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Jesse ventura conspiracy theory episode two

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posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Would you mind terribly posting a link to a source that says, "they were only led on a bried tour through the debris"? I'm quoting FEMA's own WTC performance study that says steel was specifically set aside by NYC engineers for them to examine. They go into detail in appendix D on how they collected samples, called "coupons" from steel taken from critical areas for analysis. They even included photographs of the samples they examined- Figure D-16 shows right away how badly the fires messed up one of the perimeter columns. They even show the person examining it!


I was mistaken that the FEMA team itself complained about a lack of evidence; it was a public investigator sent to work with the BPAT and collect as much information as he could for the NSF and UC-Berkeley. He spent a month in NY looking through the landfill site.

He was summoned to report before the House Committee on Science as to what he had learned:


[Astaneh-Asl] I wish I had more time to inspect steel structure and save more pieces before the steel was recycled. However, given the fact that other teams such as NIST, SEAONY and FEMA-BPAT have also done inspection and have collected the perishable data, it seems to me that collectively we may have been able to collect sufficient data. The main impediments to my work were and still are:

1. Not having a copy of the engineering drawings and design and construction documents.
2. Not having copies of the photographs and videotapes that various agencies might have taken during and immediately after the collapse.

...

[Committee] Has the confidential nature of the FEMA's Building Performance Assessment Team investigation made it more difficult to gain access to materials that might be useful, such as private videotapes?

[Astaneh-Asl] I have not been provided with the information made available to the FEMA Building Performance Assessment Team. This includes, videotapes and photographs taken on 9/11and the following days and copies of the engineering drawings. At this time, having the videotapes, photographs and copies of the drawings not only is useful, but also is essential in enabling us to conduct any analysis of the collapse and to formulate conclusions from our effort.


guardian.150m.com...


I don't know what happened with SEAONY, but FEMA and NIST both came out with totally BS reports on the towers that makes their investigations at least negligent, more likely compromised in terms of being able to legitimately investigate the collapses.

And they are keeping thousands of photos and videos, and more importantly the complete structural information to themselves to this day, preventing anyone else from the public of reviewing their work.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by bsbray11]




posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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Wtf? Thank you Jesse Ventura for turning what happened on 9/11 into an episode of "Destination Truth". What was he thinking.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by mike dangerously
Ok,GoodOlDave are the first responders lying about hearing explosions? also,is Chief Tursi a lair as well?

No, Chief Tursi is not a liar. Anyone who insists that the explosions he heard were actual bombs is a liar, becuase HE never says they were actual bombs.

Oh really? I guess GoodOlDave never bothered to read the link I provided, so I'll post the transcript and video again, just for him:

NBC News:


Just moments ago, I spoke to the Chief of Safety for the NYC fire department, Chief Albert Turi. He received word of a possible secondary device -- that is another bomb going off. He tried to get his men out as quickly as he could, but he said there was another explosion which took place and then an hour after the first crash that took place, he said there was another explosion in one of the towers here. He thinks that there were actually devices that were planted in the building. The second device, he thinks, he speculates was planted in the building...

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Pat Dawson, NBC News, 2:40 in:


Statement recorded by FDNY on 12/10/01:


Chief Turi arrived at the WTC just prior to and witnessed the second airplane impact. He entered the North Tower lobby shortly after the second impact, where a temporary command post was located.

Q: Let me stop you there for a second, chief. When you were in the lobby of 1 World Trade, can you describe the interior and the condition of the lobby?

Chief Turi: Yes. I was surprised that all the glass was mostly out. I wasn't sure how it got out. I didn't think we took it out. I just assumed that it was the vibration of the aircraft hitting it. And I did notice some pieces of marble that looked like it was dislodged from the core area. ... [Editor's note: At this point, Chief Turi was in the lobby of the North Tower, approximately 1,100 feet below the airplane's impact point at floors 93 to 98.]

And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out. I later realized that the building had started to collapse already and this was the air being compressed and that is the floor that let go. And as my eyes traveled further up the building, I realized that this building was collapsing ..."

graphics8.nytimes.com...

Whaddaya say now, GoodOlDave? Do you think "exploding fire extinguishers" destroyed blocks of marble and blew out all the plate glass windows in the WTC lobby? (my favorite is Swampy's "exploding cleaning products" theory.)
Is this what you call "claims you conspiracy theorists make turn out to be the exact opposite of the material you're quoting actually says?"

Eagerly awaiting your response.



[edit on 10-12-2009 by GoldenFleece]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
That video is after the 1st tower fell, not minutes more like many many many minutes.. Try and get closer to minutes..


Not that it matters, becuase seeing F-15 fighters in the skies of NYC *at**all* is still irrefutable proof that Ventura's "military stand down order" claim is rubbish.


stand down means to not engage.....you can show up for the party, you just can't play



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Lillydale
I thought the specific statement was "secondary device" and not 'explosion.' Am I wrong?


You are wrong. I am quoting your own link-

"And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out. I later realized that the building had started to collapse already and this was the air being compressed and that is the floor that let go. And as my eyes traveled further up the building, I realized that this building was collapsing ..."

He not only said secondary EXPLOSION, he even identified the secondary explosion as being air compression from the collapse of the building. You are filtering his statements through your own pro-conspiracy bias, here.


and...WHERE..is this "AIR", contained and compressed on a floor with a HUGE impact hole and ALL the windows gone?
...that IS how it works you know....you need to CONTAIN the air BEFORE you can compress it

How do you get the velocity measured in the EQUAL ejections of dust and debris on all 4 sides of each tower when it starts to collapse...the INSTANT the building starts to move?
.....lol......seems to me, what we see happening, need to be created BEFORE there is movement in the building, for it to be ejecting through the outside of the building the INSTANT there is movement.

here is a little experiment YOU can try at home...take a sheet of plywood, hold it over your head, and throw it so it lands flat...

WHEN does the DUST escape from the sides of the plywood?


as SOON as you throw it, or when it's about to hit the ground....inches way

so how do we see the ejection, equally on all 4 sides, BEFORE is is physically possible to create the dust and debris NATURALLY, through FRICTION.

the NIST "worst scenario", of how many vertical support was damaged on the impact floor.....still has over 250, INTACT vertical steel support....and the ONLY explanation of the EVEN release that is physically imposable to occur naturally,


“Since the stories below the level of collapse initiation provided little resistance to the tremendous energy released by the falling building mass, the building section above came down essentially in free fall, as seen in videos.”[NCSTAR 1-6, pp. 416, 238, 196]

"as seen in the videos"....is that the kind of scientific explanation that we deserve?....and WE paid 20 million for that?

WE SEE how quickly the steel cools after the fire leaves, as shown by that poor lady standing in the impact hole, HANGING onto the steel.



*********************************************

FDNY A. Rivera, was sent into WTC3, AFTER the second impact...

he reports MANY explosions, ...first he hears explosions and sees debris and people falling as they pass windows in their evacuation of the Marriott.

Then he starts hearing, seeing, and feeling, the explosions in the building he is in......concussive force knocking them over, tossing them around the hallway, enough to worry them and forcing them to leave, only to get to the 4th floor of the hotel, to find the FIRST three flights of stairs GONE....
NOW.....WHAT blew up the first three flights of stairs in WTC3 ...stairs they went up MOMENTS earlier...

BEFORE ANY TOWER FELL

sourc e



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 07:21 AM
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I never have put any stock in to the fact that the American Government allowed it to happen or planned it. Untill I started to string the answers together and watched The current and former Presidents loot the treasury at lighting speed and not to many people bat an eye...

However I am very interested to know why the black boxes were never released or never found.. I think The Body brought to very good points the Black Box is build of very strong material and from my knowledge has always been recovered where is it?



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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goodoldave,

here's something i know for sure, a friend of mine who opperates barges out of new jersey was one of the first to help carry out the debris, and one thing he did tell me was that he brought his loads to new jersey, and days later, those loads where loaded onto ships headed for China. you can go to the docks in Elizabeth and ask dockers who were there in 2001 and they will tell you the same story.

Now, forget about what alex jones and others claim to have found in the debris. Just tell me this, how did building 7 collapse? no fires no hit...how did the structure weaken? was it because the two planes hit created a tremor in the area?

Also, remember that building in Spain (i think it was spain) that burned for days on end, i think it was 5 days total. the WHOLE building was on fire...nothing happened to that one....but let's not compare it to WTC 1 and 2, but to WTC 7....still doesn't explain how it fell.

There's lots of other facts out there that when the goverment released them made no sense. Like how they had found parts of the manuals in arabic at the hichjakers places....i'll try and find the source for you. But quick news flash...Any manual for any commcercial air liner is thousands of pages, a few hundreds would not do you any good, and here is the best, they are never translated into any languages, they're all in english.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Finn1916
Hey just so everyone knows, that new conspiracy theory show is doing 911 tonight on tru tv, watching it now.


Yeah, I'm watching it now, too. Good GOD this thing is chock full of steaming heaps of horse [censored].

-They kept saying over and over they found traces of explosives in the dust. THERMITE IS NOT AN EXPLOSIVE! It burns really hot...and what they found wasn't even thermite! They found aluminum and iron particles, which Alex Jones is insisting are signs of explosives on his own.

-They put some of this goop on a small I beam to show what it does. THE WTC WASN'T BUILT OUT OF I BEAMS! They had massive four foot by five foot square box columns. Oh, and guess what: the thermite didn't explode. It just went HISS.

-THEN they say, someone could have painted the buoldings without knowing what it was. THEY WOULD NEVER PAINT THE STEEL! The steel was coated with fire retardant foam, and would never be painted. The only thing that would be painted was the dry wall.

-They kept saying how all the steel was immediately shipped overseas and destroyed. WRONG. Eevry girder, every piece of junk, every smashed car they recovered, was all shipped to a field in New Jersey for analysis.

-He just repeated the claim that our air defense was in stand down mode. WRONG. 100,000 New Yorkers saw fighter jets arriving over the skies of Manhattan only minutes after the strikes, and even the news cameras picked them up.

-NOW, he's hyping up Northwoods, claiming that the plan was to attack US cities as a false flag operation to frame Cuba- WRONG. It was set up *not* to cause any casualties. The plan was to keep people alive to make them witnesses to the supposed Cuban aggression.

-Then there's the thing that pisses me off the most- Ventura says the gov't "gave us all this garbage about how the WTC fell", while flashing the cover of the 9/11 Commission report. THE REPORT NEVER DISCUSSED HOW THE TOWERS FELL. It was to document who was behind the attack and how it was carried out, not the physical progression of the collapse.

There's only one thing this show is going to do, in the end- NOTHING. The people who are so madly in love with these conspiracy stories will point at it and say PROOF OF CONSPIRACY, while people who know these conspiracy mongers are lying through their teeth will point at it and say PROOF THAT THE CONSPIRACY MONGERS ARE LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH, so either way, everyone is exactly where they were before. The only one who wins in the end is Jesse Ventura, who probably picked up at least fifty grand for this episode, and all he did is recite the crap these damned fool conspiracy web sites are pushing out almost word for word. I guess P.T. Barnum was right after all.

I just saw the previews for next week's show. They're claiming global warming is a hoax meant to "take over the world". Huh?!?



I realize there are 2 more pages of posts, and this guy has probably been blown to bits already, but... Really, dude?! Are you that obtuse? You sincerely STILL believe that this was the act of Muslim Terrorists, and that's all?

Wow, and on an alternative knowledge blog.

You may be THE most gullible person in the world. Proving this theory is Truth101 - easy as pie. And, I thought Jesse left a TON untouched. Try spending some time over on 911research.com...

Really?!? BWAAAAHAHAAHahahahahahah


[edit on 12/10/2009 by SquirrelNutz]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


From what I've read of your posts,you seam to be an ass monkey. And I'm not being nice, so why do you try to bait members? Just had to get that off my back. To the members of ATS sorry for this derail.




[edit on 12/10/2009 by dirtydog]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 


He is just just one of the many superheroes on this forum, his super power is that he is totally impervious to the truth.
I have heard that like most neocons his only weakness is to airport bathroom stalls but that is still unconfirmed.

I am dying from the fallout of that day and the only thing you can get out of these losers is that we should have worn masks that were not even provided for days, I wonder what this superhero would have done had he been in the same situation, I am sure it would have involved a lot of standing around.

Know this, the majority of us despise men like this and they will never have our respect, they are no different than the chicken hawks that send our troops off to war to die for money


[edit on 12/10/2009 by samhouston1886]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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I guess dave missed the part were the maintence worker said there were explosions in the sub basements BEFORE the planes hit the towers. Check your facts.

[edit on 12/10/2009 by dirtydog]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by Finn1916
 


No harm mate,

I can see that you just posted this thread because you seen mine last week and you figured it would be a good way to gain flags.

My point being, you created this thread and gave NO information whatsoever, no article, no video. You just typed 2 lines of text announcing that the show is on tonight, this is not a TV guide mate.

The title of the thread also looks like a TV guide.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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I do agree with those folks that say Jesse may not be the best host for this show, or that he/it tries to make a little too sensational.

But, he's/it's not horrible either.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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It would have been better for the show to have focused on the trillion dollars that went missing from the pentagon on the tenth of September. Or the PNAC link to the whole mess. So many...many unanswered questions. What was it that the Pentagon was undergoing construction for before it was "hit". Right in the area where the construction was going on. I believe it was being reinforced for a possible missile strike or something. Didn't the "plane" that hit the Pentagon have to undergo a serious manuever to have it in that exact spot? So many unanswered questions and we're left with what we have. No explanation.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 

Here's some information from way back in October of 2002 about the problems with the evidence. The House caught on right away it seems.

www.house.gov...

Here's some quotes if you don't want to click the link and read the whole thing:

"The National Construction Safety Team Act will ensure that the mishandled evidence and in-fighting that hobbled FEMA’s World Trade Center investigation never happens again."

"Thousands of tons of steel were carted away from ground zero and recycled before any expert could examine what could have been tell-tale clues. Support trusses, fireproofing fragments and even burnt out electrical switches that might have given scientists and engineers insight were lost forever - even before an investigation was underway."


Phrases that jump out at me are "THOUSANDS OF TONS OF STEEL CARTED AWAY" and "BEFORE ANY EXPERT COULD EXAMINE". I'm thinking this probably undermined the whole investigation from the get go.

Edited to add: I'd like to point out that this isn't from one of those "darned conspiracy sites" selling DVDs and coffee mugs.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by NIcon]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Lillydale
NO. That is not what I asked. You are at least the second person to claim that there were NO REPORTS OF SECONDARY DEVICES. I was asking if you are going to stick to that or if you at least admit that secondary device(s) were reported?


I'm not certain where you're going with this, but all right, yes, at the time of the attack there were personnel who thought the explosions they heard were bombs. Without looking it up I know right away this is almost certainly becuase bombs were used back in 1993 and that's almost certainly what they presumed the terrorists did this time, too. The problem for you is they were assuming they were bombs based upon little to no information other than the explosions they were hearing, while you are assuming there were bombs some nine years after we've been able to digest all the available information, when we know there were NO actual bombs found, nor were there any REMAINS of bombs found (det cords, timers, wiring, whatever), nor had anyone actaully seen anything remotely like an actual bomb.

On the other hand, I can certainly prove the buildings had electrical transformers, fire extinguishers, etc, and other items that would explode under fire. Unless you can show a) evidence of actual bombs and b) evidence there were no electrical transformers, fire extinguishers, etc, you're going nowhere with this bit.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Finn1916
Hey just so everyone knows, that new conspiracy theory show is doing 911 tonight on tru tv, watching it now.


Oh...you watch TV??



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Dark Passenger
Wtf? Thank you Jesse Ventura for turning what happened on 9/11 into an episode of "Destination Truth". What was he thinking.


Let me ask can you do better? Where's your show?

Destination Truth rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ventura did a show no one else had the balls to do, that's speaks volumes.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


I notice you did not comment on the maintence workers statement. I guess by your earlier statements he must have been mistaken or an idiot.


[edit on 12/10/2009 by dirtydog]

You seem to presume a lot. I presume you to be a disinfo troll.


[edit on 12/10/2009 by dirtydog]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
I was mistaken that the FEMA team itself complained about a lack of evidence; it was a public investigator sent to work with the BPAT and collect as much information as he could for the NSF and UC-Berkeley. He spent a month in NY looking through the landfill site.

He was summoned to report before the House Committee on Science as to what he had learned:

[Astaneh-Asl]I wish I had more time to inspect steel structure and save more pieces before the steel was recycled. However, given the fact that other teams such as NIST, SEAONY and FEMA-BPAT have also done inspection and have collected the perishable data, it seems to me that collectively we may have been able to collect sufficient data. The main impediments to my work were and still are:

1. Not having a copy of the engineering drawings and design and construction documents.
2. Not having copies of the photographs and videotapes that various agencies might have taken during and immediately after the collapse.


...but that's NOT what you said. You said the only access such investigators had to the steel was a brief walk through of the areas where the steel was stored. FEMA collected a lot of what they called "coupons" from critical areas of the structure for analysis, and they almost certainly still have them. He acknowledges other teams had already gone through and collected loads of samples, and even admits they probably have enough data from the wreckage.

Wait a minute! This was NOT for the 9/11 commission, but rather the House Committee of Science and Technology in March 2002, BEFORE the 9/11 commission. This means he gave this testimony while the investigation was still ongoing. What evidence do you have that he *never* received the construction blueprints or the photographs he was looking for?

Methinks I'm smelling yet another innuendo dropping game, here.



I don't know what happened with SEAONY, but FEMA and NIST both came out with totally BS reports on the towers that makes their investigations at least negligent, more likely compromised in terms of being able to legitimately investigate the collapses.


Let's face it, the only reason you're claiming they were BS reports is becuase they contradict these controlled demolitions stories of yours. The photographs they took of critical areas of the collapse show right away the extent that a) the fires had on the steel and b) the force of power the chain reaction of structural failure had on the remaining structure. Controlled demolitions don't fold steel in half like paper, you know.


And they are keeping thousands of photos and videos, and more importantly the complete structural information to themselves to this day, preventing anyone else from the public of reviewing their work.


I suspect that's yet another exaggeration, but if you absolutely want to see more photos of the condition of the steel, I highly recommend the book, "Aftermath", by Joel Meyerowitz. He's a photographer who documented the cleanup of ground zero, and took *many* photographs of the steel in its just fallen down state. I have the book, and I'm not seeing anything different from what the FEMA photos show.



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