We are all want to be murders and rapist:

As I said "Man is filth". Not one soul on this forum can prove me wrong.

reply to post by drmeola


Totally agree with the poor prison situation... our politics are outdated for the new types of crimes we have. But thats is a different discussion.

I was just trying to explain the fact that men are underestimated for their ability to be such positive influences on society while women are still underestimated for their ability to be just as brutal as men.

"we all are murders and rapists?"
True. If you sincerely mean "ALL" and not just men.

Some passing thoughts, as we are shaped by society and the area we live in from birth through our last days. Different points in time, at 14 or 16 years of age a women unwed would be considered and old maid and this is were that expression comes from. Today in most states it is illegal to me wed before 18. Further back in time, like the movie clan of the cave bear, man strong the stronger the man the better choice of women he had to pick from the so called beet them over the head and drag them back to the cave. This is our nature, man strong providers the better the provider the better the choices, women want to be controlled on some level I do not mean abused, there are many forms of control, the women high power figured are ones whom want to control others, as in a lesbian relationship one is considered dominant as the other is more submissive. Another example could be found in a the movie, seven brides for seven brothers, the book they mentioned Sabine women and the plot, take the women away from there norm and they become yours, this is natural and they have a name for it like when a kidnapped person begins to sympathize with the kidnapper. Many lets say rich people in high power positions would at time say go to a madam to become for a short time a submissive. Until human rites came about more specifically the women’s movement and let me tell you a lot of women were against this whole movement, before this happened men would open doors pull out chairs and were by definition a gentleman, after the movement and even today ask any women what they are looking for the answer would always be a gentleman. Today we don’t open doors or give up our seats or open car doors for them, and the list goes on, not all the time but sometimes we do these things like in the beginning of a relationship for a few weeks maybe a few months but then it becomes I got you, open your own door. Even today women are crying about equal pay for the same job and I believe they should be paid equally. But that is just not always the case, why because as we have been molded by society and our surroundings the human nature is in our DNA from the beginning of time; it is natural for the man to be the problem solver the stronger and supporter of the family unit. Were the women is to be the emotional provider as in mothering the children. In the course of change these still lie deep under the skin and the more we try to get away from our true nature the more screwed up we become. Today we suffer from high divorce rates, always blaming others, and the women have been forced to become the providers taken up jobs and becoming the dominant of the species and the man becoming the submissive, as more and more stay at home parent is becoming the male of the species. This is indeed against the natural order of things. We always here about the good ole days and I agree divorce almost none, honest days work for pay, people helping each other just because it was the right thing to do, people worked together be it in the field for growing as the women kept up the house hold chores or help a neighbor raise a barn or house as the women prepared food, only payment was a good meal for a job well done. This is the way it was, the way it should have always stayed and the way I wish all people would become again. It was a hard life in comparison but I would gladly live that life of honesty then the easy street we are riding on today. So to get back to the questions would we kill, yes for food and to protect as it was in the beginning it shall be in the end, will we rape yes for preservation of the species it wasn’t called rape but in the cave men days it was know as survival, stealing the other camps women to mate with to increase there numbers, this was natural. Today our clan is big enough so there is no need for such abductions or raping for population of the clan and not only human nature but natural in all species as humans compared to animal kingdom the only difference is we control the number of off spring were as in the animal kingdom they do not. So I will say again that we are all born killers and rapist it is in our DNA it is our true nature, only molded or forced so deep down inside that it now becomes nothing more than the passing thought for most of society including me I have no desire to kill or rape my wife of 14 years now is still my only sexual partner I desire, sp except the few that were unable to resist there natural born instincts to kill or be killed to procreate or die as a species. I will leave you with those thoughts and once again look forward to our on going discussion.

Didn't read the whole thread so apologies if someone already stated this, but Freud, among others, stated that human beings are inherently evil so the little bit I read of this thread doesn't surprise me one bit.

reply to post by oneclickaway


Yes that's right. All us men are evil...filthy...rapists-in-waiting for the laws to lax for even a second. I know I am gonna head out and murder the SECOND the laws change

What a horrifically ignorant post. Don't sit and consider all women far superior and more moral than us silly rapist men. So let's have a look at some of your statements.

Have any of you ever contemplated the act of sexual union as anything other than a selfish act of animalistic self gratification.

All the time thank you. My wife is not an object and never has been. And before you cry about how I am just doing this to garner female attention feel free to look through my posts. You'll come to the resounding realisation that this is my theme...equality and respect. Also, yes I am aware I have a terribly beautiful woman for my avatar. I am aware of the irony you may want to attach to this sentiment but it is possible to appreciate beauty without wanting to take. The woman in my avatar (Billie Piper) is in my opinion an extraodinarily beautiful woman. But that doesn't change a few hard facts.

1. I happen to think my wife is much more beautiful because of her spirt, heart, mind and (oh goodness no!) yes even her body and face. When exactly did physical attraction become such a horrific device?

2. That does NOT mean I look at a 200 pound girl and fail to find beauty.

3. That does NOT mean I would rape Billie Piper.

HarlequinRaven...you feel free to look her up and U2U her and ask about how I treat her. You might be surprised to find a truly developed man behind this sexy avatar. Now with that said...I am not special. I have met many men who share the same aspects that I do. They love and cherish their wives and girlfriends and just the same I have met many women who are manipulative and controlling to a degree I couldn't personally fathom. I study psychology. I am attending a masters degree starting August to become a psychologist. Before that I was a paramedic in a semi large city in Illinois. So here is a deal I will make you. You don't judge men by some bad examples and I promise I won't judge your gender by some of the controlling, depraved and sick women I have personally met and interviewed. Women who beat their children with a vaccuum cord and pretend the child started it. Women who use their men for only money. If you believe men are not advanced then I implore you to look at some of the lovely examples women portray today.

Now...that was a bit more of a personal issue

So let's look at some reality about our spiritually advanced sisters

Teen Girl Violence

Girl Bullying (which is about control)

Why Girls Bully

We see stories of our young girls killing themselves because of the osychological torture inflicted by other girls. Ostracizing, cruel jokes and the all new cyber-bullying. And don't dare tell me women aren't just as shallow as men are. Again I point to my avatar. Some men may drool over it. So what? I can find several women who will have the same Pavlovian response to Johnny Depp or in the case of younger girls, to the Jonas Brothers. (or some other example)

Many guys like me with a reasonably pure heart remember being in high school. Now I wasn't a terribly attractive kid. Bowl cut, a bit fat, and my face wasn't that of a jock. I even played sports and yet where was my girlfriend? Not there...But there was something very telling about some of the female gender I found out. They like status just as much as us men do.

I got my first girlfriend at 16. She was stunning and beautiful. A cheerleader...but how? We didn't date long but how would this chubby and ugly little duckling garner the attention of such a beautiful gal? Was it my pure heart? No she mostly wanted to make out for a short while. Was it my rugged good looks? No clearly not because before this, I had asked this girl out and she refused. Could it be the fact that my father died and due to a lawsuit we got some money and I now had a horse? BINGO! That girl ALWAYS wanted to go to the barn. Second we got there I was dropped like a bad habit and the horses got all the attention.

Frankly I think if every human, male and female, were forced via drugs to be honest then two things would happen.

1. We would hear each other's inner secrets and all turn to shock and horror and dismay.

2. We would finally be able to move past our dark sides. We're repressed. No I am not talking about the repression of religion or law or man or woman. I am talking about self repression. Obviously I do not know you. I won't claim to know you but I'll be darned if I wouldn't wager my paycheck that you have had some evil thoughts in your life too.

Now this to me is a hallmark essay. Written by a woman I might add about female agression. Is it lower or simply ignored?

Female Agression Study

Some people seem to think that agression should only be considered in the form of assault, rape or murder. No we 'boys' are not the only agressive ones because we are defined by our physical violence while girls are ignored and continue to haze and destroy the sanity of other girls.

Female Serial Killers

No I am sorry. As a whole women are no better than us. We’re all good and we’re all evil. I believe that a lot of the evils of women are simply looked over (opinion of course but slowly we are finding this to be factual)

Like I said, my divine treatment of my wife is not all that special. I feel as a man I have progressed but I think when women look past their prejudgment they will find a lot more like me. Are there evil men? Heck yes! Are their controlling men? Pssh…you got it sister. Plenty of them. But that doesn’t make the entire male species bad and that doesn’t make them the majority

Besides…I can find plenty of your gender who are just as bad if not worse.

Why such a long response? Because I am tired of this. The same old story. Girls are cute and lovely and boys are all nasty and evil.

EDIT: Final note...let me reiterate again that this post, largely against women, was merely to refute the arguments of the poster and not my true feelings on women. I hold them in high regard...but I hold men the same until either of them prove me wrong. We are equal...IF we get past prejudices.

-Kyo


[edit on 29-4-2010 by KyoZero]

Disappointing to see so many people climbing onto their Moral High Horses without thinking about the topic and answering honestly.

Lord of the Flies anyone?

Your morals and actions while living in a civilised society might be vastly different if you were to find yourselves in a place with no laws and rules. Think about how different your mindset would be - I won't be judged by others, I won't end up in jail, I won't be reported, I won't have to answer for the actions I take. I can't rely on the supermarket for food. I go down to the store for a tent and sleeping bag.

It would take somebody with a breathtakingly empathetic and compassionate aptitude to "follow the rules" and "abide by the law" in a place where neither exist.

[edit on 29/4/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by KyoZero


I don't blame you for feeling this way. We live in a society where misandy is thriving. Look at the news, read the paper, listen to the radio or browse the internet. The same pattern emerges:
"Men are evil, selfish, violent, crazy, sex-obsessed, immoral fiends just waiting to prey on women and children."

This idea is enforced every day at every opportunity. Incidents involving male on female crime is emphasised and exaggerated. Crime committed by women is downplayed and ignored in many cases. It is seen as trivial and less deserving of attention.

Of course, those that speak up about these issues are labelled "right-wing, patriarchal pigs" who hate women and do not care about women rights.

We live in sad times.

[edit on 29/4/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by drmeola


OP...sorry for my diversion

Now then...I know you were looking for a trained psychologist...will you accept a graduate student of psychology?

A little caveat...I am NOT NOT NOT saying my word is infallible. I am merely trying to throw out what I have found with studies. First off I am not yet licensed. As stated I am a graduate student of Psychology. My major is Clinical Therapy – Adolescent Track. I chose this track because my ultimate goal is to attend to teenagers and children who were victims of sexual and physical abuse. My PhD (when I reach that level) will be in Forensic Psychology – Sexual Abusers. I choose this because not only do I want to work with the victims, I want to work with the abusers as well to ultimately find a fix. I am a dreamer in that I believe anything can be healed but I am also realistic enough to understand that I won’t heal the world rather I hope to put my two cents in and help the cause.

As part of my training to get accepted into grad school I had to have some time behind a psychologist. I took a shadow position (where you follow a doctor to learn) in a psychological office but I also shadowed for a while in Cook County Jail and a stint in Pontiac DOC in Illinois. I was fortunate (I use that loosely) to be in the Cook County supermax facility and the Cermak house for a short while. I was able to view interviews with serial rapists and murderers. Although I did not personally come into contact with most, I was allowed to sit in on one interview with a serial rapist whose target was young girls. (although I was not allowed to talk, only take notes minus name and case-specific details)

What I have discovered personally (although I freely admit these are not superb revelations and not terribly original) is that there comes a point where a person who fantasizes or considers a heinous act crosses when it becomes realized. Often these people (especially spree killers and serial killers) are noted for their lesser compassion and lowered affect. Basically their ability to be empathetic and compassionate to others was damaged. Don’t get me wrong that doesn’t make the innocent or a victim.

Traits

An interest fairly recent tool in the study of the psychopathic mind comes in the form of the PET (Positron Emission Tomography). Essentially they can use a radioactive tracer and show which parts of the brain and hyperactive and hypoactive. A famous study called the Raine Study was conducted an 41 convicted murderers who pled innocent by reason of insanity.

Raine Study
Predisposition to Crime

Good articles. The LA-Times article is very in depth and very telling. Now let me switch gears for a moment and discuss a very core concept of psychology that some dismiss. It is called the stress-diathesis model.

Stress Diathesis Model

In summary the SD model essentially says that all conscious beings have, to some degree, the capability or predisposition to psychiatric disorder (ranging from mild to severe) and that there is a certain amount of external stress that can cause such disorders to manifest.

There are two variables; the intensity of the predisposition and the intensity and quality of the stressor. In essence a person who is very mildly predisposed to major depression needs a very large and intense stressor in order to cause the depression to surface. On the other hand a person who is highly predisposed to violence needs only a small external push in order to realize his/her violent goal.

So in essence as the predisposition rises, the need for external stress lowers and vice versa.

This same model can be used when looking at violent behavior and psychopathic and sociopathic activities. It’s an ugly thought but what I think is that every person alive and aware has the capability of violence but to varying degrees. You OP might have a very tiny predisposition to committing a violent act such as rape or murder and thus for you the stress it would take for those characteristics to manifest would be enormous. On the other hand, Albert Fish (infamous for killing and raping over 100 children) had a high disposition for such acts hence the stress to make him realize the crimes was quite small.

Albert Fish

SD Model in Violence

The capability may live in all of us no matter how hard we try to hide it and deny it. Carl Jung asked us to face our shadows and a common theme in psychology is facing our demons. This doesn’t mean if you had a murderous thought you should go out and try just ‘to see if it’s for you.’ On the contrary, facing the demon means realizing it does exist and confronting it. Now I do not recall at any time in my life having a carnal, incestuous or rapist thought beyond studying it in school. I will admit however to wishing a few people dead. Now admittedly the laws are not the only thing keeping me from manifesting the actual behavior, rather it is morals. I won’t perform such acts because they are wrong.

Long story short, in my opinion anyone alive, made brutally honest by chemical force would probably admit to a lot more terrible thoughts than they had hoped or even thought themselves capable of.

Now with that said…I am NOT picking on anyone here…this is merely a generalist opinion based on personal experiences, interviews and education so please don’t give me the generalization argument. I already admitted to not knowing if this is 100% true. Also I don’t need to hear I am attacking anyone as I have not.

I admit OP that I don’t have a respect for murderers or child molesters. I do however hold an interest in them because of my studies and I believe they should be studied in hopes that we can figure out what the fault was that led them to deviant, illegal or horrific behaviors.

While I may not agree in whole with your thread, I do not condemn it and refuse to attack you for bringing up thoughts that make some cringe. Maybe it’s just that I am desensitized…dunno

Hope this adds to your discussion

-Kyo

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Indeed. It is terribly simple to see the evidence IMO.

What happens when a female teacher sleeps with a male student? How does the public react? She is inspected for emotional damage. She is cared for and given smaller jail terms.

Now...watch the reaction when a male teacher sleeps with a female student. Notice a difference? The lynch mob comes out.

In my opinion I think the genders are alot more similar than most think. We all have our damages and we all have our good points. I just think judging a person by their 'gender superiority' is a fatal mistake.

-Kyo

I agree with you 100%. We the intellectual animal known as man have been disclosed from how reality really should be. We should not be too dependent in others to come and defend us in times of need. We should all go to self defense classes and learn our true nature. I am fully against the death penalty, and i am against the taking of anyone's life. Honestly if i did have to choose though, i believe those with the greater wealth cause the most deaths around the world compared to a broke individual who murdered 6 people execution style and made it to the headlines. Money travels along a giant river of blood. That being said...

I have thought numerous times, even as a child, on how to kill another individual. We are all capable of committing murder. We are all capable of defending our territories by slaughtering another individual off the face of existence. There are many people being beheaded in other countries do to our wars and their own. Violence is the most natural thing we have... without it, nothing that DOES NOT MAKE COMMON SENSE cannot be implemented. We use violence as the horses guiding our chariot of tyranny throughout our existence on earth. I strongly oppose violence amongst the public or foreign countries through government lies and mind control. Violence is something very controversial... we allow officers to use violence against its own tax payers, though defending yourselves against a power tripping law enforcer is out of the question. There we jump into REAL slavery, when we begin to question our rights, not only as citizens of which ever country we might be occupying at the time, but as human beings of Mother Earth.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by drkid]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by drkid]

Without reading the complete post I beg to differ.

Rape - nope never thought about it - sex is only interesting when there's two interested and active parties

Murder - not so - it hurts in my bones just thinking about hurting another being let alone a human one.

Weird thoughs yes I subscribe to that but none thus far of the murdering raping kind. But interesting to hear that thinking these things is a normal occurence....in your opinion. Where does that leave those of us that don't?

Ok so now i read the whole thing and still disagree....I don't like playing shoot to kill games I'm more of a puzzles person...and as for punishing rapists and child molesters...well death is in my OP not the way I'd do it. My punishment would be for them to stay in jail for the duration. I hope along the way they'd have regrets and if not I'm hoping that when their time comes there is another side and they then get what they deserve as far as remorse....

Bad thoughts for me is thinking about throwing things, yelling foul things at or maybe pushing a person that's made me mad. And as for defending my own....I'd rather get away from the threat...failing that I guess I am quite capable of defending myself but how far would I go? I don't know ....further than I would like to is my guess. Survival is a funny beast.





[edit on 29/4/2010 by IAmD1]

Yes I do understand.

I do think of killing people.

The punishment for this crime is hardly helping me with the choice not to.

I couldn't live with myself.
Empathy and regret would devour me.

Hi all,

Kyozero, as you’re a studier of psychology I am surprised you did not mention the simplicity of the rapist as to the fact that it has nothing to do with sex, it has every thing to do with control over another, if you ask a rapist they will tell you it was the worse sex they have ever had. I am not speaking about pedophiles this is in fact a different kind of psychosis. I have worked with victims of violent crimes before and no I do not have any degree in psychology. It just kind of happens when you work with teens so my experience is in the field not in the classroom. As a child of law enforcement officer and doing 2 years on the force gives you a lot of exposure to the truth of the demons that live with in each and everyone of us.

The female teacher on male student is played down because almost every male adolescence at one time or another as they reach puberty fantasizes about one of there teachers so is this wrong because the law says it is? Or is it natural attraction? I have always been with older women at 14 my girlfriend was 28 with children I per sued her and no she was not a teacher but I was attracted to a few of my teachers. My maturity level was much higher than anyone around me so all my friends and girl friends were much older than me, at 14 I was dancing and drinking in clubs and began working as a bouncer at 16 off the books for the club. But that’s because not only did I look the age I had the maturity behind me as well. I look no different at 45 except a few extra pounds as I did back then. A males first sexual attraction is to his mother a females first attraction is to her father but as a society we hold men more accountable then a female and this is to why the difference of reporting and playing down of the crime when a female is involved.

As I posted earlier age for consent varies from error to error the further back in time you go the younger the consent, women are suppose to mature faster than man. The reason most states have lowered the age of consent is because the girls did consent the parents are the ones pressing charges, as like I said I was in clubs at an early age, so are these women and do you ask ID of everyone you ever picked up in a club and slept with. And the odds are if it says there 21 they are more likely to be a teen and the ID is false. This is why I never went with younger women if they didn’t look and have maturity of a 25 or older personality with a job I walked away. Woman are evil and deceptive many teens are in clubs picking up older men to sleep with because they mature faster and cant stand hanging around boys there own age. I challenge anyone to go out and find a table in a club and just watch the crowd you could pick them out and see how they throw themselves entrapping a man and if caught what happens the guy gets picked up for rape. There are at least two different categories of rape one is the violent sex is no good hard core control rapist, then there is the simple age defined by law rape and this is the kind of rape that the law should be taken on a case to case bases. Why should anyone be charged with rape because the girl throw herself at you and you had a couple of beers and had great sex, but some how her parents find out and instead of the slut being charged the guy gets screwed. There are more under age hookers on the streets then women in there twenties, why is that? I have no idea and have interview a few prostitutes to try and find the answer and might write a book on it. But that is far off. No I have never been with a hooker only researched the topic and no I have never picked up a under age girl at a club I stay true to the women I was with I dated my first girl friend for four years when I went into the military at 18 then found another when I got out, been happily married for 13 years now and plan too grow old together.

Dark ghost I love your reference about the lord of the flies, and the comments that follow my point exactly. We are molded by our surroundings period every country ever state every town is different in there mind set and to what they seam to think as normal. Ask pedophiles they believe sickly of course that they are doing nothing wrong and it is all about love in there mind. Ask a murder they believe they did nothing wrong, they did it to cleanse society or some other reason except the wako that kills just to kill, and as and army person I am a murderer in war but because some government official says its ok does this change the fact that I took a life. No it does not and in taking that life because I had permission and was kill or be killed they pin a metal on you. Or in self defense a robber brakes in and you shoot them and kill them they pat you on the back and say good job you took a looser off the streets.

So you see how and why I titled it (all are would be murders and rapist) weather you had the females permission or not you’re a rapist, weather you had the government support or protect yourself and killed you are a murderer period. For now I look forward to your responses.

Thank you all.

Originally posted by drmeola
Hi all,

Kyozero, as you’re a studier of psychology I am surprised you did not mention the simplicity of the rapist as to the fact that it has nothing to do with sex, it has every thing to do with control over another, if you ask a rapist they will tell you it was the worse sex they have ever had.

Well I think we already pretty much agree on the simplicity of control and what rape is actually about. Yes control is typically the major factor. I was going on more about what you were saying about how people think of it more often. I can go more into it but I will say that I think some people aren't so honest about their inner demons. That's fine too it isn't my business what is in their mind

Obviously the thing that makes some different from the violator is the action. I find it terribly to condemn a person for a thought. Now if that thought is accompanied by plans..well of course that is different

Plus if I am not mistaken I mostly covered murder

-Kyo

[edit on 29-4-2010 by KyoZero]

I believe you did I was on a roll, and to get back to the original idea of thought, we are flooded day in and day out with images of violence be it from cartoons to the nightly news or even the sci fi horror category so many are drawn too. As we watch any show, do we not embrace the character be it the super hero or the villain of the story, and submerge our mind into the story. And at that moment do we not ether become the victim or villain. As a child I would imagine being batman or superman and have there powers fighting the good fight and things like that. As and adult I at times change sometimes I become the freddy cruger or mike myers of the story and sometimes I imagine what I would do as the victim to defend myself against the villain. And this scenario can be used for any kind of film or book, sometimes I become the one being tortured on a rack and sometime I become the torturer pulling on the wheel to stretch out the victim. Does any of this make me a bad person no as long as I never cross the line and act out the part of either? It is after all fantasy, but in the mind there is that fine line in fantasy, and anyone who says they always sympathize with the victim are lying to themselves. Again it comes down to a form of control, to have that power over anything or anyone, just like have the power over your pet, sit stay fetch it is all a form of power and control over something. Or someone. Even as the super hero are you not empowered over evil, again control over someone or something betting up the bad guy and rescuing the victim that is empowerment, and the reason most join law enforcement to have that power over someone else. The power to rescue a victim or just to flex your muscle of the uniform and the thrill of writing out the ticket patting yourself on the back for a job well done.

If you understand psychology and human beings in general ...you will see that everyone has the potential to be a sinner and a saint.

We all have the potential to be killers, have felt that instinct come out ....in traffic, being cut off be someone, the murderous impulse.

Most of the time it is qwelled tho. Logic and reson kick and say ...."Hey, if you do this ...its gonna be jail time ...or "get back to your senses", etc.

reply to post by dominicus


But some people prefer to repress the fact that they are indeed humans

IMO

-Kyo

Is this for real? We are "not" all want to be murders and rapist.

Ablue07, you have to read to whole thread in order to follow the discussion, we are talking about thought a passing or lingering thought and the fine line we walk between good and evil. And how depending on circumstances how a quick knee jerk reaction could lead to violence. We see this all the time in a riot a small group could easily influence what rather would have been a peaceful demonstration, we are products of our environment that changes with every breath we take.

Originally posted by KyoZero
reply to post by dominicus

 

But some people prefer to repress the fact that they are indeed humans

IMO

-Kyo

And some people deny that there may be diversity and that not ALL people are the same...and it may just be a bad excuse to do things otherwise seen as wrong. But what do I know I'm not a want to be murder killer and do not think like one which aparently makes me non-human according to the people in this thread.

Just MO.