Its a truly fantastic book, a 'bottom-up' look at History instead of the standard 'Internationl History' of most authors which covers the big decision makers. Although both forms of History are quite acceptable I am a Leftist so am more drawn towards the likes of Zinn.

If i lived in America i would be watching this and telling other people to.

I would think that showing that our forefathers were both brave patriots fighting for their freedom AND slave owners lacking the compassion of their convictions would show the more true pictures, and therefore worthy of showing both.

In order to truly understand the US and our history it is important to show all of its aspects, and history shows that the government and the majority populace have generally been at odds, with the government and an elite minority often trying to manipulate the peoples actions and opinions to suit the needs and profit of the few. It is really only when this truth is understood that any realistic voting and opinion can occur.

We often hear of "the liberal media" and our "liberal education" however there are certain subjects that are often boycotted in our education and media, the true "liberal agenda", and the fact of the matter is that most of our media and education are so far right that what most people label liberal or far left is actually more center left. We all are familiar with the neocon agenda, as it has several mouthy spokesmen on several channels, and is often given regular airtime, however most people are quite ignorant of truly leftist agenda.

As to the extent of our "liberal education"....i think about as liberal as our history education is, is that we killed some indians, and columbus was not all he was cracked up to be. They dont get into true historical liberalism in high school such as america's imperialist control of south america through groups like united fruit, nor do they get much into the desertification of africa through our corporate groups. They dont teach the true motives of our entrance into the civil war, or WWII, nor do they teach about the Gulf of Tonkin incident nor our true reasons for the massacre of 2-4 million vietnamese. Most of the children i teach know absolutely nothing about vietnam, including what century it is in, nor the fact that we killed 500000 cambodians and 750000 laosans in side agenda's.

Most americans know nothing of the fact of americas involvement in manipulating the elections of leaders even in countries considered our allies, of our interloping in the civil war in greece, china, and russia, nor of our history of assassinating leaders in other countries, or installing 16 dictators....or of destroying fledgling democracies who would try to win rights for their people against the power of american corporatism. Our support of people such as Osama bin laden during the cold war, of trujillo, papa doc and baby doc and many other such mass murderers.

The idea of "manifest destiny" is shown as the inevitable and righteous growth of american control throughout the western US, rather than the massacre of indegenous folks, the conquest and murder of hawaiians and philipeans that it was.

The whole period of the "RED SCARE" and the manipulation of the public in mass is skipped over completely, as is the era of Mccarthyism where all americans with alternative social ideas were persecuted, black listed, and murdered and civil rights were trampled over for anyone holding anything other than the government approved ideals.

The torrid history of CIA training of south american death squads where soldiers of dictators were taught how to use rape and murder of civilians in order to forestall public uprising and dessent through brutal oppression is ignored, as is the "school of the americas" where we train many future dictators and terrorists.

And once again there are the CIA's experiments in LSD and such substances upon unsuspecting american citizens, the tuskeegee experiments and other such inhumane horrors perpetrated upon our own unsuspecting populace.

When all this, incontrovertable HISTORY, is taught in schools, perhaps then i will recognize that there is a liberal education. Until then, i can only assume that people are being intentionally decieved for the express purpose of raising them to be maleable and ignorant, in order to more easily lead them blindly off to war whenever some upstart country decides they want to exercise their right to self determination, or anytime an oil corporation wants to expand its holdings and profit.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

When I write "Democrat," I mean Democrat. When I write "Republican," I mean Republican. When I refer to liberalism and conservatism, I'm referring to those ideologies.

Now, when I see liberal revisionists writing that Republicans should be ashamed of the historical "scab of racism" on their party, I do feel inclined to jump in and correct them. Whereupon I'm accused of being a neocon, a racist and, worse yet, a Republican.

— Doc Velocity
[edit on 12/10/2009 by Doc Velocity]

If you start a thread using the terms left/right and later support your argument using the terms democrat/republican and still later use the terms liberal/conservative to convey essentially the same point then it's only natural for someone to assume that you are associating left with democrat and liberal and right with republican and conservative. And then you wonder why someone would assume that they all mean the same thing to you. Do you see my point?

[edit on 11-12-2009 by winston37]

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by winston37
I [write G_d] out of courtesy for those that believe it shouldn't be written; simple as that.

So, you do it out of courtesy to the tiny minority of people who don't believe in God, but you have no problem flipping off the remaining 95% of the human race who do believe in God or gods.

Whatever floats your boat.

— Doc Velocity

So you're saying that you are offended when someone doesn't spell out the full name of God? Never heard that one before. BTW where do you get that 95% figure from? Can I get a source on that?

Just wanted to remind everyone that this show is on tonight. I'm taping it, but look forward to a discussion about it after we watch!

First mistake....didn't take long.

Yes, the phrase was changed from "Life, liberty and property" to the current "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", it was changed because at the time slaves where considered property. Our founding fathers knew that there would come a time where slavery would be abolished, and didn't want that act to be considered unconstitutional.

The founding fathers also knew one day that a foreigner would try to destroy this country, that is why they put the natural born citizen clause in for qualification to be President. Too bad we ignored that one.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
You may have noticed Matt Damon lately hawking The People Speak, an upcoming "educational" special on the History Channel... I'm going to do something unusual for me and advise you not to watch it.

well, i'm watching it right now and so far, nothing marxist at all

your avatar suits you, btw


how can you judge something based on another person's opinion?
i don't
but thanks for your advice, anyway

thank GOD for the 1st and 4th amendments!

If schools taught real history, we would not be paying taxes.

An american slogan should be: "Tax me, and I will destroy you". We beat england so bad, they became a nanny state out of fear from the populace doing as we did. America was never ment to resemble europe in any way...ever.

As i watch this show, it shows me nothing more than i read in "the peoples history of the united states"..... a sad and true portrayal of the condition and fight of the american working class. It shows nothing more than the truth of where the power in our country lies, and whom that power serves. There is nothing in it of lies or brainwashing, just the truth that every day workers have to and have had to deal with in our not so long history. It should move anyone to tears the abuses that those in power lay upon the middle and lower class in order to keep that power for their own.

I cant see the show.. hopefully someone will post it online.

On the first page of this post, I told everyone they were reading the article wrong, and there was NOT going to be any Marxist stuff in the show, and that it would be a show about the founders beliefs.

I want to hear from everyone who saw the show.. was there any Marxist stuff in it? or was I correct in my post on page 1 that everyone ignored?

[edit on 14-12-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

No, nothing marxist. Mostly its the words of the people who fought against our government and corporations in order to procure all the freedoms we now enjoy....rather as i thought, being familiar with zinn's works.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I cant see the show.. hopefully someone will post it online.

On the first page of this post, I told everyone they were reading the article wrong, and there was NOT going to be any Marxist stuff in the show, and that it would be a show about the founders beliefs.

I want to hear from everyone who saw the show.. was there any Marxist stuff in it? or was I correct in my post on page 1 that everyone ignored?

you were right!

it was a great show.

maybe you can get the book to read. it has all the show had and more.
i'm hoping to read it some time.

[edit on 12/14/2009 by queenannie38]

yeah, thats how i felt the first time i read howard zinn too. Sadly, the only way for "we the people" to enact change is by being as courageous as many of the people in the film, and in our history. They did not fight half heartedly, they wholly embraced their surrender of freedom, they did not shirk away from being imprisoned, beaten and abused, and even murdered for what they believed in. Now we lack the courage of our convictions, but we still live in comfort, and thats what they said "find the amount of tyranny a man will bear in silence, and i will show you where the government line is drawn" or something to that effect. Many of us are too comfortable now to sacrifice what little we have for what we know is right.

Strangely enough, when backlash does come (and at some point it will) it will most likely come because the government has pushed just far enough to take away that last bit of comfort that we cannot do without, it will be forced by their hand i think.