Spectacular Phenomena In The Sky. What Is It?

reply to post by Hellmutt


Suppose we entertain the theory that EISCAT had something to do with a missile launch, these are some issues I have:

Why would Russia admit to a failure of rocket that they had already said was going to be launched that morning? To cover up EISCAT? Really?

Why wouldn't Norway or Sweden or whoever you're suggesting launched the rocket have claimed responsibility?

Why would they (Norway or Sweden or whoever) let all of these fanatical reports about it being Russia or a wormhole run rampant when they were the ones who launched it?

Shouldn't EISCAT or Norway or Sweden have to put out a warning before launching such a test rocket like any other country?, you know for safety reasons... Well why is there no evidence of such a warning?

If the launch was in fact just a rocket to carry water into the upper atmosphere "to see what happens", then why the coverup by Norway or Sweden or EISCAT or whatever, I mean really, what's the big deal?

[edit on 29-12-2009 by PhotonEffect]

reply to post by PhotonEffect


I didn't say that EISCAT had something to do with it. I said that if it was indeed a rocket, it must have been launched from Kiruna (or closer to Tromsø) and not from the White Sea.

Originally posted by Hellmutt

Originally posted by Chadwickus

Yes, the EISCAT radar.

Unrelated and separate from the VHF, UHF and heater arrays.

But placed at the same location? Perfect for launches from Kiruna.


Look at this map. Notice the distance from Tromsø to the White Sea.

Notice too in your map the location of Finnmark, an area where witnesses are said to have seen the spiral...

Not too far from the White Sea, but even closer to the Barents....

Is it possible that what everyone saw (the spiral) which was caused by a 3rd stage failure of some sort (consider this for a moment), happened over the Barrents Sea?

Most pictures of the plumes and spiral seem to be shot from the west looking east with the plume and spiral moving in a Northerly direction... so maybe by the time the rocket reached its 3rd stage it had already made it over the Barents Sea, in prime location, I think, to be seen by alot of northern Norway

[edit on 29-12-2009 by PhotonEffect]

Originally posted by Hellmutt
reply to post by PhotonEffect

 

I didn't say that EISCAT had something to do with it. I said that if it was indeed a rocket, it must have been launched from Kiruna (or closer to Tromsø) and not from the White Sea.

No. One of the photos was taken in Skjervoy and it has a mountain on it that is east of the town. Kiruna is in south.

[edit on 29/12/2009 by DGFenrir]

reply to post by Hellmutt


I believe you did my friend...

Originally posted by Hellmutt
reply to post by Chadwickus

 

Rockets are launched from Kiruna, Sweden. Some of these rockets release 20 gallons of water into the atmosphere "to see what happens". It could have been such rocket or similar. Look at the map. Kiruna is not that far away from Tromsø. The White Sea is far, far, far away.

NISSE

In the experiment water will be released at about 95 km altitude. The possible impact of the water to the upper atmosphere will be explored by using the powerful EISCAT radar system.

Oh, look. EISCAT...

But I suppose if it was EISCAT or NISSE, or what have you, we should be seeing an update on their website fairly soon, yes..

Originally posted by PhotonEffect

Why would Russia admit to a failure of rocket that they had already said was going to be launched that morning? To cover up EISCAT? Really?

The Russians did launch a rocket and it did fail (one of many failures). But what was seen in Tromsø might still have been something else.

Why wouldn't Norway or Sweden or whoever you're suggesting launched the rocket have claimed responsibility?

That's a good question. If it was a secret test of whatever it was (rocket or no rocket, EISCAT or not EISCAT), maybe they did it at the same time as the Russian test to deflect what really happened? "Oh...what was that? That was... eerh... a Russian rocket test". I don't know what it was or why they would keep it secret. If I was going to do some spectacular test that could be seen by the public and keep it secret, using an already announced Russian rocket launch to "blame", seems like a good idea to me.

Originally posted by DGFenrir

Kiruna is in south.

So is the White Sea. It's South East. What if a rocket was launched from Kiruna in an eastern direction?

Originally posted by PhotonEffect
reply to post by Hellmutt

 

I believe you did my friend...

Yeah, I said "Oh, look. EISCAT" because it was mentioned on the NISSE (Kiruna) page, and I've seen others mentioning the EISCAT in relation to the spiral. I've never claimed that the EISCAT created the spiral. In fact, I'm still holding a rocket theory open, but I think White Sea is too far away. I'm not saying that any EISCAT theory is right or wrong, but I didn't say it. Just because I mentioned EISCAT doesn't mean I support what others have said about EISCAT. Don't put words in my mouth

Originally posted by Hellmutt
If it was a secret test of whatever it was (rocket or no rocket, EISCAT or not EISCAT), maybe they did it at the same time as the Russian test to deflect what really happened? "Oh...what was that? That was... eerh... a Russian rocket test". I don't know what it was or why they would keep it secret. If I was going to do some spectacular test that could be seen by the public and keep it secret, using an already announced Russian rocket launch to "blame", seems like a good idea to me.

But here's the problem with that theory- mainly the one (and it's not just you who has mentioned this) that says the spiral was some sort of something that was shot into the atmosphere at the same time as Russia's rocket....

Take a look at the NAVTEX message before the launch by Russia:

ZCZC FA79
031230 UTC DEC 09
COASTAL WARNING ARKHANGELSK 94
SOUTHERN PART WHITE SEA
1.ROCKET LAUNCHING 2300 07 DEC TO 0600 08 DEC
09 DC 0200 TO 0900 10 DEC 0100 TO 0900
NAVIGATION PROHIBITED IN AREA
65-12.6N 036-37.0E 65-37.2N 036-26.0E
66-12.3N 037-19.0E 66-04.0N 037-47.0E
66-03.0N 038-38.0E 66-06.5N 038-55.0E
65-11.0N 037-28.0E 65-12.1N 036-49.5E
THEN COASTAL LINE 65-12.2N 036-47.6E
2. CANCEL THIS MESSAGE 101000 DEC=
NNNN

Emphasis mine-- notice that they don't give an exact time of the launch, but more of a 7 hour time window...

I guess I'd wonder then, how is it anyone else could know the exact time of launch by Russia given this info, so that a heat beam or HAARP experiment can be implemented to coincide with the launch itself?

Any ideas?

EDIT- to change bold to the 9th (from the 10th)

[edit on 29-12-2009 by PhotonEffect]

reply to post by Hellmutt


Ok, I must've taken that to mean something else. My fault.

Originally posted by Hellmutt

Originally posted by DGFenrir

Kiruna is in south.

So is the White Sea. It's South East. What if a rocket was launched from Kiruna in an eastern direction?

Nope. The direction of the mountain is about 80 degrees different from the direction of Kiruna.
If you draw a straight line on a globe from Skjervoy to the White Sea, the mountain'll be right between the two points.

www.panoramio.com...
www.dailymail.co.uk...
That same mountain.

Originally posted by PhotonEffect

how is it anyone else could know the exact time of launch by Russia given this info, so that a heat beam or HAARP experiment can be implemented to coincide with the launch itself?

Any ideas?

Maybe someone who could see the Russian launch, either a spy or some kind of listening device (maybe the Marjata/"Masha"/"Marjusha")? A phonecall is all that is needed: "They launched it just now". "Roger, copy".



edit to add:
Marjata

[edit on 29 Dec 2009 by Hellmutt]

Originally posted by Hellmutt

Originally posted by PhotonEffect

how is it anyone else could know the exact time of launch by Russia given this info, so that a heat beam or HAARP experiment can be implemented to coincide with the launch itself?

Any ideas?

Maybe someone who could see the Russian launch, either a spy or some kind of listening device (maybe the Marjata/"Masha"/"Marjusha")? A phonecall is all that is needed: "They launched it just now". "Roger, copy".

So a Norwegian or EISCAT spy in Russia....hmm


EDIT to add-

thanks for the info on the Marjata-

[edit on 29-12-2009 by PhotonEffect]

I seriously just don't know what to think anymore in regard to this event, I’m boggled. I cant buy the MSM story one bit thats for sure.

[edit on 29-12-2009 by TheKingsVillian]

reply to post by TheKingsVillian


But if the MSM said it was a ufo or natural phenomena or HAARP experiment, you'd probably believe them then right

[edit on 29-12-2009 by PhotonEffect]

It aint a missle thats for sure. And you've twisted what i've written to suit your own agenda. But my answer to your question is no.

reply to post by TheKingsVillian


Seriously dude- with all that agenda jazz,

My only agenda is to maybe learn about some interesting stuff and to find truth along the way... and perhaps shed light on some as well...

But people have been real quick to yell conspiracy here when the mundane doesn't fit their view-- so all the MSM from around globe, or at least the ones that reported on this event, must be in on it?... please

There's plenty of solid evidence showing rocket, or perhaps you can explain why that evidence should be cast aside

[edit on 29-12-2009 by PhotonEffect]

If your dead set on it being a missile, please explain to me how a Russian missile fly’s over a N.A.T.O country without any diplomatic repercussions?

Originally posted by TheKingsVillian
If your dead set on it being a missile, please explain to me how a Russian missile fly’s over a N.A.T.O country without any diplomatic repercussions?

It doesn't fly over a NATO country?
Who the hell is giving such posts any stars?
Shouldn't stars = quality?

reply to post by TheKingsVillian

Originally posted by TheKingsVillian
If your dead set on it being a missile, please explain to me how a Russian missile fly’s over a N.A.T.O country without any diplomatic repercussions?

I wouldn't say I'm dead set, case closed on this, however based on the evidence that demonstrates that this was most likely a missile, I'm going to go with that explanation over some of the other crazy theories that have been thrown at us with out any supporting evidence...


But to answer your question:

Firstly- AFAIK, we don't know what the exact trajectory or flight path of the rocket was, so to state that it flew over a NATO country is a mistake I think. This presumption has been made over and over again, but my argument here would be that just because it was seen from parts of Norway doesn't necessarily put it over Norwegian airspace. It could very well have been over the Barent's Sea when it was witnessed by the northern coastal areas of Norway...

The Russians have admitted that a failure occurred at some point during the 3rd stage, which from my understanding would put the rocket some 100 miles up into the atmosphere at that point...from that height I imagine it could be seen from far distances.

With all that said though, if you know what the actual flight path of the rocket was that morning, as per the Russians, then please supply it here. It would be of great help to this entire discussion...

Secondly- there was the NAVTEX message that was broadcast by the Russians (provided just a few posts up and about a thousand other times throughout these spiral threads,) before Dec 9th warning of rocket tests in the area of the White Sea for the day this event happened, and other days. One reason for this is so surrounding countries know ahead of time that the rocket test isn't actually an act of war. Couple that with the fact that Russia tests rockets from that area all the time and that could explain why no one is crying foul over this. It's a typical exercise that they've seen time and time again, no matter how atypical and dramatic the resulting spiral was...

[edit on 30-12-2009 by PhotonEffect]