Asteroid Destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, not God

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Nutter

 

I'm sorry to ask you this question but..you seem to have the answer....

How do you distinguish between "gods" and "names"? It seems to me there are many "names" but not so many "gods"...when examining them...they tend to exhibit the same traits over and over and over again....which to me indicates - 'same god, different name'.....

Dogs exhibit many of the same traits when examining them and we actually can examine them over and over again. Which to me indicates different dogs, same animal family, same "general" name as in "god", same general traits. But distinctly individual dogs. If one bit you, I dare say you wouldn't say you were bitten by the "dogs".

""I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me." - Biblical God

This statement, attributed by some to a/the Biblical God, indicates there are other distinct Gods that could be had before Me. There are physical descriptions of some of the "Gods" in the list. They appear to differ in those physical descriptions and much more. We can not examine them like a kennel of dogs only their historical descriptions. You are generalizing A2D. It fits your position but not the historical data. I say data as we don't know if any of this is factual.

Originally posted by EdCase512
reply to post by Nutter

 

That one was/is ? estimated to be 30m to 50m according the information I've read.

The OP mentions 1/2 mile across in his post. I believe I said that would have had to have been some very exotic material to only level the two cities.
Even an airburst from an object of that magnitude would be immensely powerful.

Is it possible a small asteroid destroyed what today would be considered a town or village? “City” is a relative term. For instance New York was considered a city in the 1700’s. If we were to compare the New York of then to today’s New York we would likely consider the earlier version but a cow pasture by comparison. And so a small impact could conceivably in my opinion destroy a Biblical “city”.

There is much to question despite what I consider the real possibility of a smaller event. In my opinion there is ample reason to believe that the story was made to fit the evidence. If you had not previously viewed the “cities” how could you deny they existed? The OT says they did. A ½ mile crater in the minds of anyone seeing it could be thought large enough to have encompassed a city of the day as I explained earlier. That it was no longer “smoldering”, well that is easily explained. The fire went out. If you had not seen the people prior to them being turned into pillars of salt, how could you deny how the pillars came to be? Geologists were not a dime a dozen in ancient Palestine I dare say. Also God having one of His Biblical conferences with one man as we see time and again in the OT, this time it’s Abraham. Very convenient these intimate dialogues, remind me of the “cone of silence” in the old Get Smart series. Anyways, what would Abraham have to gain with a morality lesson to his people? Later in the story we have Lot first offering his daughters for ravaging, what a mensch! And then later the ultimate “I told you so” for his wife. Women were not held in high regard in the Bible and so often the undefended target of God's wrath. Were the daughters and wife deserving of such treatment? You tell me. Biblical women were never prophets, priests or politicians and what does that tell you? Yeah, they were busy honoring their husbands and squeezing out "Children of God".

In my opinion there is much here to be used to keep the tribe in line behind an earthly tyrant and so the reference to a heavenly one is mostly superfluous. Mostly in that everybody wants to be loved and not simply respected and I think Abraham was as human as anyone. And so Abraham put the axe in “God’s” hand. By doing so he remained beloved by his followers a very shrewd political move. Following this Abraham could say: If you don’t follow my lead, your fate is in “God’s hands” and don’t we all remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Likely nobody remembered the actual Sodom and Gommorah, all the inhabitants were killed and wasn't that convenient? "Cities" mind you and everybody was home during the destruction. Well who would ever leave with all the back door sex going on?

What could possibly make me think this? Questioning the Biblical word of God? I present one piece of modern day evidence that I think directly parallels this Biblical tale:

"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before." - White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel

There are many others I could throw in such as using the attack on 9/11 to invade Iraq but I think you get the picture. And so we have a modern day confession from a leading Jewish sage/priest/politician, stating he uses events to persuade and manipulate people. I think this illustrates one aspect of human behavior that has existed and proliferated since pre-Biblical times. Use whatever it takes to get the job done. Why should we think that the Biblical authors (sages/priests/politicians) were above using these same tactics to persuade their readers/constituents to behave in a particular manner? i.e. do not commit perverted acts.

PS There is also the possibility that the "cities" were destroyed and the devient behaviors were attributed later. Who was left to argue?

[edit on 15-12-2009 by Hemisphere]

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by SuperSlovak

 

Who but God has the power to change the course of an asteroid?
Who but God has the power to set it's course?
Who but God created all things and set them in motion?
I have heard stories of no other.

Allah?

Vishnu?

Krishna?

Zeus?

I certainly have heard of others.

Don't forget Shiva.

If anyone can destroy cities it is certainly Shiva.
I mean, whoever's heard of Yahweh the Destroyer?



[edit on 15-12-2009 by tungus]

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
I have a question, if it was an asteroid that destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gamorrah would there not be some sort of crater in that area of the world?
The volcano explination makes sense as there is alot of sulpher in that area, and an volcanic explosion reigning debris down on both cities would do the same thing, yet there would not be a massive crator and it would explain why both cites were buried.

both science and faith in God can both agree and live in harmony together. God created science, which is of course the definition of the creation. God proves science and science proves god.

Now you mention, sdcigarpig something about a crater. Ever hear of the Dead sea?, aka the salt sea? the sea with the lowest point in the earth. This is the location of most of the meteors destruction. However plenty of debris and extra super heated material, which showered onto the remainder of Sodom & Gammorah was enough to turn the the entire nation of Sodom and Gammorah into dust. This was not just 1 city, but a complex nation of large city states similar to some countries as they are today. Salt is a cleanser (this is why Gods faithful followers are called the Salt of the Earth), and the God cleansed the Nation Of Sodom And Gammorah with Salt, brimstone and fire. The landscape of ash structures and unnaturally occuring sulfer if is proof of what happened. However did god cause this turn events purposely? Was this fortold to Lot, By God the destruction to come, allowing him to escape in time with his 2 daughters?
That is for you to find out, keep looking, god will reveal himself to those who look for him, rather then those who hide and try to disprove him.

Those who are obviously blind to the lord are those who state this was a meteor and not god who destroyed the city. Same as well goes for people who choose to believe as the idea the red sea was parted by a random gust of wind allowing gods chosen people to escape across just in time for the persuers (pharoahs army) to all perish being swallowed by the water.

Anyways I have to leave work, I would love to keep on going and going, and I will, but not in this particular post. Questions?

reply to post by KilluminatisRex


Probably best not to bring up Lot and especially his daughters, your holy handbook is quite clear on the act that shows "gods" (alleged) meteor missed the worst two of the "sinners".

Originally posted by EdCase512
Probably best not to bring up Lot and especially his daughters, your holy handbook is quite clear on the act that shows "gods" (alleged) meteor missed the worst two of the "sinners".

Ah yes, the obligatory "God doesn't know what He's doing" remark. A good thing you're here to judge God, what would we do without your superior wisdom? By this kind of assessment, mankind would've been extinct from the blasting of Adam and Eve for their single sin. We're all sinners. All of us. But, by the grace of God He forgives those who seek him. Lot was the favored man, not His daughters. Please re-read with that in mind.

Originally posted by saint4God

Ah yes, the obligatory "God doesn't know what He's doing" remark. A good thing you're here to judge God, what would we do without your superior wisdom? By this kind of assessment, mankind would've been extinct from the blasting of Adam and Eve for their single sin. We're all sinners. All of us. But, by the grace of God He forgives those who seek him. Lot was the favored man, not His daughters. Please re-read with that in mind.

Oh no, far from obligatory. Practically mandatory.
Do tell why would I re-read a novel unless I found it to be well written non-self contradictory and avoided the usage of magic plot devices to drive a weak plot ?

Seriously reread it yourself and ask the most important question man knows after every book.

Why? (this would be the question)

Originally posted by EdCase512
Do tell why would I re-read...

Why? (this would be the question)

Because it seems you've missed some obvious information the first time. This is why we study in school and not merely read once. If it appeared to be "contradictory" or contained "usage of magic plot devices to drive a weak plot" then this indicates it was not clearly understood on the first glance. I'm not one to hand a book over and merely say "the answers are here", rather am willing to answer specific questions should there be difficulty in coagulating the concepts. It is far from a set of easy books, ones I still study myself.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
Asteroids come from space... not from god!

so....space created the asteroid??

then...you're saying "space" is an entity...and it created the asteroid...

but that it's impossible for "God" to exist?


allllrighty then.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by Snarf]

Originally posted by saint4God

Because it seems you've missed some obvious information the first time. This is why we study in school and not merely read once. If it appeared to be "contradictory" or contained "usage of magic plot devices to drive a weak plot" then this indicates it was not clearly understood on the first glance. I'm not one to hand a book over and merely say "the answers are here", rather am willing to answer specific questions should there be difficulty in coagulating the concepts. It is far from a set of easy books, ones I still study myself.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by saint4God]

I'll be brief. The overriding message from your book is

"Editors are not always a good thing. Censorship and exclusion make stories disjointed. Some men love to feel as if they are special/chosen others like to blindly follow."

There is no magic bullet..Believe the world needs saving ?
Then save it.

edit: Smugness is unbecoming no matter your faith and the only thing I require to coagulate is blood (occasionally)

[edit on 19-12-2009 by EdCase512]

Originally posted by EdCase512
I'll be brief. The overriding message from your book is

"Editors are not always a good thing.

Who edited, what information was edited, and how is the information edited different than the information contained. Please be specific and thorough.

Originally posted by EdCase512
Censorship and exclusion make stories disjointed.

What was censored? What was excluded? What disconnects have you observed? Again, specifics and details would be greatly appreciated.

Originally posted by EdCase512
edit: Smugness is unbecoming no matter your faith and the only thing I require to coagulate is blood (occasionally)

This is a shame, because information, data, theory and conceptual coagulation brings to light how the world operates from an objective and factual perspective.

"Main Entry: co·ag·u·late
2 : to gather together or form into a mass or group" - www.merriam-webster.com...

Please do not misinterepret smugness for a challenge. Iron sharpens iron. When you press your point, I do as well with at least equal force.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Who edited, what information was edited, and how is the information edited different than the information contained. Please be specific and thorough.

Mistranslation, differing editions. We'll just use the red sea/reed sea as a prime example. There is not enough room here to document thoroughly.

Originally posted by saint4God
What was censored? What was excluded? What disconnects have you observed? Again, specifics and details would be greatly appreciated.

Reference the Council of Nicaea:
Both of them.

Your religion is based on the texts that men deem worthy and that slotted nicely into THEIR framework.
It falls neatly into the slot of man creates god.

Originally posted by saint4God
This is a shame, because information, data, theory and conceptual coagulation brings to light how the world operates from an objective and factual perspective.

"Main Entry: co·ag·u·late
2 : to gather together or form into a mass or group" - www.merriam-webster.com...

Please do not misinterpret smugness for a challenge. Iron sharpens iron. When you press your point, I do as well with at least equal force.

To refute smugness, you repeat it ?
Interesting take. I never asked for nor needed a definition of the word. I simply informed you of the only usage I require.
Incidentally to pontificate about objectivity and factual perspectives it might be better to leave out the aforementioned book.
I make a point, mine. I do not however feel challenged by yours.
I'm sorry you feel contrawise.

Originally posted by EdCase512
reply to post by KilluminatisRex

 

Probably best not to bring up Lot and especially his daughters, your holy handbook is quite clear on the act that shows "gods" (alleged) meteor missed the worst two of the "sinners".

All 3, Lot and his 2 daughters, were sinners. There is not one man that lived which was without sin.
(except the son of light Jesus) So therefore, being sinners, but also being victims of circumstances (Sodom & Gahmorrah being a a
hateful nation, and one of regularly practiced sexual abominations of which their heart desired, or where compelled to do.
These acts which may have included sex with multiple men or woman of even the same and/or opposite sex,
and or even animals. This being a nation who would shun or kill outsiders because simply of where they were or weren't from,
God regardless had a plan for Lot and his 2 daughters.

God's plan may be often questioned or examined, however regardless, it
shall always be a decision of good, because he is a father of rightousness and life, not the opposite.
Through Lot, and the incestual relations with his daugters, we had recieved the children of the Moabites and the Children of
Ammon (the children of Ammon being a seed of Giants. These 2 Lineages where the majority of people who lived in ancient Canaan,
before the take over of Canaan by the Jews who were directed by God through Moses to do what they did, and the establishment of
Israel as a country. Now you may say, I have furthered your point further, that God Missed the two worst sinner, and allowing the reproduction
of even more sinners of even greater means of sin. These people of the Moabites and the Ammonites greatly muliplied
themselves over the land of Canaan, and made for themselves great empires and City States, in which they orchestrated power
through a series of kings. However even with this great strength and fortification of their homeland, kingdoms,
and boundless resources, their blind sinful life of idolotry and self-gain put them on Gods To do list for a cleansing, and
this is where the idea of Ethnic Cleansing may have originated.

The people of the Seed of Israel, being led by moses out of egypt, were directed to the land of canaan. And even against
overwhelming and 1000 to 1 odds, the people of Israel conquered Canaan and at one point sanctified it in the name of the Lord.
Since then however, Israel has backslidden and Gone greatly down hill, even as far as to follow and mimic the same actions
of the Pagan Settlers they were sent to remove in the first place. This led to Israels destruction and Imprisonment until 1948
when Israel and its Jews were once again officially a nation.

Basically what I am getting at is that even though you may think god to have made a wrong dicision, or maybe even contradictory
to what god stands for, god has an ultimate plan of good and life for every soul, even the misguided.
Trust in the lord and you shall be made whole

Originally posted by EdCase512
Mistranslation, differing editions. We'll just use the red sea/reed sea as a prime example. There is not enough room here to document thoroughly.

What mistranslations and differing editions?

Originally posted by saint4God
Reference the Council of Nicaea:
Both of them.

What about the Council? They did cross-reference material and included books that verified while excluding books that did not. Scientists do the same thing with data. Keep the facts, put aside speculation. The books not included say what that is different than the included books? Are the excluded books unavailable for reading?

Originally posted by saint4God
Your religion is based on the texts that men deem worthy and that slotted nicely into THEIR framework.

On the contrary, what was omitted were the books that appeared to be coming from men (for examples various sermons that were taught).

Originally posted by saint4God
To refute smugness, you repeat it ?

Where have I repeated myself? Assumption of smugness aside, I was trying to clarify the word since it was apparently misunderstood.

Originally posted by saint4God
Interesting take. I never asked for nor needed a definition of the word.

It seemed you did, using the word in reference towards blood instead of concept.

Originally posted by saint4God
I simply informed you of the only usage I require.

I don't understand why you'd want only blood (and not concept) to coagulate...but to each their own.

Originally posted by saint4God
Incidentally to pontificate about objectivity and factual perspectives it might be better to leave out the aforementioned book.

I've yet to see sufficent reason as to why.

Originally posted by saint4God
I make a point, mine. I do not however feel challenged by yours.
I'm sorry you feel contrawise.

It is certainly your right not to respond.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by EdCase512
Mistranslation, differing editions. We'll just use the red sea/reed sea as a prime example. There is not enough room here to document thoroughly.

What mistranslations and differing editions?

King James, New International, American Standard and on and on.
I'm not up on the historical changes and don't care to investigate.
You didn't need anyone to answer this question. You're being coy.

What about the Council? They did cross-reference material and included books that verified while excluding books that did not. Scientists do the same thing with data. Keep the facts, put aside speculation. The books not included say what that is different than the included books? Are the excluded books unavailable for reading?

Stop the games. The "Council" was a kangaroo court at best. Gnostic Gospels and no one knows what the Romans and others were able to eliminate all traces of. Or what the Vatican has in it's "secret stash".

Although I might have read a few issues of "Justice League of America" as a kid, I didn't need to read the "Green Lantern" series to know they were all comic books.

By the way, this is not going to end pretty. EdCase512 asks you straight forward questions and you duck and dodge. We get it, you're a beleiver. The "Book" does the same. It can be made into whatever you want. There's so much double speak and nonsense that you can get green, blue, red any color you want. Every religious fraud in history has used that to their advantage. I for one will choose the route of the Prodigal Son. When I come back home after running out of money for hookers and booze, God will take me back even though I only came back because I ran out of cash and not from repenting. You on the other hand can complain to him for your having been what you think is obedient and then not receiving a homecoming kegger. Shame on you in advance. God loves unrepentent sinners, that parable is proof and far be it from me not to oblige. It's in the "Book"!

Just one serious thought, you and EdC will both go away none the better and neither changed in any significant way from this exchange. You however are both invited to my upcoming kegger.

Originally posted by Hemisphere

Originally posted by saint4God
What mistranslations and differing editions?

King James, New International, American Standard and on and on.
I'm not up on the historical changes and don't care to investigate.

It's well worth investigating, you may discover how little differences exist between them. I'm glad you've mentioned the NIV, because there is one translation that was made from the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek texts. Just one translation...or you could read the original if you like, provided that you know how to read Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek.

Originally posted by Hemisphere
You didn't need anyone to answer this question. You're being coy.

I wanted your thoughts on the matter, and am certainly open to learning new things myself. There are many things I do not know.

Originally posted by Hemisphere
Stop the games.

No games, I take this topic very seriously.

Originally posted by Hemisphere
The "Council" was a kangaroo court at best.

You've made this assessment based upon what?

Originally posted by Hemisphere
Gnostic Gospels and no one knows what the Romans and others were able to eliminate all traces of. Or what the Vatican has in it's "secret stash".

Through the miracle of the internet, the omitted books can be viewed for free. Pre-1990's, we had to pay for them, but they are not gone. If they were an issue, why do they still exist? I'm also interested in hearing about how you know the Vatican has a secret stash. That's an ATS topic in itself.

Originally posted by Hemisphere
EdCase512 asks you straight forward questions and you duck and dodge.

What questions did I miss?

Originally posted by Hemisphere
We get it, you're a beleiver. The "Book" does the same. It can be made into whatever you want.

Not so much, there are things that are clearly says and then there are things that it does not say. If someone says "the Bible says this!" then it is our responsibility to look it up should we not know for certain and read at least the full chapter (if not the whole book). Anything else is hearsay.

Originally posted by Hemisphere
There's so much double speak and nonsense that you can get green, blue, red any color you want.

Surely it's not an easy read like The Justice League (as you'd previously mentioned reading) and surely not as pictorially colourful, however what seems to be confusing at first glance becomes clear after consideration and review.

Originally posted by Hemisphere
When I come back home after running out of money for hookers and booze, God will take me back even though I only came back because I ran out of cash and not from repenting.

Unfortunately it doesn't work this way.

Originally posted by Hemisphere
You on the other hand can complain to him for your having been what you think is obedient and then not receiving a homecoming kegger. Shame on you in advance.

I have no complaints. I've received more than enough reward, let alone eternal life. It would take some understanding of my history to know why.

Originally posted by Hemisphere
God loves unrepentent sinners, that parable is proof and far be it from me not to oblige. It's in the "Book"!

That must be here:

"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed." - Romans 2:5

right?

Originally posted by Hemisphere
Just one serious thought, you and EdC will both go away none the better and neither changed in any significant way from this exchange.

Every exchange can have some kind of value, whether great or small. It is up to the individual to choose to learn and grow or walk away angry and bitter.

Originally posted by Hemisphere
You however are both invited to my upcoming kegger.

Thank you for the kind sentiment, but there's somewhere else I need to be.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


S4G, I have decided to respectfully bow out of this exchange. I butted in and you've said nothing wrong nor have your responses intimidated me. I have rebuttals and we both already know the counter moves. You and I have been around this block before just not together. Too bad the Bible didn't have the artwork of the JLA, it might have caught on. Peace be with you.

reply to post by SuperSlovak


According to the program "Sodom and Gomorrah" which aired on the Discovery Channel today, the theory, in a nutshell, states that a mile long asteroid entering the Earth's atmosphere at a relatively low trajectory passed over the area of Sodom and Gomorrah and eventually exploded above the ground over the Swiss Alps. The resulting explosion caused a plume of rock and ash to fall on the area where Sodom and Gomorrah is believed to have been. Hence no crater. It is also believed to have had an affect on the worlds weather patterns for a few thousand years.

Originally posted by SuperSlovak

And how does the think he puts his hands down to spank humanity (MOTHER NATURE OF COURSE). SMH @ 6 more asteriods +1 currently within the vicinity awaiting?????????


[edit on 2/26/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

reply to post by SuperSlovak


Thank you so much. It sure does look plausible. I do wonder a bit about the size of the asteroid.

Where is Doc Velocity??

T