What is wrong with the ATS membership right now ? !!

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posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 07:32 PM
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+1 for captiva, S&F.

It's not just this forum. I frequent three other similar communities and the very same is unfolding. You have two flavors of skeptics. Those who never put their own theories on the line (they simply come here to ego-stroke) and the shills. Anyone whose bright enough will spot the shill a mile off. Their posting history is far too linear.

My advise to you simple, captiva. If you hang around long enough, you'll lose fate in fellow 'conspiracy theorists' after witnessing enough egocentric, juvenile and petty bickering. The shills will break you down and burn you out. You will become self-defeatist, apathetic and begin convincing yourself that you shouldn't be committing yourself to caring about the world and it's people in the first place.

Don't allow this to happen. The time for reasoning and calm conversation has long since passed. You need to begin networking with people OFFLINE who ALREADY share you view instead of engaging online communities, as you are now, in an attempt to win them over to your outlook.

Ask yourself the following question: Is it more important that I reassure myself by getting others to publicly agree with me or is it more important that I act?

My advise is to frequent ATS less and begin acting. Stop looking for a sign in the sky. You are knee-deep in the fray and all you're doing is talking about it. YOU NEED TO GET OFFLINE! TRUST ME! THE INTERNET AS YOU KNOW IT WILL NOT BE AROUND WHEN THINGS BEGIN TO GET A LITTLE MORE CRITICAL TOWARDS THE END OF NEXT YEAR!

Feel free to PM me. You have my empathy, my brother and friend.




posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 07:34 PM
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I am new to ATS. When I post, I try to keep civil, even though I am a very passionate person. I have noticed, too, since the few months I have been here, that when breaking stories come out, there are a few members that seem to band together, put out a story, and stick to it, no matter the facts. I saw this happen on the Norway Spiral and the latest spiral as well. I posted several video links showing that the spirals were actually more common that we thought, and that there seemed to be a progression in the quality of the spiral. I admitted the chemicals were probably placed there by a rocket or missile, but that the function was one of purpose, not of mistake. This evidence was ignored, outright, and I decided to mark many of them who blantly kept up a party line that it was just missile errors as foes. Why did I do this? Because their behavior was suspicious.

These reasonable people ignored growing evidence of actual sightings going back years of these things being, well, practiced. And I believe that as time goes on, that if these spirals are used for holographic purposes, you will see these ATS threads disappear entirely. You may even see ATS disappear.

I am still civil to the foes who I believe are government agents, or work for them in some capacity. Maybe our good will and common sense will turn them to our side? We can hope.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 07:34 PM
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I agree with you, there are so many debunker than I can count here, It true I only joined here a feww week ago, but the way I look at it, a new member or "secret" member post rarely always post in someplace that was serious and shocking such as norway spiral

The norway spiral cannot be cause by a failed rocket, there was so many failed rocket in decades, how come the norway spiral DO NOT match any of the past rocket failed? The debunker was quick to said it a rocket failed, case cloased and move on

I am begining to worried if there are paid "debunker" agent to keep the truth in the lids

The truth is: there is no truth in government. Like that movie The Bank Job



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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Yes replies consisting of OMG, LOL and alot of
are unnessecary. Quite childish really. If you dissagree with something simply explain why and move on.
I think its got to do with more people coming to the site who are used to the more 'lawless' forums where personal attacks are common place.

I havnt been on the site for too long but ive noticed that alot of people here seem to have the mentality that they are more 'enlightened' then those who are not familiar with the site or 'awake', and those that dissagree with them must be ignorent or unenlightened or 'asleep'.

Really alot of ATS members are just sheep with a different color, in a different herd.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
I highly encourage everyone when they have a little spare time to go to "member tools" > "member list" and read trough some of the history of ATS as it has unfolded through the years by checking on threads from its inception.



Absolutely (and you'll find people being plenty rude to one another in the past too).


I mostly visit ATS when a major "alternative" event happens (the recent Norway spiral has brought me back in). I just don't have time to be active in threads any longer. The reason that ATS is still at least a weekly visit for me is because eventually the BS gets sorted out.

The fact that people are allowed to question the questionable is something you aren't allowed to do on most similar themed websites. If it weren't for skeptics, which I prefer to the term "debunker", this place wouldn't have grown as large as it is today.

The more people that are attracted to something the more likely undesirables are going to be attracted to it too. But in turn, the more you delve into conspiracies/alternative topics the better you're bull$#!@ filter gets. Here's a BIG hint: if someone has to be a snarky jerk to prove their point, they probably don't have a very good point!

I've been on financial message boards where I KNOW the members are adult, educated, professionals yet they act like children towards each other. Completely civil discourse on the internet is virtually impossible without heavy-handedness or a very small user base.

As the OP stated, use the ignore button. It prevents a lot of headaches.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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I think if one makes a extraordinary claim on ATS, it is wise to back it up with extraordinary evidence and or proof to back up the claim. If one feels very strongly on their topic of choice, it is important to prove and argue your threads case.

If somebody claimed there was a poke-a-dotted elephant eating a steak right beside them while levitating in the air, it is important for people to ask for evidence and or proof. That is the point. For the OP to reinforce their ideas.

De-bunkers / skeptics are the people who are trying to sort the trash from the treasure. They are not trying to degrade you and embarrass you. Bombard them with evidence and solid logical ideas to convince them otherwise, or it is just a report of a poke-a-dotted elephant eating steak while levitating right beside the OP with no data to back up the claim.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 07:53 PM
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I go through this same garbage in all the 911 threads. You all think that is bad, you should see some of the ridiculing and down right disgusting insults that some of us Truthers have to put up with against people who I believe are disinformationist or are being paid from outside sources to railroad the truth.

You know when you are exposing the truth, when you all of a sudden see a group of negative disinformationist playing tag team against the truth.
It’s not even about opinions, its about the facts.

Everyone needs to be educated in the art disinformation. So you can spin their garbage right back at them.


25 Tactics for Truth Suppression
tactics used by disinformation agents
stooges for the elite.


benfrank.net...



[edit on 12-12-2009 by impressme]



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 07:54 PM
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Apparently this Member wishes to "Debate" the nature of this post.

I assured him that we shall...




**Mod Edit**

[edit on 12/12/2009 by semperfortis]



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 07:57 PM
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MODS: PLEASE DO NOT DEEM THIS TO BE OFF TOPIC. IT IS IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION POSED IN THE TOPIC. THIS IS NOT AN AD HOMINEN ARGUMENT EITHER. IT IS AN EXAMPLE.

reply to post by DraconianKing
 


If I didn't know any better, I'd call you out as a shill, DraconianKing. My reasoning is crude but I'm happy to impart it:

I'm immediately skeptical of any individual who attempts to defuse the Norway Sprial phenomenom on a conspiracy theory centric community.

Your started this topic and ask:




Should ATS start monitoring members with extremist views? ... should ATS start monitoring and reporting users to the FBI?


Furthermore you add:



If ATS and the MSM don't start clamping down and stop glorifying these terrorists then I am certain that a severe right wing attack will take place.


It really depends on what your definition of terrorist is, buddy. It seems to be a lose definition these days for any form of dissent.

One could also argue that this thread is a red herring to enhance your 'tinfoil hat wearing' 'street cred'. This thread might also be indicative of a shill distracting members of a community with the left/right paradigm. As captiva has pointed out, presidential voting is not and should not be of interest to the true conspiracy theorist for he or she already knows that the illusory democratic process does not belong to them.

Fortunately, for both of us, I do know better so this remains within the confines of the realm of healthy speculative observation.

I like your avatar.


[edit on 12-12-2009 by rexusdiablos]

[edit on 12-12-2009 by rexusdiablos]



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 08:11 PM
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Last time I checked,

it's the internet.

It's serious business .



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by impressme
I go through this same garbage in all the 911 threads. You all think that is bad, you should see some of the ridiculing and down right disgusting insults that some of us Truthers have to put up with against people who I believe are disinformationist or are being paid from outside sources to railroad the truth.

You know when you are exposing the truth, when you all of a sudden see a group of negative disinformationist playing tag team against the truth.
It’s not even about opinions, its about the facts.

Everyone needs to be educated in the art disinformation. So you can spin their garbage right back at them.


25 Tactics for Truth Suppression
tactics used by disinformation agents
stooges for the elite.


benfrank.net...



[edit on 12-12-2009 by impressme]


It's not the truth. It's your opinion. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you are right. Remember that.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by GorehoundLarry
 


A conspiracy theory community that doesn't believe that 911 was a false flag attack is like a vegan who wears leather shoes. Your point is fair though.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by captiva
 


It's because I'm sick to death of these threads.


Instead of coming in here complaining like you often do, just ignore the goddamn thread and move on.

How hard is it...



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by dmorgan
 


I was thinking the same thing. I think more people, as the OP points out, are fed up of the likes of liveforever's attitude.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by GorehoundLarry
 




It's not the truth. It's your opinion. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you are right. Remember that.


It might be my “opinion” however, you are stating your “opinion” remember that.
If it is not true then prove it? I did not say I had proof.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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Both the Federal Government of the US and the terrorist state of Israel (it is possible to be anti-Israel without being anti-semitic: see link below) have openly declared a massive campaign to thwart the effect of the internet on their dis-information campaigns.

ATS is a prime target.
Look for logical fallacies:

1)Argument ad hominen- Argument against the man. This is pervasive among government disinformation agents and individuals who consider themselves professional skeptics. When all else fails, attack the messenger personally.
What I cannot understand is why why so many people fall prey to this fallacy and join in on the personal attacks, which totally derails the topic of the thread.

2)Non-sequiter- It does not follow. This is used to associate two issues which are in no way connected. A good example is... Because trees release co2 they must be cut down. We have a problem with global warming. This is used almost as much as argument ad hominem.

3)Hasty generalization- Pretty self explanatory. A good example of this is "his name is Mohammed. He must be up to something, probably a terrorist."

4)Begging the question or tautology- This is sometimes called circular reasoning. In this fallacy the truth being espoused is considered true because the antecedent describing the truth being espoused is also considered true. A good example is "the bible is the word of god because it says so in the bible, which is the word of god."

Look for these and call people out on them. Here are some links.

This is a link showing that being anti-Israel does not make one anti-semitic.

www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

Here is a link to logical fallacies. KNOW THEM. RECOGNIZE THEM. ATTACK THEM.

www.logicalfallacies.info...

This is the granddaddy of them all. REALLY TAKE YOUR TIME WITH THIS SITE.

www.debunkingskeptics.com...

The truth will forever melt away lies, similar to the effect that heat has on ice. That is the effect that heat has on ice, and not the effect that carbon dioxide has on ice.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by dmorgan
 


To be honest its very hard. They annoy me so much.

Where have all the 'good' threads gone? These seem to be the norm now, its a nasty habit that needs to be stopped.

Ignoring something will not make it go away.

reply to post by rexusdiablos
 


What attitude is that?



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by LiveForever8
 


It was obviously not pointless because you commented on it. If you don't like it move on. You can't tell me you didnt commented on it because you really feel people need to know its pointless. that is your opinion. Im sure your seeking attention, that which you are receiving now. Nonetheless that remark could have been a bit nicer. This is my opinion on you.


Peace!



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by captiva
 


Another one of these threads, how predictable


Can't say I've noticed anything different recently, same old same old, some argue, some discuss etc, etc......

Pointless thread


Way to contribute! Looks like the OP may have been off some. LiveForever8 is just as bad as those joining the last few days. Is there any way to "dock" someone points because they detract from a thread? That would be a great feature on ATS. Call it the LiveForever8 option.



Here is the thread I wrote about hate on ATS. Not much has (or will) change. LF8 is proof to this, sadly.

Hate ATS style

Hope ATS doesn't slide much further down this hill. From what I have been told, ATS used to be about "denying ignornace" not tolerating stupidity. Oh well. The good ole days I guess.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by LiveForever8
 


Not only will it not go away if we ignore it, but they will have a greater chances at sabotaging the truth while we have them on ignore therefore, leavening them to have the last negative post against the truth.





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