Flight 11 hijacked before take-off?

You are being fed disinfo....

To say it like I'm thinking it...Your just damn wrong. Nothing but.


During my career with the gov I have personally been on airfield security detail and TALKED with fighter Pilots who TOLD me theirselves thats what they do.

I KNOW this is a fact and I KNOW it continues to this very day. Anyone...and I mean anyone who says it don't is either lying or does not know.

Deny ignorance, not ignorance in denial

I agree. You can tell those who are ignorant in denial because they are typcially the ones who refuse to consider anything except their OS stance. In their world, if it isn;t in the OS then they can't stand it and everything is a conspiracy to them.

These types would argue with their tail if they were dogs, telling it to stop chasing them around all the while unable to see that if they stopped going in circles then the problem would solve itself.



[edit on 5-1-2010 by mikelee]

reply to post by mikelee


Okay, while I know that our pilots will use buildings on the ground to practice running attacks (normally warehouses/barns). To the best of my knowledge whenever they practice air intercepts on airliner style aircraft, its normally a military jet (KC-135) and they take great pains to avoid civilian airliners. ESPECIALLY after 9/11/01...wouldnt want a passenger to look out and see a F-16 following them.

READ THIS POST - RESEARCH -

WEEDWHACKER SAID....
A "wargame" scenario will never be confused with reality. This is an idea that comes straight from Hollywood fantasy movies....

You're confusing reality with your fantasy. research before you spout out your ramblings in attempt to mislead the researcher. You are wrong yet again.

9/11: Real World or Exercise?

At least five exercises were in operation in the days leading up to and on 9/11.
1) Operation Northern Vigilance.
2) Biowarfare Exercise Tripod II.
3) Operation Vigilant Guardian.
4) Operation Northern Guardian.
5) Operation Vigilant Warrior.

The exercises caused great confusion during the 9/11 attacks.


9/11 Flight Controller: "Is this real world or exercise?"

WMV video download (95kB)whatreallyhappened.com...

"First thing that went through my mind was, 'Is this part of the exercise? Is this some kind of a screw-up?'" said Air Force Maj. Gen. Larry Arnold, who was at a command center at the Tyndall Air Force Base in Florida.

abcnews.go.com...

Sgt. Jeremy W. Powell of North American Aerospace Defense Command's (Norad) Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) in Rome, N.Y., took the first call from Boston Center. He notified NEADS commander Col. Robert K. Marr, Jr., of a possible hijacked airliner, American Airlines Flight 11. "Part of the exercise?" the colonel wondered. No; this is a real-world event, he was told.

s3.amazonaws.com...

At 8:40, Deskins noticed senior technician Jeremy Powell waving his hand. Boston Center was on the line, he said. It had a hijacked airplane. "It must be part of the exercise," Deskins thought. At first, everybody did.

www.newhousenews.com...

As you know through previous testimony from Gen. Eberhart to Congress, we were in the middle of a NORAD exercise at that particular time. Which means, that basically our entire staff was focused on being able to do the air operations center mission, which was our job to do. We had just come out of a video teleconference with the NORAD staff and with our folks at that particular time when I was handed note that we had a possible hijacking in Boston Center. And it had come from the Northeast Air Defense Commander Col. Bob Meyer (phonetic) who is commander up there and he had requested that I call him immediately. And I was upstairs in our facility. I immediately went downstairs and picked up the phone, asking on the way to my staff, is this part of the exercise? Because quite honestly and frankly, we do do hijacking scenarios as we go through these exercises from time-to-time. But I realized that it was not – that this was real-life

permanent.access.gpo.gov...

Also see War Games: The Key to a 9/11 USAF Stand Down
LINK


[edit on 5-1-2010 by Shadow Herder]

RE: the crushing force of the weight of the builldings. Ventura did bring up that the boxes had been found miles deep in the ocean before, intact. That's pretty heavy.

The problem I have with the passports on the sidewalks is the same problem I had with we knew it was him because we found the tag just fell off the truck.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by mikelee

 

Okay, while I know that our pilots will use buildings on the ground to practice running attacks (normally warehouses/barns). To the best of my knowledge whenever they practice air intercepts on airliner style aircraft, its normally a military jet (KC-135) and they take great pains to avoid civilian airliners. ESPECIALLY after 9/11/01...wouldnt want a passenger to look out and see a F-16 following them.

You just said what I did Swampy. Thats why I stated that the jets wouldn't be in view of the airliners. Same thing but different way of saying it. Intercepts are different from what I'm talking baout, I'm referring to "painting" a target. You know?

That does not mean the fighter jets are anywhere near the airliner but they (fighter pilots) will & do use commercial airliners as "un-friendlys" to practice for a variety of aerial combat aspects.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by mikelee]

reply to post by mikelee


We wont even paint a civilian airplane. Heaven forbid a pain in the backside journalist hear about it and splash it all over a newspaper

"US AIR FORCE PRACTICES SHOOTING DOWN CIVILIAN AIRCRAFT"

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


I understand the thinking and reasoning there 100%, no disagreement on that at all. I still know its done as regular training.

I guess its nice to be able to disagree uh?

reply to post by mikelee


Well...let me just say, irrespective of all this discussion about "wargames" and any other simulations, along with whatever training scenarios are regularly employed by acitve duty, or reserve USAF and ANG pilots, since I AM a civilian, always have been, I have no experience with such.

However, I HAVE flown for various companies, starting with smaller commuter-type airlines, until getting into the "big leagues" at a major, where I spent 22 years. NEVER was I involved in any of these sorts of 'scenarios', nor did I ever encounter a fellow civilian pilot who had, at least in casual conversation (and we have a lot of time to converse, trust me...)

So, I must beg off on this, having no direct knowledge. My gut tells me, though, that it's being overblown, by some of the conspiracy sites.

Just my opinion.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

typos...

[edit on 5 January 2010 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by mikelee

 

Well...let me just say, irrespective of all this discussion about "wargames" and any other simulations, along with whatever training scenarios are regularly employed by acitve duty, or reserve USAF and ANG pilots, since I AM a civilian, always have been, I have no experience with such...

[edit on 5 January 2010 by weedwhacker]

Then you should quit coming to these threads and spouting out opinions and passing them as fact WeedWhacker. So far many of your claims have been either opinion or fabrication and proven false.

You claim that the fact that on 911 there were wargames that simulated hijacked aircraft using real aircraft was something out of "hollywood fantasy" has been proven to be not a fantasy but reality.

I have provided sources that link to official sources that claim that on 911 certain agencies did not react as usual considering the fact that they believed that it was just "part of the exercise"

READ MY above post to review the links and information. Thank you.

To answer the thread's question.......

......of course Flight 11 was hijacked before takeoff. It was all part of the exercise.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by Shadow Herder]

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Problem you have, sir or madam, is that you do NOT understand what you read, and I do, even looking at the few of your cited sources that actually work.

I do NOT have to be a military pilot to understand what military pilots mean, what they say, and to get the gist (IF they're quoted correctly in the first place...)

You see, many, many times the reporter writing the story is a layperson, and just doesn't write in the way that is properly conveyed....oh, it SOUNDS good to other laypeople, but THAT'S the Problem!!! It gets misinterpreted.

Look....it's very simple to understand....even a simulation like "Vigilant Guardian" that may have coincidentally been taking place that morning would have a THOROUGH briefing beforehand, to include ALL the details, the "fake" flight numbers, etc, etc, etc....

In any case, despite all of the "conspiracy websites" and their disinfo, it would behoove people to do some real research into the REAL "vigilant Guardian" exercises planned for 11 September...they involved intrusions into US airspace, NOT hijackings conducted from within our borders...

Russian jets have penetrated North American airspace during previous NORAD exercises, and Colonel Robert Marr, the commander of NORAD’s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS), has prepared for them to do so again during the current exercise. If this happens, armed US fighter jets will intercept the Russian aircraft and escort them back to their own territory.

www.historycommons.org...


The purpose of those practices is, well...practice. And communication procedures, and all the pieces that need to fit together IN THE EVENT that a real scenario were to come down.

That is why pilots train so often, doing things that don't normally happen every flight, to hone skills for the once in a lifetime (if that often) it happens.

Like I said, when it comes to the DETAILS of what military pilots brief on, along with the others who are party to the simulations, THAT is best left to others to describe.

BUT, my point is, it was a MILITARY exercise, pure and simple. The events, that is, the hijackings and the slow response (cue a bit of disbelief, at first, combined with the desire not to over-react, just in case there was some other explanation) by the civilian ATC personnel was perfectly in line with how it actually works, in the real world.

Some of you very own cited sources show this to be the case...it's only the hyperbole that causes this hysteria, and that is whipped up by the conspiracy sites....and some people fall for it, because they simply do not know any better....

reply to post by Shadow Herder

....of course Flight 11 was hijacked before takeoff. It was all part of the exercise.

NO!

It just does NOT work that way, never did then, never does now.

The only people who wish to believe such nonsense have NO IDEA about the actual workings of the real airline business.

It is fantasy. Live, regularly scheduled commercial passenger flights do NOT "participate" in any 'mock hijacking' scenarios, as this thread is attempting to convey.

Not sure how else to explain it....it just does NOT happen!!!!

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Shadow Herder

 

Problem you have, sir or madam, is that you do NOT understand what you read, and I do, even looking at the few of your cited sources that actually work.

I do NOT have to be a military pilot to understand what military pilots mean, what they say, and to get the gist (IF they're quoted correctly in the first place...)

You see, many, many times the reporter writing the story is a layperson, and just doesn't write in the way that is properly conveyed....oh, it SOUNDS good to other laypeople, but THAT'S the Problem!!! It gets misinterpreted.

So you are going to interpret what a reporter meant to say because you would know better than someone who is paid to write, what they should have written? Can you explain?

Look....it's very simple to understand....even a simulation like "Vigilant Guardian" that may have coincidentally been taking place that morning would have a THOROUGH briefing beforehand, to include ALL the details, the "fake" flight numbers, etc, etc, etc....

According to...?

In any case, despite all of the "conspiracy websites" and their disinfo, it would behoove people to do some real research into the REAL "vigilant Guardian" exercises planned for 11 September...they involved intrusions into US airspace, NOT hijackings conducted from within our borders...

So if it fits your OS, someone is mistaken. If it does not fit your OS, then their is no way there would have been mistakes?

Russian jets have penetrated North American airspace during previous NORAD exercises, and Colonel Robert Marr, the commander of NORAD’s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS), has prepared for them to do so again during the current exercise. If this happens, armed US fighter jets will intercept the Russian aircraft and escort them back to their own territory.

www.historycommons.org...


The purpose of those practices is, well...practice. And communication procedures, and all the pieces that need to fit together IN THE EVENT that a real scenario were to come down.

You still have not shown at all how this could not have been mistaken for what was happening or vice/versa. You just say what you think a lot. There were excercises involving hijackings and you know it.

Based on interviews with FBI officials, the New Yorker will report that, for several years prior to 9/11, the US government plans for “simulated terrorist attacks, including scenarios [involving] multiple-plane hijackings.” This presumably refers to more than just the Amalgam Virgo 02 exercise (see July 2001), which is based on the scenario of two planes being simultaneously hijacked. [New Yorker, 9/24/2001] Similarly, NORAD will state that before 9/11, it normally conducts four major exercises each year at headquarters level. Most of them include a hijack scenario, and some of them are apparently quite similar to the 9/11 attacks

source

That is why pilots train so often, doing things that don't normally happen every flight, to hone skills for the once in a lifetime (if that often) it happens.

So they train often but not enough for it to have been able to be confused with what was happening that day? Which is it?

Like I said, when it comes to the DETAILS of what military pilots brief on, along with the others who are party to the simulations, THAT is best left to others to describe.

and yet, the first half of your post is just that - a description of every detail you believe they cover. Why say you do not know, then tell us how it works, then repeat that someone else can speak better of it?

BUT, my point is, it was a MILITARY exercise, pure and simple. The events, that is, the hijackings and the slow response (cue a bit of disbelief, at first, combined with the desire not to over-react, just in case there was some other explanation) by the civilian ATC personnel was perfectly in line with how it actually works, in the real world.

Some of you very own cited sources show this to be the case...it's only the hyperbole that causes this hysteria, and that is whipped up by the conspiracy sites....and some people fall for it, because they simply do not know any better....

hysteria?

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Reading comprehension is flawed, apparently.

I see many of the responses made, as my post was parsed and dissected, and the comments are seemingly unrelated to what I wrote!!!

In any event, the very sources cited, regarding NORAD and NEADS exercises, clearly show that they were "imaginary", they did not involve actual, regularly scheduled passenger airliners in any way. (With the possible exception that, unknown to the flight crew, SOMEONE might randomly look at a radar screen, and say "Let's imagine THAT one is hijacked." It is an internal NORAD exercise, and doesn't, by that logic, suggest or prove any sort of civilian commercial aviation participation. THIS is the illogic of this particular argument, and it is puzzling why people believe it so readily, when it isn't even in the data being cited as "proof").

MY only guess is people have an unreasonable interpretation, and what THEY think actually happens is more in line with Hollywood fictional accounts, and less real-world accurate.


But, finally --- it has been buried in the other nonsense, this simple fact:

THE premise of this thread, "Flight 11 hijacked before take-off" is patently ridiculous.

Why?

Well, let's discuss this. IF you wish to foster that scenario, then one would have to assume, wouldn't one, that there were persons in the cockpit, BEFORE take-off, in addition to the two regular pilot crewmembers, right?

Is that a fair statement?

Now then, please, someone who believes this, show the proof of those persons, from the weight and balance paperwork. BECAUSE it is an FAR regulation that the paperwork for any "additional crewmembers" (that's sometimes the term used, varies) be included and verified. Show us.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
MY only guess is people have an unreasonable interpretation, and what THEY think actually happens is more in line with Hollywood fictional accounts, and less real-world accurate.

Kind of like the official story, people go along with what the have been told happened instead of thinking for themselves and looking for the truth.

It is worth noting that on 9/11 airport security (and the 2005 London bombings) was handled by foreign companies - including one operating from the Netherlands (ICTS). The same firm is now at the center of a new "terrorist" debacle:

See what these Israeli media sources say, it is worth exploring in the context of this "failed attack"

Israeli firm blasted for letting would-be plane bomber slip through
Haaretz

Israeli Firm Responsible for Amsterdam Airport Security Where Terrorist Boarded Aircraft
link

[edit on 10-1-2010 by gouryella]