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Bunker 101 : Building Your Bunker, Forget the Bug Out Bag, Make A Fortress

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posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 10:29 PM
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I'm glad somebody had the guts to post this thread. I've advocated defending your home position on forums all across the Net, and I get a TON of opposition from the "bug-out" crowd. I mean really vicious opposition, too.

If you think about it, your home has the space for years worth of supplies, foodstuffs, medicines, weaponry and ammo — far more than you could ever carry out into the wilderness.

Don't get me wrong, I'm big into wilderness survival, I'm Red Cross-certified in wilderness first-response emergency care, I've got enough wilderness survival gear in one backpack to comfortably live on for a month, and I have the water-filtration and fire-starting gear to continue living off the land almost indefinitely (although not in "comfort").

In fact, my wife and I are now in our 50s, and we practice extended survival in remote parts of the Smoky Mountains, where we go in, unarmed, and rough it for up to 10 days at a time. As a test of our skills, we even flew out to the Canadian Rockies in British Columbia and did the same thing under positively treacherous and life-threatening conditions for a couple of weeks.

In retrospect, however, I would highly recommend carrying some serious firepower back in the Canadian Rockies. The megafauna out there is something with which you do not want to trifle.

All of this said, and even with the extensive wilderness experience we have gained, I most adamantly recommend staying home and defending your position in the event of SHTF.

I've already stated one reason for my preference — you can store enough equipment and foodstuffs in your home to keep you alive for a couple of years, at least. Also, you're not out there on a mountainside, risking your life on a minute-by-minute basis.

I've often said that most of these "bug-out" people are going to die within a few weeks, once they get out there and realize they are seriously under-equipped and under-experienced to survive in the wilderness. Let 'em get out there and break an ankle or a wrist and see how long they last.

Not long.

Generally speaking, humans are not a bunch of Liver-Eating Johnsons or other mountain legends who can brush off wild animal attacks and serious injuries. More often, when humans are injured in the wilderness, they tend to panic and then die shortly thereafter. For every legendary mountain man out there, there are the skeletons of 10,000 wanna-be mountain men.

I say fortify your home. I say dig a 10-foot-deep bunker in your backyard, wall it in nice and thick with steel-reinforced concrete, cover it up and plant a garden on top of it. Dress your bunker out with water filtration, air filtration, bacterial decomposition pit toilets, and human-powered electrical generating devices.

Make sure you have a hidden weapons cache and lots of ammo — not just firearms, either, but edged weapons, slingshots, compound bow and arrows, and anything else you can think of. Weapons are extremely handy for their designed purposes, but they're also going to be the most valuable things you own, next to food and medicine.

Gold won't have any value in a post-apocalyptic world, but a handgun with a box of cartridges will be worth its weight in platinum. A gun will trade-in for a lot of food or medicine. Just be cautious when you go-a-tradin'...

Two-way communications with rechargeable power-packs should be near the top of your list of survival gear, too. Communication means organization over a large area, and organization equals survival.

— Doc Velocity







[edit on 12/12/2009 by Doc Velocity]




posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 

Exactly and thank you. I'll have a place to come back to should I need to take a walk. May I add that it will be the unprepared that I'll be prepared for, I do think its the best approach.



[edit on 13-12-2009 by HappilyEverAfter]



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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The best way to survive a nuclear war etc, is not to be there when it happens.

Seems obvious, but few consider this.

A plot of land way away from any primary or secondary targets is well worth more than a fortress in some downtown pad near a steel works and major military airfield.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by aristocrat2
A plot of land way away from any primary or secondary targets is well worth more than a fortress in some downtown pad near a steel works and major military airfield.


Face it, if it comes to all-out nuclear war, nobody is getting out of this party alive, I don't care if you live under a mountain in remote Wyoming. The only place you might survive a nuclear war is in Antarctica; but that's not exactly the easiest location to reach for your standard survivalist.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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Just be careful, that when you are building your fortress, you don't inadvertently build your own prison.

Have emergency escapes planned, and always have alternative measures for sit-x.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR
Just be careful, that when you are building your fortress, you don't inadvertently build your own prison. Have emergency escapes planned, and always have alternative measures for sit-x.


Right, I'd start a few tunnels myself, but you don't have to do it Great Escape style, digging underground. Rather, dig open trenches several feet deep, lay in your concrete or galvanized steel culvert (about 30" diameter should work for most people), seal your joints thoroughly, then cover it up and reseed the grass. I intend to run such an "escape tunnel" from my basement out to my backyard bunker (which I've been planning for a couple of years).

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 11:34 PM
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Okay, I have found some magnetic generators. This is what some use in wind turbines. I'm still looking at the specs and trying to figure some stuff out and I'll probably send The Redneck a U2U to see if he is willing to help me out or if anybody else is well versed in electrical engineering could also help me out too.

Now I'm not talking free energy here or anything like that, but I think I have an idea. Now to tie this into the thread this would be very good for charging batteries or running some lights off or something like that. Some down falls is that they are expensive for the size needed to generate useful power.

I would also like to add that bugging out is not a good idea, as other have mentioned. I'm not going to give out all the reasons why, but if you are intuitive you could work out a plan to keep your bunker well hidden and also very useful for a long period of time. Also I would think of placing some "alarm" systems to alert you of people coming within a certain vicinity.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
... this would be very good for charging batteries or running some lights off or something like that. Some down falls is that they are expensive for the size needed to generate useful power.


This is something I pursued myself for a long time — a useful human-powered electrical generator/storage device that was affordable.

Found one.

I bought this thing, the FreePlay Weza a few years ago, and it kicks ass:

The FreePlay Weza



You pedal this thing a few times a day just to keep it topped off — it comes fully charged. It generates enough cold-cranking amps to start a car. Comes with jumper cables, also has pos and neg terminals, as well as a cigarette-lighter-style jack.

Great for recharging small rechargeable battery packs, can run small lamps, radios, and can charge-up your other larger electrical storage devices.

Cool, yes?

PS: I do not work for FreePlay nor for any retailer who sells their products. I'm just giving an unsolicited testimonial. Not trying to sell anything.


— Doc Velocity







[edit on 12/12/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 12:12 AM
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That's pretty cool, now if we could only figure out a way to pump the "treadle" without using human power and then you really have something.

The only downfall is that it is out of my budget, but most useful things are. Also I think this would be a good time to point out that while you are hunkered down you don't really want to be giving off a heat signature or any other sides giving away your location.



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
That's pretty cool, now if we could only figure out a way to pump the "treadle" without using human power and then you really have something.


Well, human-powered generators serve more than the obvious purpose of recharging batteries or running two-way radios. They also give you needed exercise when you're confined in a relatively small bunker for who-knows-how-long.

Gotta stay healthy, and generating power is a good way to do it.

However, I've thought long and hard about the possibility of rigging a windmill or even a water-wheel to the treadle... Problem is concealment. Even a layman knows, when he sees a windmill, that something is being milled; and it wouldn't be long before the curious and those with ill-intentions came to investigate.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


That is correct, but I don't think it would be wise to be hunkered down in a bunker for weeks or months on end barring a nuclear type event. The other problem is also if you end up getting injured.

Personally I would have a bunker to call a home base, when you are just sitting still you are a sitting duck and a sitting duck always gets plucked. Also venturing out allows you advanced warning of anybody coming your way. That is of course if you have the luxury of being able to wander around at night or during the day.



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 01:13 AM
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Now don't go bug-out on me.

I believe there is power in numbers. We need to organize with our neighbors. Yes, I know that's extremely inconvenient and some people will say impossible, but I know they're full of crap.

Anything is possible if you just get off your ass and do it.

I advocate getting with your neighbors, organizing contingency plans, establishing off-the-grid communications with them, and offering them security and protection in exchange for whatever they can offer you.

When TSHTF, you are going to need a few friends and a network of cooperation. No doubt. If you can organize a block of neighbors, you can defend that block. I mean, as citizens, we have the firepower and the intelligence to organize a formidable body of defense against practically any infantry.

Think about that. We're not stupid, we already know or have a glimmering of the technology that an occupying military force might use against us. Knowing what technology the enemy is using gives us an advantage — we can assume they're using infrared, and we have to adjust for it; they'll be using unmanned recon drones, and we'll have to adjust for that, too; they'll use robot patrols, and we'll have to be prepared; they may even employ nano-tech on us, and we've gotta think our way through that, as well.

But it takes an organized group of humans to outwit another group of organized humans...We're dangerous predators, but what makes us all equal is that bucket of brains between our ears. We can outwit other humans, regardless of technology, that much is certain, but it takes organization, and it takes numbers of people in your network.

Organize a local network of defense. Period.

Now, what we can't outwit is Nature. If the apocalypse comes in the form of an asteroid splattering a third of the planet into rubble or Yellowstone blowing sky-high, (which would make a nuclear war look like tiddly winks), then the best we can do is hunker down and pray. Our best preparations may not be enough.

But, I mean, in a real cataclysm, like, say, a 100-mile-wide asteroid strike, you don't even want to think about survival. It aint happening.

The less-horrific doomsday scenarios, such as super-volcano eruptions, we can probably handle, but your neighborhood organization is going to be critical to your survival. There are going to be marauders and bandits and vandals at the gates, no doubt.

Think home defense, but think neighborhood defense, think community defense, and do not count on the "gubbmint" to save your ass.

— Doc Velocity





[edit on 12/13/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 02:14 AM
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I too have always been fascinated with bunkers...maybe it's my love of history and especially military history but ever since I was a kid I'd dream of one day owning some land in the woods and making a big underground bunker with tunnels leading to camouflaged pillboxes lol
I loved building forts when I was a kid and did it through junior high...I still go out and see places and think to myself 'that would make a good fort!'



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Nice subject but a bunker is not all it's cracked up to be. If you are looking to survive some sort of massive attack or natural disaster, they are great... and may I suggest a root celler. Multifunctional, already stocked with foods and tools and supplies, and generally easily accessible from the house.
However, if you're looking for a place to hold hole up against some sort of tactical action from police, military, or rabble, they quickly become a tomb... ie Waco, Ruby Ridge, Seigfreid Line, Maginot Line, etc...look at the history. Mobility is key to survival... hit'em hard and run away, live to fight another day.


Originally posted by semperfortis
The only problem with a "Bunker" is it's static nature.

No getting around that.

Every great castle has eventually fallen and whatever we may build personally, is very subject to attack and being overwhelmed by marauders or just hungry people. Heck, they would do it now, think what would happen in the event of no society and no police.

While I have some property in West Virginia that I would migrate to in the event of some societal collapse, very remote and isolated, I place my faith on myself and what I can carry.

Good thread though

Semper


You know stars to you both mates for your insight into this. If I were in Hurricane Katrina and had a place to ride out the storm in safety, with ample stores, I'd do so in a heartbeat. However if I were in Stalingrad, and had a bunker, I'd be out of the city in an instant. Look at the forces opposing the US military in the wars we are currently facing, the most infuriating aspect of them to us is their anonymous nature. Building a fortified structure, no matter how well done, begs attack as soon as it is found out. Instead mobility, adaptation and creativity will ensure survival.



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 02:36 AM
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i have ALWAYS been fascinated with bunkers
Ever since i was a kid, i wa into dungeoans nad dragons, things like that. WHen me and my frined were 12/13 in backwoods, he mroeso than i, built a 2 level, one story clubhouse out of huge sheets of wood we stole form behind a cinama(they were doing construction, so wede go thier at late night, n run up the street with planks and sheets of wood). it wa amazing what he finsihed building..had a sofa in it, crude windows, and a smal pitt he dug out at the base. shabby but it held up! it wa about the size of a living room for christ sakes inside!
I saw a documentary last year form here, about affrodable bunkers. ONe, was form youtube. They dig up your area, and you purchase a huge piece of metal pipe basically, is what yuode be living in. kind like an oversize tin can, complete with venting tube.
Ive always wanted to make one in our backyard. a friend of mine, taught me about NWO years ago, was in marines, said if you guys eveer get an underground bunker, try n do it as queiitly as possible, dont tell the city n state, regardless of the law. screw the law..cause if the SHTF one day, they will know where yuo are, an might wanan get in, kill you n take over it even, or rat you out to the bad guys..always keep thigns like this a self secret* if thiers ways too... just tell the city yuor working on a water main, bahtroom pipe froze n broke or something...come up wth a feesable lie at least, in order to get the permitts...or even better if yuo got a huge bakyard, froget the permitt* dig n build the damn thing.
naturally having an underground bunker would require fresh air to come in, even bettter if it fitlers out radioative particles...and runing water. thats MAJOR money for those systems!!!



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 02:37 AM
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Okay SKL, another excellent thread for the information age. I.E. absolutely needed information age.

Several here have touched base on it. Escape and alternate places to bug out in case of necessity.

Never have your back against the wall.

Have a minimum of one escape route. Usually two is better but one is enough in a pinch. This includes building designs for everyday use, so why not in your bunker.

Scout out alternate bug out locations, have these locations as your rallying positions. Make sure everyone in your family knows of them in case of separation. Depending on where you are, their are numerous places that can be used as defensible, safe bug out spots. In my area, I have scouted abandoned farms among other locations. Hell, even old abandoned vehicles can be used as shelter from the elements for short periods.

Okay, went down the paranoid trail their a little bit.

Be safe and for God's sake, be free.



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 02:40 AM
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Would also be wise, form what ive learned to have an emerency exit, not just an entrance, incase of immediate emergency and you dont wanna be exposed fro whatever the reason, the enemy is outside and watching, water has flooded and starting to fill yuor bunker, yuo need to relcoate asap..dig a hole, supoprted by 2/4's a mile or 2 long, to an exit that leadds to a secluded place as possible..thats another good idea i think* and for a door, simialr principale as what submarines or tanks would have, those door latches* you open the lid, by turning wheel on bottom inside, but no one out can get in, no matter how they turn form the outside, its automatically locked form the inside, with big steel arms lcoking the door in place, jsut like a door bolt only much more massive in size



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 08:17 AM
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Reading this thread is a bit like a time warp ... back in the 60's everybody was building fallout shelters. Probably a few of those still around in peoples backyards. Not to mention the plans for them.
Technology has come a long way since then, I expect we can do a lot better with air and power systems.
Personally I don't plan either a bug-out or a hunker down. Whats comes will come and I will face it head up.
(not to say I don't have a bit of food stock and defensive weapons
)

Good thread tho, lots of food for thought.



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
Oh dear, alright now for a slight interjection of realism while you guys are building your backyard forts:

There is no such thing as an "impenetrable fortress" not Troy, not The Great Wall Of China, not The Atlantic Wall or Vladivostok. A lot of the technologies you are looking at, the earthen bunkers with great concealment and ventilation are World War 2 technologies at best, trust me we've thought long and hard since then about how to defeat such things. The novel approaches you are looking at are also easily defeated. Against thermal weapons ice is water, and any concrete can still just be blown up with heavy weapons or shaped charges.


Well, not that I am trying to re-build Troy, I am not, but it only fell due to the superstitious and easily beguiled Trojans, in an era when mysticism was rampant as worshiping the Sun as a "god".

Ignorant fools they were, who let their own defeat in through the front door, because of their own vanity, ignorance, and self-delusions of grandeur.

The saying of "Beware Greeks Bearing Gifts comes from that day when Troy fell.

The Truth of Troy - BBC Documentary 1/5


The Truth of Troy - BBC Documentary 2/5


The Truth of Troy - BBC Documentary 3/5


The Truth of Troy - BBC Documentary 4/5


The Truth of Troy - BBC Documentary 5/5


As far as F.L.I.R., Forward Looking Infrared., that is easily enough defeated through cooling down a bunker with liquids running through piping as well as being underground.

The secret would not to overdo the cooling, to make the cooling temperature to sync up with the surrounding temperatures of wherever you locate the bunker. Using this to mask your body temperature, and as well if the need to go outside were great enough you would need to construct a suit of neoprene (scuba diving) with a liquid-filled layer hooked up to a constant circulate/re-circulate system with a refrigerant system.


Quote from : Wikipedia : F.L.I.R.

Forward looking infrared (FLIR) is an imaging technology that senses infrared radiation.

Since FLIRs use detection of thermal energy to create the "picture" assembled for the video output, they can be used to help pilots and drivers steer their vehicles at night, and in fog, or detect warm objects against a cold background when it is completely dark (such as a cloudy, moonless night).

The wavelength of infrared that FLIRs detects differs significantly from that of Night vision, which operates in the visible light and near infrared ranges (0.4 to 1.0 micrometres).


If I decide to build a bunker, I am not going to be stupid enough to tell anyone, nor would it be something that is lightly built, it would be placed a half-mile deep, or further, and would be spread out to where it has ten different tunnel entrance/exit points.

FLIR Technology Description


FLIR-Hunting


FLIR Infrared Cameras for Building & Insulation Inspections


Energy Audit Using FLIR on Today's Homeowner



Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
In today's wars however there is still great use for hardened positions and we've largely gone back to the oldest defensive position of all: caves. I just do not think you should assume that you, or anyone else for that matter, can stay holed up in some backyard bunker in America for long, especially if someone is looking for you. I think honestly all the talk of fortifications is just inviting another Waco-type event.


Yes, I see your point of inviting a Waco-style event, and I concur to some degree.

The problem is with the Government, under any Administration, pushes past our Constitution, and demands we do certain things under the guise of protection when it is a clear-cut violation of our laws, as well as the civility of mankind and approaches human rights violations we must be able to defend ourselves.

So, instead of tearing down the bunkers, why not recommend improvements to make them stronger, more efficient, and more defendable?

[edit on 13-12-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by PSUSA

I'm surprised no one mentioned cargo containers
... Maybe someone did. I put a lot of this threads contributors on ignore.



I've seen long term shelters constructed with these. It's well outside of a city, with everything twenty feet underground. There are two entrances which have two 90 degree turns in them before entering into the center. The cargo containers were all sealed to prevent rusting and water seepage, and were arranged in a asterisk pattern with the middle being the only part of the facility that is made of concrete. It took $30,000 to build and stock everything inside, but it's a bunker. The vents are very well concealed, and the entrances look like they are something else entirely. There's one whole container down there full of everything needed to setup HAM radio operations in HF frequencies, a complete 8000 Watt solar array ready to put together and link up, and enough supplies to handle pretty much everything you could think of.

Obviously, this particular example is above the scope of myself, and many in this forum, but it's an example of steps people are taking to put the odds in their favor that they'll survive when TSHTF.

If I were to come into some money, these are the people I'd contact to set mine up (the cadillac version) Utah Shelter Systems

Best wishes all.





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