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Tasers!! Dangerous? Deadly? NO! And here is why...

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posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 06:07 AM
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Tasers!! Dangerous? Deadly? NO! And here is why...


blog.syracuse.com

The 50,000 volts create a spark that will transmit
electricity through 2 inches of clothing, but only
short pulses of 400 volts actually enter the body. By
shuffling feet on a carpet and touching a doorknob,
any person can discharge, and feel, 20,000 volts of
static electricity.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 06:07 AM
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Well here it is my friends, I finally have to put this out there for the masses to see. As many of you that responded to my last post know, I am a Military Police Officer in the Army. SO I see it fitting that I comment on this HOT topic.

Many People believe that Tasers are dangerous and should not be used by police. Well this spawns from two types of people, the dumb and the miss informed. Once again you have the American population buying into MSM and what their friends are saying. Lets set the record straight.

Ill start you out with my personal experience. I have undergone much training as a police officer while in the service. I can assure you of a couple things. Firstly, pepper spray HURTS LIKE HELL, BUT its also incredibly messy and will continue to burn the person that got sprayed at least 4 hours after they took the hit. If you have never been sprayed I would not suggest it. I have been and I can assure you it is not a pleasant experience. The main issue I have with pepper spray though is that when police officers are trained on how to use it properly they have to get sprayed, then maneuver through aprox 8 - 10 stations where they get attacked repeatedly. The issue I see with it is if an officer can fight through it then anyone can. Its a danger to officer safety, and if can be avoided should be.

Next I remember someone saying something about using a police night stick (aka PR-24 or ASP) instead of a Taser, lets explore this fatal option. My experience with the PR-24 started early on in my career when during one of my training classes for this weapon, one of the students got his hand broke by his partner during a drill. This is just one of many accidents that happened during the training but the most severe.
Now lets fast forward a little, I am now a certified instructor on proper use of this weapon in the field. I have trained many students on the proper use however I make sure to pay specific attention when I explain to them the dangers. There are specific areas that a person is considered safe to hit (thighs, abdomen, arms) and specific areas that a person is considered not safe to hit (neck, temple, groin, ribs, face). The areas that are safe to hit are considered green due to the fact it will cause the least amount of damage however can still break bones, and bruise. The areas that are not safe are considered red due to the fact it can cause permanent damage and or death. When you actually have to use this weapon in an altercation I can assure you your subject will not be standing still letting you aim for the green zones to strike. Thus making this a very dangerous weapon and should only be used to protect life. I always suggest to my students that they only use this weapon when the subject has a striking object also (bat, club, long blunt objects) or to break out windows.

Finally that brings us to the taser. Tasers are an excellent way to stop a situation BEFORE it becomes a danger to anyone. A Taser when activated will give pulses of 7-30 secs completely immobilizing a subject. Once the taser is deactivated it will not give any residual pain, unlike pepper spray or a night stick. Tasers will also NOT cause any lasting damage/death. I now reference the recorded FACTS.
Facts about Tasers
Are Tasers dangerous to persons with pacemakers? NO! Both the human heart and pacemakers are able to withstand the power of a defibrillator that emits 300 joules of energy. A Taser emits less than one Joule of energy. These devices have been used over 1 million times without causing a single death.

TASER® ECD has proven to significantly reduce injuries to suspects up to 79%.
Estimated 9000 lives saved.
City of Minneapolis, MN. 2005 statistics showed 326 events with use of force resulting in injuries 43.2% of the time. After TASER® of 154 events, 5.8% resulted in suspect injuries.
Cincinnati PD documented 56% reduction in work comp costs.
Cape Coral , Florida PD documented 93% reduction from 2002 to 2004

My main point being that even IF someone were to die from a taser strike the ones that DID NOT would out way that by so much its impractical to not use them. TASERS SAVE LIVES. Some officers may abuse the right to use the weapons at his or her disposal but we are not talking about corruption we are talking about the effects of the taser as a less than leathal weapon.
In the appropriate hands this is an effective means of subduing a subject that is a threat to themselves or others without any lasting effects or danger to the officer.

I beg people please stay on topic with this one. I can already see people commenting on polictics, bush, the war in Iraq, chem. Trails, and more. This post is about the safety of Tasers, NOTHING MORE!

Thanks for reading I look forward to seeing everyone’s point of view on this topic.


blog.syracuse.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


+2 more 
posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 06:19 AM
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You can't compare tasers to getting shocked by static electricity besides just that.. voltage.
Where the two strongly differ is how many *milliamps* travel through the human body. I don't have the exact numbers but I am absolutely positive tasers have many more mA (milliamps) of current that pulse through the body than simply rubbing your feet on carpet and getting a zap on the metal fridge.
Besides, you shock yourself from both sources and get back to us on which feels more harmful to you

As little as 12 volts can kill a person if there is enough amperage involved and little resistance to the persons heart. Put this simply, voltage does NOT matter, it's the current relative to the resistance of the persons skin tissue and heart.


[edit on 12/9/2009 by darklife]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 06:25 AM
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reply to post by darklife
 


The taser transfers 2.1 mili amps. It takes .1 mili amp to kill a human.

However will it? It all depends on the situation.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by ThePeoplesSoldier]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
reply to post by darklife
 


The taser transfers 2.1 mili amps. It takes .1 mili amp to kill a human.

However will it? It all depends on the situation.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by ThePeoplesSoldier]


Well that doesn't make much sense since 2.1 mA > .1mA == death going by your equation

Saying "However will it?" kind of refutes your whole post about how you find them to be that much safer than other weapons.
Either way we must face one fact that even the manufacturers of tasers admit "It's a less lethal weapon".
I don't see batons killing anyone if used properly by police.

[edit on 12/9/2009 by darklife]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
The taser transfers 2.1 mili amps. It takes .1 mili amp to kill a human.

However will it? It all depends on the situation.


Yes, it all depends on the situation, but I question the validity of 0.1 milliamperes (mA) being able to kill. Depending on whether we're talking AC or DC current, generally 60 to 70 mA is lethal.


+4 more 
posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 06:44 AM
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Yeah, real safe.....

'No excuse' for teen's Taser death, mother says

Family Seeks Justice In Taser Death

Report slams RCMP in airport Taser death

US Teenager Is Killed By Police Taser Gun

Taser death: stun gun fired 28 times

Taser death in troubled town

NYPD investigates two officers in Taser death of naked Brooklyn man


I could go on and on. There's overwhelming evidence that tasers are lethal, and are repeatedly misused by those that weild them.

They are supposed to be used in situation when a gun would usually be fired. If they were only used in these situations, to incapacitate and save an officer discharging their weapon, then yeah they would be safer.

However, the evidence shows that when you give the cops an alternative like this they become lazy. Now some cops aren't doing their job properly and tasers are being used when they just can't be bothered properly subduing someone.

It reminds me of that South Park episode - "It's coming right for us!" BANG!

They can just say they felt endangered and that's enough to allow them to fire it. If you join the police, you expect your life will be put in danger and you'll have to get your hands dirty every now again. The police have managed to handle these situations just fine before tasers where introduced.

If you call the police for help you expect them to resolve the situation. Not zap someone till they die, as has happened on many occasions.

US cops need to take a leaf out of the Strathclyde Police Force's book. They've had tasers for ages and they're hardly ever fired (only 3 times in one year), never used inappropriately and no one's died (yet). Glasgow cops don't mind a good scrap though and i think that's the difference.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by Nammu

They are supposed to be used in situation when a gun would usually be fired. If they were only used in these situations, to incapacitate and save an officer discharging their weapon, then yeah they would be safer.



One quick correction, its not trained to anyone that its only to be used in instances where a gun would be used. THAT DOSNT MAKE SENCE. It can also be used to stop somone from walking into traffic, stop somone from resisting, stop somone from running. All instances were a taser could be effective and not a gun.

Also I want to go ahead and say that any article anyone posts about somone being outraged that a taser was used will not be commented on. The public does not go through the training, does not know what these weapons are and are not used for, and will ALWAYS be outraged, even if you just give them a ticket.

Thank you for your input though always great to hear both sides of the argument!

[edit on 9-12-2009 by ThePeoplesSoldier]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
It can also be used to stop somone from walking into traffic, stop somone from resisting, stop somone from running. All instances were a taser could be effective and not a gun.


Sure it would be effective at stopping a person from doing those things. Heck it's useful to stop most any activity besides using a deadly weapon themselves on the cop.
However there needs to be a line drawn where a weapon like the taser is to be used instead of other more safe methods that would work just as well.

If you take what I quoted you above and replaced the words taser with lets say.. pepper spray, or a baton I could see it being just as effective. Sure the cop may have to work a little harder, but at least he wouldn't have to worry about killing the person he is trying to "help" like in all those stories we hear about.

Weapons should have a priority level assigned to them for cops. Priority one being their own safety aka using a gun with bullets. Tasers should be second on the priority level and thought of as a LESS LETHAL weapon to a deadly bullet, definitely not assigned to just trying to get control over a person who isn't really harming the cop physically.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by darklife
 


Its funny you actualy said that police departments train somthing called LEVELS OF FORCE. Now each department differs slightly so dont take this as written in stone but ours goes somthing like this.

Level 1 : Verbal Judo

Level 2 : Hand to Hand fighting

Level 3 : Pepper Spray/Taser

Level 4 : Batton, PR-24, ASP

Level 5 : K-9

Level 6 : Presitation of Deadly force

Level 7 : Use of deadly force

Each level can be obtained at anytime and does not require going through the previous levels before using. It all depends on the situation. If somone is shooting at me im not going to attempt to talk to them im going to shoot back.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by ThePeoplesSoldier]

[edit on 9-12-2009 by ThePeoplesSoldier]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier
 


If I remember correctly, 0.1 A is dangerous, not 0.1 mA, and 0.2 is deadly.

I think that the problem with Tasers (tm)
is that they are getting used in situations where what would be used would be a much less dangerous thing, like talking to the person.

The problem is not in the tool, it's in the way people use it, in the same way a gun can be misused by a trigger-happy person, only the Taser (tm) gives a bigger sense of security (or impunity) to the person using it.

But in September Taser International issued a bulletin where they say that the chest area should be avoided, just to avoid possible safety problems and "enhancing the ability to defend such cases in post event legal proceedings"

Source



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier
 



One quick correction, its not trained to anyone that its only to be used in instances where a gun would be used. THAT DOSNT MAKE SENCE. It can also be used to stop somone from walking into traffic, stop somone from resisting, stop somone from running. All instances were a taser could be effective and not a gun.


OK, then in that case they are definitely NOT safe. Using a semi-lethal weapon to stop someone from running/resisting rather than other non-lethal methods is not a good choice. Pepper spray doesn't kill, tackling the person to the ground and restraining them (you know, good ol' policing) doesn't kill and smacking their legs with a night stick doesn't kill.

Police are in the business of saving lives. So they should be using non-lethal options at all times rather than immediately resorting to a semi-lethal option as happens commonly now.

Or are you disputing that tasers are semi-lethal???

I'd also like to note that if used correctly and at appropriate times then sure, tasers are useful. However the point i'm trying to get across is that they are very commonly misused by police and when they are misused it can have fatal consequences. So they should not be used when less lethal options are available.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 07:33 AM
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reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier
 


It's the positioning that's the problem. They've got the taser listed BEFORE non-lethal alternatives! It should be:

Level 1 : Verbal Judo

Level 2 : Hand to Hand fighting

Level 3 : Pepper Spray

Level 4 : Batton, PR-24, ASP

Level 5 : K-9, TASER

Level 6 : Presitation of Deadly force

Level 7 : Use of deadly force

In fact, Taser could even go above K-9. You're more likely to die from a Taser than you are a well-trained police dog!

[edit on 9-12-2009 by Nammu]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 07:39 AM
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I am mearly trying to show that people consider that tasers are police abuse and this just is not the case. I fully agree with the fact that they CAN be missused. So can guns, so can fists for that matter.

The reasons police use them to stop somone from walking into traffic is because if you hit somone with a taser they drop straight down, no resistance. If you fight them in the "old fashion police way" then you both can fall into speeding traffic. Its mearly one tool of many that an officer CAN use.

I just want to show people that they are not as big of a threat as most persive them to be. One statistic I posted showed that out of 1,000,000 tests there were 0 deaths! I don't care how you cut it thats a extreamly good result.

As far as pepper spray goes, as i said its not an effective means of subdueing somone. Honistly I wish they would take it out all together. Its dangerous because once you spray somone they can still fight at 90% effectivness if they had the will power. Also its not effective agesnt people on narcotics such as Meth, which a taser dosnt distinguish or care.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by Nammu
 


K-9 are listed there because most people dont know that k-9s are EXTREAMLY dangerous. They are well trained I will give them that. However, they have shown that these dogs when they attack will somtimes eat part of there victim. I would take a short taser blast over that. Also a taser isnt NEARLY as likley to kill you than a pr-24 is. All it takes is that person to move a inch in the wrong direction when the officer swings that batton and it could be lights out, game over.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier
 


WHAT??

This is the biggest pile of rubbish.. Have you ever been tazed by a 50,000 volt tazer?

I have and there's no way rubbing my socks off a carpet will knock me pretty much unconscious, burn my skin and leave me disoriented for a few minutes.


Sometimes I really have to question the intelligence of the people who write these reports..



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier
 


WHAT??

This is the biggest pile of rubbish.. Have you ever been tazed by a 50,000 volt tazer?

I have and there's no way rubbing my socks off a carpet will knock me pretty much unconscious, burn my skin and leave me disoriented for a few minutes.


Sometimes I really have to question the intelligence of the people who write these reports..



Yes I have been tased to answer your question, and if you bothered to read the report you would see that its just an example of somthing simular. A taser focuses on the nervous system in repeated bursts. The reason you were left incompacitated is because thats how it is designed to work. The statistics dont lie, and if you don't like my research do some of your own before you call me un-educated.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 08:11 AM
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All Cops should be required to watch the first 2 seasons of Andy Griffith. Yeah Otis the Drunk is funny but that's not what I'm talking about....observe how Andy talks to criminals and handles situations...I don't think he even carried a gun!



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by Signals
 


Haha ya then there is reality were people will walk up to police in a coffee shop and murder 4 police officers that are relaxing before shift. Come on lets stay in the real world for a few moments shall we?



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
reply to post by Signals
 


Haha ya then there is reality were people will walk up to police in a coffee shop and murder 4 police officers that are relaxing before shift. Come on lets stay in the real world for a few moments shall we?


Just trying to prove a point....Police seem to have lost control somewhere...requiring that extra force, in your instance the Taser. How did it happen? Is it our society and what it's become? Is it Cops losing an ability to talk and reason with situations first? Is it a little of both?

And please don't tell me a Taser would have saved those Officers in the coffee shop....that guy came in with guns blazing.



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