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Do politicians have similar minds to criminals?

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posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:11 PM
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EDIT: Mods, if this isn't in the right forum- please move it to the correct one.




I've been thinking about politicians and the traits people have to have to be successful in politics. I've been wondering what kind of traits someone must have so they would be successful. Someone must be ruthless. Someone must be corrupt. Someone must be willing to tell lies about their own socialist planning programs. They must feel good with having more power. A politician is a funny animal in the sense that they always seem to be worried about their own numbers telling them how good they're doing or how bad they're doing. While at the same time they're trying to sell the masses their own central programs... they have to be ruthless to be good.

I'm not talking about what we want in a politician. We want someone who is honest. We want someone who will step up against the establishment (or for it if you're a conservative). That's not what people who go into politics take the character traits on. They take on certain characteristics to best adapt to their environment and to win. That's what they care about most.

Politicians appear as dreamers to fool the masses and make their central planning programs seem more appealing than they actually are. They want to enact central planning schemes so they engage in rhetoric telling people that they are for income equality... or they'll tell people that other people who believe different from them are racist, or, that they'll appear to go after the status-quo... all they're really doing is catering to their party's special interest groups... and pandering to the masses. They're well educated and they're able to lie to people about what their program will do. Now what kind of politician does it take for one to do this? No normal person would just go up and lie to someone else and feel fine about it. It's not their job. It's the job of a politician to make something sound good when selling their product... or their plan.... it takes a certain kind of person to say something without remorse.

Criminals go around killing people without remorse. They'll rape a lady. They'll shoot up a school. These criminals haven't developed a moral conscious. Politicians will lie to people and they'll break promises and they won't feel moral qualms abou them. If they do they only say perhaps they wish they could do more... in the long run they don't feel bad about what they do, what political opponents they kill off, or, what lobbyists they hire...

So don't you have to have somewhat of a criminal mind to be a politician? Most politicians are devious. They'll sell their central planning policies to the public and they'll make it seem appealing and these people don't even know that their programs will be paid for out of their tax dollars. These politicians act like it's fine... and that it's okay to steal people and take people's money and to force retired veterans to come back to fight... they think it's fine to hire mercinaries to kill other people- much like gangs would hire a hit man. Politicians have no problem telling people something's fine when it's not. Politicians are worse than criminals because really when you think about it all a criminal does is just steal your money... what politicians do on a national level is to lie to people. They'll lie to you... they'll tell you they're all about fighting corruption, that... they're getting in bed with the political establishment. When people talk about the political establishment they're talking about the people who have the power. They're talking abou the people who own Washington and who make all the decisions behind closed doors.

So I mean aren't politicians similar to criminals and sociopaths? I know there are exceptions to the rule- like Ron Paul. Ron Paul is honest about his views and he doesn't sugar code them... although I disagree with him on abortion I agree with him on pretty much everything else. However, most politicians are sleezy and are dishonest. You don't know what they're going to do after you vote for them. It takes a special person to be willing to lie from you, to steal from you, and to not feel bad about it at all... I mean how many people would go out of their way and do that to you on a daily basis?

[edit on 10-12-2009 by Frankidealist35]




posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:21 PM
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I have my doubts about Ron Paul, think he's being corrupted...

There's the thing about politicians, is it's so easy to do one bad thing, that's profitable for yourself, and then convince yourself through odd reasoning that it's not that bad, and that you'll make up for it later, and so on.

Just like 'Well it's not that bad if I pee in the pool, look how much water there is".

or "If I just take this one candy bar, it's not that bad, the company makes a ton of money".

Examples for people who aren't politicians lol.

I think that's the type of reasoning they use, or they deserve what they steal.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:28 PM
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Not sure if it's a universal trait but you can certainly lump lawyers/judges in with the politicians. Deliberate fraud, extortion and even kidnapping are fundamental to the workings of the legal system today. Yet, they tend to do so only if they have built convincing rationals that will be reasonable to another judge on appeal.

At some point, these people make a conscious decision to be part of a criminal scam. I can't imagine they do so to please the pope but rather to get their share of the booty. Certainly many career educators and scientists fall into the same boat.

I'd like to think some people, given the same opportunities, would still find the ideas too repulsive to be a part of. But, I suspect they are a serious minority.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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Well, in general, they seem to both be sociopathic personalities. That is, both groups don’t feel that laws apply to them as individuals. In both mind-sets, laws are for suckers.

The difference is hypocrisy. At least most criminals are honest enough to acknowledge that they are not willing to play by the rules. Politicians don’t have this even this minimal capacity for confession. Haven’t we seen more than enough examples of politicians who don’t pay taxes, break the speed limit, etc. while incessantly prescribing rules for the betterment of the rest of us moral and intellectual ‘inferiors’? One group totally goes outside the system and revels in it. The other attempts to subvert it, but in a devious attempt to avoid the repercussions and also seeks to maintain a position of intellectual and moral superiority.

All things considered, I’d have to say that the true, self-admitted, criminals are more honest at least. They express a desire to break the law and do so. The politicians are far worse because they profess a motive of maintaining the law while endeavoring to break it. That makes them far superior scum in my book.

Both types are crooks. And a crook is a crook. But a hypocritical crook is even harder to swallow.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by passenger
 


That's exactly what I've been saying. Politicians are willing to lie to you and steal from you and to walk all over you. Criminals don't want to act like they're playing the rules. They won't give you the appearance of deception. They'll just straight out do it and break your home and steal stuff from you.


Politicians will try to make what they're doing seem appealing when in fact they're doing some of the same kind of things. They'll work with the system and they'll try to make those same actions... smearing people... lying to people and taking their money... they'll try to make those actions seem appealing. So... that's what I'm saying. Politicians really are similar to criminals... in that they do the same kinds of things... and have the same lack of conscious that criminals do. The main difference is that politicians are willing to lie about what they're doing and what they're going to do. At least criminals as you've said are honest.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:38 PM
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Politicians are criminals with suits!
So, yes! The answer is yes.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:39 PM
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Politicians in this country (most especially on the national Federal level) have one primary job required of them when they get elected. That is to make the amoral and sometimes illegal, at least legal and if at all possible appear to be moral for a super class of criminals known affectionately and otherwise as the Powers that Be.

This relatively small tight nit group of wealthy industrialists and land holders, bankers and attorneys and shipping and transportation tycoons hand pick and preselect the candidates on both sides of the aisle that are going to run.

They can do this, and do this in almost every district in the nation save a very few.

Without these people supporting your candidacy you simply will get no real press coverage, and raise very little money, and gain introduction to none of the grassroots and special interest organizations and voter blocks that can put you in office.

How the majority of them end up in office is a conspiracy as well as a crime in and of itself. Once in office a very
Talented select few, and I mean talented from the standpoint of having no moral compunctions whatsoever will be methodically groomed for eventual Presidential appointment to key agency head jobs.

So if you are one of the Powers that Be and you need the FCC to make life difficult on one of your competitors this is not a problem.

If you are one of the Powers that Be and you need the SEC to look the other way while you commit and massive fraud and swindle this is no problem.

If some relatively inexperienced Agent in the FBI or Secret Service just happens to discover that one closet that wouldn’t fit into your closet, no problem either, the head of the FBI or Secret Service or the Attorney General can always quash the investigation or make sure it goes no where.

If this isn’t humanly possible a Federal Judge can always loose the evidence stored in his chambers he requested to review against you. Some Clerk will take the fall for it. No big deal.

When all else fails you can quietly go home for a month while the Bureau of Prisons decides where you are going
To serve out your life sentence while you fake your own death, find a suitable body to stuff in a coffin and have
The coroner swear up and down its you, before having some vagrant who met an unlucky end cremated.

The politicians are the criminal protectors of the most dangerous deadly and costly criminals that exist.

Good luck at changing this system at the polls!



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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People use the word criminal to loosely. You could have a guy that would not hurt anybody and tell the truth to his own demise, down load some music and poof criminal. A criminal yes legally, but I think not in what you describe.

But in the essence of what you are asking is yes. But more often than not more like a sociopath. I guess it’s hard for them to resist the money from lobbing groups.

Some people that are sociopath become criminals. Some people that are sociopath become politicians. Some people that are sociopath become cops.

I think with cops they should think like lawbreakers to aid in the apprehension of a suspect. That’s just not always the case.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:53 PM
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They run the largest and most corrupted corporations on the planet. In New Zealand you serve for four years and get $140k NZD a year for the rest of your life as a pension. It's in their own interests to perpetuate the virus/plague that is government, Tim Shadbolt himself (a prominent politician) has admitted that what he once fought against he has now become....



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


So in essence then, the only difference is that, perhaps, (and it pains me to say this) politicians are just smarter than your average crook? They just understand that the real money, the safe money, isn’t sticking up a liquor store with a gun but negotiating with a corporation for ‘political contributions’? That easy gain isn’t acquired by cracking a safe but by attaching an earmark to a bill? Could they be that smart? Politicians, really?

But if we accept this statement as a general truism: That professional politicians are the smartest and therefore the most dangerous sort of criminal. Then shouldn’t we regard them as the greatest threat to our existence? What do we do then to solve the problem?

I remember (foggily) somebody with the last name of Jefferson on Madison or Something-son, addressing this problem and proposing solutions about 200 years ago. I’ll have to look it up and see what they said to do….


[edit on 11-12-2009 by passenger]



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:27 AM
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you guys really need to leave us sociopaths out of this discussion.
I'll bet there are more sociopaths here than you think.

I mean who can look at society and NOT be disgusted?
Only morons,that's who.

There are SO MANY laws that EVERYONE is a criminal.
This sets up in effect a dictatorship that can get anyone at anytime.

The difference being the legal and political professions are simply smarter and better at it than "criminals" are.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by the_grand_pooh-bah
 


Well, I am certainly a bipolar sociopath. Hell, I have to tear my heart out just to feel anything for a person. I either feel deeply or nothing at all. There is no "happy medium" with me. That is a classic sociopathic trait. Criminal? Nah. Never been arrested in my life.





[edit on 11-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

reply to post by the_grand_pooh-bah

Ahhhh, you think that makes you special? There are more of us than you think. We just can’t admit it in public. And maybe we're just to cowardly to act on our impulses - or perhaps everyone is. Still, got to deal with those of us that are doing it to us rather than us doing it to them.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by passenger
 


Of course I'm special,mom said so.

as far as what to do about them.
(this idea is a work in progress so cut a little slack)

1.first require a 24/7 oath for politicians and government officials pertaining to their job.EVERY word they speak MUST be true unless it is private information.

2.professional lobbying by corporations needs to be illegal

3.corruption by government officials needs to be treated like the treason it is.

4.bring back gold standard for money.

5?



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 09:56 AM
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I don't know if they have brains similar to criminals...probably.But I do know they behave as criminals,except for one thing-regular criminals are held accountable for their actions...



Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?


is a good bible quote,which can be applied to politicians(IMO).



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by the_grand_pooh-bah
 


All good suggestions. Any or all of these would go a long way in improving the situation. The problem is that they make the rules. They're certainly not going to make things more restrictive for themselves.

Plus, your list of fixes seems to be based on common sense. That ensures that there is NO WAY they would ever be enacted by our government.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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I think its a far to generalized question to be correct.

There's a difference between the guy who steals because he is poor and the guy who steals to feed his meth habit. Theres a difference between killing someone out of revenge than doing it for no reason.

Saying 'the mindset of criminals' makes it seem like anyone who commits a crime is of a singular mindset, which is simply not true.

But there certainly is a pattern of sociopathic narcissism in both.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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LOL ALL people are potential criminals. Even you Frank.

A politician that stands up against the establishment? Politicians are the establishment. Now that is a pipe dream! An honest politician lol, I have yet to meet an honest person, let alone a politician. If you believe anyone is honest then you are fooling yourself, we all lie and cheat, some just won't admit it. Even if it's only doing a rolling red light stop, no one is innocent.

We all work from the same set of motivations, survival, happiness etc., if those desires are not met then we react depending on our situation. Given the right situation anyone can become a criminal, you are not immune. If you were starving would you steal food?

There is no 'criminal mind', just people who act and react to their given environment and situation. This is not Hollywood, 'criminals' rarely sit around deciding what crimes to break. Most crime is not premeditated, but the stupid action of a desperate person.

A person is not a criminal until they commit a crime, so did the persons mind become different after the act? It's a dangerous path that law enforcement uses, profiling to know whether a person is a potential criminal before any criminal act. According to the police we're all criminals, just some of us haven't been caught yet.

If you are a murderer, other than of the crime of passion type, then you have a serious psychological problem. But not all people with psychological problems are 'criminals'. Be careful with labels, they are dangerous. Most people who commit crime are not 'criminals', just people who made bad decisions.

Most property crime is a result of the unfair system we live in. An atmosphere of desire is created by the media. We're conditioned to believe that we need this stuff they push to enjoy life. Our resources for survival are in the hands of private individuals (often stolen) and we are expected to pay and pay for the very needs to simply survive. Poverty plays a huge part in crime, from the mental stress of constant fight to survive, which can turn people violent and uncaring. It is a fact that there is more mental health problems in the poor than the rich.

Making more laws and giving stiffer sentences is not going to stop crime, because as I said most crime is not premeditated so the 'criminal' doesn't even think of the possible punishment. We need to fix the root of the problem, and that is private ownership of resources and the unfair distribution of those resources.

[edit on 12/11/2009 by ANOK]



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