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When will the ACLU ever stop??

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posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 08:06 AM
Another war memorial is under attack by the ACLU and our tax dollars are partially funding it. The ACLU is hell bent on secularizing our nation.

The Mt. Soledad Veterans Memorial near San Diego features a 29-foot Latin cross that was erected in 1954 to honor U.S. veterans. The American Civil Liberties Union wants the cross taken down because it stands on public land; the case currently is awaiting a ruling in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Meanwhile, the Supreme Court is still deciding whether the Sunrise Rock War Memorial - known as the "Mojave Cross" - will remain standing in the Mojave Desert.

Yes, I know it is on public land but so are the crosses in Arlington National Cemetery. When will the ACLU stop with the needless lawsuits? Hey how about the cross on JFK's marker in Arlington?

"How can the United States be considered ‘one nation under God' if it removes all symbols of God from the public square?" Hill said. "The American Legion believes that these symbols are not only worth preserving, but the government of the United States should also do everything in its power to end these frivolous lawsuits. Not only should the courts rule against those who would remove the symbols of veterans memorials, but Congress should also pass the Veterans' Memorials, Boy Scouts, Public Seals, and Other Public Expressions of Religion Protection Act of 2009, preventing the ACLU and like-minded organizations from bilking the public treasury to pay for its misguided lawsuits against religious memorials."

War memorials, Christmas trees and Menorahs on public land, the Pledge of Allegiance, mentioning God in a commencement address in a public school.... All under the guise of separation of Church and State. In Pittsburgh they went so far as to demand that a municipal parking lot be off limits to those parking there to visit a local Christmas display at a nearby church.

Based on these types of litigious actions by the ACLU one would think that they would apply the Separation argument to all faiths. Not so.

Anyone remember when The University of Michigan decided to fund $25,000 worth of ritual foot-washers for Islamic students wishing to pray? Was the ACLU outraged? Keep in mind, this university is a public institution, receiving federal and state taxes and using that money for a religious device whose purpose is to facilitate prayer. Not only did the ACLU not object but it also supported the expenditure as “reasonable,” something it can never bring itself to say when activities are for Judeo-Christian expression or symbols.

The selective inconsistencies and overt hypocrisy of the ACLU comes as no surprise. The ACLU has manipulated church/state issues and used it selectively when it furthered its own anti-Christian agenda. The ACLU is led today by cultural marxists and is heavily funded by the likes of George Soros and any variety of his "non-profit" progressive organizations that are hell bent on stripping the Judeo/Christian base from our nation.

Enough with the public funding of this anti American organization already. The ACLU has morphed well beyond its original mission of assisting the under dog. They have swelled into a progressive political monster.

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 08:58 AM
Hmm.. interesting. First off, a well thought out and well written post.

I am usually not one to get into these sorts of discussions. They are very polarizing and while the ACLU is indeed way too diligent sometimes, not everything they do is bad. I would hate to lose the watchdog aspect of them, but yeah, they need to be toned down.

In this case, it is a matter of history. In the 50s the US culture was mainly white bread, christian, conservative. Things have changed, but that point of history remains the same. I would rather they leave the history alone.

The argument eventually comes down to an all or nothing sort of thing. Does the US government allow the Christian cross knowing that they must also put up a Star of David, crescent moon, pentacle, and other symbols of various religions when asked... or do they put up nothing at all. If they only put up a Christian cross on a site and then say no to anything else, is that not the endorsement of Christianity?

Once again, this could all be avoided if the government were simply there to protect the country from invaders and ensure we have the means to be safe and happy. Monuments should be built and managed by citizens, not governments..they mean much more that way.

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 09:08 AM
reply to post by jibeho

Yeah this is from Fox, but still worth a watch -

Happy Winter Solstice Everybody!

*love your avatar btw

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 09:35 AM
The ACLU is certainly a biased outfit that more often that not wastes its efforts on trivial nonsense.

However, they have been instrumental in protecting civil rights in many cases.

Keep in mind that all trial lawyers are democrats - all of them - so its to be expected that they will be biased and selective in their choice of cases. But consider this before knocking them, do they actively damage civil rights?

Does the ACLU, in their pursuit of cases, cause DAMAGE to civil rights?

I would argue that NO, they do not.

Even though I greatly disagree with their politics and choice of cases, having them around provides a benefit. The anti-church in state attacks by the ACLU are trivial in my opinion, they don't undermine religious rights in the grand scheme of things.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by mnemeth1]

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 10:09 AM
Them ACLU folks are qwazy trouble makers !!

They defend child molesters and evil doers!

Normal people don't like them messing around with justice.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by RUFFREADY]

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 10:40 AM

Originally posted by RUFFREADY
Them ACLU folks are qwazy trouble makers !!

They defend child molesters and evil doers!

Normal people don't like them messing around with justice.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by RUFFREADY]

Wrong on all counts!
the ACLU doesn't defend child molestors, they ONLY defend The First Amendment. Too bad the "normal" folks have zip understanding of our rights!

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:03 AM
reply to post by OldDragger

Now they do.


* First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, Freedom of Religion, and of assembly; right to petition,

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

* Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. [5][6]

* Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

* Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

* Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

* Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

* Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

* Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

* Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

* Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people


posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:28 AM
The ACLU has clearly veered far away from their original intent. They have become just another mouthpiece for the Progressive Movement. Yes, they have done some good but, with that good comes their politically charged agenda. Their hypocrisy is so blatant that they should not be eligible for any federal funding whatsoever. Much like ACORN, they have strayed far away from the original flock of their respective foundations.

A prime example is the construction of footbath stations for Muslim students at the University of Michigan in Dearborn. Not even a whimper of opposition from the ACLU on the issue. They were concerned but never opposed it. In another case in San Diego an extra recess period was granted at Carver Elementary school for Muslim students to pray. The same school also spent $450,000 to alter the cafeteria menu and to alter class schedules to include Arabic instruction and prayers.

Meanwhile, ACLU opposes nativity scenes, prayers at public school graduations and Christian clubs in high school. In my former public school, it was called the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. It no longer exists there.

The ACLU only supports groups that fit within their agenda while blatantly going to extremes to exclude other groups. Civil Liberties and First Amendment right protection?

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:34 AM
reply to post by jibeho

REALLY! Then why are all these ACLU cases DEFENDING CHRISTIANS rights to free speech? I'm at work and don't have time to post a link, Google it yourself!! Could it be you just don't know what you are talking about?

The ACLU fights just as hard for INDIVIDUAL free exercise of religion as the ACLU fights against GOVERNMENT endorsement, sponsorship, or establishment of religion. Despite this fact, many people spread misinformation about the ACLU around the internet, innocently and maliciously, falsely claiming the ACLU is anti-religion or anti-Christian.

This list of FACTS counteracts that misinformation. These links represent just a few of the many examples of the ACLU defending the free speech and free exercise rights of Christians (for purposes of this list, the word “Christian” means a person who self-identifies as “Christian”).

In every example, the ACLU is defending the right of a Christian to speak as a Christian or to practice Christianity.

Here is the current version of this EVER GROWING list:

ACLU Defends Christian Students Wearing Anti-Islam Shirts to Florida Public School

ACLU Fights For Christian Inmate's Right to Preach

ACLU of Northern California Fights Law that Got Quakers Fired Over Loyalty Oath

ACLU Defends Christian Librarian Disciplined for Refusing to Promote Harry Potter

ACLU Defends Right of Individual Christian to Display Nativity Scene on Public Property

ACLU Defends Christians Protesting Gay Rights in Florida

ACLU Champions Religious Freedom Of Mormon College Student

ACLU Fights for Christian Church's Mission to Feed the Poor

ACLU Fights for Christmas Tree

ACLU Files Suit to Protect Free Speech Rights of Christian Protesting Wal-Mart's Policy on Gays

ACLU of Georgia and Baptist Church File Religious Discrimination Lawsuit

ACLU of Rhode Island Files Appeal on Behalf of Christian Prisoner Barred from Preaching at Religious Services

ACLU of Michigan Defends Catholic Man Coerced to Convert to Pentecostal Faith in Drug Rehab Program

ACLU of New Jersey Joins Lawsuit Supporting Second-Grader's Right to Sing "Awesome God" at Talent Show

After ACLU Intervention on Behalf of Christian Valedictorian, Michigan High School Agrees to Stop Censoring Religious Yearbook Entries

ACLU Helps Free New Mexico Street Preacher From Prison

ACLU of WA Wins Right of Christian Minister to Preach in Spokane Plaza

ACLU Fights for Baptist Preacher in Illinois

ACLU Defends Rights of Christian Group to Make Religious Protest at Funerals

ACLU Backs Christian Abortion Protester in Ohio

ACLU of Oregon Defends Religious Liberty Of Adventist School Boys Basketball Players

ACLU Backs Missouri Nurse Penalized for Wearing Cross-Shaped Lapel Pin

ACLU Defends Christian Street Preacher in Las Vegas

ACLU Argues for Legal Recognition of Small Christian Church

ACLU of MA Defends Students Punished for Distributing Candy Canes with Religious Messages

ACLU of Nebraska Defends Church Facing Eviction by the City of Lincoln

ACLU Defends Church's Right to Run "Anti-Santa" Ads in Boston Subways

ACLU Defends Inmate's Access to Material from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Following Threat of ACLU of Virginia Lawsuit, Officials to Agree Not to Ban Baptisms in Public Parks

ACLU Defends Families Fighting Removal Of Religious Symbols from Florida Cemetery

ACLU Supports Right of Iowa Students to Distribute Christian Literature at School

ACLU Argument In Support of the Display of a Christian Cross in a Public Forum

ACLU Defends Christian Worker Required to Remove Bible from Desk at Government Job

ACLU Defends Free Speech Rights of Christians And Others On Main Street Plaza

ACLU Defends Prisoner's Rosary Beads

ACLU Defends Christian Group's Anti-Abortion Ads On Phoenix Buses

ACLU Pledges to Back Church in a Zoning Battle

ACLU of PA Files Discrimination Lawsuit Over Denial of Zoning Permit for African American Baptist Church

ACLU Offers To Represent Private Prayer on Public Property and

ACLU Joins Falwell To Fight For Church Incorporation Rights

This page is maintained by Allen Asch. You can find email contact info at that link if you would like to suggest additions to the list or to make other comments. This page was last updated on December 6, 2009


[edit on 9-12-2009 by OldDragger]

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:56 AM
reply to post by OldDragger

I never said that they don't defend Christians. They are just keeping up appearances to maintain federal funding. Furthermore, church and state issues only comprise one small facet of their realm.

Each spring as high-school graduation approaches, the organization distributes a letter to public schools warning them that no one is permitted pray or make public remarks referring to their faith at graduation ceremonies. Moreover, it calls on public schools to censure any speech that might be viewed as having a religious tone.

In the OP I stated that the selective inconsistencies and overt hypocrisy of the ACLU comes as no surprise. The ACLU has manipulated church/state issues and used it selectively when it furthered its own anti-Christian agenda.

It is the magical double standard that oozes from the ACLU that has troubled me and many others for years. One hand defends rights and the other seeks to take them away.

I can find a litany of double standard examples including their overt defense of terror suspects and criticism of techniques to monitor and or identify them. The ACLU also wants to eliminate any and all restrictions on immigration into the United States. They defend the rights of child pornographers. In fact, in June 2006, the ACLU filed a lawsuit against the City of Indianapolis because of a newly passed local ordinance that would fine convicted child molesters, predators, and rapists $600 if they were found within 1,000 feet of playgrounds, swimming pools, recreation centers, or sports fields when children were present. Way to look out for our children.

And so it goes with the litigious and controversial ACLU. They should be banished from any and all public funding. Whose civil liberties are they defending? Not mine!

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:05 PM
reply to post by jibeho

From Wikipedia:
So what Federal funds are those? Which Public money?
Strange, I belong to the ACLU and i pay dues and contribute!

The ACLU receives funding from a large number of sources. For example, in 2004, the ACLU and its affiliate, the American Civil Liberties Union Foundation reported revenues totaling $85,559,887. Of that total, 87% was from donations and dues from the public, 1.8% from program services, including awards of legal fees, royalty income, and literature sales, and the remainder from investment income and income from sale of assets. The distribution and amount of funding for state affiliates varies from state to state. For example, the ACLU of New Jersey reported $1.2 million in income to both the ACLU-NJ and its affiliated tax-exempt foundation in the 2005 fiscal year. Of that income, 46% came from contributions, 19% came from membership dues, 18% came from court awarded attorney fees, 12% came from grants, 4% came from investment income and the remainder from other sources. Its expenses in the same period were $800,000, of which 12% went to administration and management. Smaller affiliates with fewer resources, such as that in Nebraska, receive subsidies from the national ACLU.[25]

Just what are you going on about anyway?

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:33 PM
reply to post by OldDragger

ACLU receives money from a wide array of sources and they also receive federal funds to recover attorney fees that are incurred in Civil Rights Lawsuits.

In 1976, Congress passed the Civil Rights Attorneys Fee Awards Act, which was designed to encourage private lawyers to take on suits to protect civil and constitutional rights. The law states that judges can order federal and state governments to pay legal fees to private lawyers who sued the government and won.

This loophole law allows the ACLU to receive public funds.

The ACLU's Exploitation of the Civil Rights Attorney Fee Act

Barnes-Wallace v. BSA (2004), in which the ACLU sued a city for leasing land to the Boy Scouts because of the group’s stance against homosexual behavior. The ACLU received $950,000 of taxpayer money.

Just one example of many in which the ACLU receives taxpayer money.

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:38 PM
reply to post by OldDragger

Come on!
They recieve FEES for cases they win! Money they are legally entitled to.They also recieve nothing if they lose!
Are you even remotely familiar with the Courts and how they work?
All of your claims are really lame!
The reason the ACLU bugs you is that they will take on unpopular clients, that nobody else will handle.
Sorry, CIVIL RIGHTS APPLY TO EVERYONE, not just what YOU deem OK.
They file and argues cases on principle, they win some and lose some!

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:46 PM
reply to post by OldDragger

I thought you said that they didn't receive public funds. I simply and clearly pointed to the fact that they do receive public funds and that they have abused the system to do so.

The hypocrisy within the ACLU contradicts your statement. They pick and choose whose rights and principles to defend and whose rights to remove. This all nothing but "makework" for attorneys.

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:52 PM
reply to post by jibeho

Give me a break! Hairsplitting is a waste of time.
ANYONE that sues the government ( on whatever level) can be entitled to fees. Abuse my keester.
Why debate with you about this? You just don't want The Bill of Rights applied equally to every citizen. Simple as that.
Find something real to rant about!

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:54 PM
reply to post by OldDragger

HR 2679 was introduced in 2005 as an attempt to amend the Revised Statutes of the United States to prevent the use of the legal system in a manner that extorts money from State and local governments, and the Federal Government, and inhibits such governments' constitutional actions under the first, tenth, and fourteenth amendment

This bill passed the House but never made it through the Senate. It has been dead ever since. I'm not surprised.

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:59 PM
reply to post by OldDragger

Don't forget to pay your ACLU dues sucker. They will gladly squander your money and make you feel better about yourself in the process.

I will continue to call them out for what they really are.

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:04 PM
reply to post by mnemeth1

Keep in mind that all trial lawyers are democrats - all of them

No kidding!
That will come as a big shock to the guy I work with that's a big fundraiser and mucky muck for the California Republican Party!
Not to mention the guy that was HEAD of the Cal. Repub Party for umpteen years, friend of Reagan, Rockefeller, Nixon etc.
Oh, I almost forgot another long time lawyer that belong to the ACLU AND the NRA. seems he takes The Constitution very seriously.
Guess these guys ( and thousands more) missed the memo!
You guys crack me up!

[edit on 9-12-2009 by OldDragger]

[edit on 9-12-2009 by OldDragger]

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:14 PM
reply to post by jibeho

Your are my hero.

Everyone needs a hobby, if misinformation is yours, why bless you!

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:18 PM

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by jibeho

Your are my hero.

Everyone needs a hobby, if misinformation is yours, why bless you!


Facts are facts. The legal proceedings are all there in black and white. The hypocrisy is all there for those to see. You just have to remove the rose colored shades long enough to see it. Greed and progressive social engineering are the only motives behind the ACLU.

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