What makes people think 'Aliens' travelled from lightyears away?

reply to post by 13arrows


Many people, physics professors included, make the mistake of thinking that travel to a distant location at near light speed would take the distance in light years divided by the speed for the occupants.

Relativistic effects coupled with the expansion of space mean that journey times are considerably shorter with respect to the crafts occupants. The latest calculations show we could reach the edge of the visible universe (Redshift of 1.7) without any exotic 'warp' drives well within a human lifetime whilst remaining below the speed of light with an acceleration of only 1g.

A craft that can negate the effects of intertia and accelerate to near light speed very quickly could pretty much go where it wants in the universe so long as the occupants don't need to return home. Time will have passed at the same rate as distance / speed there.

Our planet could be found easily just as we are finding planets now. A better system could survey the sky and find planets in the Goldilocks zone with water as targets to investigate before setting off on a journey of no return.

Why do they come here?

My guess is to help us evolve;

Or to make a documentary

Or to shoot some video footage of whats happening on earth for the "Intergalactic News"

I could imagine theres a show on their planet;
then before going to commercial they would show some footage of an earthling standing there looking up at one of their ufos and pause it and ask
"what would dj do if he saw a ufo?
A: try to make contact?
B:Get scared and run away
C: record a video;
Answer after this commercial break

Ok we're back; What would this earthling Dj do if he saw a ufo?
the answer is A: try to make contact;
then they would probably resume the paused video showing me waving my arms around in the air and screaming HEYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Have you ever thought about uploading the video of her story? I would be fascinated to hear more of her experience. I think people need to pay more attention to occurrences like this. If you have reservations, I can understand. I'm not sure I would want to subject my mother to the kind of ridicule that this subject attracts.

Originally posted by LightFantastic
reply to post by 13arrows

 

Relativistic effects coupled with the expansion of space mean that journey times are considerably shorter with respect to the crafts occupants. The latest calculations show we could reach the edge of the visible universe (Redshift of 1.7) without any exotic 'warp' drives well within a human lifetime whilst remaining below the speed of light with an acceleration of only 1g.

If you don't mind me asking, would you site the source of these calculations? I'm not doubting them, but this is a new theory to me and I would like to read up on it!

reply to post by Dave.Las.Vegas.Promotions


There is a thread here....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But like I said, this was one of the things she reserved talking about too much in the videos. She does talk about going below the sphinx in them though, just doesnt mention what she saw about the star charts in the books nor the crafts.

She had 9 hours of visions that she would relay to my father and I as we sat by her bedside. There are still things she has yet to even share with me that she saw...she was told there are some things she couldn't tell me.

She has shared alot about what was below the sphinx though since that thread was posted. She saw a water way there, she saw large 3d mechanical objects and said some were still working.

We tell people that we dont clai it as a truth...but of course the experiene was a truth to her. So take what resonates with ya...

All my best
LV

PS....mother had never even heard of Edgar Cayce before her experience, she was and is a Christan who would of never even had interests about someone talking about such things. Now...I think she tends to give a more open mind.

And about the ridicule that could come from such things...well mother and I were exploring our spiritual path together at the time, we dedicated our lives to God and the idea that we offered our physical lives to be used to share things with others. So in a way, we were already prepared to share things. If one is living a life to not find glorification from others, then the ridicule doesnt matter

[edit on 12-12-2009 by LeoVirgo]

reply to post by Dave.Las.Vegas.Promotions


No problem, I should have placed links in my post above.

New Scientist

This gives links to the Physical Review archive if you have access and arXiv.org.


[edit on 12/12/2009 by LightFantastic]

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by Brainiac

 

It's easy to compare our technology and understanding of reality with that of a highly advanced civilization...but it's totally illogical, and a frivolous way of thinking ...

I disagree with this. The laws of physics are not wrong. They may be incomplete, but the laws as we understand them have been experimentally verified. When new theories are devised, they do not usually result in the total abandonment of old ideas, but really refine those ideas, or generalize them. New theories will have to incorporate and explain old data. Therefore we won't be seeing any new theories which abandon such foundations as thermodynamics or relativity.

That said, there is nothing physically preventing anyone from sending a spacecraft between star systems, except that it will require a huge investment in resources, time especially.

Originally posted by Dave.Las.Vegas.Promotions

Originally posted by LightFantastic
reply to post by 13arrows

 

Relativistic effects coupled with the expansion of space mean that journey times are considerably shorter with respect to the crafts occupants. The latest calculations show we could reach the edge of the visible universe (Redshift of 1.7) without any exotic 'warp' drives well within a human lifetime whilst remaining below the speed of light with an acceleration of only 1g.

If you don't mind me asking, would you site the source of these calculations? I'm not doubting them, but this is a new theory to me and I would like to read up on it!

Taking advantage of relativity to cross vast distances within a human life span is only hypothetically possible. To do it with any conventional propulsion system would be impossible because, with spacecraft, you reach a certain point where adding additional fuel actually results in a reduction in delta V. Delta V can be thought of as a spacecraft's total ability to change velocity. There are some ideas for advanced propulsion systems which rely on gathering fuel as they go, instead of carrying it with them, so as to avoid this red queen's race, but there are serious technical problems which might keep these hypothetical propulsion systems within the realm of fiction.



[edit on 12-12-2009 by Tearman]

double post. How can I delete this?

[edit on 12-12-2009 by Tearman]

[edit on 12-12-2009 by Tearman]

Because they can.

Although I'm not very into comparing humans to aliens, since its possible they are completely different from us, I do like to think that in some ways, they may be a enhancement of our characteristics.

Around 1500 we sent ships full of supplies and men to unknown territory. They were out for months, years and even decades in some cases, before anyone knew anything about them. In those days, an ocean would look like as huge to them as the Universe looks huge to us.

Now, we can go around the globe in one day, and with some of our aircrafts, in a matter of a few hours.

Furthermore, they thought that the world was flat, that the oceans would end abruptly and that they would fall to hell. This is what they thought at the time, and look how wrong they were, yet, they WERE the masters of science at the time.

It's a bit arrogant to underrate what those guys accomplished just because we think that now we know a lot about science.

Maybe we are just using sails in the galactic ocean and we will learn amazing things about it and maybe make a "steam ship" that will allow us to explore space.

Remember Cape of Good Hope and how it seemed impossible to travel through and how the legend of Adamastor kept ringing on the captains head?

Well, now we have cruise ships passing through like they are on butter.

Like there are signs that ancient civilizations knew a lot about our planet way before 1500, it's possible that there are out there civilizations far more experienced in space travel than what we are now.

[edit on 12/12/09 by Tifozi]

Originally posted by Tifozi
Because they can.
Around 1500 we sent ships full of supplies and men to unknown territory. They were out for months, years and even decades in some cases, before anyone knew anything about them. In those days, an ocean would look like as huge to them as the Universe looks huge to us.

But the scales involved are vastly different. ~3 months to cross atlantic... vs... 74,000 years to reach the nearest star other than sol.

Furthermore, they thought that the world was flat

seafarers have known that the earth was round for more than a thousand years.

reply to post by Tearman

The laws of physics are not wrong.

I never said they were wrong...your missing my entire point...

You can't break the laws of physics, but you can bend and dismantle them

Think about that carefully...I'm stating that Aliens could have technology so advanced they create their own wormholes...or create highly quantized craft capable of breaking light speed...or both...or maybe they just encapsulate their craft in a bubble of warped space in which the laws of physics are altered...who knows really...

Just because the Earth is round doesn't mean we can't try to change it's shape...

[edit on 12/12/09 by CHA0S]

reply to post by CHA0S
Okay, maybe I did. It is too true that we cannot anticipate the capabilities of a truly advanced technological civilization, nevertheless we can imagine what sort of upper-limits nature imposes upon what is possible through technological solutions (thermodynamics, relativity, for example).


I haven't heard about this quantized craft thing. Can you tell me what that's about?


[edit on 12-12-2009 by Tearman]

reply to post by Tearman

But the scales involved are vastly different. ~3 months to cross atlantic... vs... 74,000 years to reach the nearest star other than sol.

The keyword is scale. Don't mix things.

An ocean was as vast to them as the Universe is vast to us. They thought the same things about the ocean that we think about the Universe now.

seafarers have known that the earth was round for more than a thousand years.

Some, not all.

Many mistakes were made because they didn't considered Earth to be flat.

reply to post by Tearman


Oh I don't doubt our current primitive propulsion systems aren't capable of achieving this but I don't regard relativity as merely hypothetical. The effects of relativity at near light speed are well tested.

As Chaos mentioned, we shouldn't judge what is possible technically from our current technological capability. If physics allows it then we can achieve it.

Saying it would take 74,000 years to reach the second nearest star is akin to someone from 1800 judging the journey time to the moon to be impossible as it would take 12,000 years with the fastest mode of transport at that time.



[edit on 12/12/2009 by LightFantastic]

Originally posted by Tifozi
reply to post by Tearman

 

But the scales involved are vastly different. ~3 months to cross atlantic... vs... 74,000 years to reach the nearest star other than sol.

An ocean was as vast to them as the Universe is vast to us. They thought the same things about the ocean that we think about the Universe now.

I don't know about this. They knew they could cross the ocean. The resources needed to do so were at their disposal. There was significant risk involved in the undertaking, but all the essentials were understood. The same could not be said about humanity today. We don't know that it would be possible to achieve interstellar travel with any resources at our disposal.

If physics allows it then we can achieve it.

Then the question is, does physics allow it? Is there any propulsion system which could accelerate a spacecraft to near lightspeed, and which could also be built in reality? Maybe, but there is no certainty that it is actually achievable.



[edit on 12-12-2009 by Tearman]

Distance is only a problem from a classical physics point of view. It is not a problem in Quantum mechanics. In classical physics there are definite speed limits in the universe such as the speed of light. If you travel faster than the speed of light you will start to go back in time and as you approach the speed of light mass becomes infinite. In other words in classical physics it is impossible. That is not to say that aliens coming here from vast distances is impossible, it is definitely possible, only that it would require a lot of commitment, determination and time on their part.

In Quantum mechanics there are no such speed limits, two objects could interact with each other instantly separated by vast distances. If one could find a way of utilising non-physical channels, they could theoretically transmit objects through them. Hence distance is no longer an obstacles and it does not matter if you are 4 light years away or a million billion light years. In other words, even in our own laws of physics, such means of travel are not impossible.

I always find it odd when we generalise our knowledge of physics to an advanced alien race. It sounds idiotic

were probably jsut one of those last stop for 100 light year refilling stations.
h3 on moon, why not swing by earth on teh way by kinda deal.
or they are jsut checking the progress on their genetic expirements.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
In Quantum mechanics there are no such speed limits, two objects could interact with each other instantly separated by vast distances. If one could find a way of utilising non-physical channels, they could theoretically transmit objects through them. Hence distance is no longer an obstacles and it does not matter if you are 4 light years away or a million billion light years. In other words, even in our own laws of physics, such means of travel are not impossible....

In agreement with the No Communication Theorem, spooky action at a distance has not been observed to allow classical information to travel faster than light or backward through time. Tachyons, warp drive, and wormholes are still potential possibilities for faster than light travel (they haven't been completely ruled out).

reply to post by 13arrows

There is a LOT of data on the internet about this. You have to pick around for it. It takes a while to get a feeling for what could be possible outside of the stories we get from the accepted authorities. And after that, it basically depends on what you are willing to consider might be possible.

Long-distance travel: Try looking up "wormhole." There is at least one serious scientist teaching a brand of physics that makes it possible to "travel" vast distances by getting around normal time limitations.

Around the corner? There are several insiders and contactees who maintain that ETs have bases on Earth, Mars, the Moon (maybe) and in large mother ships in near space.

Their interest in earth? There are many stories, mostly from the same sources, about ET involvement in the long-term history of life on earth. This also seems to be what the stories in the Sumerian clay tablets are telling us. The belief is so widespread in ancient lore that it is difficult to simply dismiss. For me it is a total certainty. But then, I believe we are all immortal beings and thus we were all involved in at least one, if not many, space-traveling societies in our own distant pasts. These societies, so the stories go, saw earth as a place they could send undesirables to get rid of them. Other stories maintain that earth has always been seen as a place that could be colonized, and that it has been colonized by ET societies several times in the past. It is also rich in biological resources, and this has also been noted as a possible factor in the current intervention.

Officials not talking? At this point it would actually be a falsehood to maintain that these matters have not been mentioned by anyone in an official capacity. But it is quite true that this whole subject is being played down and marginalized by those who control the major communication lines of the planet. What their motives are has a lot to do with what ATS is all about.