Free Health Care is Awesome!!!

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posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by WTFover

Originally posted by baphomet420
...I was jumped by a gang of asians and stabbed several times (twice in the kidney, once in the stomach, twice in a lung, and several times in the head...


Just curious. Did you report the crime to the authorities?


...We had to pay approx $3,000 it was DECENT insurance...


If you made a criminal complaint, most states have some form of a "Crime Victims Compensation" program. It should reimburse most, if not all, of your out of pocket medical expenses. Check with your District Attorney's office.


I had to file bankruptcy to keep from being imprisoned once the medical facility filed charges against me for not being able to pay...


You can't be "imprisoned" for being unable to pay a bill. The medical facility can obtain a judgement, through civil proceedings, but not file criminal charges. If the collection agency rep told you that, they lied and you should report them to the state's Attorney General's office.


I still pay for medical insurance just incase SHTF...
When I get sick, I cannot go see a doctor..I cannot afford it..
I get no pain medication, no procedure to fix the problem, I just have to live with it...


Again. "Crime Victims Compensation". Check in to it.



The crime was reported of coarse, I was surrounded by detectives while being prepared for surgery in the ER...

I did not cooperate with the detectives after I was out of surgery for various reasons (i did fully before, they were just mad because I didn't know any names)
These reasons being
1. They told my mother (when they thought I was pretty much done for) that I was a known crack addict in a crack house)... MY TOXICOLOGY TEST CAME BACK CLEAN of coarse considering I have never done drugs (with the exception of weed that I started after the fact to help with the day to day pain, not before the incident so that was not even in my system)...
2. When questioning me, I was treated like a criminal (i was questioned less than 30 minutes after I woke after surgery... I was accused of being inside a house and riding in a car with these people that they said they found covered in blood which was not true.. They went as far as saying THEY FOUND THE BLOODY KNIFE IN A BLOOD SPLATTERED INTERIOR CAR, and kept rewording questions to get me to admit that I was in their car.. I WAS NEVER IN ANYBODIES CAR... When I said "so, you have the guys who did it then, I can identify pictures, they said that they had no evidence to hold them, therfore let them go (another obvious lie)..
3. All of my friends that came to visit me, I was told that they said that I was always getting into fights, and starting problems, (I AM PRACTICALLY A PACIFIST), I knew these were lies also...

I ended up having to yell at them to get them out of my room...
It was obvious to me< that they were trying to get me to incriminate myself to keep from having to deal with known gang members...

AND YES, IN 2004 YOU COULD FILE BANKRUPTCY ON $5,000....
I also included a credit card, (which had a very achievable balance ($1200), because you were required to file against all debtors)... They do not let you pick and choose...

I could pay $50 a month true, but when you do that, they just sell it to a collections agency, which will charge interest (like in my case) which the interest was far more than $50 a month, so rather pointless to bother paying...

And yes there was victims compensation for the original $3,000... I still had to pay quite a bit of it, but it did help, however, I'm talking about 3 years later, when I was having kidney problems (there is a statue of limitations on victim relief which was expired)...

And yes, it was a city with crooked law enforcement, the DA was eventually found guilty of murder due to his gang ties (of a 12 yo kid at that)... I no longer live there, but would like to think that the situation has gotten better.....




posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by baphomet420
 


Thats insane, sorry to hear about that. Nothing like having the "authority figures" we were told to respect not believing and making up lies.
One of my co-workers daughter was in Pittsburgh and had some sort of emergency, stroke or something in her brain, she had to be air lifted to Philly (it may be vice versa). She was charged over $300,000 for all her medical expenses. Canada helped them cover over $150,000 but he had to mortgage his house and take on all this extra debt just to pay for his daughter to have survived.
Stories like that make you scratch your head. Just as yours did



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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Has anyone actually tallied the cost to the taxpayers for the war in Iraq? How much health care would that pay for? It's probably better to spend the money on no bid Haliburton contracts and bombs than on the people of America.

Somebody mentioned no taxation without representation. Did you get to vote on the war in Iraq? Go/No Go? Nope. You're paying for it with your taxes. Your representation went out of the _
Hope you all find the WMDs soon.

BTW: There was a poster who spouted about how the USA had freedom and wasn't ruled by a queen etc.
There's actually something called "Constitutional Monarchy". They do it it in other countries. There are books about other countries that are full of facts and interesting stuff. There are other countries. They have different ways of doing things. Not better. Not worse. Just different. You might want to learn about them independently from Sean Hannity's perspective. Some/most of them have freedom too. "Socialism" is not a lack of freedom. You are, however, free to feed the insurance companies with your hard earned money. You'd also be surprised at what kind of vacation time they get in other countries (it's not a 'work ethic' issue, it's a "spending time actually living rather than working" issue). You'd also be surprised at how much longer their life expectancy is compared to yours.

You have a big foam finger that says, "We're No. 1" on it, don't you. Admit it.
Deny ignorance. Unless you really know the reasons for being "No.1" (which includes knowledge of the world - hint: Fox News doesn't show anything about other countries...)

Helping others isn't a crime. It's not communism. It's not morally dubious. It's not just what "bleeding heart liberals" do.
How about this one for some thought: (please don't start spouting about illegal immigrants. It's just ignorant, and the US isn't the only country that has them!) Let's give "free" medical care to all children under 18. Why not?

Spouting about "why should I pay for people who can't keep their legs crossed and have 19 kids..?." is also very ignorant.

There was a poster that mentioned a PPO plan where the deductible was $7500 a year. Think about it... You pay your premium so the insurance company will pay when you need medical care. You have to pay the premium, and then you have to pay $7500 before the insurance company will pay for anything. Doesn't this strike you as odd? You're paying the insurance company for the privilege of paying yourself for anything short of a major operation. That's not health insurance, that's "only if I'm really, really sick" insurance.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Badgered1
 


It bothers me how you could put something in such great perspective but have it still go as if it were completely wrong. Very good post my friend, you stated some very good points but I fear that some good ol boys will come tear it to shreds very shortly



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by Badgered1
 


I as well enjoyed that post, i put the emphasis on different does not constitute bad.
Change is something that is never warmly received by any populous by the dis-information that revolves around this issue is the main problem.
I see the commercials in the US comparing and attacking Canadas healhcare system, but there hasd to be some sort of legislation passed where you cant blatanly lie in commercials.
No-one is trying to say the system we have is perfect, im sure its not, but no-one in Canada is having to make massive decisions about loves ones lives based on a finacial means.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by stereovoyaged
 


Agreed. I'm not knocking the US patriots, just those who would mindlessly follow their assumptions without the benefit of facts and perspective.

I live in the US by choice, rather than birth (yes, I'm legally here). I love it here. I don't love the stranglehold that the insurance companies have on...well....everything.

Big change is needed. The problem I see is that change will come gradually only because of political posturing and positioning rather than for the benefit of the people.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by Badgered1
reply to post by stereovoyaged
 


Agreed. I'm not knocking the US patriots, just those who would mindlessly follow their assumptions without the benefit of facts and perspective.



Agreed, they fall asleep every night to the rythem of the war drum.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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My wife's company just dropped their HMO, we can't afford the PPO which would be 50% higher so we're going with the HMO my work offers. It'll be $290 every two weeks for the family, the reason it's so "low" is because my employer pays for my portion of the insurance.

I had to change doctors cause the one I've had for the last 2 decades isn't covered, there are deductables, etc. Sadly that figure is about 20% of my paycheck, tell me why having free healthcare is a bad thing again?



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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www.opensecrets.org...

Way over $300M in contributions. That is some big 'back scratching'. Will the politicians just ignore them? No chance.



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Terra Serranum
My wife's company just dropped their HMO, we can't afford the PPO which would be 50% higher so we're going with the HMO my work offers. It'll be $290 every two weeks for the family, the reason it's so "low" is because my employer pays for my portion of the insurance.

I had to change doctors cause the one I've had for the last 2 decades isn't covered, there are deductables, etc. Sadly that figure is about 20% of my paycheck, tell me why having free healthcare is a bad thing again?


Does she by chance work for GE



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by Terra Serranum
My wife's company just dropped their HMO, we can't afford the PPO which would be 50% higher so we're going with the HMO my work offers. It'll be $290 every two weeks for the family, the reason it's so "low" is because my employer pays for my portion of the insurance.

I had to change doctors cause the one I've had for the last 2 decades isn't covered, there are deductables, etc. Sadly that figure is about 20% of my paycheck, tell me why having free healthcare is a bad thing again?


Again, its not free! Geez, if we had Canada's system you would have at least 25% less in your paycheck at least from the higher taxes needed to pay for that system and the various others needed to support it.

You guys imagine that you'll have the same amount of money in your pocket, if not more, and then get free health care. Thats not how it works. First your taxes would sky rocket, and then the quality of your care goes down. Its not free people, open you eyes



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by Terra Serranum
My wife's company just dropped their HMO, we can't afford the PPO which would be 50% higher so we're going with the HMO my work offers. It'll be $290 every two weeks for the family, the reason it's so "low" is because my employer pays for my portion of the insurance.

I had to change doctors cause the one I've had for the last 2 decades isn't covered, there are deductables, etc. Sadly that figure is about 20% of my paycheck, tell me why having free healthcare is a bad thing again?


Again, its not free! Geez, if we had Canada's system you would have at least 25% less in your paycheck at least from the higher taxes needed to pay for that system and the various others needed to support it.

You guys imagine that you'll have the same amount of money in your pocket, if not more, and then get free health care. Thats not how it works. First your taxes would sky rocket, and then the quality of your care goes down. Its not free people, open you eyes


I'm curious, what do you pay, per pay period for your taxes?? I dont mind sharing at all, this last check i grossed 988.86, was taxed 170.75 on that. I make a little over 25k per year and I pay about 4300 in taxes and will get a return on my tax return and not have to pay in

How does my crazy outragous overpriced canadian taxes stack up against the u.s

[edit on 11-12-2009 by stereovoyaged]



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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Free health care is awesome....yes we pay higher taxes, but my new lungs will be in the mail within a week. HA!



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by stereovoyaged

I'm curious, what do you pay, per pay period for your taxes?? I dont mind sharing at all, this last check i grossed 988.86, was taxed 170.75 on that. I make a little over 25k per year and I pay about 4300 in taxes and will get a return on my tax return and not have to pay in

How does my crazy outragous overpriced canadian taxes stack up against the u.s

[edit on 11-12-2009 by stereovoyaged]


Thats not all of your taxation buddy, and thats what people don't understand. There is a layering of taxes. First to employers payroll who then can pay the employees less. Then to your pay check. Then taxes to companies that sell you your goods. Then sales tax. All of which are higher from systems like this.

Oh and to let you know in the US, someone with your income would pay $0 in income tax.

[edit on 11-12-2009 by johnny2127]



posted on Dec, 11 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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Free Health Care is Awful!!!

I have seen a number of threads/tv shows/magazine articles etc recentlyl because of the u.s health care bill saying that free health care is a horrible idea. A lot of these articles paint a picture of Canadian health care as an epic failure. Well, i've lived in Canada for 14 years and I am a very fortunate to still be alive as a result of this nightmare system.

Health care is not free, instead it simply results in stealing money from one person's wallet to give to another. As a Christain and a moral person, I know that it is utterly immoral to thieve from other people.

For some time, my girlfriend has been paying into this expensive medical insurance scheme at work that was supposed to insure both of us. As I have no option but to refuse the creepy health card as it is wrong to steal from others, we believed that this would give me coverage. However, because the health care systems exists, the insurance company refused to allow ANY claim point blank unless I scrounged off the public system every nickel that I could, something that is utterly immoral. As a result, despite having paid thousands and thousands into this medical insurance system, we say not a penny back, thanks to this wretch, filthy #ty health care system. And we were hosed for a thousand bucks, way over the market rate, buy the monopoly suupplier, the state.

Furthermore, knowing that I was not claiming public health care seems to have annoyed some of the doctors and when my cast finally came off, my left arm is extremely badly set - a real bodge job. The two bones on the lower arm are welded together, leaving me with an arm that goes intermittently numb, a meagre 30 degrees at best in rotation of my wrist and the ability to pick up nothing heavier than a half filled coffee cup.

I have tried to find another private clinic, but none of them want to to do ordinary coverage. They only want big flashy heart transplant cases not workaday health care like mending bones as the existence of this wicked and evil health scam that bleeds the taxpayer white exists like a cancer in the nation.

Additionally, It is well known in the Gartineau region that the Hull Hospital is an absolute killing ground. My girlfriend was obnce coughing up blodd and was very sick. As she was English speaking, eshe was just ignored for 11 hours, left in the waiting room while others who came in were seen in minutes. Since they have a guaranteed income, the nurses and doctors can be as prejudice and racist as they like and take almost pride when English-speakers die in the waiting room.

AMERICA, YOU MUST BE F**KING NUTS TO VOTE FOR THIS!



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by aristocrat2

Health care is not free, instead it simply results in stealing money from one person's wallet to give to another. As a Christain and a moral person, I know that it is utterly immoral to thieve from other people.



I find your phrasing rather odd when you say it is wrong to "thieve" from other people. The correct term would be steal but here in the UK "to thieve" is a common phrase in some areas. Are you really from Canada? I ask only because this seems an odd occurance in language, where it is used in similar terms.

However let me address your point. You say you find it wrong to steal as you are a Christian. Firstly people pay taxes, this is not theft as they choose to do it. Secondly why is it that as a Christian you find it abhorrent to thieve as you put it but perfectly acceptable to let people die because they can't afford healthcare.

That is a very strange view of the world you have.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 03:56 AM
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America makes too much money on its people being sick, it sucks how easy it is to persuade people that free health care is a bad thing, i swear it feels like people only want others to formulate their opinion and not actually looking at why they should feel that way.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 07:23 AM
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We should consolidate the opinions taht are posted in this thread.

1. Those who believe that everyone deserves to be healthy and should have healthcare when they are unwell.

2. Those who believe that if you do not earn enough money then you should spend your life being unwell, developing horrible complications and should end up dying.

In a caring society i would think people would value the health and lives of others but i guess the USA isn't a caring society. Actually i would say that the USa is lagging behind the rest of the world because you have never really endured the problems that the rest of the world has. You are a young nation and so have no consideration of what other nations have been through. The UK developed the NHS after world war 2 but i think that the idea of people being treated equally comes from victorian times when education was important.

You see we had this class system where the rich were educated and the poor were left to make money as they could and suffered the best healthcare they could find. The poor wanted better education and so eventually we developed socialised education. This in time expanded to healthcare because we realised everyone should have it.

So again i state the USA is a nation that is simply unevolved and in time you will undergo a change that takes you to a more caring society.



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
We should consolidate the opinions that are posted in this thread.

1. Those who believe that everyone deserves to be healthy and should have healthcare when they are unwell.

2. Those who believe that if you do not earn enough money then you should spend your life being unwell, developing horrible complications and should end up dying.


3. I will assume the second (of only two???) categories includes those who believe the current, proposed U.S. health care reform bills are only going to make the situation worse. However, know there are correctable problems (and want to correct them), while avoiding the expansion of entitlement programs, by supporting those who won't help themselves, not those who can't help themselves. And, know that it is not free.

and

4. Those who want to repair the U.S. health care system and health insurance industry, without a massive expansion of government bureaucracies and funded by the current fraud and waste of our government, not by more pilfering of the taxpayers. And know that it is not free.

I am infuriated, every time a liberal tries and fails to make everything so black and white. You want to ignore the obvious and create two categories that allow you to feel superior to others, by creating a target for you to demonize, when a real target does not exist.

The misleading title of the thread is "Free Health Care is Awesome". No matter how you want to spin it, health care is not free and never will be.


[edit on 12-12-2009 by WTFover]

[edit on 12-12-2009 by WTFover]



posted on Dec, 13 2009 @ 04:36 AM
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Originally posted by WTFover
3. I will assume the second (of only two???) categories includes those who believe the current, proposed U.S. health care reform bills are only going to make the situation worse. However, know there are correctable problems (and want to correct them), while avoiding the expansion of entitlement programs, by supporting those who won't help themselves, not those who can't help themselves. And, know that it is not free.



So you fall into the first category because you want people to have healthcare, just in a different way. You may not like liberals making it black and white (btw i'm not a liberal) but the issue is just that. The USA lags behind many first world nations in how it treats people in regards to it's healthcare policy.


Originally posted by WTFover
4. Those who want to repair the U.S. health care system and health insurance industry, without a massive expansion of government bureaucracies and funded by the current fraud and waste of our government, not by more pilfering of the taxpayers. And know that it is not free.


No system is free what the OP meant i think is that you don't have to worry about the bill. If someone for example has paid 40,000 in taxes into the system but requires 100,000 worth of treatment then they don't have to worry about paying that enormous bill, they just get treated and hopefully recover. National insurance works as a collective, those who are healthy pay for those that are sick because they understand that healthcare should be a right and they don't want others to suffer.

As for wastage well all systems have it. Consider for the moment what healthcare insurers do. They act like a third party tax system because you really do need healthcare and so most people would prefer to have insurance. So you take your earnings and pay the inurance company, who then take money for their profits and spend a fortune trying not to pay out the money you gave them. If you want to talk about waste then the insurance companies are far more wasteful compared to the government run version.

In the government run version you pay tax, it goes directly into a national insurance program and is paid out without questino to anyone that needs it. There is no middle man and while waste will happen it will end up being a better system. Again i point out that countries with socialised healthcare tend to have higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality, higher cancer survival rates and well i'm just going over old ground again and again i with that point.


Originally posted by WTFover
I am infuriated, every time a liberal tries and fails to make everything so black and white. You want to ignore the obvious and create two categories that allow you to feel superior to others, by creating a target for you to demonize, when a real target does not exist.


I am not a liberal, i am a middle of the road voter with some highly conservative policies and some highly lberal policies. It is intereesting you chose to attack the poster along with the post though.


Originally posted by WTFover
The misleading title of the thread is "Free Health Care is Awesome". No matter how you want to spin it, health care is not free and never will be.



Firstly i am sure as i have already described the OP did not mean it was free and didn't cost anyone anything he/she simply meant you don't worry about a bill at the end of the treatment as it has come out of national insurance. I find people picking on this point to be rather silly because it's obvious and everyone knows it. It is done i think to try and discredit the entire system by making it seem as if proponents of it believe it to be free and so giving you a target to ridicule.

Wait didn't you just have a go at liberals for making targets to demonise? Yet you're doing the same thing





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