Spectacular Phenomena In The Sky. What Is It?

Originally posted by fatdeeman
reply to post by Point of No Return

 

Do you think rockets fly in mishappen lumbering wig wag lines all over the sky?

They fly as straight as an arrow and even under a failure as long as it is spinning on it's axis then anything coming off it in a spiral will be smooth and consistent.

If the rocket was not taking a smooth path and was wobbling violently all over the place it would break up.

Very well put. I have said very similar things earlier and made the analogy of throwing a spiraling football with lit cigarettes attached in the middle of it. It would create a smoke spiral that expands out due to the vortices created by the football.

We keep rehashing the same stuff over and over. I know there is a lot of posts, but if you go back and read earlier posts you will see where a lot of this has been explained. I know you just want to jump in a discuss but there is a lot of evidence already given to support the rocket claim.

Not too much for the other theories

reply to post by fatdeeman


your avatar wears glasses... my eye sight is fine, im watching videos of this thing, i wasnt there. even if i was, im sure id see the same things, this wasnt an optical illusion... ur point is null and void.

Why is everyone confused about how it could create a perfect spiral?

If it's going straight, but spinning, one would think that's exactly what would happen. It's probably traveling at a very consistent speed, and spinning also at a set speed, and that would be the result.


Of course, I'd love to see this from another angle. It's odd to me at least, that it was only caught basically, head on (going the other way). From any other angle, you would see more of a funnel than anything else.

Originally posted by fatdeeman
reply to post by JimOberg

 

I wonder if the fact that it is deliberately spinning would create that effect under normal circumstances?

It's hard to tell from the videos if the spiral was long and gradually widened along the flight path or if it is close to the rocket/missile and quickly radiated outwards in a disc.

Maybe it failed and the spiral was an effect of the stage already spinning rather than the spinning being a post failure effect?

Thanks, fatdeeman, these are good questions -- a sure step towards answers. I'm sending out inquiries using this sensational video as the battering ram. Maybe this time we'll get answers, and since this discussion here has been remarkably and commendably constructive, we're all going to share in any new answers.

Look, it wouldn't matter what it was, everyone on here in intent on disagreeing with everyone and everything that comes up.
I could say "Black Is Black" and "White Is White" but someone will come along and tell me I'm wrong and someone will try and prove how much more intelligent they are and say that Black is, in fact, the Absence of light while white is the reflection of light. Someone wil then come along and say that balck is actually white and white is actually black. Someone will then come along and say "Can you provide a Source"? and then a Link will come up showing Black spiralling oiut of control spewing out white antimatter.

Anyhow, you get the picture. It's very hard to have a decent debate going here and it's a shame because we could all learn a lot more from each other if we could just settle down and stop trying to Argue with each other..

Some people can't even ask a Question without getting shot down in flames. How can anyone learn anything if they can't ask?

reply to post by Phage


That’s just it...we don’t know the failure mode and a lot of other stuff. How much fuel is used for the third stage? what % was left upon failure?

I assume that there would be fluctuations in spin because the rocket isn't a pinwheel. There is nothing in the middle of the whole mess to ensure that rocket would remain in a perfect sprial pattern.
As far as fluctuations in fuel. I was just thinking that perhaps the size of the bands contained in the sprial might have decreased in conjunction with fuel spent.

MSNBC just reported that it was a failed rocket but followed it by a story about cows being slaughtered in the mid-west.

It's plausible that it was a rocket that failed.

I'm more interested in the cow slaughterings in Colorado.

www.denverpost.com...

reply to post by Point of No Return


As Phage said...we do not know the failure mode.

For example..failed telemetry .

Every possible failure mode has not been encountered yet.

But the Russians are getting closer every day.

You are oversimplifying.

reply to post by Juston

The angular momentum created by spinning an object makes that object stable, not unstable. Think gyroscope, think bullet, think football.


[edit on 12/10/2009 by Phage]

China 2009 spiral wormhole:



Still photo taken from www.youtube.com...
at 1:57.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Juston

 

Why do you assume there would be fluctuations in the rate of flow or spin? We don't know the failure mode.


[edit on 12/10/2009 by Phage]

As I also pointed out and will again, the examples you posted have a fixed base, and multiple exhausts, they will always go round in a perfect circle and make a perfect spiral.

A rocket however is not fixed to one point and if it malfunctioned it could spin anywhere.

Surely you must see the difference.

reply to post by Phage


Gyroscope! Thanks Phage! I knoew I was missing something.

reply to post by Point of No Return

Incorrect.
Off axis thrust will produce a spin, not wild movement. The radius of the spin is dependent on the amount of deflection off axis.


[edit on 12/10/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Juston

 

The angular momentum creating by spinning an object makes that object stable, not unstable. Think gyroscope, think bullet, think football.

You must be joking, all of those examples spin around their own axes.

The object in Norway was not spinning around it's own axis, obviously.

just saw on yahoo that its confirmed to be a submarine rocket from Russia that failed in the third stage

news.yahoo.com...

still find it hard to believe though

Another still photo from the same Youtube video at 5:38:

Originally posted by fleabit
Why is everyone confused about how it could create a perfect spiral?

If it's going straight, but spinning, one would think that's exactly what would happen. It's probably traveling at a very consistent speed, and spinning also at a set speed, and that would be the result.


Of course, I'd love to see this from another angle. It's odd to me at least, that it was only caught basically, head on (going the other way). From any other angle, you would see more of a funnel than anything else.

The sad truth is that some people confuse wanting to believe with believing what they want.

That's why logic tends to get ignored.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by fatdeeman]

reply to post by Damian-007


I have to disagree with you on your point. I think there are a few that are so die hard on their belief that nothing will sway them, but for most it has been questions and answers.

I for one have learned a lot based off people pointing out flaws in my posts and made me go back and work harder to find filler for those holes.

At the same time I have learned a lot about other theories that, although I disagree with in this mater, that knowledge could lead to an insight on another topic or even this one if more evidence comes in to make me rethink the issue.

Now back to the fight DING DING

Originally posted by circasuicide
i agree that a failed/out of control rocket is the best logical explanation as of now. but i do not believe that.

if it was out of control:

1/how could it have caused a perfect spiral.

2/how could that spiral have maintained a stationary position for so long.

whatever it was seemed to stayed fixated and spiral perfectly for over a few minutes. and then it was gone. i'm not a believer in alien life, but i also am not a believer in the 'failed rocket' explanation.

my first reaction to seeing pictures/video was project blue beam. perhaps they were testing it in an abstract way just to see if people would except it as real, or quickly denounce it as a 'photoshop' picture/video. i'm undecided, but as of right now, i'm leaning towards project blue beam and not a failed rocket.

As I've written, I have substantial issues with the "failure caused the spiral" idea, but the reality of the rocket-associated spiral is no problem to me.

Motion -- The rocket was traveling almost directly AWAY from the observers, after being launched about 500 miles S-SE of the observers. The farther away it got, the smaller any residual angular rates of lateral motion. The geometry of the flight path relative to the observing site creates this visual effect.

This is why it's important to find any eyewitness reports from off to the side of the trajectory. We don't even know if the skies were clear there.

Stability -- The spiral was being continuously replenished, with fresh inner bands forming, and fading outer bands receding and diminishing in brightness as they expanded in space. The feed to the spiral bands seems to have cut off sharply -- an argument that it was not being fed by accident -- and the already-formed bands continued their radial motion and faded out, leaving the internal natural sky blackness to look just like a Hollywood 'black hole'.

I think your skepticism is rational and proper, but there are answers to SOME of your objections -- just not, as yet, ALL -- and I share some of those questions.

This has been a great exchange precisely because of contributions such as yours that voice opinions and then provide coherent reasons for those evaluations. Kudos all (well, ALMOST all!) around.

I'll be discussing this case on the NBC Nightly News tonight, y'all tune in.

reply to post by Point of No Return

I don't know about obviously (can't really judge that) but it doesn't have to spin around its own centerline to produce a nice spiral, just an axis.

[edit on 12/10/2009 by Phage]