or friends die, so I haven't had the chance to experience any paranormal, after-life things. My dog is slowly getting old, so I feel that she will be the first to pass away. I have a close bond with my dog, so loosing her will be moderately devastating to me (don't judge me, I love my dog!). Perhaps she will be the answer to my spiritual questions - we shall [unfortunately] see.

But I do HOPE there is an afterlife of some kind. I have been having a LOT of trouble finding my way spiritually/religiously, so I'm uncertain. I don't understand how there can be so many different religions and faiths, but so many of them would go as far as to say "if you don't believe in this religion, you will go to hell (or whatever bad place there is)". And some religions would tell me that I am going to hell based on things uncontrollable to me personally...This is VERY discouraging for those of us looking for the answers. Maybe all the religions are similar in some way...or maybe it doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe in something. I dunno...

It makes me very sad to think that we could die and thats it...I don't want that to happen, as selfish as it sounds. Then again, there is something about us that really stands out from the rest of the known universe.

Anyway...that was not completely related to the topic, but I kinda felt I should say it.

Goodluck to those looking for the way!



posted on Jan, 10 2010 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by dalan.
 


What he said..

There are countless reports of NDE's, people meeting dead relatives, hearing otherwordly music etc. The Tibetan Book Of The Dead explains accurately what happens when you die. So do the Egyptian myths.

I firmly believe that there is an extrasensory, spiritual plane behind everything we can see and experience (now). Maybe they cannot be ever explained scientifically, because they're not ours to mess with. Who knows.

I think the most important thing is how you live your life here, 'cause it's going to dictate how's your next plane going to be. Sort of like in the gnostic Christian teachings. I can be hard to digest 'tho.





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