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Free Health Care is Awesome!!!

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posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by stereovoyaged
Two of the main things that suprised me the most about the responses i've seen in this thread are:

1. The amount of people who feel that not everyone is entitled to the same quality of health care as everyone else. Like those who are homeless or poor, or those who do not contribute are not worthy to recieve care as those who do.

2. The Americans who say they do not trust their govt with health care. How can you live in a country if you are so sure the govt is incapable of supporting you. You trust them with everything else but not health care?? If you are so unsure of your govt's abillity why do you live there?


You should read what i wrote to you, i responded to all that simple logic. Lastly, who said we trusted the government with everything else? You aren't a very informed Canadian about American politics. Maybe you should stick to your issues?




posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Mattehinthebox

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
Two of the main things that suprised me the most about the responses i've seen in this thread are:

1. The amount of people who feel that not everyone is entitled to the same quality of health care as everyone else. Like those who are homeless or poor, or those who do not contribute are not worthy to recieve care as those who do.

2. The Americans who say they do not trust their govt with health care. How can you live in a country if you are so sure the govt is incapable of supporting you. You trust them with everything else but not health care?? If you are so unsure of your govt's abillity why do you live there?


You should read what i wrote to you, i responded to all that simple logic. Lastly, who said we trusted the government with everything else? You aren't a very informed Canadian about American politics. Maybe you should stick to your issues?


This was not directed at any one post, rather the thread overall. My question still stands, if you don't trust them with anything how can you in good concious live there?

God, Americans are so touchy about....being Americans. Its like I said, you think you have the best system becase its your system. Its like a parent thinking their kid is the best because its their kid.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by stereovoyaged]

[edit on 10-12-2009 by stereovoyaged]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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It's not that easy to just leave. That's a pretty blind thing to say. If you thought your country was awful but loved it, would you fight for it or leave?

I think many of us are prepared to leave if necessary, but I believe we were born in a revolution, and it will take one to fix our issues. We fell asleep at the wheel once we won our independence, and allowed banks and corporations to take over.

Or issue isn't free health care, our issue is the ability to pay for our commodities. Once we ditch an inflationary fiat monetary money, and go back to the original foundations of sound money and free market capitalism then we'll be able to afford the commodities Everyone deserves.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Mattehinthebox
It's not that easy to just leave. That's a pretty blind thing to say. If you thought your country was awful but loved it, would you fight for it or leave?

I think many of us are prepared to leave if necessary, but I believe we were born in a revolution, and it will take one to fix our issues. We fell asleep at the wheel once we won our independence, and allowed banks and corporations to take over.

Or issue isn't free health care, our issue is the ability to pay for our commodities. Once we ditch an inflationary fiat monetary money, and go back to the original foundations of sound money and free market capitalism then we'll be able to afford the commodities Everyone deserves.


Well I hope there is a revolution in your country for you and the whole worlds sake. Having the curroption and green that embodies the u.s ended will benefit the whole planet. And I know its not just your country at fault. But do you honestly think the revolution will ever start?



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by jsmappy
That is why you are a Canadian. You love what others provide you. Here in America we actually take pride in that we get what we work for.


I pay taxes...I provide for myself and my fellow Canadians. That's how we do it.


By the way, nice military.

Too bad we can't do as good a job as yours...how's that Iraq thing going, anyway?

I'm really not going to dignify your paranoid rant by taking it on bit-by-bit, except to say that this thread is showing us a lot of dissatisfaction with current and proposed US healthcare...and a generally happy bunch of Canadians (and Brits, and so on and so on). Our personal freedoms are doing pretty well, thanks, and so is our standard of living. All that and Universal Health Care. The OP is right....Awesome!

Well, except for that 6 months of winter and 3 months of bad skiing.

Still, it's the Great White North.




posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Well, except for that 6 months of winter and 3 months of bad skiing.

Still, it's the Great White North.


Now Johnny, stop feeding the stereotype that its mega cold up here. Its gonna rain today here in good ol' fog city. We have winter in jan/feb here bit of snow here and there in between but nothing major
And well sking here is meh i guess haha



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by devilishlyangelic23
reply to post by johnny2127
 


congratulations on finding 11 canadians that hate the health care system. i personally have spoken to hundreds if not thousands of canadians in my different work places, schooling, social circles etc. and not once have i EVER encountered a canadian that doesnt like our health care. not once. so you found 11 people, thats fantastic for you because those people are the minority in this country. and i dont base that on any sort of statistic, i base that on my own personal experiences with talking to people. and you may ask, "do you really talk to everyone you know about your health care system?" and i would answer, absolutely. i talk to anyone and everyone i can about it to collect my own personal data and come to my own personal conclusions outside of whatever the governments and media tell me. and, like i stated. i have yet to find someone who does not like our health care.

and i dont understand why people seem to think that receiving our health care its stealing? did i read that correctly or am i misunderstanding something i read?...because its not stealing if im contributing to it in my taxes as well...


Who said anything about you stealing health care? My point was that it is not FREE as the OP so naively says.

And the 11 Canadians are all the Canadians I know well. Of some will like, and some will not. Seems like the things those of you Canadian that like point out is that you don't need to pay when you go in. I hear nothing about the quality of care, and we all know that is lacking given the thousands of stories of people needing to wait months for critical treatments, surgeries, and tests.

There is a reason that on Canadian holidays, the hospitals and clinics in US cities near the Canadian border are suddenly overwhelmed with Canadians coming south for immediate treatment.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by stereovoyaged

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
In theory it does seem like a good idea to me. I wouldnt mind paying a little more tax if it meant i could save 500 dollars a month. I guess people are just afraid of change.

MessOnTheFED!

[edit on 9-12-2009 by MessOnTheFED!]


Exaclty, honestly, I havn't spent 500 on health care in my life, so I cannot imagine per month.


If it's so good why are all your Canadian patients coming here to get heart by pass and organ transplants instead of waiting for a year to get it there in Canada?



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by stereovoyaged

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
In theory it does seem like a good idea to me. I wouldnt mind paying a little more tax if it meant i could save 500 dollars a month. I guess people are just afraid of change.

MessOnTheFED!

[edit on 9-12-2009 by MessOnTheFED!]


Exaclty, honestly, I havn't spent 500 on health care in my life, so I cannot imagine per month.


If it's so good why are all your Canadian patients coming here to get heart by pass and organ transplants instead of waiting for a year to get it there in Canada?



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by GrndLkNatv
 


Wow, you and Johnny just dont get it do you. Firstly critical operations arent put on waiting lists in Canada, and as far as your hospitals being jammed (i dont know why at holidays?) its pretty simple to explain. Much like America we toohave the wealthy and the elite *gasp* and yes sometimes they want to go to the US because lets face it you have a TON of doctors and facilities your bound to have some highly skilled surgeons that people are willing to pay for.
This isnt a debate over the quality for the rich, this si a debate over the most basic of qualities for everyone.
Also this point is never mentioned in these debates and i have no idea why, in Canada there is the beginning of a two tier system. Everyone is entitled to everything BUT if those who can afford and wish to pay more they can and receive faster/different treatment. Its not somehow bypassing our poor system, people look out for themselves, as the Americans have pointed out to us. That still doesnt mean everyone doesnt deserve health care.
Latsly i want to try and settle this its bad timing because of the recesiion, listen the connection your failing to make is that America is founded and ran by small businesses, these businesses cannot afford to give their employees healthcare its simply to expensive. You alleviate that cost for them and magically they can begin to hire more and more people, they can flood the markets with more competitive market lines and services and therefore everyone wins. Things become cheaper, and there are more jobs.
This is your time America, its no real secret your dollar is a joke, your economy *cough* china *cough* is leveraged through the roof that it cannot sustain itself, and your running on archaeic principles (see lates bailout for wallstreet) Now you finally have an issue in which the world is once again watching America. Only difference is throughout history we have watched you guys make a choice and than we follow, you used to be the compass for right and wrong. This time the whole world knows whats right, were just waiting to see if you get it. *cough* re-elected bush.
If there is a list please put me, my family, my friends, my co-workers, and that hooker i nailed last tuesday (im still clean thank-you free test) on the side of happy with their health care in Canada.
note, i have had 4 surgeries in Canada 3 MRI's and a slew of other tests im 24 and the longest i waited was 3 months for an MRI on my shoulder, nearly cost me my life (sarcasm font)

[edit on 10-12-2009 by Hack28]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Hack28
 


Buddy, I am not defending the US govt, the US Dollar, or anything else regarding that. I am saying your system is not free, is very expensive, provides marginal quality of care at best and is broken.

I am sure you know about this since you are Canadian, but your system is broke and set to implode. Even the President of the Canadian Medical Association (CMA) says your system is imploding, and the quality of care is quickly diminishing. Interestingly enough, much of the Canadian solution to your problems are a return to more private health care.

Source

The system as you have it is about 25 years old, and broken now. Don't you see that? It isn't sustainable. Its broken and bankrupt in Canada and in UK.

I recommend you read some articles and do some research about the fragile nature of your own system, for it won't be around in its current state much longer.

Good article: Article



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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I was dead set agaisnt a government healthcare system until I had a vision.

A state based healthcare, so that it's budget must be balanced. It would operate in the same fashion as our military's; if you get sick, you see your doc, services are rendered, receive med's and go home. The best part is there's no bill and everyone is covered, from newborn to senior.

There are four steps to institute this plan:

Step 1: Eliminate all income taxes.
This would allow someone earning $600/wk to bring home $600/wk instead of $400/wk (due to taxes and $130/wk in health insurance for a family of three-no tobacco/no alcohol/no drugs). This would provide almost $11K/yr for that family to live more comfortably and SPEND, raising the GDP of the state.

Step 2: Eliminate "Health Insurance Providers".
Allow the money to go to the doctors instead of stuffing the pockets of a middle man who tries to deny coverage to increase profits.
According to the afl-cio now blog by Mike Hall on May 27,2009, "Profits at 10 of the country’s largest publicly traded health insurance companies rose 428 percent from 2000 to 2007, while consumers paid more for less coverage. "

Step 3: Institute Doctor's salaries/service rates (see Mayo Clinic).
This will bring down costs and increase the quality of their service. It will eliminate the "production line" mentality and force doctor's to provide more "quality control" care to prevent revisits (see Green Bay, WI).

Step 4: Increase sales tax. As it is here in KY, the sales tax is 6%. This will upset a lot of people, but please finish reading. It would be increased to 18% (5%-Fed, 5%-St, 1%-City, 7%-Kentucky Healthcare.) As in the case of the the employee earning $600/wk, he/she now has an extra $200/wk to better provide for his/her family by SPENDING (raise the GDP) on the things he/she had to put off before.

Example: He/she goes to the store, out of the $200 he/she spends $100. After taxes it would be $118. Only $12 more than before the tax was raised. But now, he/she can see the doctor, get services rendered, get med's, and no bill. The taxes paid help to ensure he/she remains healthy so they can keep working and therefore stimulating the economy.
In the case of Kentucky, anyone with a valid Kentucky driver's license would have no bill. Those out of state would have to use their personal health insurance.

The Kentucky Health Care Program would include every Kentucky resident from newborn to senior (cradle to the grave).

The structure, operations, etc. of the KHCP would be addressed in a separate debate.

Compare the FY2005 (KY) numbers to mine using my excel spreadsheet data:

In FY2005 (KY) the State and Local General Revenues acquired $77.6 million ($6.8 million from Sales/Income tax). Under my plan, the state would have generated between $139 million-$1 billion all Sales Tax!

In FY2005 (KY) the State and Local General Expenditure spent just over $7 million. Under my plan, the state would have generated $54 million to just under $400 million.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness should not depend upon one's income. Without proper medical care, one has no liberty to pursue happiness in their shortened life.

My goal was to offer a simpler, budgeted, efficient, and all inclusive plan for health care and fortunately it also helps to increase the prosperity of the state's residents while increasing the potential for spending and raising the state's GDP.
Thank you for reading.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by arlisjohnson
 


Good plan, although many states do not have income tax. And some already run versions of health care plans that are all disasters.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by johnny2127
I hear nothing about the quality of care, and we all know that is lacking given the thousands of stories of people needing to wait months for critical treatments, surgeries, and tests.


1) The quality of care is excellent.
2) You don't have to wait for 'critical'...think triage.
3) Some folks like to cue-jump...others use American facilities in border areas and they are paid by the province.
4) When it's all said and done, you still own your house.

You notice a pattern from the Canadian posters here? Pretty happy with the status quo? I don't know what some of you American posters are on about...resentment that we have what you don't, or a partisan conflict that puts politics a above your fellow citizen's health. My old Scottish father-in-law used to call that "Pi$$ing in yer boot to keep yer foot warm".

The OP said it plain...those are not our collective values, so we simply can't understand.

But I'll tell you one thing...we ain't gonna swap!



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by johnny2127
I hear nothing about the quality of care, and we all know that is lacking given the thousands of stories of people needing to wait months for critical treatments, surgeries, and tests.


1) The quality of care is excellent.
2) You don't have to wait for 'critical'...think triage.
3) Some folks like to cue-jump...others use American facilities in border areas and they are paid by the province.
4) When it's all said and done, you still own your house.

You notice a pattern from the Canadian posters here? Pretty happy with the status quo? I don't know what some of you American posters are on about...resentment that we have what you don't, or a partisan conflict that puts politics a above your fellow citizen's health. My old Scottish father-in-law used to call that "Pi$$ing in yer boot to keep yer foot warm".

The OP said it plain...those are not our collective values, so we simply can't understand.

But I'll tell you one thing...we ain't gonna swap!


Interesting how you don't want to comment on your Canadian Medical Association President saying you system is broke, and providing poor quality of care.

Also interesting is that your example of good quality care is that people needing immediate care or they will die, get that care. That should be expected, not commended. But when lets say someone with a blown out knee has to wait 3 months for surgery, not good. Someone needing an MRI waiting 6 weeks, not good. Someone needing to see a specialist waiting 2 months, not good.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by johnny2127
I am sure you know about this since you are Canadian, but your system is broke and set to implode. Even the President of the Canadian Medical Association (CMA) says your system is imploding, and the quality of care is quickly diminishing. Interestingly enough, much of the Canadian solution to your problems are a return to more private health care.

Source



Read that article, it speaks of a different way of the government paying costs...not dumping the system. Also...she is president of a lobby group...to lobby groups, the sky is always falling. This has been addressee on other threads. Bottom line? Think what you want, listen to whatever corporate shills cherry pick your news, but you guys are getting screwed by the HMOs and don't have the common sense to notice.

My cancer went from initial questioning to biopsy to cure within 3 months...for an out-of-pocket cost of $32. You can huff and puff as much as you want...but beat that for a universal right!



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by johnny2127
I am sure you know about this since you are Canadian, but your system is broke and set to implode. Even the President of the Canadian Medical Association (CMA) says your system is imploding, and the quality of care is quickly diminishing. Interestingly enough, much of the Canadian solution to your problems are a return to more private health care.

Source



Read that article, it speaks of a different way of the government paying costs...not dumping the system. Also...she is president of a lobby group...to lobby groups, the sky is always falling. This has been addressee on other threads. Bottom line? Think what you want, listen to whatever corporate shills cherry pick your news, but you guys are getting screwed by the HMOs and don't have the common sense to notice.

My cancer went from initial questioning to biopsy to cure within 3 months...for an out-of-pocket cost of $32. You can huff and puff as much as you want...but beat that for a universal right!



Yes not dumping the system but changing it from the govt run system it is now. Going more private. Govt run health care programs do not work long term. That has been proven by your broken system and the UK's. The US needs revamping for sure, but not to look like Canada's.

And congrats on the cancer cure! I do think that falls into the 'needing immediate care' area of things. And while it was $32 out of pocket, you do of course realize that the total taxation you pay is among the highest in the western world for whatever you tax bracket is right? Of which between 8-10% go towards health care.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by johnny2127]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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I agree with the OP.

I actually think free healthcare is a Human Right and should be available to everyone... not only those that can afford it.
And i like the fact that my taxes make that happen for everyone.

I'm glad i live in a country where everyone has access to medicine and treatment when they need it... not if they can afford it.


I actually think it's barbaric and disgusting that people have to remain ill/injured or whatever because they don't have enough money... :shk:




[edit on 10/12/09 by blupblup]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by blupblup
I agree with the OP.

I actually think fee healthcare is a Human Right and should be available to everyone... not only those that can afford it.
And i like the fact that my taxes make that happen for everyone.

I'm glad i live in a country where everyone has access to medicine and treatment when they need it... not if they can afford it.


I actually think it's barbaric and disgusting that people have to remain ill/injured or whatever because they don't have enough money... :shk:


[edit on 10/12/09 by blupblup]


Again buddy, not free. Among the highest tax rates in the world, definitely not free.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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Reply to post by Mattehinthebox
 


What pie in the sky idealistic thinking is that? Free market or otherwise the human capacity for greed will raise it's ugly head. In a nutshell it wouldn't change human nature or anything for the better. In fact then there would be NOTHING to hold in check those that allow their greed rule them. It WAS NOT free market capitalism that allowed the rise of the middle class.


 
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