Secret's of the King's Chamber; Hawass' Revelation

Originally posted by serbsta
...Of the Great Pyramid.

In other words, he still doesn't know if this is the burial place of Khufu, i.e. if the Great Pyramid is a tomb at all.

This is baffling.

After all, orthodox Egyptology states that the Pyramids of Giza are "tombs and tombs only", with the King's chamber being called the "King's" chamber for a reason, it is believed to have been the resting place of Khufu, a pharaoh of the Fourth Dynasty, whose mummy was never found.

Before we get to any speculations about the purpose of the mysterious shafts and what lies behind their yet unexplored (as far as we have been made aware) shafts I want to focus on the "King's" chamber itself and the ever so mysterious 'sarcophagus' that lies embedded into it's very core.

What is the purpose of the Kings chamber and its almost haunting attempt at a sarcophagus? What becomes of this mystery when NO tomb/mummy of Khufu is found (which i believe it won't be) behind the unexplored areas?

Is it possible that we will be left with a monument which serves no purpose?

Or one that has long been forgotten, before any pharaoh walked those sands.

I would tend to believe your last line, more than anything spewed by that serpent Hawass. Speaks from boths sides of his mouth. Yes, you may say I am not one of his fans.

So the King's Chamber eh! What about a Map Room?

The ancient Egyptians called it the "Pillar of Enoch". Enoch's "fingerprint's" are all over it. Did you ever wonder why Enoch lived 365 years? The same number of days in our solar year. More precisely if you go to the Apocryphal book of Enoch, he lived 365 years 88 days and 9 hours. Or 365.242 years. You see, God had it planned that way. He made Enoch live the exact length of our solar year and then he took him. But Where? Normally you could express someone's life from birth to death with a straight line. But with Enoch you can't. His line would be a circle and if you take 365.242 years and reduced them to sacred inches you get the Enoch circle. This same circle can be measured in the Anti-chamber within the King's chamber complex. It is a "Map" room that gives you the key to interpreting the whole message in the Pyramid. One inch equals one year, as in Enoch's life.

Maybe it was just this. It makes more sense than fabricating fictious accounts of how nominded individuals built the most precise structure ever found on this planet.

And here is a viable option for what we generally refer to as the Coffin. What if it was to hold something, instead of someone?

The Coffer in the King's chamber has the same volume inside as the Ark of the Covenant.

I was surprised at this, but maybe I shouldn't have been. Both the Great Pyramid and the Ark of the Covenant where built using the SAME UNIT OF MEASURE. The Pyramid Inch.

So I hope this offered some things to consider, which unlike the serpent Haw Ass, (oh no, my freudian problem arises again) Hawass and his simpleton approach he consistantly takes to make Egypt much less than it once was.

As an aside and while I was there, I thought I would throw in some "Earth Study" figures associated within the Great Pyramid for some fun.

1) The suns distance from the earth. Built into the Pyramid's base plans is a figure estimating it at 92,000,000 miles.

2) The mean density of the earth. Most current tests have it at 5.672 times the weight of water at 68 degrees Fahrenheit. The pyramid places it at 5.7.

3) The weight of the earth at approximately 5,300,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons and the weight of the pyramid at 5,300,000 tons are proportionally related to each other.

4) The volume of the earth's crust above mean sea level is approximated at 455 feet, close to the 454 1/2 ft. that the builders left it unfinished.

5) The mean ocean level of the earth. Using geometry and the figure 3,652.42, proportionally related to the solar year and the base circuit of the pyramid, gives a result slightly over 193 ft. 7 in., our approximations now place the mean ocean level at 193 ft. 7 in.:

6) The mean temperature of the earth. It is about 68 degrees F. In the pyramid this temperature is maintained permanently and unvaryingly, in the inner chambers, by the air channels

7) Rotundity of the earth. The curvature of the earth. The sides of the core masonry recede 35.76 inches on each side in the center. (see diagram) A curved line was produced by this and by computing the radius that it would take to make it s circle, the same radius is approximately half the diameter of the earth

8) The universal mathematical symbol of Pi. It is related to the height verses the circumference of the Pyramid . The Great Pyramid is a representation of the northern hemisphere in pyramidal form. An amazing feat by these early Egyptians, since it is considered current knowledge.

Just food for thought

The following is a very good review of this subject. Yes it is alot at once, but that's the gestalt. It's all relative.

www.prepare-ye-the-way.com...

This Study of the Pyramid, covers many, many, many more details which seem to confirm onething.

KUFU had NOTHING to do with this Pyramid, nor did anyother Pharoh.

Isaiah had something to note on the subject and with this I close.

19:19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.
19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

This is in regards to the Great Pyramid Specifically. An altar to the LORD.

The balance of the text is also interesting, since it is the conclusion of an Oracle for Egypt.

"In that day" is speaking of today.

19:21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it.
19:22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.
19:23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:

Egypt will perform the sacrifice?

For those who thought GOD was just the GOD of Israel.

19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

I wonder what that really means???? Blessed be Egypt my People

www.jesus-is-lord.com...

Well, I hope this offered somethings to consider.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to all.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Shane

The Coffer in the King's chamber has the same volume inside as the Ark of the Covenant.

This is false.

The Ark W=27.0, H=27.0, L= 45.0, V=32,805
Coffer (inner) W=26.8, H=34.4 , L=78.1 V=72,002
Coffer (outer) W=38.5, H=41.3 , L=89.6 , V=142,468

Obviously the dimensions differ, a lot.

Originally posted by Shane

3) The weight of the earth at approximately 5,300,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons and the weight of the pyramid at 5,300,000 tons are proportionally related to each other.

I can only be bothered to double check this one, but this is also false. The Great Pyramid is estimated to weigh in between 6,000,000 - 6,500,000 tons.


[edit on 25/12/2009 by serbsta]

Sorry if any of this has already been mentioned, but I got so antsy I just had to start writing this post.

First off, as to the whereabouts of the Emerald Tablets(or perhaps the copies entrusted to south america?), here is some food for thought:
The Quest for the Metal Library

A system of tunnels and caves beneath Ecuador and Peru is reputed to hold an ancient treasure-house of artefacts including two libraries, one containing inscribed metal books and the other storing tablets of crystal.

H.P. Blavatsky always has something interesting to say about ATS topics here(she even puts quotations around 'kings chamber', so you aren't alone Serbsta):

The "King's Chamber" in Cheops' Pyramid is thus an Egyptian "Holy of Holies." On the days of the Mysteries of Initiation, the candidate, representing the solar god, had to descend into the Sarcophagus, and represent the energizing ray, entering into the fecund womb of Nature. Emerging from it on the following morning, he typified the resurrection of life after the change called Death. In the great MYSTERIES his figurative death lasted two days, when with the Sun he arose on third morning, after a last night of the most cruel trials. While the postulant represented the Sun — the all-vivifying Orb that "resurrects" every morning but to impart life to all — the Sarcophagus was symbolic of the female principle. This, in Egypt; its form and shape changed with every country, provided it remained a vessel, a symbolic navis or boat-shaped vehicle, and a container, symbolically, of germs or the germ of life. In India, it is the "golden" Cow through which the candidate for Brahminism has to pass if he desires to be a Brahmin, and to become DWIJA ("reborn a second time"). The crescent-form Argha of the Greeks was the type of the Queen of Heaven — Diana, or the Moon. She was the great Mother of all Existences, as the Sun was the Father.

And an interesting article I just came across googling:

Some writers have suggested that the King’s Chamber was designed to resonate to the voices of the priests. In this manner, the body of the king, entombed in the sarcophagus, could have been stimulated by sound. Or, more controversially, a living person, lying therein, could have been induced to an altered state of consciousness. Against these theories, however, the chamber’s prime resonant frequency, probably 30 Hertz or less, is far too low to have been vocalised by the priests, while the 1200 tons of granite in the tower-like superstructure suggest the presence of a more powerful sound source.

For this reason, I believe that the Egyptians were attempting to harness

the vibrations of the Earth itself.

here

And this article has some smart sounding stuff in it:

The hypothesis is that the pyramid of Giza is a power generator, directing microwave energy out of its southern ventilating shaft (actually, wave guide). In essence, the great size of the pyramid of Giza as well as the remarkable precision in its construction, being in size a scale model of the northern hemisphere of the earth itself5, allows a coupling effect between the pyramid and the earth. The pyramid of Giza becomes a coupled oscillator and resonates, in harmony, with certain of the earth's vibrations. This pyramid vibration energy is translated, through Helmotz resonators resident in the grand gallery, into a certain sonic tone. That is, the Helmholtz resonators resident in the grand gallery, in multiple stages, step the pyramid vibration harmonic up to a sonic tone which, after being purified in the antechamber (in reality, an acoustic filter), enters the Kings chamber and causes the Kings chamber and overhanging granite slabs to resonate at a particular frequency. This resonance of the Kings chamber and, apparently, of thousands of tons of granite rock resident on top of the Kings chamber cause the quartz crystals in the igneous granite rock composing the walls of the Kings chamber to compress and decompress at this fundamental harmonic. These hundreds of tons of microscopic quartz particles, that is, the high percentage of those particles whose surfaces are parallel on the upper and lower sides of the Kings Chamber, create an electromagnetic field, due to the piezoelectric effect, at the frequency of vibration

here

Helmholtz resonance is the phenomenon of air resonance in a cavity. The name comes from a device created in the 1850s by Hermann von Helmholtz to show the height of the various tones. An example of Helmholtz resonance is the sound created when one blows across the top of an empty bottle.

wiki

Piezoelectricity is the ability of some materials (notably crystals and certain ceramics, including bone) to generate an electric field or electric potential[1]

wiki

And an abstract in a PDFhere states:

Music technology is being advanced in many ways; these include measuring acoustic resonant patterns within environments and implementing biofeedback methods through specifically designed electro-acoustic music. The question must be asked what effect does specifically designed environments have on given biological subjects. Computers are advancing rapidly in the 21st Century, but what researchers are finding is that the ancient Egyptians and Mayans may have had advanced knowledge of acoustics and biofeedback through certain 'hardware' stone devices "geo-
physical computers" where the input and output results in access of key 'states' of entrainment.

I might post more, but I am still sifting through all this, as I've just stumbled upon it all myself. I need a bit to digest and regroup ha. I will be trying to find out more about 'harmonic coupling', because I have no idea what it is and wikipedia says nothing(except computer 'coupling'). So off to read some physics papers *sigh*...

Awesome thread.



edit to add: sorry for the dense material in the post. and also to add if anyone is interested in googling harmonic coupling

[edit on 25-12-2009 by beebs]

[edit on 25-12-2009 by beebs]

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by Shane

The Coffer in the King's chamber has the same volume inside as the Ark of the Covenant.

This is false.

The Ark W=27.0, H=27.0, L= 45.0, V=32,805
Coffer (inner) W=26.8, H=34.4 , L=78.1 V=72,002
Coffer (outer) W=38.5, H=41.3 , L=89.6 , V=142,468

Obviously the dimensions differ, a lot.

Re-reading the above, I may have not taken this in the same manner you had my friend. Obviously you are suggesting both Volumes Internally, one of the coffer, and one of the Ark, but I was more incline to take it as the Volume of the coffer would equal the Arks. Remember, two staves are also inclusive and there for part of the Ark. These staves could be, as I expect short enough to have been placed within the Coffer, while still being affixed to the ark through the Rings. There is no exact record of the Lengths of the Staves, but wouldn't 15 Inches or so on either end be enough? That would make the Staves some 75 or so inches.

You notations are acturate, and I do see how you could have viewed this.

I trust you do also understand what I thought the meaning of the "Quote" was.

Perspective is just that.

As for the weight of the Great Pyramid, I truthfully guess that is a matter of some contention, since no one seemingly knows exactly how many blocks and how much each actually wieghts. Doing a quick Google search, I found figures from 4,500,000 to 7,000,000 Tonnes in just the first 2 pages of results. I stopped after that. I'll grant you one thing, you are in the average range at 6,000,000, although again, no one knows for certain it seems.

Then again, maybe Enoch does.

Thanks for your reply and offering your concerns about the figures and such.

Ciao

Shane

Because I am sure it is available in the British Library, or the Library of Congress, to mention just two of the libraries in cities where currently I am NOT.

(nudge nudge, wink wink... anyone?)

All right, the nudge and wink didn't work.
So let me put it this way:

Is there anyone here who is currently in London, Washington, New York, Paris?

(And knows where the libraries are located...

)







[edit on 26-12-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by serbsta


If you look at one of the first pages in the book by Proctor that I linked you'll find a nice image of a truncated pyramid and again on page 138-139.
The illustrations of the Grand Gallery on pages 140 and 154 show how this would have worked as an observatory very well.

The evidence of the precise angles of all of these passageways, shafts and the Gallery that all remain straight and true after several hundred feet along with the arrangement of stars that are claimed to align with these "sighting" holes is very persuasive. If these claims of stellar alignment did indeed occur then there is no possible way that this is a coincidence and therefore there is an intended purpose for this.
Keep in mind that a truncated pyramid at the level near the King's chamber would be at a position before the height of the blocks in the shafts and perhaps even before the caprice alterations to the inclination of these shafts.

I have also noticed that the unfinished pyramid has a symbolic meaning used to this day that is unknown, just look at the back of the American 1 dollar bill.

Then again, claiming that it was intended to become an observatory but that it was 'unfinished' is completely bunk. The Great Pyramid was not unfinished

This is true and is an obvious problem if we assume that the pyramid was build to completion and at no time did the builders stop.
However, it doesn't seem so strange when you consider that the construction could have stopped at particular levels and remained unfinished at these points for hundreds of years and then completed with the outer casing stones and finally to what we see today. The fact is that most of the temples around that area have been built then very carefully dismantled and rebuild several times each, and in some cases the alignment of the temples were moved a few degrees like the temple of Karnak.

Notice how the great halls of these temples are not at 90 degrees to their respective temples, ever wounder why?
The halls and causeways are not at right angels to the temples and even the entry ways inside are skewed at weird angles and I cannot believe that this was all accidental. The builders of these temples used the most difficult materials possible to build these structures and aligned everything to the cardinal points with laser precision yet they couldn't be bothered with right angles in the halls and entry ways?

Originally posted by Shane

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by Shane

The Coffer in the King's chamber has the same volume inside as the Ark of the Covenant.

This is false.

The Ark W=27.0, H=27.0, L= 45.0, V=32,805
Coffer (inner) W=26.8, H=34.4 , L=78.1 V=72,002
Coffer (outer) W=38.5, H=41.3 , L=89.6 , V=142,468

Obviously the dimensions differ, a lot.

Re-reading the above, I may have not taken this in the same manner you had my friend. Obviously you are suggesting both Volumes Internally, one of the coffer, and one of the Ark, but I was more incline to take it as the Volume of the coffer would equal the Arks.

Serbsta makes a good point here with the dimensions of the Ark/Coffer.
I have read that the inner volume to outer dimension ratio was commensurate with the stone tub (volume/outer dimensions) and "King's" chamber of the great pyramid. I was also inclined to think that the Ark possibly would fit inside the coffer but with Serbsta's numbers this doesn't seem to work.

I have been very skeptical about the connections with the Earth's weight and distance from the Sun so I keep in mind that all of these claims could all be bunk since I have not checked them myself. With that said however, I believe that there are plenty of reputable claims to measurement connections that are not limited to the Giza complex but are found in ancient temples the world over.

Originally posted by Vanitas

Because I am sure it is available in the British Library, or the Library of Congress, to mention just two of the libraries in cities where currently I am NOT.

(nudge nudge, wink wink... anyone?)

All right, the nudge and wink didn't work.
So let me put it this way:

Is there anyone here who is currently in London, Washington, New York, Paris?

(And knows where the libraries are located...

)

Ditto. Give us a shout if you're willing to help.

Originally posted by Devino

I have also noticed that the unfinished pyramid has a symbolic meaning used to this day that is unknown, just look at the back of the American 1 dollar bill.

Not unknown, depends on what you've heard though. In esoteric terms I have heard varying interpretations. I tend to side with the idea that the unfinished pyramid, with a 'missing' capstone is symbolic of the power and mystery that is God. God sits atop, and God cannot be replaced. In terms of politics, I've heard the unfinished pyramid on the back of the US greenback is symbolic of the limitless potential for the nation to grow and prosper.

Originally posted by Devino

This is true and is an obvious problem if we assume that the pyramid was build to completion and at no time did the builders stop.
However, it doesn't seem so strange when you consider that the construction could have stopped at particular levels and remained unfinished at these points for hundreds of years and then completed with the outer casing stones...

Hmm, I see a problem with that though. If we are to assume that the GP was built as an observatory over say, a period of 100 years, then somewhere along the way the planning must have been meddled. Let me explain. If the current state of the GP was what it looked like upon the time of completion, then you have to question the role of blocks within the shafts. What kind of modern day observatory would have a brick wall in front of the telescope?

reply to post by Devino


I'm not saying that the Ark could not fit inside the coffer, but the consensus among those who believe this rumor states that it could fit perfectly, as if it was made for this purpose. I was only trying to disprove that point.

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by Devino
I have also noticed that the unfinished pyramid has a symbolic meaning used to this day that is unknown, just look at the back of the American 1 dollar bill.

Not unknown, depends on what you've heard though. In esoteric terms I have heard varying interpretations. I tend to side with the idea that the unfinished pyramid, with a 'missing' capstone is symbolic of the power and mystery that is God. God sits atop, and God cannot be replaced. In terms of politics, I've heard the unfinished pyramid on the back of the US greenback is symbolic of the limitless potential for the nation to grow and prosper.

Well, I guess I should of said unknown to me. Still this leaves many unanswered questions about the meaning of the unfinished pyramid, and to be clear I would like to add that I think there is a difference between an unfinished pyramid and a missing cap stone. Either way there are questions about these symbols that go unanswered.

From the posts I have read in your threads I have come to look for meanings in ancient structures with meanings times three. Along the same lines as "Thrice great" or the 'Trilogy' (mind, body and spirit). These structures had spiritual meaning as well as physical/scientific, which can be measured, and the third part being a connection between the two or a communion. Some might say that this is a communion with God or a Stargate but I tend to think of it as a communion within ones self or a way to "Know Thyself".

If we are to assume that the GP was built as an observatory over say, a period of 100 years, then somewhere along the way the planning must have been meddled. Let me explain. If the current state of the GP was what it looked like upon the time of completion, then you have to question the role of blocks within the shafts. What kind of modern day observatory would have a brick wall in front of the telescope?

You are absolutely correct but whatever the case may be we have to question the role of the blocks in the shafts. I have thought about this in great detail which has sent me down a path all its own. The Epistemology of ancient myth and scientific knowledge. In particular there is evidence that over time great knowledge has been lost and is slowly being rediscovered (the great wheel of knowledge). On its own what I have learned regarding the cycles of knowledge is mind blowing.

So if Khufu's pyramid was built to align with a particular point in space (where Earth was) and then later covered up the question is why?!
This is what I think to be the single most important question regarding the pyramid, Why was it built and then sealed up in such a way?
Don't forget the stone plugs blocking the point where the ascending passageway meets with the descending or entry way. These blocks must have been placed in their final positions at the time of construction.
Does this suggest that the builders knew that we would forget and this was their way of preserving the knowledge and hiding it from those not worthy?

One more thing to keep in mind, for thousands of years the pyramids have been know as a storage of great knowledge yet nothing of value has been found inside. Some have even said that the knowledge is contained within the structure itself.

reply to post by Devino

 

I'm not saying that the Ark could not fit inside the coffer, but the consensus among those who believe this rumor states that it could fit perfectly, as if it was made for this purpose. I was only trying to disprove that point.

I understood your point and believe you have shown proof against this idea and if your measurements are correct then the Ark would not fit inside the pyramid's coffer. Even if the Ark would fit inside or that the dimensions were similar then what would it mean?

Originally posted by Devino

From the posts I have read in your threads I have come to look for meanings in ancient structures with meanings times three. Along the same lines as "Thrice great" or the 'Trilogy'...

The trilogy concept still intrigues me. I assume for some reason, that it would be childish to construe any formal relationship between the Gizamids and the trilogy. But at times it is so tempting when you begin to examine the relationship between the three pyramids and the almost systematically narrated involvement of Enoch, the "Pillars" and Seth (Set). Someone should do a thread on the relationship between these, it's fascinating but the research is time consuming.

Originally posted by Devino

You are absolutely correct but whatever the case may be we have to question the role of the blocks in the shafts. I have thought about this in great detail which has sent me down a path all its own.

It is indeed perplexing. It would almost be called cheating to state that these shafts were blocked off by others at a later date and not the original pyramid builders. But it seems just as silly to state that it was initially built this way.

Originally posted by Devino

So if Khufu's pyramid was built to align with a particular point in space (where Earth was) and then later covered up the question is why?!

It's strange. Could it be because the readings were no longer correct, due to astronomical procession? I'm no expert on these things, but wouldn't that mean that it would have been blocked off quite a while after it was initially built, because the error only then became noticeable?

Originally posted by Devino
Even if the Ark would fit inside or that the dimensions were similar then what would it mean?

I personally don't believe they're related, but there is a perplexing relationship between Moses, his brother Akhenaten (the lunatic pharaoh) and the events that transpired between them and the Israelites. We all know a part of this story from the Old Testament and that it did involve the Ark.

Fascinating topic again, but no damn time to adequately research it!

earlier in this thread, i put forward the idea that the 2 known shafts
could be representative of either the Pharoh's 2 ear canals/auditory nerve
or else his 2 optic nerves: see:

posted on 25-12-2009 @ 03:13 single this post

The outward 'Pyramid', may represent, on different levels or dimensions, several different
things; for instance the human brain/pituitary is symbolized, represented by the granite
lined 'Kings chamber' & the empty box (pituitary-hypothalamus) sitting in the center of the
chamber (brain)...
then the 'Kings Chamber/(brain-soul)'has the two known small passages which would represent
one's ear cannals,or one's optic nerves from the eyes...
[perhaps two more small pathways remain to be discovered]

as the dialogue continues, the scratching-of-heads increases too...

'serbsta' ~then you have to question the role of blocks within the shafts. What kind of modern day observatory would have a brick wall in front of the telescope?

'serbsta' ~It is indeed perplexing. It would almost be called cheating to state that these shafts were blocked off by others at a later date and not the original pyramid builders. But it seems just as silly to state that it was initially built this way.

No, not silly to an open mind...







the plugs in these representational shafts could symbolize either the wrappings of the mummified corpse
~or else~
these plugs could symbolise that the Kings chamber is 'cut-off' from the outside world
It would be absurd to think these plugs, (or 'doorways' as suggested by some fantasizers) were fashioned & put in place as an afterthought.

There is symbology for the shafts & the shafts being plugged,
we are just not imaginative to have deciphered the reason/meaning/ that works on the many 'levels' that the Pyramid structure represents.
the blocked shafts in relation to the pyramid representing the landmasses, or the planet itself---what could it mean?



[edit on 27-12-2009 by St Udio]

reply to post by serbsta


Your comment regarding the different shaft locations due to the precession caught my eye. Good question.

I don't know enough about astrology to know if that was a possibility. Or how to even research that theory.

I think it is important to read Scott Creighton's current thread here about the shafts and his theories that the different shaft locations were due to a pole/earth shift. (I believe he says of 6.5*).

Pyramids of Giza Indicate 2012

Now of course this would be a catastrophic event - but then again - if the message the Pyramids is trying to tell us, well... it must be really important.

Scott has done an immense amount of research on this topic. For those unfamilar with his work I highly recommend his threads. Click on his profile to see the many threads he has done. Here's a good one as well:

Giza Precession Wheel

I would be curious what the contributors to this thread think of his theories since they directly relate to the discussion and ideas here.

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by Devino
Along the same lines as "Thrice great" or the 'Trilogy'...

.... pyramids and the almost systematically narrated involvement of Enoch, the "Pillars" and Seth (Set).

So I take it both of you are not troubled by a suggestion that the Builder may have infact been Enoch. Just Asking

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by Devino
....we have to question the role of the blocks in the shafts.

It is indeed perplexing........ But it seems just as silly to state that it was initially built this way.

I have always believed these where Ventilation Shafts, as well as Skylights, aligned by the Stars for light where there was none.

But the blocks do not make any sense, unless.....

I noted it earlier, and will again. "Egypt is my People". This is GOD saying this.

The GOD of Abraham. The GOD of the Hebrews. The GOD of Ishmael. The GOD who dwelt in the Temple in David's City. The GOD of Moses. The GOD of the Christians.

He (GOD) seems pretty clear about this.

What if we have been just misinformed about Egypt's true past by those whom claim to know better?

Erik van Doniken had an interesting comment to say about the Great Pyramid, where he suggested the Ancient Arabians believed the Great Pyramid was built inorder to store the Written Words of the Ancients and protect these documents from the Great Flood. Of course this implies it had nothing to do with any Pharoh, not to mention it would be about twice as old as we are told it could be.

But if this was something that was remotely possible, those blocks in the ventilation shafts suddenly can be understood, since you would need these sealed prior to the Floodwaters getting in. Now whether they would close via a trigger or where intentionally sealed is another question.

Just offering things for consideration.

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by Devino
Even if the Ark would fit inside or that the dimensions were similar then what would it mean?

I personally don't believe they're related, but there is a perplexing relationship between Moses, his brother Akhenaten (the lunatic pharaoh) and the events that transpired between them and the Israelites. We all know a part of this story from the Old Testament and that it did involve the Ark.

And here I thought Akmoses, was Mose's brother. His name does mean, Brother of Moses. I also believe Akmoses was a hero in some respect, because of his ultimate victory over the Hykos, who seemingly have an appearance of being Hebrew in Origins. Certainly a Pharoh's spin would envision a Win/Victory over the departing followers of Moses, rather than reporting the results factually. It wouldn't be all that glorious for a Pharoh's pride.

"Fascinating topic again, but no damn time to adequately research it!"

I agree, it is interesting, and I have enjoyed your open and honest responses to various points of view. That's a far deal better than I have ever noted previously when the Pyramid get discussed. Generally the Rabit bunch come out for blood, if one ever suggest Kufu had nothing to do with the Building of the Great Pyramid. An intolerant bunch they are.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Julie Washington
Scott has done an immense amount of research on this topic. For those unfamilar with his work I highly recommend his threads......Here's a good one as well:
Giza Precession Wheel

I would be curious what the contributors to this thread think of his theories since they directly relate to the discussion and ideas here.

Well now that you have provoked me,

Yes, I would say that the his premise is fair, and the matter does in some manner reflect on the subject, although by now, the "Other" rooms Hawass is seeking seems to be mute.

I know, I have a bias in this topic, since I believe Isaiah had it right. I also believe the Sphinx and Great Pyramid are a lot older than what we are told. I also believe that Enoch, was the Master Builder of the Great Pyramid.

With that said, I have pulled this off another subject I was discussing at one time, which is a little off topic, but related non the less, and thought Scott's principles echoed what I noted back then.

The Genesis Recreation Account / Procession of the Equinox / Constellation Procession

The First Day = 21800 BC = the Age of Capricorn (Let there be Light)
The Second Day = 19650 BC = the Age of Sagittarius (the Firmament or Heavens)
The Third Day = 17500 BC = the Age of Scorpius (The Ground and Plants)
The Fourth Day = 15350 BC = the Age of Libra (The Stars in the Heavens)
The Fifth Day = 13200 BC = the Age of Virgo (Aquatic Life and Fowl)
The Sixth Day = 11000 BC = the Age of Leo (Animal Life and the Races)
The Seventh Day = 8850 BC = The Age of Cancer (Adam & Eve)
The Eight Day = 6700 BC = the Age of Gemini(Noah and the Flood)
The Ninth Day = 4500 BC = the Age of Taurus (Bull of Baal)
The Tenth Day = 2400 BC = the Age of Aries (Abraham to David & the Prophets)
The Eleventh Day = 200 BC = the Age of Pisces (Chirst through to the Current)
The Twelth Day = 2012 AD = the Age of Aquarius (Chirst's return & Revelations)

Whether any of this could apply, is speculation, but the Sphinx is representative of what, The Lion and Man. The Age of Leo screams out here in this respect. What is the number of Man? The Sixth Day. What is the Symbolic Symbol of the Throne of David? The Lion?

I also believe, it is generally accepted the Sphinx predates the Great Pyramid.

As for the Pyramid Specific, I would believe it is at least 8000 Years old, if not more. As for the balance, I am sure I was clear previously.

Thanks for being provoking Julie

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by St Udio


I prefer to think of the GP as serving a practical purpose rather than a symbolic one alone. But it's an interesting theory.

reply to post by Julie Washington


I've read Creighton's work here on ATS. Most of his conclusions have already been reached by the likes of Bauval in regards to the astronomical associations with the 'sacred' Giza site.

reply to post by Shane

Originally posted by Shane

So I take it both of you are not troubled by a suggestion that the Builder may have infact been Enoch.

Just Asking

Not at all. But I am doubtful.

Originally posted by Shane

But if this was something that was remotely possible, those blocks in the ventilation shafts suddenly can be understood, since you would need these sealed prior to the Floodwaters getting in. Now whether they would close via a trigger or where intentionally sealed is another question.

Bingo.

I don't think it matters how they were closed off, but that is some wonderful brainstorming right there.

Originally posted by Shane

And here I thought Akmoses, was Mose's brother. His name does mean, Brother of Moses. I also believe Akmoses was a hero in some respect, because of his ultimate victory over the Hykos, who seemingly have an appearance of being Hebrew in Origins. Certainly a Pharoh's spin would envision a Win/Victory over the departing followers of Moses, rather than reporting the results factually. It wouldn't be all that glorious for a Pharoh's pride.

Who is Akmoses?

EDIT: Oh, you mean Ahmoses I?

He was the founder of the Eighteenth dynasty (1550 - 1292BC). While Moses is said to have lived between 1300 and 1150 B.C. (www.who2.com...). That put's Ahmoses existence at least 200 years prior to the birth of Moses. While Akhenaten was said to have died at around 1330BC.

Moses' actual brother was supposdly Aaron, but I've read some interesting research in regards to the association with Akhenaten, particulary with thier connection in regards to monotheistic beliefs. Akhenaten enforced a monotheistic belief in favor of the Sun God.

Here's what Freud has to say about it:

Freud argued that Moses had been an Atenist priest forced to leave Egypt with his followers after Akhenaten's death. Freud argued that Akhenaten was striving to promote monotheism, something that the biblical Moses was able to achieve

-Moses and Monotheism, Freud.

The claims that Moses existed almost 2 centuries prior to Akhenaten's death is false. I am much more inclined to believe that they were related, hence their shared beliefs.

Back on topic. Let's assume the GP was either an observatory or served as a storage of knowledge during a period of heavy flooding, or both.

1. If it was an observatory, what is the role of Sarcophagus in the King's chamber?

2. If it was for storing knowledge, what is the role of Sarcophagus in the King's chamber?... oh, wait, I think I just answered that. But then again, it wouldn't make sense to build a giant pyramid only to store information within the confines of a small box, would it?


[edit on 27/12/2009 by serbsta]

Originally posted by serbsta
The trilogy concept still intrigues me. I assume for some reason, that it would be childish to construe any formal relationship between the Gizamids and the trilogy.

I am glad you followed my concept because I wasn't sure it was making sense as I wrote it. For reasons I can not explain I now look at things in this manner, the Trilogy, and a scalable connection, as above so below. I would like to say that it is from reading on the subjects here but it is more than that, it is an understanding that is beyond normal cognition.

It would almost be called cheating to state that these shafts were blocked off by others at a later date and not the original pyramid builders. But it seems just as silly to state that it was initially built this way.

I get your point and it does seem silly to block off the shafts in this way. The ascending passageway was also plugged in at least two different locations which also doesn't make sense. The theory that these plugs were put in at a later date after the pyramid was finished is nonsense.
But then again could these plugs be put in when the pyramid was in a truncated shape?
What I mean is could the pyramid be used as an observatory and then plugged up and completed at a later date?
I don't have a theory as to why this would be necessary, in my opinion this is simply the way the evidence is leading.

I hear you about not having enough time to spend on proper research and what I have brought up is more for a point of information. Something that I feel is important to keep in mind as you do further research on ancient civilizations and their myths.

It's strange. Could it be because the readings were no longer correct, due to astronomical procession? I'm no expert on these things, but wouldn't that mean that it would have been blocked off quite a while after it was initially built, because the error only then became noticeable?

Funny, this is where I entered Archaeology from an astronomical interest. Herodotus was a historian and did not discover precession of the equinoxes, he learned of these things from Egyptian priests and Shaman alike. I have spent a considerable amount of time learning about the function of the Earth's axial precession and there is no way any one person could accidentally discover this motion in their life time without knowing what to look for.

There are two theories concerning precession of the equinoxes and both contain problems; Earth's wobble due to Lunar/Solar tidal effects and, a binary stellar orbit. As I look closely at Lunar/Solar tidal effects I see a net zero force being applied over time. I don't want to try and explain my thoughts on this here so suffice it to say that I don't agree with this theory even though it is widely accepted as fact.
Binary Stellar orbit means our Sun has a companion star that we (our entire solar system) orbit yet the problem with this is locating such a companion. This is where the study of ancient astronomy gets very interesting.

Remember how we discussed the 360 day calendar and possible events that added 5.24219 days? I believe that this old calendar of 12 months with 30 days each was accurate and an event disturbed the orbits of the planets causing a change in the calendar which was predicted and recorded. Egypt was not the only civilization to be a part of recording this enigma and for this reason I hope you continue your work on "The Ancient Series" (wait to you get to the Americas). All in good time though.

I personally don't believe they're related, but there is a perplexing relationship between Moses, his brother Akhenaten (the lunatic pharaoh) and the events that transpired between them and the Israelites. We all know a part of this story from the Old Testament and that it did involve the Ark.

I cannot remember which book I read this from by this reminds me of a quote, "Magic is science not yet know". The so called magical properties of these objects must follow a set of rules or laws and perhaps this is the reason why they are similar. They are following a set of rules or "specs.". Well, all of this is redundant if these measurements (Ark/Coffer) are not commensurate.

reply to post by St Udio

I have recently read of a connection between ancient architecture and human anatomy in the book, "Serpent in the Sky" by John Anthony West so the idea is new to me. There is an interesting illustration compering the temple of Luxor to the human body on pages 172-176.

Keep in mind that symbolism is just one of three purposes these buildings possess, or at least this is a perspective that I believe to be true.


reply to post by Julie Washington

I have read many of the threads in Scott Creighton's forum and replied to some as well. He has some very good information and it paints quite a different picture of our history much of which I agree with. The evidence in favor of a catastrophic global climate change due to an astronomical event that occurred around 12,900 years ago is overwhelming. There is even more information in ancient myths that tell of the reoccurring of this event throughout history. Where I disagree is when the date 2012 is used in account of a supposed predicted catastrophe. I believe that this date is the end of a predicted age and not a prophesied doomsday. My prediction is we will survive 2012 just fine and possibly come out ever the wiser if we are lucky (enlightenment?).

Originally posted by Shane

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by Devino
Along the same lines as "Thrice great" or the 'Trilogy'...

.... pyramids and the almost systematically narrated involvement of Enoch, the "Pillars" and Seth (Set).

So I take it both of you are not troubled by a suggestion that the Builder may have infact been Enoch.

Just Asking

This is not something I have looked into but if a connection does present itself I will follow it. The book of Enoch is an enigma to me and I find it intriguing.

Originally posted by serbsta
2. If it was for storing knowledge, what is the role of Sarcophagus in the King's chamber?... oh, wait, I think I just answered that. But then again, it wouldn't make sense to build a giant pyramid only to store information within the confines of a small box, would it?

I don't think the Sarcophagus was used to store anything, after all it was said to be found empty, rather it could be used to indicate a sacred volume or even a ratio of the volume to outer dimensions as compared with the volume of the King's chamber. This size ratio is a tricky concept to describe without any illustrations.
Consider how the circumference of a circle (pi) is described in architectural design and the value of the Golden Ratio (phi). The pyramid is a vessel that contains the knowledge of sacred geometry. That which we have not yet learned is contained within this structure just as much as what we already know to be true is also contained within. What I mean by this is as we learn, more of the secrets will be revealed to us and thus from that point on it will be considered science as though it was known all along. Magic is science not yet known.

[edit on 12/28/2009 by Devino]

Originally posted by Devino
The ascending passageway was also plugged in at least two different locations which also doesn't make sense. The theory that these plugs were put in at a later date after the pyramid was finished is nonsense.
But then again could these plugs be put in when the pyramid was in a truncated shape?

I'm not sure, but the multiple plugs, evidenced in the ascending passageways as well as the shafts which seem to have more then 2 stone plugs that we are currently aware of only support one theory. It was meant to survive something. Quite possibly a flood.

I don't need to look far to help support this theory, that it was a flood surviving mechanism, whether for knowledge or for people, I do not know.

Remember Khufu's boats?



www.touregypt.net...

These disassembled boats were found buried close by, as if they were one day supposed to be assembled when the time called for it.

Originally posted by Devino
I don't think the Sarcophagus was used to store anything, after all it was said to be found empty, rather it could be used to indicate a sacred volume or even a ratio of the volume to outer dimensions as compared with the volume of the King's chamber. This size ratio is a tricky concept to describe without any illustrations.

I'm well aware of the ratios but I personally find it hard to believe that the King's chamber was used to store an empty sarcophagus (we really should stop calling it that) alone. If all that was intended was for the sarcophagus to hold knowledge of sacred geometry, etc. then surely there would have been a more practical means of passing on this knowledge.

Further, I HIGHLY doubt it was left empty, even the most close-minded skeptic would doubt this.

Originally posted by serbsta
...evidenced in the ascending passageways as well as the shafts which seem to have more then 2 stone plugs that we are currently aware of only support one theory. It was meant to survive something. Quite possibly a flood.

I tend to agree with your thoughts on this. Could this be evidence of a global flood and the prior knowledge of this catastrophe? I think we could use a better understanding of these passageways; size, angles, lengths and their relative positions with their plugs. The manner in which these passageways were constructed, their dimensions and the material used within the plugs (type of stone and metal attachments) is not as simple as one may think.

Remember Khufu's boats?

I have read that these boats were not only sea worthy but under close examination reveals that the rigging had wear marks proving that these ships were actually used. This is quite a superfluous symbolism I think. Further more these boats were used in the water and were no good for stellar travel, another meaningless symbol for "solar boats".

then surely there would have been a more practical means of passing on this knowledge.

First, I didn't mean that the sacred geometry or ratios were limited to the granite tub and the chamber. The relationship to sacred geometry, geometric coordinates, the surface area of the Earth and stellar alignments are found in measurements throughout the whole pyramid. The manner in which I state this is a huge understatement, when I say that sacred geometry is found in the pyramid structure I mean it is Everywhere. A detailed history of the explorers of the pyramids is found in Peter Tompkins' book, "Secrets of the Great Pyramids", which explains this very well. I would recommend reading this book if you have the time, very informative and enjoyable to read. The amount of material pertaining to the theory on these claims is far to great to bring up here.

ADD: There have been many expeditions in the recent past that have spent literally thousands of man hours surveying the pyramids and the Giza complex. This is detailed very well in Tompkins' book.

Second, I don't think this kind of superior knowledge could simply be written down on paper. There are several possible problems with this idea. If the pyramids are indeed older then we were taught by thousands of years then that would put the construction at a time when there was no know written language found. This in itself I find to be very intriguing. To build such structures without any written language seems to suggest only two possibilities. One, written language was not thought up or invented yet. Or two, there was no need for written language. The mere fact that these structures were found void of any inscriptions (aside from Vyse's forged graphite) gives some credibility to the latter of those two. This is just one thing in a long list of differences these structures have with everything else that was built in Egypt supposedly at the same time.

Further, I HIGHLY doubt it was left empty, even the most close-minded skeptic would doubt this.

Well, as evidence has it, all of the pyramids were found empty and the great pyramid was found empty from the first explorers that made their way inside in 820 AD. I suppose we could disregard the detailed notes from the Arabian expedition by Al-Ma'mum, the first ones to enter the great pyramid, and accept instead the contradicting speculations made by writers that these structures were robbed of their treasure. Personally I find Al Ma'mum to be far more credible in this case and in such at least the great pyramid was found completely and totally empty. Absent of any treasure, artifacts, hieroglyphs and most importantly mummies. This in itself says a lot about the theory that this pyramid was used as a tomb.

The fact is that the stone tub is empty...was said to have been found empty by the first explorers...and no one has ever claimed to have found anything inside this container...this says a lot. It has no lid nor any inscriptions and the only similarity it has to a coffin or sarcophagus is its general shape, if one were to look closely even the shape does not resemble Egyptian sarcophagi. I would not like to hold on to the old theory that the pyramid was a tomb simply because it's the only good theory we've got, I would rather throw these ideas in the trash and follow the evidence. The evidence is showing proof that the chambers inside the pyramid and the granite tub were all found empty. This may not be a fact but there is nothing contradicting it as of yet.

There is something that keeps coming to mind at this point for me, I remember reading that when struck the granite tub would ring like a bell. This causes me to think about the comments Matyas has made concerning the structures being used to resonate sound frequencies. I don't know what that means but the thought keeps popping up.

[edit on 12/28/2009 by Devino]

Hmmm...

Thought what I posted was fairly interesting, has everyone already heard of these 'scientific' theories for the pyramid? Or are people just more interested in the esoteric side of the story? Or perhaps the post just got missed because of the length...

Also, thought this would serve as a good BUMP because I do think this topic is very interesting.

Found some more info here:

The phi ratio describes the relative proportions of the three frequencies that stimulate the nonlinear standing wave and is also apparent in the modeled distribution of acoustic pressure along the resonant cavity which results. The coherent nonlinear structure was achieved through periodic stimulation of a medium of precise geometric boundaries designed to induce the interaction of three different resonant modes in the ratio of phi. This standing wave structure informs the phi geometry of the Orion pyramids, elucidated by the superimposition of the pattern onto a cross-section of the Great Pyramid taken along the North-South axis. The high-amplitude transduction of the piezoelectric limestone of the pyramids creates an electromagnetic field around the structures, the movement of electrons becoming toriodal or donut-shaped.

Legit or Crap? there is some cool visuals at the link as well.