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The People Speak: History Channel Goes FAR Left

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posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by JohnD
reply to post by Oaktree
 


You are absolutely right, Oaktree. Specifically, we are a constitution based, federal republic. Unfortunately, ask kids from K through 12 (mostly educated in government school) in this country if we live in a democracy or a republic, and see what answers you get.


And therein lies the problem.
I'm sure that asking kids k-12 will result in the majority of them giving the same answer. Democracy.
I would bet that 90% of adults would also answer the same.

However, this inaccuracy is being incorporated into this show as fact, and then the rest of the show is formed around a non-truth.




posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by Pontius

Originally posted by Oaktree




Mr. Zinn is simply stating the obvious, only using inflammatory verbiage to excite the excitable.




[edit on 10-12-2009 by Oaktree]



If he's simply stating the obvious and you take umbrage with his inflammatory remarks then you are picking a side. If you agree with his inflammatory remarks then you are picking a side. What side are you on then, Oaktree?


What do "obvious" facts lead you to feel about U.S. History and modern social policy? You can either be the psychopath or the humanist, which is it?


I do not "pick sides".
That is how our government continues to avoid representing The People, and selling us out to the highest bidder.

"Obvious facts" can and are constantly twisted by both "sides".
My issue is when either "side" picks certain facts, while ignoring or denying other facts, to sway a viewpoint in a certain "sides" favor.
This "side" is rarely the side of The People, which is the only side that should matter.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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I'm having trouble understanding your gripe, OP. You've labled Zinn a socialist simply because he doesn't agree with your ideology. But you're also upset that he suggests that kids should be taught the truth.

I'm confused as to how being taught the truth turns you into a socialist. If that's the case, I guess I'm a raging socialist because I LOVE the truth and will teach it to my kids if schools don't.

I didn't know, until I was in my early 20's that our forefathers owned slaves. I don't know why, but I was shocked, then I was a little angry. It seemed hypocritical. I've learned a heck of a lot about our history since then that I wasn't taught in school. Interesting thing is, I've become more of a moderate liberal. That doesn't have anything to do with learning the truth about our history. Just has more to do with LISTENING TO THE OPINIONS OF THOSE I DISAGREE WITH. I've heard some good arguments that have made me take a 180 on some of my opinions; others have put me on the fence; some have solidified what I already believed.

I think you will do yourself a disservice to purposefully not watch something because you read an op-ed by an obviously biased source and that you obviously agree with therefore judging the documentary before it even airs. Your boycott only shows that you wish not to even understand where the other side is coming from. You just want to judge them and call them names based on your own preconceived notions and information that is given to you from those who have the same mentality as you.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:56 PM
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About Marxism. Marxism is a really good system when it works and when it's not corrupted and abused by man.

Modern socialism is a bastardization of Marxism that is twisted to serve the needs of the government. Because of this, it is easy to lead to Communism.

There has never been a true Marxist government that worked for the good of all of the people and where everyone was equal because not everyone wanted to be or was content to be an equal.

True Marxism as it was intended is not Evil or a bad system in any way. Man has just made it so.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


Here we go again with the left/right bologna. What in G_d's name is it gonna take for us all to learn that the democrat and republican officials have more in common with each other than they do with the citizens they claim to represent?



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by pexx421
I imagine from your post that you assume that we who support watching this are somehow democrats?


Not at all; however, when I see pro-socialist programming by liberal revisionist Howard Zinn, being marketed by hard-left-leaning Hollywood liberals Matt Damon and Danny Glover (who hobnobs with the likes of Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez), I'm inclined to believe that I'm looking at a piece of anti-American propaganda, piped into my home courtesy of the History Channel.

When I suspect that television programming is anti-American, pro-socialist propaganda, I do as the liberals out there always advise me: I change the channel, and I advise others to do the same if they wish to avoid such propaganda in their homes.

— Doc Velocity






[edit on 12/10/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by winston37
Here we go again with the left/right bologna. What in G_d's name is it gonna take for us all to learn that the democrat and republican officials have more in common with each other than they do with the citizens they claim to represent?


When are we going to learn that Democrat/Republican jerseys have nothing to do with liberal and conservative ideologies?

And, if your going to invoke God's name, why not have the courtesy to spell it out properly, rather than applying politically-correct filters on your writing?

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
About Marxism. Marxism is a really good system when it works and when it's not corrupted and abused by man.


Where is Marxism a "good system," and who employs such a system if not the ever-fallible and always-corruptible human race?

Yeah, socialism is a great system if you advocate beheading capitalists and driving free worship underground. Aside from that, I'm all in favor of bread lines.

— Doc Velocity






[edit on 12/10/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by Oaktree
reply to post by drwizardphd
 



The genocide label is opinion. War, or struggles, is typically waged by one people against another, and each of these groups is typically comprised of people with commonalities, race and/or religion being the two biggies.


So the murder of millions of Native Americans wasn't genocide? What would you suggest we call it then? A war? A struggle? How 'bout a lil' ol' school yard scuffle?



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 

Doc,
again i ask...you have all this problem with Mr. Zinn,
I get why.
but what is your problem with THIS SHOW.

at the worst, it seems like a nice show that shows the art of speech writing/performing.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Dogdish
There are many things a young child doesn't NEED to see or hear.
As they mature, they'll learn those things as they learn to satisfy their own curiosity, and as they develop their own interests.
I hate that conventional "wisdom" dictates that we must throw things like this at children. Let them see the world as children while they can. They are entitled to see the world as good until they decide to grow up. They learn the difference, right from wrong, this way.
I'm certainly not saying that we should hide the "truth", but who's truth is it? Who thinks it necessary to teach a child that the world should be more fair, so fair that things have to be taken away from people who have more than their share? How do you think a child will view communism? Will they be able to see it like you do?
Who thinks it's necessary to expose any slave owner from the 1700's? Will there also be testimony on that particular slave owner's treatment of their slaves? Why would anyone place this thought between young friends who have no idea the troubles either of their forefathers faced.
Just my opinion, but I think The History Channel needs to hear it.
Where is the other side? Where are the stories of those who came here and built their own lives of their own sweat? What of those people who worked side by side with free men of all colors, to build homes, churches, and all the little towns that are picturesque and historic today? Don't tell me that's what they already learn, because that's not what's in the books.
But do they really need to know until they want to? What is the point of putting this into their brain?


Wow, dude you are so correct. Telling them things like Presidents had slaves and things of communism at an age like this would really mess them up as they can't comprehend all sides of it. Of course if you did this, Communism would seem like the great big hero as democracy seems to us. But they haven't seen the dictation involved in Communism and the consequences of stepping out of line, so their view on it would be one sided, I believe what Marx is doing is entirely wronf and should be stopped. Not unless he shows the greatness Democracy is would I condone it, which he clearly points Democracy is "evil".



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by winston37
Here we go again with the left/right bologna. What in G_d's name is it gonna take for us all to learn that the democrat and republican officials have more in common with each other than they do with the citizens they claim to represent?


When are we going to learn that Democrat/Republican jerseys have nothing to do with liberal and conservative ideologies?



When all of you with your ideological name tags pasted to your shirt stop spouting the same garbage your leaders tell you to and start thinking for yourselves.



And, if your going to invoke God's name, why not have the courtesy to spell it out properly, rather than applying politically-correct filters on your writing?


I do it out of courtesy for those that believe it shouldn't be written; simple as that. I could, personally, care less because I don't believe any of the religions have accurately described the creator, therefore, the words they've assigned to him have no meaning to me. I wouldn't call it politically correct, however. I'd call it respect for something that is very sacred to some people, including many friends and family members of mine. So blame it on my raisin' if you need to. PC, however, is a load of crap invented by whiners that can't take criticism.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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I like Howard Zinn. "The People"s History" is a good read. For an alternative website we sure have a lot of folks who only want their alternative voiced. I guess I'm old school but I can remember the pre internet days when those of us "in the know", relied on writers like Zinn, Alex Constantine, Jim Keith, Howard Bloom, Robert Anton Wilson etc, to help us awaken from our national hypnosis. Sure Zinn has an agenda. But so does the OP. So do a lot of posters. If we can't find common ground and quit bashing one another then ATS is no different then any other website.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

While we're at it, why not teach little kids that Democrats have historically opposed civil rights for blacks, that Democrats invented the Ku Klux Klan, and that Democrats fought civil rights reform right through the 1960s?

Why aren't we teaching little kids that the Republicans are the champions of black emancipation, that Republicans have historically always upheld equal rights for blacks (and all races, for that matter)?



So Doc. Did you really mean liberal every time you wrote democrat and conservative when you wrote republican? Or do "democrat/republican jerseys" still "have nothing to do with liberal and conservative ideologies?"

[edit on 10-12-2009 by winston37]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
at the worst, it seems like a nice show that shows the art of speech writing/performing.


At best, The People Speak is just another example of the left-leaning editorialism that we see regularly on the History Channel — other examples include the hysteric propaganda on manmade climate change (which is an entirely debatable theory and nothing more), as well as the plethora of doomsday scenario programs offered up as "scientific speculation" (another term for guessing). This type of programming is intended to frighten the masses; and instilling fear in the masses is the most important step to controlling the masses.

At worst, The People Speak is superfluous liberal indoctrination that is being marketed as "the truth" behind the history we are typically taught in school. But wait... our public schools and institutions of higher learning have been infiltrated by liberalism and socialism for nearly 50 years. Does this mean that The People Speak is going to refute the liberal garbage that has infected millions of young minds over a half century? No, of course not... Rather, it's validating the liberal garbage that has infected young minds for a half century.

Presently, our kids are attending 12 years of mandatory public schooling, and they're coming out unqualified to flip a hamburger. They can hardly compose coherent sentences, and they can't find their own nation on a map of the globe, but they already have political opinions.

Which is preposterous. A poor education is the last place to look for a political opinion.

Our liberal school system has failed our students for decades, and the quality of education is still on a steady decline. About that there is no argument. Piping The People Speak into our homes — so we can further glorify a failed liberal educational system — is nothing less than validating failure.

I'm not saying that all of the History Channel's programming is Leftist propaganda. Some of it is left-of-center. But I've never seen any strictly conservative programming on the History Channel (nor anywhere else on the Discovery network).

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by winston37
So Doc. Did you really mean liberal every time you wrote democrat and conservative when you wrote republican? Or do "democrat/republican jerseys" still "have nothing to do with liberal and conservative ideologies?"


When I write "Democrat," I mean Democrat. When I write "Republican," I mean Republican. When I refer to liberalism and conservatism, I'm referring to those ideologies.

Now, when I see liberal revisionists writing that Republicans should be ashamed of the historical "scab of racism" on their party, I do feel inclined to jump in and correct them. Whereupon I'm accused of being a neocon, a racist and, worse yet, a Republican.

— Doc Velocity






[edit on 12/10/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by winston37
I [write G_d] out of courtesy for those that believe it shouldn't be written; simple as that.


So, you do it out of courtesy to the tiny minority of people who don't believe in God, but you have no problem flipping off the remaining 95% of the human race who do believe in God or gods.

Whatever floats your boat.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by nunya13
I'm confused as to how being taught the truth turns you into a socialist. If that's the case, I guess I'm a raging socialist because I LOVE the truth and will teach it to my kids if schools don't.


Zinn is an acknowledged socialist and has been so for more decades than most of you have been alive. Zinn's "truth" is Zinn's truth, which places a higher value on negative aspects of our nation's history than on the positive aspects. If I say, America's founders were courageous and honorable in defying their British central government, Howard Zinn would say, America's founders were racist hypocrites for seeking freedom for whites only.

If that's the "truth" you want to teach your kids, fine, you're welcome to it. And if you need any educational props, Howard Zinn would gladly supply you with grisly photographs of negroes being lynched — that's his idea of spreading the truth to kids in grade school.

I think it's sick. But I guess ya gotta make 'em hate America at a young age these days.

— Doc Velocity






[edit on 12/11/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Zinn's "truth" is Zinn's truth, which places a higher value on negative aspects of our nation's history than on the positive aspects. If I say, America's founders were courageous and honorable in defying their British central government, Howard Zinn would say, America's founders were racist hypocrites for seeking freedom for whites only.


the fact is, there's truth in both points of view and the truth lies somewhere in between. educating children by only offering one perspective is stupid, short sighted and incredibly patronising, no matter which perspective is offered.

any police officer will tell you that the number of different accounts of any given incident is exactly the same as the number of people that witnessed it.

weather any given president was a racist scumbag or a liberating hero entirely depends on who you ask. the slave that washed his underwear might have a different opinion to the general that followed him into battle.

children are perfectly well able to hear both sides (as well as three more) and decide how they feel about it themselves.

given the stupid and pointless left/right arguements we witness here on ATS every day, theaching children to see things from multiple perspectives seems like a bloody good idea.

[edit on 11/12/09 by pieman]



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by concernedcitizan
Sure Zinn has an agenda. But so does the OP. So do a lot of posters. If we can't find common ground and quit bashing one another then ATS is no different then any other website.


You hit the nail on the head.
Of course everyone has their agenda. Just like the writers of our history books. The history we all learned in school was incomplete. It was candy coated and a mere fraction of the whole of it. There is another side. And Zinn attempts to get it out there.

This program (The People Speak) contains actual speeches of our past. REAL history. How can that be "not the truth"? How can that be editorial or revisionist? It's words from actual speeches. Not necessarily the same ones we have heard in our history classes in high school, but some that we haven't heard. It IS the truth. They're reading from actual transcripts.

Like it or not, there is a very negative aspect to our country's history. It's part of the TRUTH. Sticking one's head in the sand, pretending that it never happened, and calling all the "bad stuff" editorial and revisionist is the most closed-minded, biased thing one can do.

If you can be humbled and feel pride and joy in our forefathers' positive accomplishments and actions, then it's only fair to be embarrassed and ashamed of some of the things they did, too. To do anything else is to ignore one whole side of the story and live in a fantasy world. It's OK to feel proud of this country! It's wonderful in fact! But it's also OK to be ashamed of some of the atrocities that took place in the name of freedom and justice.

If you want the truth, then get it all. If you just want the warm and fluffy stuff, then don't pretend like you're searching for any kind of truth.



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