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Gorbachev Exposes Global Communist Environmentalism Conspiracy.

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posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by Someone336
 


No its cool. There is relevant important discussion in there. Without really any contention against the OP (did I miss any?) its not exactly derailed.

I dont think he asserted that the US hasnt done those things (CIA, etc).

I dont understand how you could have the 'public' own the industries, yet have a free market system. I also dont understand how it doesnt become the state responsible to make it work (to enforce it).

And the idea of just 'printing' money sounds like what we have, unless theres a 'standard'.

Furthermore, I like the idea that if I take the time and energy and effort to learn and develop skills enabling me to grow, invent or build things that I can then further my quality of life with (yes, PROFIT from).

[edit on 10-12-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]




posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


No point of contention, other than the fact that I personally disagree with you on the 'communist' conspiracy bit. However, I do believe that while conservationism is a good thing to follow, this whole global warming fraud is terrible agenda that is, at the very least, designed to conduct further highway robbery on the limited pocketbooks of the world.

To further fuel your OP, have you checked out Maurice Strong, or the group he belongs to, the 1001 Club? Massive can of worms, this one.


I dont understand how you could have the 'public' own the industries, yet have a free market system. I also dont understand how it doesnt become the state responsible to make it work (to enforce it).

And the idea of just 'printing' money sounds like what we have, unless theres a 'standard'.


The worker cooperative system is at worker at many places in the world, in capitalist countries. My system differs from the standard 'socialist' or 'communist' definition that it isn't society at large that owns the industry, but the workers of that specific company or corporation. When I typed "free market" earlier, I meant to type free trade. I will edit that. It may be utopian idea, as is any communist idea, socialist, or capitalist. It will be up to the people, inevitably, to decide if this is what they want. But in the worker cooperative system, people make more money than the wage system because they profit directly from the goods they produce as opposed to an hour by hour system.

I also believe in a return to the gold standard.


[edit on 10-12-2009 by Someone336]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by Someone336
 


I edited-added to my above post.

Please present an argument then. I showed the timeline of the collapse and the move to environmentalism. I showed orbie heading the the Kyoto etc, and call for a UN global government (as well as linked to my other thread showing most major world leaders calling for the same). I showed the co-founder of Greenpeace describing the communist infiltration of his group. And so on. I showedf how the Climategate fraud was perpetrated in efforts to bring all this about.

Did I not properly describe how the Cap'n Trade'esque measures are communistic? OR do you need a comprehensive display how the West (the "free" world) is becoming totalitarianism?

What is incorrect? What is lacking in my case here?

Although I must say, to be clear, that the whole communist bit is what I see as a deliberate facet in the 'NWO'. The communists being allowed to flourish in their 'post-Cold War' is part of the conspiracy. The meeting of the minds I spoke about. I think my video also should have given this idea.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


I edited my post above to respond to your edit.

I'll respond with my alternative counterargument (which, at the core, agrees that global warming is a fraud) tomorrow, as I'm about to log off. Work in less than seven hours, which is grim thought to imagine.

Until then, I'm not completely opposed to a 'communist' (read: leftist totalitarianism) element in global warming. It's the vested interests we must look at, as these people operate outside ideology or national duty.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by Someone336]



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Well if comes down to choosing a socialist dictatorship or a capitalist dictatorship, I think I will go with the former... At least I will have a roof over my head, a nice meal and a steady job.


Capitalism depends completely in a free market, and private ownership of capital. Because of competition between different companies, prices of products can remain relatively low depending on demand. It also induces better salaries, and more benefits.


Thats true if the anti-trust laws work but normally they don't.

Smart/cunning people always find a way to monopolise any given market sector.


Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
If you don't like your job with McDonalds for $7.25 an hour, you could have gone to college, and gotten a better job, but because of the Socialist elites wanting to implement their One World Socialist Government they caused the economic crisis in which we are in.


Elites and socialism do not mix. Socialism and communism advocate equality whereas capitalism advocates elitism. Your statement was a paradox.


Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
You can also move to some other state where the standard of living is better. For example the city where I live you get paid $15 an hour for being a driver for Dominos pizza


Really? What city is that....


Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
BTW, if you believe that in Socialist/Communist dictatorships all people have a roof over their heads, and they have enough food you are more dellusional than I thought.

If you want to experience a true Socialist/Communist dictatorship just come up with about $5,000 dollars, and I can get you to live with my family in Cuba, and they can show you the wonders of a Socialist/Communist dictatorship...

You will have to give my family in Cuba $200 a week and they will love you, and show you the Communist nation...they won't show you only the tourist sections of the island, they will show you the real sections of the island where regular people live. of course you will also have to learn some Spanish.


You can thank the half-century embargo from "the west". More-or-less all communist countries suffered a similar fate.



Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
The house of my grandmother was taken by the government once we left the island. They didn't give any compensation to my two half sisters who were still lviing there, and they were instead put in a small apartment.

My grandfather was in Cuba trying to stay alive meanwhile the Communists were taking over everything in the island, and no he wasn't rich he just didn't want to accept the Communist demands. My grandfather did have some land which was taken by the Communist regime, but he was a farmer, he was not a rich man.


Somehow I think you are lying. Most poor people welcomed the revolution because it was the best way for them to take over land and assets from the mafia, which was supported by batista and the USA(as always).

[edit on 11-12-2009 by EarthCitizen07]



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Elites and socialism do not mix. Socialism and communism advocate equality whereas capitalism advocates elitism. Your statement was a paradox.


Then explain to us how it was that "The Oligarchs" were already poised to snatch up the Russian economy as it crumbled.

The reality is that all systems will become oligarchy:
Iron Law of Oligarchy

You can bet that the more powerful the system the more that "iron law" will come true. So what you have to ask yourself is which system will be worse when it reaches its oligarchical climax? As it turns out, we have 2 perfect examples in history: USSA & USSR. Ask yourself which was worse for its people during its reign, and which one lasted the longest before imploding.

We all know these answers. The funny thing is, the Soviet system was inherently flawed on this scale, whereas its taken 95 years of Federal Reserve robbing the public to still not kill the system via its normal measures. It wasnt until the Banksters went for the final death blow via engineered economic collapse and artificial tripling of fuel costs at the same time to still not completely kill us off.

Now I'm not condoning this cruel system, but if I had to choose between forms of oligarchy the choice is easy. Following the Iron Law, choosing a system should be the choice between what kind of oligarchy do you want to end up with. Therefore, the idea of an unrivaled communistic global government is absolute insanity.

Thomas Jefferson:

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion."



[edit on 11-12-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Elites and socialism do not mix. Socialism and communism advocate equality whereas capitalism advocates elitism. Your statement was a paradox.


Then explain to us how it was that "The Oligarchs" were already poised to snatch up the Russian economy as it crumbled.


What makes you think "The Oligarchs" were of russian origin? I think most were european "barons" that were absolutely salivating for the collapse so they could buy everything at a "rock bottom" price.

I am not stating this as fact, so I could wrong, but I have noticed a lot of ex-socialist european countries have suffered a similar fate. Airlines, railroads, weapon factories, telephone, electricity and all other forms of major industry used to be national property until slowely but surely each country had to de-nationalise everything to join the EU and more importantly to be able to borrow from the world bank.

I have almost no doubt that the UN, and as an extention the World Bank, are orchestrating the grand takeover of all international resources to consolidate enough power so the NWO illuminati can one day rule. Since the elite issue currency they can bribe any political or corporate leader(s) they choose.

Any system can be corrupted and taken over, even communism and socialism which is fundamentally anti-elite. Money talks and bs walks, right?

As to capitalism being a better system I disagree. Communism imploded earlier due to the tremendous embargo/blockade. The elite indirectly took down their #1 enemy by controlling the corporate west.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
As to capitalism being a better system I disagree. Communism imploded earlier due to the tremendous embargo/blockade. The elite indirectly took down their #1 enemy by controlling the corporate west.



What did theyneed US for? They had half the world under their grip. Their experiment failed, and the CHinese experiment has only gotten where it is by adopting capitalist economic policies.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


It depends how you look at it! Communism is not a competitive system, its a *get by system*. It doesn't encourage economic growth as the west does and everything is/was centrally planned which means less efficiency in the long run.

I can agree capitalism is better in some regards but for the average working person it isn't. If you wanna get ahead in life go to america, if you want to survive socialism and/or communism is better. Two sides to every coin...

Any other questions? You make good points though!



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


It depends how you look at it! Communism is not a competitive system, its a *get by system*. It doesn't encourage economic growth as the west does and everything is/was centrally planned which means less efficiency in the long run.

I can agree capitalism is better in some regards but for the average working person it isn't. If you wanna get ahead in life go to america, if you want to survive socialism and/or communism is better. Two sides to every coin...

Any other questions? You make good points though!


Marxist/Bolshevik/Communism is underhanded, cut throat, deceptive, mind and body control.
These folks are dangerous. What did they do for Germany? For Poland? For Russia?
It was always Holocaust for the people and big bucks for the fleeing MASTERS.
Let's not forget Spain and Portugal. It is no different now in most Christian based countries.
It has a hard grip right here in the hart land of America. Now think---Muslim! and Israel.
Any body want to live the life of a Chinese or Cuban citizen?
Don't be fooled they change their names like they change the name or concept of Communism.
The consolation prize of a communist take over would be no more immigrants flocking in.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Boy, you have a very simplistic view of the world, I must add...
...........................

War is war, wether you like it or not! There WILL be casualties in ANY war son.


You have a very SADISTIC, and TWISTED view of the world...

There is a BIG difference between fighting soldiers in the field of battle and sending MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TO GAS CHAMBERS....

It seems that you are eiher a boy NAZI, or an adult NAZI... You people keep trying to dismiss the attrocities committed by your idol...


Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
America is not killing iraqis and afghanis? America did not kill her own citizens on 9-11? What the hell are you trying to prove?? You make zero sense!


I make zero sense?.....


First of all, there is no proof but CLAIMS that the U.S. government was behind 9/11, but there is EVIDENCE even in European countries like Spain, and Germany that ISLAMIC TERRORISTS planned 9/11 mostly in Spain. Their first target was Paris, but they changed targets and decided to attack the U.S.

The one not making sense is YOU trying to dismiss the attrocities committed by Hitler, who was an evil sob who sent MILLIONS of people to their deaths just because they were minorities....


[edit on 11-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
...................
I can agree capitalism is better in some regards but for the average working person it isn't. If you wanna get ahead in life go to america, if you want to survive socialism and/or communism is better. Two sides to every coin...
..............


BS..... true or scientific Socialism/Communism are NOT better... Communism doesn't allow you to be the best you can be.. EVERYONE, except the elite, are paid a MISERY, and there is no incentive whatsoever to become a doctor, or even an engineer... The Communist elites become richer, meanwhile stealing the money the people had been saving before Communism took over...

It is obvious you have never experienced true Socialism/Communism.

Any other questions?.... BTW, are you going to come up with $5,000 - $ 10,000 U.S. dollars so that I can get you to live in a Communist country with my family so you can see the wonders of Communism?...



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Boy, you have a very simplistic view of the world, I must add...
...........................

War is war, wether you like it or not! There WILL be casualties in ANY war son.


You have a very SADISTIC, and TWISTED view of the world...

There is a BIG difference between fighting soldiers in the field of battle and sending MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TO GAS CHAMBERS....

It seems that you are eiher a boy NAZI, or an adult NAZI... You people keep trying to dismiss the attrocities committed by your idol...


Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
America is not killing iraqis and afghanis? America did not kill her own citizens on 9-11? What the hell are you trying to prove?? You make zero sense!


I make zero sense?.....


First of all, there is no proof but CLAIMS that the U.S. government was behind 9/11, but there is EVIDENCE even in European countries like Spain, and Germany that ISLAMIC TERRORISTS planned 9/11 mostly in Spain. Their first target was Paris, but they changed targets and decided to attack the U.S.

The one not making sense is YOU trying to dismiss the attrocities committed by Hitler, who was an evil sob who sent MILLIONS of people to their deaths just because they were minorities....


[edit on 11-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]


Hitler and the Nazi's didn't start the fire in Europe.
They were a reaction to the invading Marxists from the west.
The fear of Lenin's brother's book bomb attempt at killing the Tsar.
The fear of Lenin and Trotsky murdering the Tsar,
his wife and kids in cold blood.
Cowardly underhanded lowlife political maneuvers.
How did the RICH EXCAPE and start again?
THERE IS NO PROOF ABOUT 911 PERIOD.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 10:11 AM
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It amazes me just how poorly informed people are. They have no idea why ww1&ww2 started, they twist the meaning of socialism, they deny 9-11 was masterminded by the american government eventhough all the evidence clearly points in that direction and they like to paint muslims as terrorists.

Wow, misinformation at its best! And no I don't support attrocities regardless of who commits them. All I am saying is lets not be hypocrites in accepting some and condeming others just because you live in a certain geographic area and prone to local mainstream media disinfo. No side is ever 100% right and the other 100% wrong, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I regard this entire thread about a global communist takeover as a great attempt to mislead people about the true nature of the nwo and its real motives.


[edit on 12-12-2009 by EarthCitizen07]



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
BS..... true or scientific Socialism/Communism are NOT better... Communism doesn't allow you to be the best you can be.. EVERYONE, except the elite, are paid a MISERY, and there is no incentive whatsoever to become a doctor, or even an engineer... The Communist elites become richer, meanwhile stealing the money the people had been saving before Communism took over...


I doubt many soviet/chineese/cuban officials got filthy rich as some business executives in europe and the usa. Whats the average salary for high level management there? $10, $50 or $100 million per year?!

Get real!! You cannot debate me on an equal level! You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it! Who are you trying to fool? And your constant ad-hominem attacks are really starting to annoy me.....



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Any other questions?.... BTW, are you going to come up with $5,000 - $ 10,000 U.S. dollars so that I can get you to live in a Communist country with my family so you can see the wonders of Communism?...


You think cuba is bad?

Wait until the american economy collapses. Then you might learn the meaning of BAD!



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
First of all, there is no proof but CLAIMS that the U.S. government was behind 9/11,


I beg to differ, old buddy. There is overwhelming evidence, and I'm not talking about all the physics stuff too many out there want to spend all of the focus and energy on. C'mon, Clinton used Al Qaeda in the Balkans throughout the entire 90's. Thats destroys most of the claims made in the 9/11 commission report (which I've read about 4 times over).

Al Qaeda: "The CI-A Team"

Dont trust them! You shouldnt honestly think that either the right or the left are 100% right. Global Warming is the Left's version of 9/11 / War on Terror.






posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I doubt many soviet/chineese/cuban officials got filthy rich as some business executives in europe and the usa. Whats the average salary for high level management there? $10, $50 or $100 million per year?!


They get their equivalent. They also get to abuse and subject people in ways not permitted in 'the west', which many of them get off on so its a fringe benefit. And Moscow is way more palace like than DC. DC is more like a museum of ancient western empire capitals.

You did claim Hitler wasnt that evil.


Empires kill, and communism kills more than Hitler did, but they dont build industrialized extermination camps. Well at least not normally, but now with the Eugenicists running the NWO, which is a fascist / communist hybrid system you never know whats next. Wouldnt you say that nazi'sm was fascist / communist hybrid?

[edit on 12-12-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


I will be frank with you! Nazism and fascism was national socialism and soviet socialism was really national communism. All had imperialistic motives just like western europe a few decades earlier and by western europe I mean england, france, spain, portugal, belgium and others to lesser extent.

What economic system is in place is almost irrellevant because imperialism is imperialism. It has always been about imperialism going back thousands of years! Humanity doesn't really change at the core level because we all like fame&glory. Some like it more than others!

Yesterday's wars were fought with bows&arrows and spears, while today they are fought with missiles, nukes, planes, tanks, ships, etc. Only the methods change......
We must change at a fundamental level to reach higher.

A world government might prove to be great in the future but I doubt the nwo has any credibility left. Tyrany, mass murder and secrecy are not acceptable under any circumstances.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Empires kill, and communism kills more than Hitler did, but they dont build industrialized extermination camps. Well at least not normally, but now with the Eugenicists running the NWO, which is a fascist / communist hybrid system you never know whats next. Wouldnt you say that nazi'sm was fascist / communist hybrid?

[edit on 12-12-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]


I strongly disagree with the "fascist/communist" hybrid system. The nwo is being run by *international capitalists*, at least thats where all the evidence points to.

Mainstream media in north america is calling it "national socialism" (1)to belittle italy/germany/japan since most people remember ww2 and (2)to make capitalism look good.




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