the shrine of the Black Madona

I found this weird. I am a black man. I went to poland one year with my fam. There were so man skin heads that I thought I was gonna get jumped. But what really suppriised me is that people would come up to my little sister and say "madona madona" . I didn't know what they were talking about until I went to a shop and saw copies of the shrie. It was supposed to be painted by St. luke. This proves to me with out a doubt the Jesus was Black. Even though this was an eye opener to me I think what is most important is what he stood for and not the color of his skin. I wonder why the church would change his skin color? I wish slaves would of known this, they peobably would have broke down and cried. This is just another story of a black man killed for what he believed in just like martin and malcom.

check out this site

www.marypages.com...

I hate to burst your bubble but on the link you gave, explains why the Madonna is black.

It is known as the black Madonna because the soot residue which discolours the painting. The soot is the result of centuries of votive lights and candles burning in front of the painting.

It's always been my understanding that the cult of the Black Madonna was associated with esoteric & ancient mystery schools of mysticism. I understand the Black Madonna to actually be a representation of the Egyptian Goddess Isis. I believe the Cathars were persecuted during the middle ages for their continued rejection of the Roman Catholic church and secret worship of Isis, disguised as a Black Virgin, or Madonna.

I'll present some information below with the relevent links for your consideration and study:

"The Black Madonna cult is central to the Priory (of Sion). To them at least, there is no doubt about the significance of the Black Madonna. Pierre Plantard de Saint-Clair writes explicitly, 'The Black Virgin is Isis and her name is Notre Dame de Lumiere (Our Lady of the Lights)."

The story of the Black Madonna has the quality of the profound mysteries. It has therefore a heretical secret which cannot be revealed in writing, but only transmitted by the oral tradition, a privilege of the initiated. From what can be revealed through writing, we have the historical registry which sends us to the worship of Mother Earth, the Great Mother, the Goddess.

In the Egyptian and Greek religions the soul is represented by the bird who always followed the Goddess Mothers and which follows the Black Madonna like the Holy Ghost follows Mary.

"Isis. . .was worshipped as a holy virgin. But although she was also mother of Horus, this presented no problem to the minds of her millions of followers. For whereas modern Christians are expected to accept the Virgin birth as an article of faith and an actual historical event, the followers of Isis (Isians) and other pagans faced no such intellectual dilemma. To them, Zeus, Venus or Ma'at may or may not have once walked the earth: what mattered was what they embodied. Each of the pantheon ruled over his or her own area of human life; for example, the Egyptian goddess Ma'at dealt with the concept of justice, both in the material world and when the souls of the dead were weighed in the balance. The gods were understood to be living archetypes, not historical characters. Isians did not waste their time searching for cloths that may have wrapped the body of Osiris, nor did they consider it important to find splinters of the box in which he was confined. Far from being an unsophisticated and ignorant religion, theirs appears to have had a profound grasp of the human psyche.

"Isis was worshipped as both Virgin and Mother -- but not as a Virgin Mother. Isians would have considered the notion of the Virgin birth frankly ridiculous: the gods may be capable of wonders, but they do not demand that their worshippers suspend their disbelief quite so much. The worship of most major goddesses emphasized their essential femininity by dividing it up into three main aspects , each representing the lifecycle of real women. First, there is the Virgin, then the Mother, then the Crone; all three are also linked to the new moon, the full moon and the dark side of the moon. Each goddess, including Isis, was understood to stand for the whole female experience, including sexual love, and therefore could be invoked to help a woman with any kind of problem -- unlike the Virgin Mary whose own personal purity is an impenetrable barrier for those who would like to share their sexual problems with her. Isis, a full-blooded woman who represents a complete female lifecycle. Isis, a beautiful girl-goddess to whom women could pray, with a clear conscience, about absolutely anything, appealed to women from all cultures."

She shows up in Sumeria as the super popular Inanna with a double personality: in the morning she is the valuable "Lady of the Battles", goddess of the heroes, and in the evening she be comes the goddess of fertility, of the pleasures of love. She fertilizes the grains, the earth and the man. She does not be long to one man only, but to several. Her priestesses are the "sacred prostitutes" who, like the virgins who do not belong to any man, metaphorically they do not belong to any because they belong to all. They have a multiple womb which belongs to all men, for theirs is the womb of the goddess Inanna - Mother Earth - which they will become. The cult to Inanna had in the sexual act its main practice, because it re-established the original androgyny through the sacred prostitution.

We see Mother Earth be worshiped as Ishtar in Babylonia, and later as Isis in Egypt, and as Astarte among the Hebrews. In Frigia she appears as Cybele (Diana of the nine fires, indicating fertility.

As a Greek goddess she receives the name of Rea, Gaia or Demeter, always goddess, profound, mysterious and dark. Her Roman equivalents are Tellus, Ceres and Maia.

Still in Egypt Mother Earth appears as Neith, the oldest and wisest of the goddesses. Protector of the dead and of the war, she was head of the practical arts. She is the night sky which bends over the earth, forming with her hands and feet the gates of Life and Death. The first-born androgynous is a virgin who fertilized herself, bringing the life she produced to all the worlds.

The Celtic goddess Mother Earth is Annis (or Anu) and her cult reaches Europe.

In the early days of the 'comparative religions' discipline, authors casually equated the 'Black Virgins' venerated by Catholics with pagan goddess images of similar appearance, providing some with a polemic argument against the Catholic Church. More recently, some feminist writers have suggested the Black Madonna as indicating a perspective on Mary underemphasized in traditional Christian doctrine. In any case, Black Madonnas have proved themselves as devotional aids within ecclesial life over the course of centuries. Many of these images have received approval from ecclesiastical authority in light of the divine approval manifested by well-attested miracles (subsequently approved by Church leadership).

Actually the worship of the virgin, Black "Mother of God" with her God-begotten child, far predates Christianity and prevailed throughout the ancient world.

Historians recognize that the statue of the Egyptian Goddess Isis with her child Horus in her arms was the first Madonna and Child. They were renamed Mary and Jesus when Europe was forcibly Christianized. The worship of Isis and Horus was especially popular in ancient Rome. "Roman legions carried this figure of Black Isis holding the Black infant Horus all over Europe where shrines were established to her. So holy and venerate were these shrines that when Christianity invaded Europe, these figures of the Black Isis holding the Black Horus were not destroyed but turned into figures of the Black Madonna and Child. Today these are still the holiest shrines in Catholic Europe." 1 Titles such as Our Lady, The Great Mother, are the same titles attributed to Isis! The word "Madonna" itself is from mater domina, a title used for Isis! The month of May, which was dedicated to the heathen Virgin Mothers, is also the month Mary, the Christian Virgin.

In Bible Myths, T.W. Doane devotes a chapter to The Worship of the Virgin Mother, where he candidly states, "The whole secret of the fact of these early representations of the Virgin Mary and Jesus - so called-being black, crowned, and covered with jewels, is that they are of pre-Christian origin; they are Isis and Horus... baptized anew."

The female principle outlines an emerging movement during the Gothic Renaissance. In France, in the 12th century, there is a religious and knightly order surrounded by mysteries. The Order of the Priorate of Our Lady of Sion. It is passionately interested in the cult of the Goddess Mothers, now already in the Christianised figure of the Black Madonna. Her most important historical contribution was an amazing precedent in the struggle for the equal rights of women.

The Black Madonna became consistently present after the Crusades. Especially the Knight Templars, who brought to their countries small statues of black Virgins which were considered exotic pagan representations. The great celebration of the Knight Templars was Pentecost, day of the Holy Ghost and, as we have seen, the Dove belongs to Mother Earth as the Holy Ghost belongs to Mary.

Pentecost was also the great Arthurian celebration of the Holy Grail, object of the sacred search which appears at this time. The Knight Templars became part of history as the Grail's guardians. The Holy Grail protected the earth, nourished it and granted it fertility, powers similar to those of the Mother Earth and the Black Madonna. The female principle is revealed in the Grail, as was also the cult to the worship of Love practiced by the Troubadours through their total dedication to the Lady.

Most Indo-Tibetan scholars believe that the Hindu and Buddhist Dark Goddesses and the Christian Black Madonna are a common prototype with a common Archetypal source in antiquity or eternity.

In Eastern traditions, the Black Madonna motif appears as the Dark Goddesses exemplified by Kali, the frightful creator/destroyer. In Buddhism, Kali takes the form of Vajravahari, the consort of the Black Samvara and Kali's nature is reflected in a retinue of disciples who attend to the Tantric couple. Vajrahari and the Dakinis are said to inhabit cemetery grounds and wear necklaces and skirts made from human skeletons and skulls.


Links below:

www.tranceform.org...

saxakali.com...

www.udayton.edu...

www.heal-all.com...

watch.pair.com...

malcom x was killied because he broke the commands of god of
loving (everybody) every creature.

he believed all whites were evil, he preached that all whites were a curse. his agenda was
islamic fundamnetalism.

this is why god allows sudden deaths, if you break the law of love and the law of the lord your end will be destruction.

and i still cant believe he held such views, knowing im white, im not evil, ill suffer for all souls. (judgement) and (hate) are the ultimate sins and
he broke both of them.

no better than the kkk imo.

while martin did not believe all whites were evil he broke from the catholic church, preached the new age movement contrary to biblical teaching.


to me and this is my opinion.

a theology where one full race is evil is the theology of satan.

preaching the new age movement just for (peace) is preaching contrary to the lord christ.


peace.

oh dear

if malcolm died for those reasons then there should be an awful lot of people on this planet suddenly falling down dead, however your point is somewhat disproved by the fact many utterly evil people have lived long lives and died in their beds.

fair enough you're entitled to your opinion, but it seems a tad simplistic in my view

and martin broke away from the catholic church? dear me what a crime that was!

the church is just one way amongst many - would you agree that if people are seeking the same goal than the god they do it under and the rituals they practise can be different? Thats if they do it in god's name at all and not just in the name of common decency and love for their fellow creatures

which in my eyes has always been the point of jesus's teachings

Truth: I've never heard that Dr. Martin Luther King was a New Ager - fundamental Baptist preacher and civil rights activist, yes.

I'd love to read more about that, would you please provide me with some reputable links?

Good luck,
Deep

true, i believe evil men live sometimes long, but, in this case
malcom was spreading on a (wide) scale reaching alot of people and brainwashing them that
all whites were evil, all were cursed.

to me this is the theology of satan.

and how many of his followers praise him today?

the cycle will not end until god himself ends this mess.


as for martin..

christ taught the teachings of love.

he also created a church, with governed apostles with the sacraments of perfection.

his one and only church he sent to man with his (new) sacrafice and convenant.


read my signature, i dont only believe its the true church but i know it is.

and martin preached contrary to the teaching of christ by promoting the new age movement where all religions are
true where peace is the goal in the name of falsehood.

imo.

peace.

mad scientists.

malcom x teached that (all) white were evil, cursed.

i cannot and will not praise or call this man a good man. what he died for is the cause of satan.

no better than the evil kkk belief.

dw, ill find some links and provide them to you.

peace.

you can believe all you like, and respect to you for it.

but knowing????? please explain that one to me

if your evidence is the bible then bear in mind that book was not written by just one person who was involved in all the events it covers. The bible is a combination of many people's views written over a vast period of time. Some of the people tried to write the truth, some were just poor journalists, and often they were writing about events centuries after they happened with few facts at their disposal.

And it was written in many languages which sometimes got translated badly. Did you know messiah actually stands for something like 'king in waiting' and doesn't have any reference to god at all?


however this is now completely off topic, which is a shame as its a good one. Deep water that was a very interesting post and I will be investigating those links at length

Just pointing out a few holes in this info (& to add some extra background info), which is just probably nothing more than a misundertanding of what different people actually *mean* when they use the term "black". In effect, when some people use the term "black" they specifically mean those people with *very* dark skin, like native Mid/South African peoples...Once getting further north, the Egyptians were not quite as dark-skinned, but they're still referred to as "black". Then getting even further north, some other people use the term "black" for the Semite-origin peoples, even though they're noticably lighter than the Egyptians were.
My own personal use of the term (as well as others who *do* make such distinctions against the improper usage of the term) "black" refers strictly to those people of the darkest skin color...Egyptians would be called "deep bronzed", Semites would be "bronzed", etc. It's just a matter of calling the colors like they *are* rather than using a word like "black" to encompass such a wide range of color.

But, onto the "holes (& additions) in the info" that I mentioned before:

Originally posted by deepwaters I understand the Black Madonna to actually be a representation of the Egyptian Goddess Isis.

Well, the use of the the name "Black Madonna" in reference to Isis (The Egyptian Goddess) is faulty for the reason I've already mentioned above...People use that name simply because they've used the term "black" to encompass such a side range of color.

Originally posted by deepwaters I believe the Cathars were persecuted during the middle ages for their continued rejection of the Roman Catholic church and secret worship of Isis, disguised as a Black Virgin, or Madonna.

I couldn't say whether this is true or not...I'm not really up on the *details* on why the Cathers were persecuted. I'm familiar with the *general* history, but not up so much on the details about it.

Originally posted by deepwaters From what can be revealed through writing, we have the historical registry which sends us to the worship of Mother Earth, the Great Mother, the Goddess.

This may even tie in with the Egyptians own language that refers to their country as "The Two Lands"...The Red Lands, which referred to the inhospitable red sands of the desert & the Black Lands, which were the fertile soil brought in by the yearly innundation of the Nile river. The silt was quite black & fertile enough for very high crop yeilds...Hence, the "fertility" of Mother Earth would indeed tie in with the the term "black".

Originally posted by deepwaters Isis. . .was worshipped as a holy virgin. But although she was also mother of Horus, this presented no problem to the minds of her millions of followers.

The reason that this presented no problem is due to the Osiris/Seth cycle...Seth murdered his brother Osiris & cut him into many pieces, to be scattered across the length & breadth of Egypt. Isis, wife of Osiris (& his sister as well) had gathered up the pieces of Osiris & put him back together, resurrecting him as the new God of the Afterlife. However, Isis couldn't find Osiris' penis (which was eaten by a fish), so it rendered Osiris dysfunctional for procreation purposes...But somehow he still fathered Horus, who went on to become Seth's fiercest enemy.

Originally posted by deepwaters Actually the worship of the virgin, Black "Mother of God" with her God-begotten child, far predates Christianity and prevailed throughout the ancient world.

True. Nearly (if not all) cultures throughout known history told tales of virgin births. From the Sumerians up to the modern-day religions, there's a virgin birth mentioned *somewhere* within the religion. The religions based upon Christianity seem to be the only religions to put such a level of *emphasis* & *importance* upon the virgin birth.

Originally posted by deepwaters The Holy Grail protected the earth, nourished it and granted it fertility, powers similar to those of the Mother Earth and the Black Madonna. The female principle is revealed in the Grail...
This correlation is even evident within the Druidic (modern day Wiccan) practices...Cups represented the feminine aspects of religious beliefs, while wands represented the male aspects. You can even see the correlation between the *shape* of the objects used in rituals to the *gender* of its function.

All in all, there's very little else that I can add to Deepwater's post...Good research, dude!

[Edited on 25-2-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

Am I the only person skeptical enough to wonder if the painting and story is real?

Chances of a painting lasting 2000 yeats are slim at best, it could just as easily be one of those millions of medieval forgeries passed of as religious ikons .. like all those bits of bone and wood from the true cross.


If the pic is behind the man, then what is the closeup of it? It doesn't seem to be any one the ones on the page....




I think its this one, but if white turned to black so carefully then the rest of the painting would be totally black

The face is very european as well, thin nose small lips etc...

[Edited on 25-2-2003 by Netchicken]

I almost burst into flames reading this.

no hope in sight, peace.... Jesus was indeed BLACK... the same reason why they cut off the nose off the spinx is the same reason why they portray Jesus was a white man... RACISM

the madonna was BLACK...adam and eve.. BLACK..

black is the foundation for all colored people, blacks were on this earth first and it's a fact that the african man is the oldest race on this earth.

we're the asiatic original man... dont let these people fool you when try to say jesus was white.. NO he wasnt..

black is the combination of all colors but WHITE... white is the lack there of.


I'm about too go crazy on truth , this man has no clue on what he talks about.
i cant believe it... he must have balls made of steel to actually say something like that about Malcolm knowing a man by the name of Illmatic67 roams around this messageboard looking for idiotic posts like that of truth.

let's begin:

malcom x was killied because he broke the commands of god of
loving (everybody) every creature.

NO

first of all, who are you to say Malcolm X was killed because he broke God's command?? if this was the case, he would've been shot way before 1965..

you know nothing about Malcolm X, and i know this for a FACT. because if you did, you'd know that Malcolm X didnt go to the grave believing the white man was devil..
yes , he did call whites the devil, why? because of the white man's history toward non-whites.. yea you might not think the white man is the devil, but his acts in history surely are devilish... look it up in history..

you know how many times Malcolm X could've died before 1965? GOD WAS PROTECTING HIM..

how dare you say Malcolm X was evil.. do you know what he did to the blacks in the 50's and 60's?? DO YOU HAVE ANY CLUE? he gave us SELF RESPECT! in a era where black people were ashamed to be black, he gave us a reason to boast about being black, had it not been for him.

the black man back then had no image, no dignity, no NOTHING.. he let the white man trample on him day by day.. why? he was turning the other cheek... Malcolm X gave us our dignity back.. something MLK didnt do..

Malcolm X was the greatest revolutionary and the greatest black man to ever walk in America, EVER.

have you read on him? have you seen his speeches? i Have.. i have all of them on video cassette and dvd.


how can you say he was brainwashing blacks to think whites were evil? are you stupid?

whites were brainwashing blacks to think they were NOBODY.




Malcolm X left from the Nation of Islam (I'm sorry but I need to go into depth for truth, he's historically retarded, dont blame him though, blame christianity)

the nation of islam was so different from true Islam... NOI taught racism, Islam didnt

when he took the Hajj Pilgrammage of 1963, he found TRUE Islam

"For the past week, I have been utterly speechless and spellbound by the graciousness I see displayed all around me by people of all colors....There were thens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue eyed blonds to black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in america had led me to believe never could exist between whites and non-white... I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood praticed by all colors together, irrespective of their color....

"we were truly all the same brothers- because their belief in one God had removed the 'white' from their mind..."

- al-Hajj Malik al-Shabazz
(Malcolm X)

see truth, Malcolm X came back to America a changed man, he went through a big change in Mecca.. he was no longer racist.. he loved all people and now was a man for all colors... he came back, gave a press conference delcaring himself a "changed man"

Malcolm X, one of my hero's, wasn't shot because he hated whites, he was shot and killed because he LOVED whites.. he was killed by the NOI and FBI.. NOI because he was now taking shots at NOI and Elijah Muhammad for misguiding the blacks in america for thinking the white man is the devil

the fbi wanted him dead because a week after he was killed, he was going to the United Nations and was going to charge USA with the genocide against the native americas and indict america with injustice towards blacks..

THAT'S why he was killed.

I was just about to reply to what turth and others said. But u cleared it up no need. All this hate, it's sad

You and Illmatic take it the wrong way, maybe its because you are "race sensitised" and expect discrimination, or maybe its a victim culture that you maybe subconsciously are a part of - "why pick on me all white dudes picks on me".

It not a race issue if Jesus was black its a TRUTH issue.

So far I have seen no indication to show that Jesus was black, apart from a few selected and twisted bible verses which I quickly disproved. Get over it guys and see your obsession with it for the ego enhancing self esteem raising crutch it is.

The world does not revolve around the black man, nor the white man, as the world is defined by the cultural group you belong to.

So a chinese person in china would laugh himself silly at your comments about black being the heart of man etc, you are taking something from your own black ethnicity(truth irrelevent) and expecting people from a white ethnicity to believe it. What do you expect, open arms and kisses, for what I personally consider to be an ethnic myth?

Insread of reciting trite black political slogans as above instead try rising above the victim mentality that sees this and every topic or person who disagrees as an "oppress the downtrodden blacks" issue because in my case I don't accept it.

Originally posted by N0_hope_in_sight
I was just about to reply to what turth and others said. But u cleared it up no need. All this hate, it's sad

[Edited on 26-2-2003 by Netchicken]

"His head and hair were like WOOL, as white as snow. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace" Revelation 1:14-15

Illmatic, seems to be the biggest racist on ATS. It seems that everything he posts immediately turns the thread into a race issue.
I don't know why you are trying to prove the black man superior.
Besides if Jesus was black why didn't he convert Africa to Christianity ?

um. why does it matter which race was on earth first? why argue about it? does it even matter? no.

it shouldnt matter, but because of whitewashing of history books it DOES matter

whenever the truth has been tainted by falsehood, the truth needs to come out and reveal itself

in this case, people see white portraits of adam and eve and think whites were here first, which is a .... lie....

I hate noone not even malcom or martin. i feel sorry they were brainwashed into
thinking all whites were evil.

you see its (all) about race with certain people, proving what race is superior, the exact
same thing the evil kkk do.

yes i said (evil) kkk.

malcom x taught and it is true that the blacks were (superior), they were first, while whites on the other hand are all blinded by their color
unless they convert to allah.

this is no better than kkk.

see theres the difference which i think you will never get..

Jesus teaches love for all men, NO race or people is superior, no race is cursed, ALL are creatures of the living god.

the reason white men in the early years were mostly biggots is because they had no conscience, they never seen blacks before, they were not living
by gods teachings.


So what if jesus was black.

is that what you want?

then what?

you say, i told you so, we are superior?

Illmatic you always make it seem like a race issue, you can never get over god creating everybody, instead you keep
pushing this pride race issue on everybody.

jesus is god, nomatter what color he is. i could care less. But you, would you care if he was white?

thats the difference.

the lord sees no color.


Now why did jesus say turn theother cheek?

He did not mean literally if you are attacked (dont) defend yourselfs.

he said this as a way to tell us that (give) (peace) a chance and for the (love) of the (other) soul (turn) the other cheek and show
him your love and patience.


how easy can we not understand what god is really saying?


lastly, i didnt say malcom was evil, a said what he preached comes from satan.

creatures of god have no color.

peace.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
it shouldnt matter, but because of whitewashing of history books it DOES matter

whenever the truth has been tainted by falsehood, the truth needs to come out and reveal itself

in this case, people see white portraits of adam and eve and think whites were here first, which is a .... lie....

You have no proof that it's a lie, just inuendo and straight out bull#.
You definately have a complex about white people. Which is a shame because it is only going to hold you back.
Besides do you really think it makes a difference to God ?