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" ... Christians are fleeing from all over the Middle East. Emigration began in the aftermath of World War I and has greatly picked up in the last decade. In Turkey, Christians constituted a population of 2 million in 1920 but now only some thousands remain. So severe is the problem that the Orthodox Patriarchate in Istanbul is in danger of collapsing for lack of large enough pool of candidates.
Christians earlier in this century represented about one-third of the Syrian population; now they account for less than 10 percent. In 1932, they composed 55 percent of the Lebanese population, now less than 30 percent. More than half the Christians of Iraq have left. Copts began leaving Egypt in significant numbers after the 1952 revolution.
The Christian population decline has two main causes: emigration and declining birth rates.
Emigration represents the end of a long process of exclusion and persecution. On the West Bank, a nearly-permanent Muslim boycott of Christian businesses is the problem. In Egypt, fundamentalist Muslims constantly target Christians. The Lebanese civil war of 1975-90, when reduced to its essentials, represented a successful effort by Muslims to reduce Christian power in the country. But by far the worst situation is in the Sudan, where the civil war that has been raging most of the time since 1956 has led to wholesale atrocities.
Declining birth rates can also be seen throughout the region. In Israel, for example, live births per thousand among Muslims comes to 37; among Christians, a mere 22 per thousand. In addition, the small number of Christians leads some to marry Muslims, which effectively means they are lost to their community.
At the present rate, the Middle East's 12 million Christians will likely drop to 6 million in the year 2020. With time, Christians will effectively disappear from the region as a cultural and political force. As one report puts it, "there are more Palestinians living in Bayt Jala in Chile than in Bayt Jala [on the West Bank] itself." Along similar lines, Prince El-Hassan bin Talal notes in this issue that "there are today more Christians from Jerusalem … living in Sydney, Australia, than in Jerusalem itself."
For many years, the plight of Middle East Christians attracted little attention in the outside world. The earlier protectors of their interests—the British, French, Russian, and Greek governments, as well as the Vatican—turned away from the current problems."
Originally posted by Sigismundus
Hi December Rain
Actiually the Turko-Ukranian Khazarian Conversion from Kiev based pagan goyim to Judaiesm (thereby producing the original Ashkenazim between AD 740 and AD 1003, when Khazaria dissolved after the war with the Muscovites and they were chased westward from greater Kiev into Europe) is discussed in depth by a real live Turko Ukranian Ashkenaz by the name of Arthur Koestler, a scholar who has written more than 22 books.
[lslamic history authority] Bernard Lewis stated in 1999:
"This theory… is supported by no evidence whatsoever. It has long since been abandoned by all serious scholars in the field, including those in Arab countries, where the Khazar theory is little used except in occasional political polemics."
"...The theory gained further support when the novelist Arthur Koestler devoted his popular book The Thirteenth Tribe (1976) to the topic. Koestler's historiography has been attacked as highly questionable by many historians; it has also been pointed out that his discussion of theories about Ashkenazi descent is entirely lacking scientific or historiographical support; to the extent that Koestler referred to place-names and documentary evidence his analysis has been described as a mixture of flawed etymologies and misinterpreted primary sources.
Commentors have also noted that Koestler mischaracterized the sources he cited, particularly D.M. Dunlop's History of the Jewish Khazars (1954). Dunlop himself stated that the theory that Eastern European Jews were the descendants of the Khazars, "... can be dealt with very shortly, because there is little evidence which bears directly upon it, and it unavoidably retains the character of a mere assumption." One other piece of evidence against the Khazar Theory is the near total lack of Turkic influence on the development of the Yiddish language spoken by Ashknenazic Jews.
Koestler himself was pro-Zionist based on secular considerations, and did not see alleged Khazar ancestry as diminishing the claim of Jews to Israel, which he felt was based on the United Nations mandate, and not on Biblical covenants or genetic inheritance. In his view, "The problem of the Khazar infusion a thousand years ago ... is irrelevant to modern Israel". In addition, he was apparently "either unaware of or oblivious to the use anti-Semites had made to the Khazar theory since its introduction at the turn of the century."
Nevertheless, in the Arab world the Khazar theory still enjoys popularity among some anti-Zionists and antisemites; Such proponents argue that if Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazar and not Semitic in origin, they would have no historical claim to Israel, nor would they be the subject of God's Biblical promise of Canaan to the Israelites, thus undermining the theological basis of both Jewish religious Zionists and Christian Zionists. In the 1970s and 80s the Khazar theory was also advanced by some Russian chauvinist antisemites, particularly the historian Lev Gumilyov, who portrayed "Judeo-Khazars" as having repeatedly sabotaged Russia's development since the 7th century.
A 1999 study by Hammer et al., published in the Proceedings of the United States National Academy of Sciences compared the Y chromosomes of Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian Jews with 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. It found that "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level...
The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."
According to Nicholas Wade "The results accord with Jewish history and tradition and refute theories like those holding that Jewish communities consist mostly of converts from other faiths, or that they are descended from the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that adopted Judaism."
A 2001 study by Nebel et al. found Haplogroup R1a chromosomes (called Eu 19 in the paper), which are very frequent in Eastern European populations (54%-60%), at elevated frequency (12.7%) in Ashkenazi Jews. The authors hypothesized that these chromosomes could reflect low-level gene flow into Ashkenazi populations from surrounding Eastern European populations, or, alternatively, that both the Ashkenazi Jews in Haplogroup R1a, and to a greater extent all Eastern European populations in general, might have some partial Khazar ancestry.
A 2003 study of the Y-chromosome by Behar et al. found that among Ashkenazi Levites, who comprise approximately 4% of Ashkenazi Jews, the prevalence of Haplogroup R1a1 was over 50%. This haplogroup is uncommon in other Jewish groups, but found in high frequencies in eastern European populations. They argued that "it is likely that the event leading to a high frequency of R1a1 NRYs within the Ashkenazi Levites involved very few, and possibly only one, founding father."
They postulated that one likely source of the gene was a "a founder(s) of non-Jewish European ancestry, whose descendents were able to assume Levite status", and that an alternate "attractive source would be the Khazarian Kingdom, whose ruling class is thought to have converted to Judaism in the 8th or 9th century."
The concluded that "although neither the NRY haplogroup composition of the majority of Ashkenazi Jews nor the microsatellite haplotype composition of the R1a1 haplogroup within Ashkenazi Levites is consistent with a major Khazar or other European origin, as has been speculated by some authors (Baron 1957; Dunlop 1967; Ben-Sasson 1976; Keys 1999), one cannot rule out the important contribution of a single or a few founders among contemporary Ashkenazi Levites."
A 2005 study by Nebel et al., based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, showed that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to their local neighbouring populations in Europe. However, 11.5% of male Ashkenazim were found to belong to Haplogroup R1a1 (R-M17), the dominant Y chromosome haplogroup in Eastern Europeans, suggesting possible gene flow between the two groups. The authors hypothesized that "R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazim may represent vestiges of the mysterious Khazars".
They concluded "However, if the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed ~ 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim."
Originally posted by Sigismundus
Actually Arthur Koestler's book was published in 2000 not in the 1970s and recent DNA evidence from 2001-2005 has indeed supported his claims of a Khazar origin to the Ashkenazi origins in Kiev and its environs. In fact /DNA testing results out of Madrid in 2002/3 were actively supressed by a group of influential Spanish publishers and other right wing racist supporters of World Zionism and the findings pulled off the shelves...so it will be clear over the next 20 years (when genetic testing really becomes a lot more specific and accurate than it is even today and can be compared against genetic samples from say, ancient Cannaanites and benei-Yisroel) that the modern group styling themselves 'Ashkenazim' are going to be in for a VERY rude awakening...I'll post some recent developments later this week for you when I get some time during this Saturnalia...er...Yuletide so stay tuned for a LOT more !
Originally posted by buds84
reply to post by mmiichael
You're going to have a hard time proving Jews along with Rothschilds and Rockefellers are actually Israelites seeing as they miss the description by a long shot.
They are actually Anti-Christs(which means "instead" of Christ) and the Bible did a good job of describing them and what they will do. Esau/Edom is who they are, it reads like a checklist in the Bible.
Wikipedia isn't reliable when it comes to getting incriminating information on Jews. Wikipedia is here so anyone can write history after a night at the bar.
BTW when the book The Thirteenth Tribe by Koestler came out, the Jews bought out every copy they could from the stores because of the incriminating information in it they didn't want getting out, they then put out an edited version that had parts taken out, thats why there are two versions of the book, too bad the old version got out and many people got a hold of it.
Originally posted by Sigismundus
Originally posted by Sigismundus
This information is NOT pseudo-scholarship nor is it wacko left-field scientific nonsense but is merely highly EXPLOSIVE (politically and religiously dangerious) information that is NOT easily digested by persons who hold on to their 'sacred origin myths' (at least, until recently) with the common masses of people any more than the Ashkeanzi Khazarian goyim-conversion history will readilly come out on the 'national press'...it will gradually be leaked to the world over time so as not to cause anguish among 'believers' in the 'zionist myth' which has done nore harm to humanity than good over the centuries and (like the idea of a single inspired divine text for the 'bible' rammed down the throats of gullible believers) will eventually have to be jettisoned altogether--and bring modern 'reform' (i.e. cleaned up) Judaeism back into the fold of a non-racist, non-sexist humanity where ALL people are created equal and there are no master races...er...chosen people (I get my racist language mixed up some times) !!
Originally posted by Sigismundus
Run on sentences are half the fun on ATS threads...
If you really believe that the concept of a 'chosen people' is fully acceptable in the 21st century and does not represent the absolute height of arrogance, then I suppose we have no discussion here...if any concept is 'absurd' that one is--at least to thinking persons: hopefully you won't stoop to defending anything like it on this thread or anyone else...
The point of our discussion here is to argue that 'new information' (especially in these days of new and faster information where that information might be startling to some people, as it was to Prof Solomon Schechter of Cambridge way back in 1897 when he sent out his urgent memos not to publish what he had learned about the Khazarian conversion in the 9th and 10th centuries AD) that cuts down the sordid myths of the past (about anything or any group for that matter) that are not suppoorted by facts or material evidence (archaeology, for one) are never quickly or easily eradicated.