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Jesus Christ not a savior, only a prophet.

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posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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A great puzzle to me is those who claim Jesus is a prophet and yet ignore the things he says, such as:

"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:40

Notice the singular "the Son" and that Jesus will raise him up on the last day (not God)

"The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again." - John 10:17

Jesus is saying here that he raises himself from the grave. What prophet has done this? Why do those who say Jesus is a prophet not believe that he came back and continued to teach?

"Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves." - John 14:11

Yet the miracles are not believed by those who say Jesus is a prophet. Why is this?

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener." - John 15:1

But those who say Jesus is a prophet disregard that he is the true vine, recognizing only the gardener.

There is more surely, but let's start with John first.

"Then he (Jesus) opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ (Messiah) will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." - Luke 24:45-47

[edit on 11-12-2009 by saint4God]




posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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I don't think you understand the power of God or what exactly is at play here.

The true teaching of Jesus is that he resurrects inside his disciples. The day will come when this happens on a grander scale, than it is happening now but until then - this is what is going down. The promise is that he was going away but would be seen again. Truths such as these are meant for everyone and not just those closely associated with him two thousand years ago.

Jesus is the counselor. He came and he taught and he made known every mystery, that he had learned from God. Though the mysteries are somewhat hidden - they are there. The promise is that he was going away but would be seen again. A promise was given for another counselor to be with us forever. In this form the Greeks called him the Christ, the Jews the Messiah but it all boils down to a spiritual birthing process of spirit and water, which produces the Son of Man.

And the Son of Man is Jesus. No ordinary prophet can resurrect inside you. He is the wonderful counselor promised from ages past and all who come into the truth, will be taught by him. This is the path that has been laid out before us and only when a persona comes into such a high spiritual truth will they even begin to comprehend what it means that "I and the Father are one" or "Hear O Israel your God is one."

The path to the truth is narrow and Jesus predicted few would actually find it. He has risen. And he will do it again, and again, and again until the full numbers are in.

Jesus said that John the Baptist was more than a prophet.

What is more than a prophet??



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by killuminati2012
I'm really glad you posted this, because I've always felt the same way. I believe he existed and was a prophet, but I don't believe he is one and the same with God.



Prophet??

He was a king. That is what Christ means - the anointed king. That is why they pinned that big notice above the cross saying "King of the Jews". This was no jest, this was real.

Unless you understand that King Jesus was royal, you will never understand his story.

.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by troubleshooter
 



John recorded Jesus as saying to the Jews, "...if you believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24

It's interesting to note that the same books claim john to be uneducated an ignorant fisherman, so it's highly unlikely that the illiterate dude wrote anything, if in fact he ever existed.

I have read this comment from you previously somewhere...
...but I think you come to this with a post-modern bias.

A persons trade in the first century did not preclude them from education...
...and it can be argued that there was no such thing as an 'ignorant Jew' in the 1st Century (perhaps ever)...
...they have always been big into 'home-schooling'.

Paul was a tent maker but had been schooled by Gamaliel.

You are also discounting the real effect that the Spirit can have on a man...
...He could even influence a Moocowman to write works that survive 2000 years if you let Him.




posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by TinFoilHatMan55
Jesus Christ not a savior, only a prophet.


A prophet? how about rather an anti-savior and a false prophet? An image made from human imagination and human hands. AKA the anti-christ. The greatest conspiracy in the history of mankind. The Messiah prophesied about him in his crucifixion as he said Lord, Lord why have you forsaken me. Even many Atheists see the misguidings of religious doctrines however they themselves have been deceived into believing the doctrines of Christianity are accurate interpretations of the scriptures.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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Groupies--

The weird phrase 'bar enasha' found in Aramaic Daniel 7:13-14 is the main source for the Son of Man sayings placed into the mouth (in Greek !) of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk. Iesous) in the council approved canonical Greek gospel material.

'And I Daniel saw in visions of the night, behold, one like the Son of Man (Aram. 'bar Enasha') approaching accompanied with the clouds of heaven, and lo, there he approached the Ancient of Days and [they[ brought him near before his face[s]. And there was given him Dominion, and Glory, and a Kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and tongues should serve him: yea, his Dominion is an everlasting Dominion, which shall not pass away, and his Kingdom that which shall never be eradicated...'

You cannot separate any conception he had of himself from that weird Aramaic title 'Bar Enasha' ('the son of man') which had Daviddic overtones ('and was given a kingdom and glory and dominion') when phrases like

'Listen lady, the Son of Man was sent ONLY to the Elect of the Lost Sheep of the House of Yisro'el' (e.g. Matt chap 15), where the prophetic overtone is at the root of the saying (a prophet is one who speaks for another (Heb. Nabi'a) and who is typically 'sent' to deliver a message e.g. Isaiah chapter 6 "whom shall we SEND, or who WILL GO for us? and Isaiah said, Here I am send me !" (sort of like an Israelitish version of an Egyptian Shabti statue !)

There is also a more generic meaning for the phrase 'bar-enasha', i.e. an average human being, sort of like 'any son of Adam' :

('Behold, birds have nests to rest in, and foxes go to their holes, but the sons of men (or 'the son of man', meaning, 'mankind') have no natural place to rest their heads..') &tc.

The prophetic angle is also added to 'Bar Enasha' by way of the paleoHebrew found in the Scroll of the Book of the Prophet Hezekial where ben-adam is used in the texts ('Son of Adam', i.e. son of man') when YHWH or an angel is addressing Hezekiel himself to go forth and utter an oracle or do a thing like shave off a 1/3 of his beard or something weird to make a point.

So we also have to see Bar Enasha in a prophetical light as well as in a daviddic kingly light...we remember phrases such as we find in the 3rd canonical gospel ('according to Luke' whoever he was) 'and he set his face like flint towards the holy city, for he said: 'behold, it is un-thinkable that a Prophet should ever die outside of the gates of Yerushalayim...'

A phrase showing that according to the 3rd canonical Greek gospel, 'Iesous' seems to have referred to himself as a 'prophet'. In other places he calls himself The Teacher (Aram. haMoreh):

'..and there you will see a Donkey tied, and you will bring it to me here: if any son of man should say, Why are you stealing that donkey? say to him, The Teacher has need of it and will return it when he has finished borrowing (i.e. stealing) it...'

There is also the discussion in the Greek canonical 'synoptic' gospels pertaining to his own self-identity:

'And 'Iesous' said to the 12, Whom do the sons of men say that the bar Enasha is?' and they answered saying, 'some call you The Prophet who is to come (i.e. in the Book of Numbers), others say that you are Yohnanon bar Zechariah raised from the dead, and others say that you are one of the prophets...'

And he said to Shimeon bar Yonah 'But Shimeon, whom do YOU say the Bar-Enasha is? and Shimeon answered saying, 'You are the Messiah, the son of the Living EL !' and Iesous said to him, 'Blessed are you, Shimeon bar Yonah, for Flesh and Blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven has revealed this thing to you !'

The 'son of the Living EL' was of course a title of the Daviddic clan-chiefs (=petty kings), cf: "Thou art my Son, this day I have begotten Thee.."

which is part of an ancient Canaanite crowing-ceremony used in Daviddic coronations, and thus has 'kingly' overtones...i.e. the Davvids being honorary sons of the clan god YHWH as long as they did his 'will' while on the throne....

So all these various messianic titles sort of wrap around each other as they were applied to R. Yehoshua 'in the last days' e.g. ...teacher, prophet, king with a kingdom, son of man, son of EL &tc.

I trust all this information is not new to anyone on this thread !



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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The man is dead. If you are not going to imitate his life as so many choose to do either very well or terribly so ...Can you at least let him rest in peace?



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by radarloveguy
Performing miracles is power that only comes from God .
Only true prophets have that power.


This is not true. Jesus tells us that devils have power to preform "miracles"



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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Opps double post.. sorry.. that's what happens when your cat is crawling all over your keyboard.

[edit on 15-12-2009 by JohnPhoenix]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by Sigismundus
 



I trust all this information is not new to anyone on this thread !


This is great stuff.


Also however, you forgot to take into consideration the one who Iesous loved thought he was

Luke 9:20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.

Just a little tidbit of info if I may



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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Jesus, the common man undertook a 'mission' for his life at an early age, being self-taught he sought to become the Torah predicted Leader/Teacher who would become a pathway to the Tribal Diety/G-d/El...


the Jesus person in his 'Virtual World' then became 'the annointed' as laid out in old testament prophecy...

Jesus aka Christ, used philosophic spin, cloudy wording, descriptions of himself & his self-appointed Mission, which were dilemmas wrought with complexity and paradox...

the alleged 'accounts' of miracles remain just that, unproven except for the recounting by the bevy of undereducated 'disciples' he surrounded himself with...


the man Jesus, did a super-great personality shift & performed the consumate acting role of history/legend.
I tip my hat to the man,
a self credentuled 'Rabbi', who spoke in riddles out of need -
but knew just what he was evading with his less than forthright responses.

The elites in the era of Constantine were the one's who actually resurrected the figure Jesus-Christ (so the 3 days in the tomb actually translates to 3 & 1/2 hundred years)


those with a fierce belief in the redemer-savior, will just think i have blasphemed & am now condemmed to hades...
~save your flames~



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by TinFoilHatMan55
 

John recorded Jesus as saying to the Jews, "...if you believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24

[edit on 10/12/09 by troubleshooter]


I think in the above verse Jesus was talking about his authenticity not divinity. Correct me if I am wrong.



Some contemporaries called Him a prophet...
...but Jesus never claimed the title of 'prophet'.


Well a Prophet is the word of God and he just claims to be it on several occasions.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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Hi Oliveoil--

It is always interesting to compare-across the various canonical gospels the same saying as it appears in different forms

the 2nd Gospel 'Mark' states in Greek (translated back into Aramaic then English here): 'You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living EL' (KJV paraphrases the Greek into something like, 'You are the Christ (Gk hoChristos) the Son of the Living (Gk tou Theou) God')

the 3rd Gospel ('Luke' whoever he was) states 'You are the Messiah of EL' KJV has it roughly, 'You are the Christ of God'

And you can do this exercise for all the sayings, nearly 500 of them and add the gospel of Thomas and other non-canonical gospels into different columns - it will really show you the variations between the different theologies of the different gospel-writers (whoever they were in life).

As for the 'beloved disciple' do you really think Shimeon bar Yonah (ha Kephah aka ho Petros = Simon Peter ) was the actual 'disciple whom Iesous loved' as referred to in the 4th Greek canonical gospel?

The Eleazar narrative ('Lazarus' pericope) in the 4th gospel ('John') we read: 'Rabbi, behold, the Disciple WHOM YOU LOVE is Dead...'

Which seems to point to Eleazar / Lazarus as the 'beloved Disciple' (who in the 4th Canonical Greek Gospel is listed as the brother of Miryam and Martha) - but we do not see this 'disciple' listed among the '12' - perhaps he was one of the 70 apostoloi sent out two by two to pre-announce the arrival of The Teacher in Eretz Yisro'el during the ministry, who knows...


Here is a translation from the Greek of Eusebeius quoting a letter of Papias the Bishop of Hieropolis in Egypt and a companion of Polycarp who knew 'John the Elder' (of 1,2 and 3 John fame) c. 140 CE

'First I always inquire as to the actual LOGOI (words, i.e. sayings, oracels) of the Elders that is, what Andreas actually said, or what Kephah (Peter) said, or what Philip said, or what Thomah or Yakkov (James) or what Yohanon (John) or Matathiah (Matthew) or any other of the disciples of the Master said.

And as for the things which the OTHER of the Master's disciples said, that is the words of Aristion and the John the Elder, who also were disciples of the Lord, and what they were saying. For I considered that I should not get so much advantage from matter in books as from the living voice of a person who still remains (with us)."

All this makes one wonder who Aristion was....maybe this Aristion was the beloved disciple ! There is just so much we do not know about the earliest Nazorean Christianities that sprang up in the late 1st and early 2nd century CE....

[edit on 15-12-2009 by Sigismundus]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread525873/pg1#pid7691167]post by TinFoilHatMan55[

There are a couple of things I would like to address . First of all, if he wasn't the One why did his closest followers scatter across the globe to preach he was often finding a violent end to their lives and never did they say "ya know you are right , I would rather live , he isn't the Messiah?

Why did the Jews have him killed if he didn't say he was the One .?

Why did Roman soldiers give him a crown of thorns if he didn't proclaim he was the One ?

I can probably take quotes from the bible and make you think John the Baptist was the messiah but that's not the story if you read it fully .
This is a poor attempt to manipulate the weak minded .



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by TinFoilHatMan55
 

John recorded Jesus as saying to the Jews, "...if you believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24

Some contemporaries called Him a prophet...
...but Jesus never claimed the title of 'prophet'.

Believe like the Jews if you will who didn't recognize their own Messiah...
...but be prepared to meet the same fate as they.



[edit on 10/12/09 by troubleshooter]


OR .... know what you are talking about before you make a disclaimer for Jesus being a Jew.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Hosea 8:8 is clearly defining what happened to the house of Israel (Ephraim) ... they were scattered into the bloodlines of the Gentiles ...

Jeremiah 31:27 also speaks of this along with something else ... the house of Judah too, save a remnant, would be swallowed up into the gene pools of the world.

Isaiah is clear, as I already said that a remnant of the house of Judah would stay pure ...

Then ... when Jesus says that he came for the lost sheep of Israel as well as he was CLEARLY teaching the Jewish People of what HAD happened and was about to happen according to the prophets' testimonies, you should understand what it is he meant when he said in John 4:22 that it is the JEWS AND NOT THE CHRISTIANS who know what they worship and that salvation (for the people to whom it applied and does even still apply) is of the Jews.

Jesus was not enlightened to the founder of Christianity's teachings ... he was Jewish and even confirmed that it is the JEWISH SCRIPTURES he was enlightening his own to ...

Then, if you knew our Scriptures, you would CLEARLY know that Jesus was not claiming to be God in the passage that you are speaking ... the Tanach says that there was to come a time when all those of the People, Israel (the Son of God according to Exodus 4:22), would experience the same thing that Jesus (and other rabbis at that time) were experiencing .. even if they previously never even knew they were of the People.

Then HOsea 6:1-2



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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OH and BTW ... the Messiah for the People is us ... the People, Israel; and our Saviour is HaShem.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 05:34 PM
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Hi Just a momma--

You are aware, aren't you, that the Greek words placed into the mouth of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk. 'Iesous') in the 4th Canonical gospel ('john' whoever he was) in chapter 4:21f is a mistranslation of the Aramaic verse he is quoting as a proof text from the 'Scroll of the Book of the Testament of the 12 Patriarchs being the Sons of Israel in the Last Days' from Cave 4 of the Dead Sea Scrolls, specifically the Testament of Naphtali chapter 9:13 which reads:

'Behold in the Latter Days, the Salvation of Israel (i.e. in the north)
shall come from the Judaeans (i.e. in the south)'

referring to the time of the Assyrian invasion of the northern kingdom in 722 BCE which led 3/4 of the population to run south to Judaea, at a time (BCE 722 to BCE 701) when the population of Jerusalem more than quintupled according to the archaeological findings in the area.

The Aramaic text that was mis quoted and mangled into the Garbled Greek Speaking Mouth of R. Yehoshua in the 4th Canonical gospel has NOTHING to do with salvation of people (especially goyim/gentiles/non Jews) in general, but everything to do with the sanctity (in the minds of the writers) of Judah as the proper place from whence the 'divine' protection of YHWH for ISRAEL should arise.

We all know that the Testament of the 12 Patriarchs is a Pseudipigraphical book written c. BCE 140 in Aramaic, purporting to have the words of the Hebrew speaking son of Yakkov/Yisro'el by the name of "Naphtali' giving his 'death bed testament' i.e. alleged prophecies of what life for Israel will be like in the centuries ahead (all written after the fact, but that was the style of the Testaments of the Patriarchs Scrolls which was part of the the Hebrew Scriptures' canon before the Council of Rebbes at Javneh in c. 90 CEvoted these extra-canonical Jewish scriptures out as 'not holy enough to defile the hands...'

The Greek quotation-paraphrase placed into the mouth of the greek-speaking R. Yehoshua in the 4th Canonical gospel omits any reference to 'Yisroel' - so the editors of the 4th gospel (in the later MSS that we read today at any rate from the 4th century onwards of this canoncial Greek Gospel) were clearly trying to make their hero more universal and less Judaeic-oriented as he certainly was in history in Palestine (BCE 12 to CE 36):

'You (Sammaratim) worship what you are not familar with, but we (Judaeans) worship that which we are familiar with, FOR [it is written], The Salvation [of Israel] shall come from the Judaeans.'

The fact that the word GAR (Gk for 'because' or 'for) shows that he is quoting a text as a proof text in an argument, pseudo-Rabinnical fashion.

The phrase used to flag a Quotation from the Hebrew Scriptures is normally 'FOR IT IS WRITTEN' or EVEN AS IT IS WRITTEN as we see in the canonical 1st Greek Gospel ('Matthew' whoever he was) but the Greek texts of the Gospels we read today in Greek come in copies made AFTER the council of Nicaea when the texts of the 4 canonical gospels were cleaned up and 'orthodoxed' (to use a phrase of Bart Erhman !) so that any references to non-canonical old testament or new testament books (not voted into the canon) were not explicitly framed in the final copies...

Where the whole point of the pericope in the 4th canonical gospel ('John') is that the safety and protection of the northern tribelets shall come from the southern tribelets where the 'true' Temple of YHWH resides (Iesous was an alleged Daviddic descendant from the tribe of Yehudah who naturally offered sacrifices at the 2nd Herodian Temple at Jerusalem, addressing a Sammaritan of the 'northern part of Eretz Yisro'el', whose temple at Mt Gerazim was razed to the ground (they used to worship by praying there, but not sacrificing animals) a group which had broken off in a schism over the location of the true-temple of YHWH i.e. Mt Gerazim (as it states in the SamPent) v. Mt Zion (as it states in the Vorlage to the LXX and the ProtoMT texts) an event which took place back in the 400s after the Babylonian Exile of BCE 587-520).

Clear as mud?



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by Sigismundus
Hi Just a momma--

You are aware, aren't you, that the Greek words placed into the mouth of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk. 'Iesous') in the 4th Canonical gospel ('john' whoever he was) in chapter 4:21f is a mistranslation of the Aramaic verse he is quoting as a proof text from the 'Scroll of the Book of the Testament of the 12 Patriarchs being the Sons of Israel in the Last Days' from Cave 4 of the Dead Sea Scrolls, specifically the Testament of Naphtali chapter 9:13 which reads:

'Behold in the Latter Days, the Salvation of Israel (i.e. in the north)
shall come from the Judaeans (i.e. in the south)'

referring to the time of the Assyrian invasion of the northern kingdom in 722 BCE which led 3/4 of the population to run south to Judaea, at a time (BCE 722 to BCE 701) when the population of Jerusalem more than quintupled according to the archaeological findings in the area.

The Aramaic text that was mis quoted and mangled into the Garbled Greek Speaking Mouth of R. Yehoshua in the 4th Canonical gospel has NOTHING to do with salvation of people (especially goyim/gentiles/non Jews) in general, but everything to do with the sanctity (in the minds of the writers) of Judah as the proper place from whence the 'divine' protection of YHWH for ISRAEL should arise.

We all know that the Testament of the 12 Patriarchs is a Pseudipigraphical book written c. BCE 140 in Aramaic, purporting to have the words of the Hebrew speaking son of Yakkov/Yisro'el by the name of "Naphtali' giving his 'death bed testament' i.e. alleged prophecies of what life for Israel will be like in the centuries ahead (all written after the fact, but that was the style of the Testaments of the Patriarchs Scrolls which was part of the the Hebrew Scriptures' canon before the Council of Rebbes at Javneh in c. 90 CEvoted these extra-canonical Jewish scriptures out as 'not holy enough to defile the hands...'

The Greek quotation-paraphrase placed into the mouth of the greek-speaking R. Yehoshua in the 4th Canonical gospel omits any reference to 'Yisroel' - so the editors of the 4th gospel (in the later MSS that we read today at any rate from the 4th century onwards of this canoncial Greek Gospel) were clearly trying to make their hero more universal and less Judaeic-oriented as he certainly was in history in Palestine (BCE 12 to CE 36):

'You (Sammaratim) worship what you are not familar with, but we (Judaeans) worship that which we are familiar with, FOR [it is written], The Salvation [of Israel] shall come from the Judaeans.'

The fact that the word GAR (Gk for 'because' or 'for) shows that he is quoting a text as a proof text in an argument, pseudo-Rabinnical fashion.

The phrase used to flag a Quotation from the Hebrew Scriptures is normally 'FOR IT IS WRITTEN' or EVEN AS IT IS WRITTEN as we see in the canonical 1st Greek Gospel ('Matthew' whoever he was) but the Greek texts of the Gospels we read today in Greek come in copies made AFTER the council of Nicaea when the texts of the 4 canonical gospels were cleaned up and 'orthodoxed' (to use a phrase of Bart Erhman !) so that any references to non-canonical old testament or new testament books (not voted into the canon) were not explicitly framed in the final copies...

Where the whole point of the pericope in the 4th canonical gospel ('John') is that the safety and protection of the northern tribelets shall come from the southern tribelets where the 'true' Temple of YHWH resides (Iesous was an alleged Daviddic descendant from the tribe of Yehudah who naturally offered sacrifices at the 2nd Herodian Temple at Jerusalem, addressing a Sammaritan of the 'northern part of Eretz Yisro'el', whose temple at Mt Gerazim was razed to the ground (they used to worship by praying there, but not sacrificing animals) a group which had broken off in a schism over the location of the true-temple of YHWH i.e. Mt Gerazim (as it states in the SamPent) v. Mt Zion (as it states in the Vorlage to the LXX and the ProtoMT texts) an event which took place back in the 400s after the Babylonian Exile of BCE 587-520).

Clear as mud?



Quite. My thought is, leave Jesus right where they put him ... those who care to know the truth will know the truth ... I find it to be a rather strange filter; strange considering that was never the intent (or was it?
)

It is true ... the Greek mentality heavily influenced the NT, HOWEVER ... not all who have been brought up in Christianity are Greek minded ... then, it is not enough to be told what to think and if one has THE love for Torah, something MUCH different is seen. Did he speak in parables or was he perhaps part of the parable himself ???


to each his own!



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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I believe that Jesus was a prophet of God too. And he performed miracles... But the trinity doctrine is a fabricated myth.

The funny thing is, these things are all major tenants of Islam. Muslims believe that Jesus was a true messenger of God, along with Moses, Abraham, etc.

There's a lot of similarities between some of the non-orthodox Christians and Muslims, when you push the propaganda aside.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by killuminati2012
I believe he existed and was a prophet, but I don't believe he is one and the same with God.

Do you mean to say you believe he was a prophet AND a liar?
Because the problem with which you are confronted, perhaps unknowingly, is Jesus said he was God. He said he and the Father are one. He said if you see him, you see the father. He said: "Before Abraham was, I AM." Jewish leaders of the day knew that was what he claimed and that is why they accused him of the high crime of blasphamy.
So where does this leave you?



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