Dumbfounded Over Recent Mars Threads...

Originally posted by stanlee

Bottom line is this question: Who is the bigger idiot? the people with engineering degrees, that spot certain strange 'structures' on Mars, or the people that claim NASA Lies, but follow anyway. To me the answer is OBVIOUSLY clear.

Why are you talking about "people with engineering degrees"?

And the way you say it makes it look like the "people with engineering degrees" does not include any of those "that claim NASA Lies, but follow anyway".

Was that just a strange choice of words?

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
Ok, after reading through the mindless drivel in various threads from certain members on ATS regarding "alien structures" on Mars, I have to ask a very serious question because I am truly finding it hard to believe that people in this day and age, with all the educational information at our fingertips, would arrive at the conclusion that OBVIOUS geological formations might have been created by Martians...

My question is, could there possibly be a government element working behind the scenes to completely discredit Ufology as a whole? I can see no other explanation when I read such complete irrational thought. I see nothing more than a blatant attempt to undermine real research in the UFO field by these types of people.

Or am I just expecting to much intelligence from my fellow man?

I agree. Some of these recent threads remind me of the "Moon Human" guy on youtube. See for yourself, Doowop62 has more of these amazing sightings on the 'tube.

Moon Humans

I tend to steer away from responding to the troglodytes who attack ones slight spelling mistakes in place of attacking the facts or the subject at hand. Until you earn a response from someone like myself, you will be ignored.

A lot of folks in this thread raise some very good issues, and to clarify, I wasn't singling out Moon and Mars anomaly threads as a whole, I was referring to a handful of individuals who as of late have taken it upon themselves to see buildings in areas of obvious geological formations. Even when these "buildings" have been debunked with FACTUAL scientific data, the same individuals keep oozing brain poo.

I have seen a few images over the years of things on the surface of the moon which have raised an eyebrow or two, the "shard" for example, or the numerous tall structures which may have been blurred by NASA. These are the ones that peak my interest, the types of things that stick out like a swore thumb in a sea of rock and dust. It's when people begin pointing out EVERY SINGLE little geological formation as being "alien" I begin to question the authors true intent and intelligence.

reply to post by Jocko Flocko


Actually, i don't see at all what's wrong with your OP: you are raising a legitimate question, and despite my english is poor i think i understood your points.
I will say it in the poor words that my poor english allows me to use what i mean. If one spots something interesting, or out of the ordinary, or geometric and so on, then beforehand we must know the criteria used in order to call it "anomaly". If one looks at some Mars image for the first time in his life, he would probably spot something that looks to his eyes artificial: in good faith. This is what everyone of those involved in this type of research do firstly, ME included.
After getting trained, you will be able to recognize ordinary geological formations: and no, there's no need to be an engineer, nor a geologist in order to be able to call a ROCK a ROCK, plain and simple.
What really one needs is time and efforts, and to use reason, logic and common sense. If one starts with the precondition that there's something out of the ordinary and that those bad guys from nasa are paid for hiding the truth rather than doing serious research, here comes monkeys and crocodiles in every Mars image. Many people use NASA images in order to "prove" that there's something out of the ordinary: the same people often blame NASA of tampering with images: so basically they are using a fake tool (according to themselves) in order to make their point, there's no need to be a rocket scientist in order to realize that this is a CRAZY way to proceed. One should at least decide where to side, before starting a battle.
Look, on December 2007 i've made a slideshow



i thought they were all anomalies: now i think that at least the half of them are natural formations. In the meantime, no NASA bad guys nor men in black came to visit me: I have realized that nature can do that. Is that an improvement? Or a step back? Whatever it is, I did it, regardless what NASA bad guys say and conspiracionists say. It is never a bad idea to use your brain, if you are so lucky to own one.

reply to post by Jocko Flocko



Dude, listen, you are just gonna have to accept that sometimes people on drugs have opinions too!!


I agree with you 100%, people will always see what they wanna see & then argue their case.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko

Or am I just expecting to much intelligence from my fellow man?

this is ATS... dont act so shocked

the mars threads are nothing compared to the rubbish in the 'prophecy' forum...

seriously a 'prediction and prophecy' forum; if anything its one way to entertain yourself while you drink your morning coffee.

i just let others share their opinions and 'expert' analysis and i move on-

because ignorance doesn't like to reason - .

you didn't like my topic did you?

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
Ok, after reading through the mindless drivel in various threads from certain members on ATS regarding "alien structures" on Mars, I have to ask a very serious question because I am truly finding it hard to believe that people in this day and age, with all the educational information at our fingertips, would arrive at the conclusion that OBVIOUS geological formations might have been created by Martians...

My question is, could there possibly be a government element working behind the scenes to completely discredit Ufology as a whole? I can see no other explanation when I read such complete irrational thought. I see nothing more than a blatant attempt to undermine real research in the UFO field by these types of people.

Or am I just expecting to much intelligence from my fellow man?

Your fist paragraph is dead on. But you're railing against people who don't know better and are just hoping that their fantasies will be supported by like-thinkers, those who are not familiar with the word "pareidolia" or its meaning.

But then, you jump blindly headlong into irrationality by bringing up, yet again, the unsupported "government element working behind the scenes to completely discredit Ufology as a whole?" So, in reality, with that kind of thinking you're no different than those who see geological formations as "structures," etc. The rest of the second paragraph doesn't support your attempt at trying to sound rational.

I've been a "UFOlogist" since 1957 and at no time have I ever seen "a blatant attempt to undermine real research in the UFO field" or any attempt. This is something that doesn't really exist but is part of the romantic side of UFOlogy. There is no cohesion in UFOlogy, just individuals who think they think alike.

You must be extremely uneducated about mars, in general, for whether or not a rare and unusual geographic formation that mimics everything that is known by scientists to be unusual and those shapes when viewed in aerials over earth are generally used to locate manmade structures, occasionally slips by, I mean I suppose a few of those long odds against might happen once in a while, but how do you account for this if you think mars was always unoccupied, and probably is.

Oh by the way, nature is not so skilled as to create this work of art, but, I know what others will say in advance and can even predict it.

herotwins.hypermart.net...

Re: The Shrike

Actually, I do tend to lean towards the whole "Cosmic Watergate" conspiracy when it comes to the U.F.O. phenomenon and events surrounding incidents over the years, so it's not something I would put past the government in terms of trying to discredit individuals on certain websites in terms of the bigger picture. This doesn't mean I think these posts as of late are in anyway related to this theory. When dealing with these situations I believe ignorance to be the main culprit. I really wouldn't converse on these message boards if I didn't believe in UFO's and "conspiracy's" in one way or the other. I don't think there are folks on this site who's main intentions are to debunk constantly and who wholeheartedly don't believe in the UFO phenomenon, is there? Sad if true...

I guess I was aiming down the path towards a much larger "conspiracy" to discredit Ufology over the years, either caused by government agencies deliberately trying to undermine groups efforts, or caused by the just plain nutty asinine behavior when it comes to UFO lore...


[edit on 11-12-2009 by Jocko Flocko]

[edit on 11-12-2009 by Jocko Flocko]

[edit on 11-12-2009 by Jocko Flocko]

I think you are giving far too much credit to the government. We do a better job discrediting ourselves than they could ever possible imagine. Of course, I am speaking in generalities. Those of us who work to deny ignorance are labeled government disinformation specialists or some such, debunkers, skeptics, etc. - all in a derogatory tone, of course.

I think that we forget that the human mind is incredibly complex. With that, of course, comes problems. There are also issues with eyesight and other issues, certainly. Couple that with a desire to believe and viola, you have the amalgam of the UFO community. I certainly do not mean this in any negative or mean spirited sense.

I've never seen a UFO, but I would like to believe they exist. I would like to believe in alien races visiting Earth. I try to keep an open mind and am certainly open to the idea that a sufficiently advanced race is capable of overcoming the obstacles involved in intergalactic travel, but I just don't have any evidence. There are cases, however, which are very intriguing, I have to admit. But, I personally have no evidence to speak of.

I think we need to keep on persevering in uncovering hoaxes and trying to get to the truth of things, regardless. We need not to fear being called names or being labeled disinfo agents or skeptics or debunkers. We also need to develop patience and discipline in order to effectively deal with those inevitable posts that come our way which we find aggravating and repetitive.

We certainly can never expect to eliminate hoaxes or misunderstandings / misidentifications. I don't think that humanly possible. We just need not fear being called names for trying.

Originally posted by expat2368
I believe there is a concerted effort by the government to cover up the existence of UFOs and any evidence of ancient civilization...on Earth, Mars or the Moon.

I also find it difficult to understand why so many people have a totally closed mind to the possibility of life either current or of ancient civilizations on Mars or anywhere but Earth for that matter.

It you look at the Mars photographs... you see what appears to be a humanoid statue sitting with an outstretched arm. There is the "face" at cydonia, there are the areas where there appear to be huge trees, there are things lying around that are obviously of intelligent design. Those with totally closed minds look at those things and simply cannot accept even the remote possibility that it might just be something done by someone other than the supremely arrogant occupants of planet Earth. I feel sorry for those people. Their ancestors proclaimed the Earth was flat and was the center of the universe among a whole host of other misguided thoughts.
Thankfully there are those who look and question and think for themselves and realize there probably is a world outside the cave our mind is trapped in.

Beliefs do not require evidence so your opening comment, not being supported by irrefutable evidence, holds no water, it's all in your mind.

You may find it difficult to accept that some individuals, me included, do not accept whatsoever the ETH because, again, there is no irrefutable evidence, just speculation.

What you see in photos from Mars and the Moon is simply the result of pareidolia. It has to be that until evidence is provided to support your beliefs.

And, talking about beliefs, humans' worst concept. A belief is a mental construct, it has nothing to do with the world out here. By nature, humans are believers. It takes great effort to stop believing and deal with knowledge. You either know or don't know. Belief is not knowledge, it is wishful thinking.

Starts with a controversial image. Two main groups of people in the public respond to this, skeptics and believers. Most people fall somewhere in between but they're boring and don't count.

Believers come first, almost always. Take, for instance, Richard Hoagland. He writes a paper, puts it online, and in no time at all has a considerable following. Then a skeptical body comes forth, like NASA, and puts out a paper that they say refutes Hoagland's claims. The NASA paper likewise accumulates a considerable following. But it's not done here.

Next, Hoagland submits another revised version of his paper, reinvigorating his fans and the world of believers. NASA doesn't respond. Skeptics maintain that this is because their original piece was sufficient. So the skeptical side perceives no threat. The believer's side perceives no threat.

In the minds of both, each has triumphed over the other.